GTP_WRS (GT5) Week 13 : An MR around AR on SS's

  • Thread starter EDK
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Thank you for the insight Carlos. Is the EPAS the same thing that is available in the wheel settings screen. Where you can turn Power Steering on or off?

Well that's another question entirely Red. What PD has done to create certain aspects of the game is often beyond me - see the first couple of pages from Stotty's post on ride heights etc. (tip: don't read too far into the post, once it was moved to the tuning forum, it went south IMO).

At a guess, and you'd have to try it to be certain, PD's version of Power Steering will either reduce the effects of FFB, increase the steering ratio (more lock for less wheel twirling), or hell, it might even help you stay on the dotted line!

I understand how real cars work, just not always PD's interpretation of 'real'...

EDK
The big issue with active steering is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to verify whether or not someone is using it. I could ban it from future events, but how would we determine whether or not it's being used?

...which is why F1 and MotoGP ended up accepting it. Now F1 has a common ECU so it's self policing.
 
EDK
The big issue with active steering is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to verify whether or not someone is using it.

I could ban it from future events, but how would we determine whether or not it's being used?

Even TCS and ASM have indicators on the "Dashboard" in the replay.

We've determined some methods of being able to determine use of SRF, and having the qualifier with SRF forced off, along with some events along the way that do the same, we have a good shot at policing that one. (Even without an indicator).

Well there you go. Sorry that I made those long posts EDK. If it can't be policed, I understand how it can't be disallowed. Sorry if you mentioned this somewhere else before.

Hopefully at some point in the near future, Pd will make the settings viewable in replays. At that point we can revisit this aid and whether it should be allowed or not.

Thank you for the reply EDK, and thank you again for all of these fun combos.

Rees

- see the first couple of pages from Stotty's post on ride heights etc. (tip: don't read too far into the post, once it was moved to the tuning forum, it went south IMO).

Yes, I did read many of the pages from this thread. Stotty's insights are awesome, and I actually asked him a few questions in that thread.

Unfortunately many of the threads in the tuning section turn into a puffing of chests. It was great to be able to talk about it here, before it went there:)

At a guess, and you'd have to try it to be certain, PD's version of Power Steering will either reduce the effects of FFB, increase the steering ratio (more lock for less wheel twirling), or hell, it might even help you stay on the dotted line!

LOL. I have found it to make the wheel a bit lighter when needing to make quick, corrective steering. But hard to tell what is really observed and what is placebo in this game. As it seems multiple people can have different experiences with the same settings.

I understand how real cars work, just not always PD's interpretation of 'real'...

Well, that puts you one ahead of me. I am clueless when it comes to knowing how a tweak on a real car would effect its handling. Of course, that is quite similar to my knowledge in game as well. So it seems quite "real" to me:dopey:
 
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Unfortunately many of the threads in the tuning section turn into a puffing of chests. It was great to be able to talk about it here, before it went there:)

Agreed - I've had my own issues there and don't visit the inmates anymore...

I don't think there's any need to apologise Red. We're actively encouraged to post settings, which is what started all this, and if there is a sensible discussion to be had around those settings then I'm all for it.

The whole topic has tended towards the negative a couple of times, but it's been worthwhile IMO regardless. As Kev has said though, it's impossible for the admin to police, so we continue as we are, which should be to use any or all of the aids allowed out of personal preference without vilification...

I have found it to make the wheel a bit lighter when needing to make quick, corrective steering

That's an attribute that would definately align to the real world. Most EPAS cars will go 'light' to aid parking for the old or infirm, or simply those not wanting to break a nail...
 
I don't care if people are using active steering or not, it's an option for everyone to select. My laps so far have been without it but I plan to give it a shot tomorrow. The thing I realize is, AS or not, the cream will rise to the top. The aliens will stay aliens and I will stay mid pack. I don't look down on it because it's allowed within the rules of the series and that is fine with me. Having sais that, I do think it would be good to ban it if there was a way to verify, but as Kevin said, there just isn't. The car is enjoyable to drive without it and I hope it stays that way with AS. I guess I'll see tomorrow.
 
Some new ones for me after playing around for a bit tonight.

28.132
34.290

I've changed to 7/3 Brake Bias, and I also set the Controller Steering Sensitivity to -2.

I tried some laps with Active Steering on, and it's just not for me. It made the car feel understeery and sluggish. I think it just makes corrrections before the car starts to slide, which would definitely make you faster.

I took to trying to correct ahead of time when I suspected the car might try to step out (In predictable areas, especially when touch rumbles on corner entry or exit).

I'm certainly still not the fastest on the board, but for my own enjoyment of this combo and what I intended it to be, I'll be running without the active steering.
 
