GTPFIA GT1/GT2 World Cup S2 Congrats to our champions Shrugging_AtlasGT1/TissimoGT2!!

[Sephy]

Well I just watched some 2011 Le Mans highlights and not only wasn't anyone going wide at the Porsche curves exit but the pavement beyond the rumblestrip was painted GREEN clearly indicating it was considered off-track territory.

Well I watched all 17 hours of Speed coverage and can tell you it happened a lot. Again I tried not to do it because I don't know what this series considers cutting and because normally it makes you lose a little time. Worn tires had me there a couple of times though. I know usually making the track shorter is cutting (unacceptable) and making the track longer is fine (watch a F1 race when they come out of Ascari at Monza lol).

However once again I tried not to go over there and in my series we run the same way. For the sake of being simple our rules are two wheels on the tarmac/between the lines at all times.

 

[toyotsupra]

Well I just watched some 2011 Le Mans highlights and not only wasn't anyone going wide at the Porsche curves exit but the pavement beyond the rumblestrip was painted GREEN clearly indicating it was considered off-track territory. Notice how everyone is keeping 2 wheels on or inside the rumblestrip.

Scroll to 3:45
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXgQAqcX2Bk">YouTube Link</a>

Scroll to 0:51
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxIUDgO6WFw">YouTube Link</a>

That's how you proper race awsome stuff.

 

[MitchZ06]

Going wide out of the Porsche Curves occurs more than it does in a bleeding highlights video.....Having watched all 24 hours of the race this year and years past lots and lots of drivers go wide out of that exit.

 

[Jav]

Guys comparing how the stewards judge a 24 hr race in regards to track limits to a 1hr race is just stupid, it is 24hrs of racing mental and physical fatigue play a huge part on how leniant the stewards are in a 24hr race it is expected to happen, if a trend of abuse develops they will sure hold the drivers in the pits for a while till he cools down.(off course there are politics going on behind closed doors that you will not hear about)
However on a 1hr race the stewards are way more tight about the issue if you do it more than twice you're getting a penalty. Here you get 4 freebies, so you can expect penalties to be handed out.

 

[Peter.]

But the thing is, it's not considered illegal in real life, as far as we know.

I honestly think you should let this one go, because it's unknown whether or not an advantage was gained there, almost all drivers went wide there at least once, and most several times, and in real life it's not considered illegal.

 

[Jav]

But the thing is, it's not considered illegal in real life, as far as we know.

I honestly think you should let this one go, because it's unknown whether or not an advantage was gained there, almost all drivers went wide there at least once, and most several times, and in real life it's not considered illegal.

But we know it is considered illegal in real life, actually it depends on a combination of sanctioning body, track, series and track conditions. Some races you'll see a part of the track being used legally and the next day that same part will be considered off limits. If you need to talk to a real life SCCA official and race director to believe this you just did.

Javier O. Torres race director PRRRA 2005-06 SCCA Guayacan Chapter 2007-07.

 

[MitchZ06]

You're the series host anyway so it's up to your discretion. However, you say they let them off because it's a 24 hr race, what say you about the Vita4One Ferrari being black flagged and then pulled from the race in the recent Spa 24 Hours? You'd think the officials would be lenient on the team as they were informed the radio was dead on the car but no, they got DQ'd...

 

[Jav]

Like I said before, the stewards judgement will vary from race to race. For the Spa24 we are talking about much smaller budgets and the political pull of the big teams is not there. I'm pretty sure they had their reasons for assesing the penalties the way they did, the broadcasting team doesn't always have the correct information or story behind the situations.

 

[Sephy]

Once again this is why in my series two wheels on the tarmac/between the lines at all times. Helps confusion and it's what I do in any online race I take part in.

 

[MitchZ06]

I was thinking before a 'preview' video of say a lap or two showing acceptable lines and where is out of bounds would be handy.

 

[jakegirard]

I was thinking before a 'preview' video of say a lap or two showing acceptable lines and where is out of bounds would be handy.

my understanding of the rules was 2 tires on the track at all times is the rule of thumb. But, I also think it seems to be reasonable that if you go slightly over that unintentionally due to worn tires or pushing too hard, you'll be ok as long as you don't use it to advance position or to gain time.

