Guns

[Famine]

So you can buy one?

Yep. If I were so inclined.

Guns are not drugs. You can by drugs, no problems, try to buy guns now on streets.

Drugs are illegal in most places. You can still buy them in most places - I was offered heroin as I was walking near Charing Cross station in London, and last I checked heroin is illegal in the UK.

Guns are illegal* in the UK. Yet you can buy one in Manchester or Liverpool for £50.

And we're in a country you say it's impossible to get a gun in because they're illegal and it's an island with Customs officials in all points of entry.

A country you say shouldn't have any guns in it any more because it's been 11 years since they were banned and the "old guns" should be "out of rotation", yet where gun crime has risen 100% since guns were banned.


Yet again, reality not only doesn't back you up, but actually refutes your points.

*The legislation isn't quite that straightforward. Most types of guns are banned, however some remain providing you have a licence for one - and getting a licence is not easy. However, you are limited to certain types of shotgun, if you can prove that your job might require one. Air-powered weapons are still legal and don't require a licence, but again there is a set of rules about who may use them, how and where.

 

[Keef]

Air-powered weapons are still legal and don't require a licence, but again there is a set of rules about who may use them, how and where.

Interesting. Recently I used my air pistol to kill a raccoon that had been pestering people at my cousin's apartment complex, and just generally creating problems. Not that I was proud of course, because I'm an animal lover, but the problems were serious enough to warrant it. Besides, I'm a human, and every now and then we humans just have to kill something.

 

[Eric.]

Interesting. Recently I used my air pistol to kill a raccoon that had been pestering people at my cousin's apartment complex, and just generally creating problems. Not that I was proud of course, because I'm an animal lover, but the problems were serious enough to warrant it. Besides, I'm a human, and every now and then we humans just have to kill something.

That's a hell of an air pistol there, Keef...Aren't raccoons fairly tough to kill?

You at least made one of these, right?

 

[Solid Lifters]

That's a hell of an air pistol there, Keef...Aren't raccoons fairly tough to kill?

Did you know you can hunt medium size (deer, boar, rams, coyote, etc) with an air rifle? I shoot small to medium size varmints all the time with one.

It's nice to know you can at least own this in the UK...

http://www.talontunes.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/assortedpics1130.jpg

 

[Keef]

That's a hell of an air pistol there, Keef...Aren't raccoons fairly tough to kill?

480 fps did the trick. They're skulls are thin to a steady hand. Not as thin as a duck though...

EDIT: A friend of mine has a hunting air rifle, with a scope and all that jazz. 1100 fps. That's faster than most pistol bullets.

 

[Duke]

If that raccoon was actually approaching people closely enough to directly pester them (as opposed to just dumping their garbage cans), it was very probably rabid.

 

[Jay]

480 fps did the trick. They're skulls are thin to a steady hand. Not as thin as a duck though...

Was that a C02 ait pistol? I had a C02 air pistol (Berreta 92 clone) that had a similar muzzle velocity.

 

[FoolKiller]

If that raccoon was actually approaching people closely enough to directly pester them (as opposed to just dumping their garbage cans), it was very probably rabid.

Or dumb. The ones around me aren't as bad as the opossums (they just stare at me like an idiot), but I do have to scare them (like walking outside when they didn't see me coming) or make an aggressive move toward them to run them off. I once had seven come up on to my deck in one night, stop and look at me, sniff around and then walk off. They even ate cat food while my cat was there.

 

[Eric.]

480 fps did the trick. They're skulls are thin to a steady hand. Not as thin as a duck though...

EDIT: A friend of mine has a hunting air rifle, with a scope and all that jazz. 1100 fps. That's faster than most pistol bullets.

Haha, yeah. I shoot 1260fps Federals out of my .22 rifle, and those are considered high velocity rounds.

 

[LSX]

Ever try the 32Gr 1640FPS CCI Stinger .22LR? Use them with a 10/22 and they are very very accurate, never had one missfeed or missfire. Best rimfire ammo I've ever used hands down.