Me too, Kevin. :cheers:

I think everyone racing the WRS this week should read or re-read the thread "GT5 Replay Deficiencies" by Kevin and Maz. There will never be a better time to make our voices heard. We are as loyal a customer as Sony can get, and we can help get these issues addressed faster by letting them see a legitimate set of concerns laid out in a clear, concise format.
👍👍 to Kevin and Maz for a top-notch document. :gtpflag:

Race On!
 
First laps with this one...frustrating to say the least.:crazy: Still trying to get a better handle on getting the weight to transfer where I need it, when I need it. Not much time for this one this week but I'm hoping to find time to get a few more laps in before the deadline.

T1: 27.837
T2: 33.931
 
I Have been thinking about this all day, what the WRS is about, the class of drivers, personally and on the track and I know for 100% active steering would NOT be allowed if we had a way to tell. I will therefore not use it anymore. I think if everyone that doesnt agree with it doesnt use it, very few, if any will use it. I assume everyone here has essentially proven they have not been cheating, I just dont know that anyone would use it if disallowed.
 
EDK
I think it just makes corrrections before the car starts to slide, which would definitely make you faster.


I'm certainly still not the fastest on the board, but for my own enjoyment of this combo and what I intended it to be, I'll be running without the active steering.

Same for me Kevin, although I'm using ABS 3 and brake bias 3/1 :scared: all others turned to off, makes for good fun. 👍

T1: 0'27.964
T2: 0'34.033


T1: 0'28.041
T2: 0'33.824

Phillip
 
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That's a great t1, lownsey29! 👍

Are you guys at the top of the board really using a DS3?
GTP_lownsey29
GTP_Insatiable
Or have you upgraded to a wheel and not changed the info?
If indeed you are on a DS3 :bowdown: I am impressed.
At least i know it can be done!

Cheers All !!!
 
ABS 1
BB 8/5
AS off

T1: 27.681
T2: 33.612

A little bit slower splits, but a lot more fun with the AS off. I think I will run AS off for most of the week... and then maybe at the end turn it on to grab that last little bit. Still undecided though. (and I am definitely not judging others because AS is well within our rules)
 
Some better splits.

28.019
33.850

I have seen a 27.8 in T1 a few times, so I know I have a little left still.:)
 
Never liked MR's much and especially not the Elises ... :)

30.283
35.435

But the track is great fun and so is the car - until the moment its tail decides to do something quite unexpected.
 
Just for anyone who might care, this is how I race... 100% of the time!...

Cockpit Cam
Grip reduction real
Damage heavy
ABS 1
All aids off


The only reason I use ABS on 1 is because there just isnt enough control in the DFGT pedals. The reason everything else is the way it is is down to personal preference. I get the feel from these settings that I am driving each car in the most realistic fashion possible. That is more important to me than extracting every mollusk of unnatural time from my laps.

I drive for fun and to challenge myself. I couldn't care less about winning. If it happens its just a nice bonus 👍


I say let it lye. Theres no need to feel cheated, as those who use aids ultimately feel they've cheated themselves. Atleast personaly thats how I would feel.


However at the end of the day its just a game. Everyone is entitled to play their own way. There are rules in this game, and they are there for anyone to exploit if they wish to.

Its not a certain few who are taking an advantage, its the rest of us who are putting ourselves at a disadvantage! But thats a choice I or any of you have chosen to live with 👍
 
Wow some quick times on the board! I had a first go at it today, but I think I'm going to need a few more tries to figure out this car and track. :)

T1: 28.262
T2: 34.367
 
First splits for the evening using ABS2 and 7/3 brake bias. Have played around with TCS and I prefer it without, but once I've sorted my lines I'll give it another go.

28.256
33.844

Still got some way to catch lownsey - not sure where I'm going to find 0.5 in T1, but I'll keep looking. :cheers:
 
pyxen
How about MotoGP racing now ? That's getting pretty lame that all they do is rely on TCS and keep the throttle pinned..there's barely (relatively speaking) skill involved anymore!
That's a bit unfair dude, if it were that easy then there should be no more high-sides (like simoncelli last week), but they still happen all the time. TCS or not it definately takes some skill to deliver 240bhp to a contact patch the size of a dime, not just "pinning it".

pyxen
These guys would be buried on the bikes of yesteryear..

Ummm, Rossi,Capirossi,Biaggi,Gibernau to name a few did ride 500's unless you're talking bary sheene vintage? They are not lame in my books considering Rossi won the 2000 championship and Capirossi won the GP at eastern creek here in '96 which I was lucky enough to see beating the likes of Doohan,Criville and Checa.

Please don't think i'm having an attck on you, the same skills still apply with regard to smooth braking and throttle application.