Penalties for deliberate abuse are necessary. Penalties for sliding a little bit off on exit and filing right back in without gaining time would seem silly.

JMO.

 

[OwensRacing]

I was thinking before a 'preview' video of say a lap or two showing acceptable lines and where is out of bounds would be handy.

I will do this tomorrow! Slow mo and full speed examples.


You actually are onto a dang good idea. Have a series of videos per track showing problem areas and what is accepted and what is not accepted.


Jav, didn't know you was that involved with SCCA. Very cool stuff. Makes a lot of sense, you seemed to be experienced running a series.

 

[Jav]

Yup, I was. First it was PRRRA and we worked very hard to turn our club into the Guayacan region of the SCCA(Caribean region) but unfourtunately the timing wasn't the best for this transition(right at the start of this depression and some other stuff that won't be discussed publicly) after all the hard work the region and road racing died off for us.

I don't think I've shared this with you guys, this used to be a tradition after every trackday/time trial event before we became SCCA. Was a 15-20 minute race for the instructors and the more experienced drivers(this would never fly under the SCCA flag!)
I'm in the black Civic(class F in that moment) and it was filmed by a fellow instructor/official from his CRX wich was classed one class above mine(class E).

 

[Blaze_409]

For the record the reason the cars go wide in real life the times that they did was because of either GT cars getting out of the way of a prototype car or a prototype trying to get around a gt car. Also Audi was warned when lotterer made the pass on the peugeot using the outside of that exit of the porsche curves....So actually it is a cut and penalizable. Atlas:tup:


the officials werent happy with this move. The cars never went wide by themselves. it was always to avoid other cars.

in addition the exit of tertre rouge gives a top end boost, and the exit of porsche curves also gives a speed boost. you dont get there "by accident". if you actually drive and use that part of the road as your racing line their is a speed advantage.

We don't particularly like to see one of our members (whomever they are) hung drawn and quartered

lmao. funniest thing ive heard in while.

 

[ultrap13]

I was just watching more videos and they confirm what Blaze says. Prototypes did it to pass GT2 cars. Warnings for "exceeding track limits" were quickly issued in all other cases even for a single violation. Areas outside the rumblestrip are beyond track limits period. Any claims to the contrary are nothing but excuses.

Also, definition of "deliberate": When someone who has an understanding that 2 tires need to remain on track at all times proceeds to violate the rule 19 times in 17 laps repeatedly in the same areas.

3 GT1 drivers managed to stay within track limits out of the Porsche curves 100% of the time.

 

[ultrap13]

The cars never went wide by themselves. it was always to avoid other cars.

Touché 👍

in addition the exit of tertre rouge gives a top end boost, and the exit of porsche curves also gives a speed boost. you dont get there "by accident". if you actually drive and use that part of the road as your racing line their is a speed advantage.

A big speed advantage at that. It's cornering 101. Outside enter-->Apex-->Outside exit. Widen your corner exit, line flattens and you get a nice speed boost. Clear as day.

 

[luckylefty2gunz]

look it is plain and simple the rules clearly state two wheels on the track at all times. it don't get any clearer then that. if you are issued a penalty deal with it and move on

 

[ultrap13]

Moving on to Nurb GP/F... here is WHAT NOT TO DO. These pictures are from last season's GT300 championship, the driver was heavily penalized for exceeding track limits. Admitted his error, took the penalty without a single complaint and went on to win the next race.

Corner #1 BAD - 2 wheels must stay inside the white line

Corner #2 BAD - 2 wheels must stay on or inside rumble strip

Corner #4 BAD - 2 wheels must stay on or inside rumble strip...where the rumble strip ends, 2 wheels must stay on the inside of the white line

 

[MitchZ06]

No doubt corner 4 will be abused...

 

[tissimo]

Corner 2 and 4 are going to be abused, a lot. Its very easy to go wide when pushing especially on low tires. Though, IMO it doesnt really effect your time much.. .5s per lap, IF that.