My Gamo Hunter air rifle gets 1200fps with the .177 5gr PBA ammo, just so light it's pretty inaccurate, the gun likes heavier pellets, still running about 950-1000Fps, though I've never used a chronograph for it. The new Gamo Hunter .22 it supposed to get over 1000Fps, I'd really like to give that a try haha, I saw they were advertising it for feral pig control I don't know how humane that would be compared with a slug.

 

[Joel]

Meh, i got a POS Wal-Mart .22 Pellet gun. 495 FPS, and a scope on it, and it's ai'ght. Fits the bill for Squirrels and paper targets.

 

[LSX]

And those pesky beer cans right?

 

[Joel]

And those pesky beer cans right?

Yep! And bottles too. Those .177's just dent em, but the .22 and they just smash into a million pieces.

 

[Omnis]

Did you know you can hunt medium size (deer, boar, rams, coyote, etc) with an air rifle? I shoot small to medium size varmints all the time with one.

Yeah, I obliterated a banana heart with a pump-charge pellet gun.

 

[LSX]

There are even .50 Caliber air rifles, dunno about back yard friendly haha.

 

[Eric.]

Ever try the 32Gr 1640FPS CCI Stinger .22LR? Use them with a 10/22 and they are very very accurate, never had one missfeed or missfire. Best rimfire ammo I've ever used hands down.

My Gamo Hunter air rifle gets 1200fps with the .177 5gr PBA ammo, just so light it's pretty inaccurate, the gun likes heavier pellets, still running about 950-1000Fps, though I've never used a chronograph for it. The new Gamo Hunter .22 it supposed to get over 1000Fps, I'd really like to give that a try haha, I saw they were advertising it for feral pig control I don't know how humane that would be compared with a slug.

Actually I've heard not to use Stingers in a GSG-5, and they aren't doing your 10/22 any good either. They are slightly longer than a regular .22LR and get pushed into the rifling of the barrel, and can damage that. In fact there is a company making (or developing) a barrel for the 10/22 that is intended for use with Stingers to avoid that.

I shoot Federal .22LR HV hollowpoints. 375 of them for $12 at Walmart. Just using the stock sights I was able to hit 15/24 rounds on a 8x11 printed target at 100yds. I was impressed to hit anything given that the front sight actually covers up the whole target at that range...

Now I've got my RDS on so I have to go get that adjusted to be accurate again...Should be much better with a small red dot. I have pictures from the range, I'll post them here in a few days.

Edit: And out of the entire box of Federals I had three failures. One failure to fire in the chamber, two that misfed (and the breach chopped the **** out of them ) The GSG-5 is reported very picky with ammo brands, and from all I've read, having that few failures is excellent.

 

[Keef]

three failures

Makes me wonder how often military rounds fail. Because if those guns ever jam it could cause a serious problem.

 

[LSX]

Actually I've heard not to use Stingers in a GSG-5, and they aren't doing your 10/22 any good either. They are slightly longer than a regular .22LR and get pushed into the rifling of the barrel, and can damage that. In fact there is a company making (or developing) a barrel for the 10/22 that is intended for use with Stingers to avoid that.

I shoot Federal .22LR HV hollowpoints. 375 of them for $12 at Walmart. Just using the stock sights I was able to hit 15/24 rounds on a 8x11 printed target at 100yds. I was impressed to hit anything given that the front sight actually covers up the whole target at that range...

Wow, thanks for that, I had not heard a thing about it! They are a bit pricey anyhow. Though I really do like them a lot. I had read that to supplement the lengthening of the case, CCI shortened the projectile, which is why it's so light compared to other HP rounds. I guess it's an excuse for me to try the CCI Velocitor 40Gr HP rounds, still @ 1430FPS. But those Federals your talking about are cheaper, perhaps I'll check them out as well.

Three failures is not bad really, when I used to get Remington bulk packs it was much higher haha. The Stingers were just the first round which gave me zero failures. Do you know which company is developing that barrel for the 10/22? Is it Volquartsen? I'd really like one of their barrels. I just can't justify paying more for a barrel than I did for the rifle.

