Help me be a better driver, how would you take this corner?

[Sean Renon]

Here is part 1.


Now from my perspective


I got assigned a 10 second penalty for this, which seems very very harsh.

I was keeping track of both guys attempting to pass as well as the 4th who was behind me, in my rear view he looks like he is staying behind me, then dives for the inside of the corner at the last second.

This corner wouldn't have been open normally, but I was letting the two guys with a good tow go through.

I still finished well, but this put a big damper on my race.

 

[miata13B]

Looks like you cut too much into the corner not leaving enough room for the following car to make his turn or should I say the turn he should have made. He missed his braking point or did not apply enough brakes there. Probably getting a little over zealous.

However that guy came in to that corner wrong, you can't fix stupid there which unfortunately screwed you.

I would have taken a slightly wider line sacrificing speed. With the overtaking driver I would have gotten him later down the track.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

it looked like you were trying to make a late apex turn which left that huge opening there. a late apex turn here wouldn't help you since there isn't a straight until after the next turn.

ideally I try to trail brake into this turn which would actually get you in fast and close the gap before he even got there.

as for the villain, even though you braked straight and turned in late, it fairly obvious where you are going so he should have anticipated the collision. he did get to the inside before you though, so that's probably why you got the penalty for side swiping him.

 

[Sean Renon]

it looked like you were trying to make a late apex turn which left that huge opening there. a late apex turn here wouldn't help you since there isn't a straight until after the next turn.

ideally I try to trail brake into this turn which would actually get you in fast and close the gap before he even got there.

as for the villain, even though you braked straight and turned in late, it fairly obvious where you are going so he should have anticipated the collision. he did get to the inside before you though, so that's probably why you got the penalty for side swiping him.

I made the late apex turn to let the two other cars through, it wasn't an accident - didn't trust them to brake properly with me in front of them.

Also trail braking on that Ferrari doesn't work for me into that chicane, it throws the car around and gives me a horrible exit. My best time is 1.39.8 and that corner is taken somewhat similar to this (although I don't turn in so late) but I don't trail brake.

Not saying trail braking is wrong, but I can't figure out how to do it in that car. I get pretty horrible sector times if I trail brake into that chicane.

 

[Tekku]

I'd say were too far behind when you decided to go for the inside line and cut him off. In order to make those kind of overtakes it has to be clear to the opposing driver that you are going to make a move. The move is signaled by going up right beside him, braking much later OR by making your front axle pass his back axle. Neither of these occurred in this particular situation. You were a car length behind when you both started to brake, and then suddenly you attacked when you saw how late he was to turn in. He wasn't anticipating your move so he went for the inside line thus crashing into you.

It's probably the most common collision in the game and it also happens all of the time in real life. It's very hard to make the right decisions in fast corner situations. You have to keep track of many things and the car is busy with lots of inputs.

 

[Sean Renon]

I'd say were too far behind when you decided to go for the inside line and cut him off. In order to make those kind of overtakes it has to be clear to the opposing driver that you are going to make a move. The move is signaled by going up right beside him, braking much later OR by making your front axle pass his back axle. Neither of these occurred in this particular situation. You were a car length behind when you both started to brake, and then suddenly you attacked when you saw how late he was to turn in. He wasn't anticipating your move so he went for the inside line thus crashing into you.

It's probably the most common collision in the game and it also happens all of the time in real life. It's very hard to make the right decisions in fast corner situations. You have to keep track of many things and the car is busy with lots of inputs.

I'm the Ferrari, MalevolentFather - part 1 is from the opponents view, part 2 is my view.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I made the late apex turn to let the two other cars through, it wasn't an accident - didn't trust them to brake properly with me in front of them.

Also trail braking on that Ferrari doesn't work for me into that chicane, it throws the car around and gives me a horrible exit. My best time is 1.39.8 and that corner is taken somewhat similar to this (although I don't turn in so late) but I don't trail brake.