I asked 2-3 times in the quali about track bounds (mainly on the mulsanne straight chicanes) and didn't see a response. I personally consider 2 tires OVER the rumble strips out of bounds. 'Cutting' those chicanes straightening the line out decreases lap time a good amount (1-2 seconds). IIRC your car can be on the edge of the kitty litter and still have 2 tires on the rumble strips. Not to say I didn't have a few 'out of bounds' lines through a few corners when I was pushing.

For example, these are all considered LEGAL with 2 tires on the track (rumble strips included in the track)...... (2005 version of Le Sarthe)

Very close, probably wouldn't be called

Questionable, but probably wouldn't be penalized I would think?

again very close, probably wouldn't be called

16: Offline Racing:
B:
Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.

 

[ultrap13]

Corner 2 and 4 are going to be abused, a lot. Its very easy to go wide when pushing especially on low tires. Though, IMO it doesnt really effect your time much.. .5s per lap, IF that.

First of all going wide even slightly during qualifying invalidates the lap and the driver should abort that lap.

In the race going slightly wide once can happen to anyone. The point is corner entry/exit speed must be adjusted so that it doesn't happen repeatedly. Going wide repeatedly is exceeding track limits and subject to penalization.

The 3 pictures above labeled "close" are technically off-track. Using those lines repeatedly is unacceptable IMO.

 

[Magzire]

Remember what I said last season. There should be 2 tires on tarmac all times. Not two tires on rumble strips and other two off track. Now people try find the edge and sometimes miss causing so much unnecessary arguments.

Would of saved so much hassle, but you guys insisted

 

[Magzire]

In tissmo second picture thats allowed which is bs and i always thought it was. Said this last season and i got shot down quick.

 

[tissimo]

I tried to get verification before the start of the race, but either didn't see Jav's response our wasn't seen by Jav. I don't drive like this, but with no guidance and referring to the OLR, in my interpretation is legal.

First of all going wide even slightly during qualifying invalidates the lap and the driver should abort that lap.

In the race going slightly wide once can happen to anyone. The point is corner entry/exit speed must be adjusted so that it doesn't happen repeatedly. Going wide repeatedly is exceeding track limits and subject to penalization.

The 3 pictures above labeled "close" are technically off-track. Using those lines repeatedly is unacceptable IMO.

Yeah, they're illegal, but if you run on the rubble strip most of the time and occasionally go over once or twice, most likely won't be caught, or even if so, not get penalized.

 

[Blaze_409]

Integrity > Speed

 

[OwensRacing]

integrity > speed

. Agreed.

Edit:
Had put x2, think that the x2 maybe a UAP breech.

 

[hon1987]

My god watching the replay sucks. The pace lap was 10 minutes!

 

[tissimo]

Integrity > Speed

What do you mean? Working with the regulations to gain the most performance out of your car is nothing different. You could say that adding a turbo you your race car to increase your hp power band is the same thing. So you would lack integrity because you're trying to gain the most out of the rules given. Everyone else is playing by the same rules.... Legal is legal....

 

[Blaze_409]

What do you mean? Working with the regulations to gain the most performance out of your car is nothing different. You could say that adding a turbo you your race car to increase your hp power band is the same thing. So you would lack integrity because you're trying to gain the most out of the rules given. Everyone else is playing by the same rules.... Legal is legal....

track boundaries and car performance are two different animals. Theyre are no restrictions on what you can do to the car as long as you dont exceed the hp and weight limits.

Staying on the track on the other hand is a matter of integrity. in addition integrity is not something that Jav can govern. Integrity comes from within oneself. if you want it, its there to take. If you don't oh well..youll have to be hanged drawn and quartered lololol

 

[OwensRacing]

What do you mean? Working with the regulations to gain the most performance out of your car is nothing different. You could say that adding a turbo you your race car to increase your hp power band is the same thing. So you would lack integrity because you're trying to gain the most out of the rules given. Everyone else is playing by the same rules.... Legal is legal....

Tissimo. I think you took his post wrong. I assumed he meant trying to be clean and going slower is better then disregard and going faster.

Defiantly don't think it was geared as negative towards you.

There are several in this league we don't need watch. You are one of those that I would consider a class act and race with integrity.