EDIT: Nevermind, answered my own questions. Volquartsen will void your warranty for using stingers, apparently it's an even worse problem with match chambers because it will not only pre-engrave the projectile, but the casing as well which is why it damages the chamber. Stingers don't seem very hot at all of a sudden... I guess I'd be better of with standard velocity match ammo. I just never had the grouping problems everyone else seems to have with them, but then I've only fired them out of a standard 10/22. Who knows, I've got lot's of research now, thanks for the heads up Eric.

By the way, how is that GSG-5, they look really cool, are the magazines hard to get, or expensive rather? Those things are so much cooler than one of those "Krinker Plinkers".

 

[Eric.]

I love my GSG-5. Its my first gun so I don't have anything to compare it with, but it performs exactly how I want. A little pricey, but it seems made well. Mags aren't hard to find, www.impactguns.com, www.rrages.com, and of course www.gunbroker.com are easy places to find them. They run about $25-40 for GSG ones, the dealer I ordered mine through sells them at $24.97. Pro-mag also makes some for it, though I haven't decided to try any of them yet. I've heard their magazines for other guns (specifically ARs I think) are complete junk, yet the person running www.rrages.com (which is GSG-5 and 10/22 specific) swears that the ones for the GSG-5 work perfectly.

I just know I need to get at least two more. Reloading sucks.

My GSG-5 is the titanium colored SD model, by the way. Looks identical to a real MP5SD with the fat foregrip and more realistically sized dummy silencer. It just needs the retractable stock, which I'm planning to get before too long.

This is where I saw about the Stingers being bad - http://22tactical.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1069 . You may find that site useful, there's a small 10/22 section.

Edit: And I just checked rrages.com to see if they had anything new. Here's your barrel. http://rrages.com/1022/barrel/stinger/index.htm

Makes me wonder how often military rounds fail. Because if those guns ever jam it could cause a serious problem.

I'm sure military spec 5.56 NATO rounds are built to a standard that surpasses anything we can buy for a decent price. And despite what we do in FPS games, I doubt many soldiers are going through ammo at any similar rate.

 

[otago]

Because if those guns ever jam it could cause a serious problem.

Very serious. Around 3 seconds to clear the jam

 

[Solid Lifters]

Very serious. Around 3 seconds to clear the jam

Uh, no.

 

[LSX]

Hey Eric. thanks for those web sites, that 10/22 barrel is awesome, I was wanting to go for something like that anyways, those barrels make a 10/22 look pretty mean. Nicely priced as well. One of those sites had a 10/22 receiver with an M4 style rear charging handle and rail mount for about the same price as the barrel, beyond cool IMO. Never seen anything like that for a Rimfire. Now I need money

BTW otago. A family member of mine just completed combat training, they spent plenty of time doing drills, practicing how to clear a jammed weapon. It's really nothing serious at all unless there is a casing stuck in the chamber, which is less likely in a milspec barrel which has looser tolerances in it's chamber to account for lack of cleaning or high heat. The most common thing is just a misfed round, which is, at worst, dropping the magazine and racking the bolt or slide till empty, reinsert magazine and be on your way. They know what they are doing, it's not like there would not be other people covering them while they cleared their weapon.

 

[Eric.]

I wish I would've looked around just a bit more before getting the GSG-5. Colt makes this:

Supposed to be about $500 as well. But something about it looks a little fake, I'm not sure. The GSG-5 is scanned with a CADcam, so its pretty much exact. Many HK accessories work or are easily made to work.

 

[LSX]

Could have gotten a .223 lower receiver and picked up a parts kit to build your self. Then gotten a .22LR upper and the conversion parts for that. Or just build a whole .223 rifle and get a separate upper for .22 and have best of both worlds. That Colt there does look fun, but can you change the upper out for a .223 or 9mm ? That really is the major advantage to owning an AR rifle. Still want one, .233 with a .458 Socom or 9mm (more useful) spare upper. Though .458 would be devastating to whatever it would hit, it would not be very cheap, in fact I could probably feed it gold and save money. But a 9mm would be lots of fun. .22 even more so because it would be pennys instead of dollars per trigger pull at the range.