Not saying trail braking is wrong, but I can't figure out how to do it in that car. I get pretty horrible sector times if I trail brake into that chicane.

okay. if you're late apexing that turn specifically, you need to assume that someone is going inside and leave them a 3/4 cars width on the inside even though they're probably going to side swipe you.

 

[Tekku]

I'm the Ferrari, MalevolentFather - part 1 is from the opponents view, part 2 is my view.

Ok I see. Was a bit confusing when you had the cam on the other car.

But my message still applies and I believe that the McLaren is at fault. I'm having problems with these situations as well and I've learnt that it's sometimes better to take a slightly worse line if it means that you will protect the inside. If this situation presents itself again then try to move inwards slowly and then take up all the inside space when you make the turn in. This also works at the exit of a corner where someone tries to go on the outside to end up on the inside ahead of you. You can then actively drive along the inside to mess up the opposing drivers line.

 

[miata13B]

You also could have let up a little on your steering angle there. It may have avoided this. Maybe not totally avoided, but it could have softened the blow and you may not have gotten the penalty

 

[mattvieri]

Mate, you didn't do anything wrong here. You were in the line for the fast exit while braking early to avoid what was happening in front. The green car was trying to take advantage of your sportsmanship there. You were already in turn on the line when he smashed it up I the inside. It's not your responsibility in this case to make space for him. He's well behind and should have simply followed through there

But this is the main problem with having people if all different abilities, there are so many idiosyncrasies. Where as if you're watching formula 1 where everyone out there is pretty much capable of winning with the right car you don't get this kind of thing, not to mention the fact you have a team officiating the whole thing. Here you have an inconsistent algorithm overlord

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Mate, you didn't do anything wrong here.

keep in mind, he didn't ask if he did anything wrong. more explicitly he asked how we would take this corner. I commend his open perspective and I think it's the right attitude to have.

most people show these clips and wonder "who's at fault", the more mature question isn't who's to blame, but rather, could I have avoided this? what could I have done differently to create a different outcome? I think that if most people approached these collisions with the same sentiment as the OP they would become better drivers faster.

 

[zzz_pt]

Another case showing a stupid 10 sec penalty. You did nothing wrong. You gave space for the Bettle (and the crazy Viper). The Guy in the McLaren just dived into the inside when you were already braking and turning. He should have gotten the 10 sec penalty, not you.

Classic PD's penalty system stupidity at work.

On your question: I would do the same you did.

 

[Deadheadbill]

That chicane is a mess. I got divebombed all the way back to 20th in the mfg cup on the1st lap on the opposite side into the sand by a overzealous driver. I took basically the same line as you did. Couldn't get back into traffic until every single car had passed thru. Some drivers just put the pedal down thru there and hope to come out the other side regardless of who they hit.

 

[PzR Slim]

If in doubt...

 

[Ian Fairbanks]

At an actual track, he would be flagged for bad driving. He would be penalized. This is GT, a different sort of racing league. Don’t worry, you’ll live.
Next time though, don’t leave your apex open. You missed it and he went for it (he really shouldn’t have, and he got what he deserved)

 

[Lion-Face]

Yeah Mclaren driver at fault. I would have driven the same line as you and think you did the correct thing.

The reason you got a penalty is because (from what I have been figuring out) when 2 cars are involved in a collision, and one car goes off track, the other car gets a time penalty. Regardless who is at fault. You have to try and avoid situations like these to avoid these penalties, but that one I don't think anyone saw coming until too late, well, except for the mclaren driver.

 

[dabz343]

At the 15 sec mark of your 1st video, it's clear that you were getting off brakes, steering left to enter the chicane and about a car length ahead. The McLaren made a poor choice to take the inside line though you were already committed. He deserves the penalty.

How would I take the turn differently?

During the run up to the chicane, I would have positioned myself closer to the Bug (giving him room of course) so that the outside line is available for those that are trailing, if they want it. At the 12 sec mark of your 1st video, you were positioned way too far right IMO and gave the trailing viper and McLaren an irresistible opportunity. Tough to pull off if you are not comfortable adjusting your line within a crowd, but a very effective way to avoid multiple cars entering simultaneously (also, remember to adhere to the rules for blocking).