Active Steering on a bike, absolutely, it's called a steering damper, mechanical or not it's still an aid. Commonplace on just about any Honda using the HECS system are ECU contolled.

Until PD get their act together there is just no reasonable way to police it. If the rules changed to say no AS then fine, I'll turn it off. I don't quite understand why they can't do this, it seems to be available in the (former) online replays, surely it's just the same subroutine they can call? Give me the code PD and i'll fix it for you :)

Anyway, gave the AS on strong a try again and it did make a minor improvement in T1, still cannot get into the 27's . T2 still the same , finding that sector very easy for some reason unknown to me, just love that last corner 👍. Already seeing 33.49x there, now just need to sort out T1 :ouch:

28.213
33.594

I've found the setting that seems to be the most effect is the Brake Balance. Used AS Strong , TCS 2, ABS 4 and BB 7/0, just feels a pleasure to drive with this Brake Balance.
 

Great splits Red! 👍 And I know you've already got a 33.5xx T2 in you... looks like I'm going to be chasing you again for the rest of the week. :crazy:

A word or three on aids....

In short, a car is always going to be faster with all aids off since all an aid does is stop you doing something you want to do. Either applying the brakes to keep the car stable (ASM), or removing drive to stop you spinning the wheels (TCS), or removing braking force to stop you locking up (ABS), or damping your steering inputs to compensate for over-correction or sudden jerky or erratic movement (AS).

These aids exist in GT not to give an unfair advantage but to simply allow those with either less experience or skill or confidence to drive the cars and race them without constantly spinning off or crashing. So inevitably, when the required level of skill is reached, one becomes faster without requiring the restrictive aids. I simply can't stand to drive a car with TCS or ASM - its like driving through glue and the car just refuses to do what I want it to.

I do use ABS and often quite a high setting... lack of braking feedback is something I have always struggled with in GT and is probably the biggest limiting factor to me getting any faster. If you've ever tried driving without ABS though, the car stops alot quicker if you manage it without locking up - so to drive successfully without ABS, you're are going to be significantly faster.

Active steering, which seems to have stirred up a bit of a debate here, is nothing more than a steering damper that basically smoothes out erratic steering inputs and applies a small ammount of opposing steering force if you start to oversteer. In essence is deadens your steering input so if you are normally a smooth and precise steerer, it will remove some of that precision and make the car feel less edgy and thus slow you down slightly. If you are someone who is quite erratic and prone to over exagerated steering inputs, AS will kick in to smooth it for you and thus you will more than likely get a bit faster. In the case of a car like the Elise, AS makes it feel less exciting but the quickest guys will still be those who are very precise with their steering inputs as well as deft with the pedals, whether or not AS is switched on.

In my case I've found that AS makes the Elise feel a bit more centered through the switchback section of T1 so you're less likely to throw the car into oversteer but if you're precise enough with entry speed, hold the throttle and thread the needle smoothly enough, it makes no difference in sector time. I am not Ramone however and maybe when you're going that fast AS makes more difference to stability. Ramone is not exactly a smooth steerer though - he takes the car by the scruff of the neck and hurls it about wherever he likes. A rare skill most of us can only wonder at.

Edit - Another point that may be worth noting. I have a Fanatec GT3 wheel which has the facility to adjust several settings independantly of GT - steering angle, FFB, dead zone, linearity, centering spring, steering damper force, ABS vibration, and shock response. Am I cheating or lame if I use any of these features to tune my wheel to my liking? The Fanatec damping adjustment basically does the same thing as the AS in GT. Individual steering wheel settings are beyond the scope of WRS rules obviously, so allowing aids other than SRF does seem the most reasonable situation to me.
 
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Nice drop in times Carlos 👍

Thanks Bos - found a little more at T1 but progressively lost some of the gain throught T2 and T3... Still faster at the line though 👍

28.084
33.904

I have seen T1 drop into the 27's but then spooked myself going into the first hairpin in T2 as a consequence!!!

I think I'm only moving my wheel an inch either side of centre for the entire lap :crazy:
 
I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.
Managed 2secs off at the line so far.
T1: 29.853
T2: 35.460
Cheers All !!!
 
Dang, just a wee bit off 1 and 2 and lost .1 on 3!

Time to change vehicle colors from Old English White. :)

T1: 28.927
T2: 34.722
 
T1: 28.655
T2: 34.857


Took some more off T1, lost a wee bit on T2, but got my best on T3.

At this point, I think I'm in love [but I can be fickle] with Racing Green Metallic! :drool:

:cheers:, Chris!


EDIT: Damn, just looked at the boards. :grumpy:

I can't get away from Gravitron; he must have a chain hooked to my bumper!!! :lol:

-
 
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