The GSG is insanely cool though, there is no other way that I know of to get an MP5 style anything for under 1500$. Holosight and folding stock and your golden haha. I want some tacticool stuff like that haha, I've only got pretty standard stuff. Just need at least 1 EBR then I would not need much else. I've got an Evil Wooden Rife haha. Just not as scary.

 

[Eric.]

The .22 Colt is built on a .22LR platform only. You can't make it shoot anything else. And I don't know enough of anything to do what you just said to build a AR that shoots what I want.

They can shoot 9mm?

 

[LSX]

The .22 Colt is built on a .22LR platform only. You can't make it shoot anything else. And I don't know enough of anything to do what you just said to build a AR that shoots what I want.

They can shoot 9mm?

They sure can.

It can be as simple as replacing the recoil buffer and buffer spring, replacing the hammer, installing a mag block, all of which came with the Rock River conversion kits, and putting the Rock River upper on the lower. Or you can buy a complete 9mm AR from Rock River Arms. I don't know if RRA sells a .22 upper though. But they are who I'd deal with if I were getting an AR. They even have .308 rifles, though they use a both a different upper and lower receiver than a standard AR.

Off the top of my head I believe on a .223 lower receiver you can shoot...

-.223/5.56
- 6.8 SPC - Which is what our soldiers should be armed with.

- .458 Socom .400Gr of solid pain. up to even 600gr

- .243
- 9mm
- .22LR

There are plenty of others as well...

Some like the .458 Socom can even use the .223 magazines.

Most are just simple exchanges of parts, though some are just a simple upper receiver switch. It's a less expensive alternative to owning multiple rifles in multiple calibers. One can even be a short 16in barrel, while the other a 24in bull barrel for varmint shooting. I understand they aren't that hard to build off a parts kit, only a few things like fitting the barrel requiring special tools, but a gunsmith can take care of that for you.

That colt is still sweet though, I'd just rather be able to bump it up to a more capable caliber if needed. But practice would be much cheaper with a .22 LR upper and conversion parts.

 

[Eric.]

Hm. Thanks for the info. Doubt I'd be spending that much on another rifle anytime soon though. I want a Glock next. Then we'll consider ARs.

 

[otago]

Why do you guys bother with 0.22 crap?

I want a Glock next.

I would recommend to try it first. Glocks are cheap plastic guns with crappy sights, questionable ergonomics. Also they are not too precise and have long DA trigger, which sucks in my opinion.

I've seen a lot of people who really hate them. From my experience I like SIG the most, especially P229 in Equinox version. Also 1911 Wilson Combats are very nice handguns as well, if you have around 2500$ to spend

 

[LSX]

Glocks are great firearms. Not cheap plastic, not even close no. They are either comfortable to shoot or not. Due to the way the grip is, most people will tend to shoot higher with a Glock rather than hit where they were thinking they would, a little practice, and it should not be a problem. Sights and trigger pull can be worked on, but then again there is something that would probably fit you better and not have to bother with that otago.

I personally like the Springfield XD. Last I checked one of my local gun stores had XD compacts in 9mm for 535$, I'd really like to get one. I don't know exactly what is it about them, they just work well for me. I think they're ugly to look at, but it's very durable like a Glock, with better ergonomics. If I had extra cash though, a USP would be nice, I love everything about them but the magazine release, or maybe I just haven't spent enough time with a USP to get to where I'm used to it. But, I'm not in the market for a pistol right now anyhow so I guess that's just wishful thinking.

 

[otago]

Glocks are great firearms. Not cheap plastic...I personally like the Springfield XD. Last I checked one of my local gun stores had XD compacts in 9mm for 535$

That's what I'm talking about. Decent guns starts from around 1000$.

There is a very good book for beginners in self defense gunnery written by Massad Ayoob. He favors Glocks but he replaced sights and grip on its own gun, and it can't do better than 3" group at 25 yards. 500$ gun as it is

And 9 mm sucks. If you want 9 mm you need +P+ ammo