This is why some of us deliberately take different entry/apex/exit points during practice, worthwhile if your races tend to be in close proximity to others. Cheers, GL.

 

[Tekku]

But this is the main problem with having people if all different abilities, there are so many idiosyncrasies. Where as if you're watching formula 1 where everyone out there is pretty much capable of winning with the right car you don't get this kind of thing, not to mention the fact you have a team officiating the whole thing. Here you have an inconsistent algorithm overlord

Experience and skill does not always equal safe and consistent driving. F1 is actually a good example of drivers continuously forgetting how to behave on track. That's why there's so many F1 memes about faulty driver behaviour. Even Senna was notorious for causing dangerous situations where he refused to give the other drivers enough space. There's just too much process from time to time and mistakes are easily made, even by the best ones.

 

[mattvieri]

Experience and skill does not always equal safe and consistent driving. F1 is actually a good example of drivers continuously forgetting how to behave on track. That's why there's so many F1 memes about faulty driver behaviour. Even Senna was notorious for causing dangerous situations where he refused to give the other drivers enough space. There's just too much process from time to time and mistakes are easily made, even by the best ones.

Sure mate, not quite the same. Memes and all. Racing is racing there's always incidents, which is partly what makes it interesting otherwise I'd just stick with scalextric. Regardless I was pointing more towards the variation in skills levels which drives a lot of these ridiculous moments.

 

[RotorHed]

Here is part 1.


Now from my perspective


I got assigned a 10 second penalty for this, which seems very very harsh.

I was keeping track of both guys attempting to pass as well as the 4th who was behind me, in my rear view he looks like he is staying behind me, then dives for the inside of the corner at the last second.

This corner wouldn't have been open normally, but I was letting the two guys with a good tow go through.

I still finished well, but this put a big damper on my race.

Can I ask, why didn't you defend the inside line?

Also you should've got a time penalty and an SR degrade - if you didn't get the SR down you got away with one... Hopefully PD will fix that in future.

 

[JulesDennis]

All I see is one guy making a legit pass after OP lifted and gave him clear signal to "pass him",a second guy thinking "hey,I am gonna dive there since the door is open and get them both" -did that and hit the first guy and then a third one that went " if those dives work and the Ferrari is losing possitions I should dive too and follow them" when he should not.
Check how Corvette makes it 3 wide going into the S btw.
OP gave a lot of room and did not block anyone (but he did actually "turned" into the last guy).That guy should not have dived in there in the first place,since he has a clear view of what is happening,but the door was "open" so he was like "Why not?" -going almost off track-.
Then OP that actually did give space to others got a penalty for doing -almost- nothing wrong.
Is it another case of "well,we hope PD will fix this one too at some point"?
In order to defend the system and PD (because its not easy at all to fix or create a good penalty system) if any of you checked the 6 Hours of Shanghai (WEC) there was a similar incident in turn one with 2 LMP2 cars (if I recall one was the DC motorsports and the other was G-DRIVE)that hit each other and went off track and the officials gave a penalty to the G-DRIVE that was the car in front just like OP was.The commentetors (ex-proffesional drivers btw) did not had the same opinion (they were saying that pretty much the DC driver forced the issue),the G-DRIVER was "I am a racing driver,I wont lift off and go out of the way because the other guy wants to pass",I was in between,because imho both forced the issue -DC was too agressive and G-DRIVER pretty much did not gave any room to the other- (not like OP's video).But either way just an example that even irl its not easy to solve problems like that,so its even more difficult to create a system that can do that.

EDIT:After I've watched the video once again,I can say that even though that guy should not have dived in there -because of the way people were racing in front of him- in the first place,the penalty is fair.OP did not want to make any contact/mistake but he is responsible for that.

 

[DizzleGolf17]

You left the door open and the idiot walked through it! Had you placed your car more on the inside line there wouldn’t be as much room!

Alternative you could’ve stayed on the outside braked early and wait for idiot to go by to give you a good run after hitting the apex

 

[danthespam]

Bit of a 50/50 really (well, maybe 60/40, ok let’s settle on 70/30), you had a better line and left a cars width at the apex, don't think he would've made the pass and not hit you even if you'd left lots of room. Hard to say what to do in that situation as it was very tight, defending the inside wasn't an option initially as you had cars inside. I think maybe I'd've stayed right from the very first instance (on the straight) then all 3 have to go around you. That way if you brake and make the tight apex you've done nothing wrong. Not an easy situation to get right time after time and whilst I think the collision was avoidable I'd put the majority of the fault at the chasing cars feet as it was an ill advised impatient move and you were really trying to be clean.

 

[MaxJP]

Here is part 1.


Now from my perspective


I got assigned a 10 second penalty for this, which seems very very harsh.

I was keeping track of both guys attempting to pass as well as the 4th who was behind me, in my rear view he looks like he is staying behind me, then dives for the inside of the corner at the last second.

This corner wouldn't have been open normally, but I was letting the two guys with a good tow go through.

I still finished well, but this put a big damper on my race.

Z28 gaming on YouTube. Check him out. He got guidelines on this track. Also others and is working on more. He's a fast driver and really cool dude. Hope that helps

 

[Veinz]

You did fine dealing with the Beatle, he may have got a better run than you on the final corner of the last lap and used the slipstream to his advantage but that's racing. He seemed clean.

Both the Viper and the McLaren got too greedy and drove like idiots, but at least the McLaren got what he deserved. Even if you placed your car on the inside I'd be willing to bet one of those two cars would still crash into you and take you out.

 

[Sean Renon]

Can I ask, why didn't you defend the inside line?

Also you should've got a time penalty and an SR degrade - if you didn't get the SR down you got away with one... Hopefully PD will fix that in future.

I didn't defend the inside against the viper because of how he was driving in my rear view up to this point. I had a very good feeling he was going to dive me.

Not sure why you think I'm at fault, if you watch the second video you'll see the mclaren in my rear view when I start turning, how am I supposed to know he's going to hit the gas and dive into the corner.

Truthfully the reason I turned in later was to make sure both the viper and beetle cleared my bumper.

Sure I could've defended the inside, and in hindsight I probably should have, but I just don't understand why you think I'm at fault.

Also I did get minus SR and a 10 second penalty.

 

[Deadheadbill]

I'm sorry you got the penalty, but personally I like the fact that you punted his ass off the track. Dude had no desire to race clean he just wanted to force his way thru a crack at the expense of whoever got in his way.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

EDIT:After I've watched the video once again,I can say that even though that guy should not have dived in there -because of the way people were racing in front of him- in the first place,the penalty is fair.OP did not want to make any contact/mistake but he is responsible for that.

Good point.

There seems to be a split in logic about these incidents. The best analogy I can make is that if someone punches you, they committed a crime. At that point, if you pulled out a gun and shot them.. you would still be committing a crime and there isn't a wash because the villain punched you. The law would prosecute you both measuring each incident on it's own merit.

From what I can gather, racing is no different. In this case, the villain totally was in the wrong to dive into the apex. Okay, now he's there... that doesn't mean you can run him off of the course even if he's cheating or can even bump him. The SR system doesn't seem to have a way to assess dive bombing as it's own independent penalty. So, it seems a bit much for us to expect it to have extended penalties occurring from dive bombing when it can't even assess dive bombing.

 

[JulesDennis]

Good point.

There seems to be a split in logic about these incidents. The best analogy I can make is that if someone punches you, they committed a crime. At that point, if you pulled out a gun and shot them.. you would still be committing a crime and there isn't a wash because the villain punched you. The law would prosecute you both measuring each incident on it's own merit.

From what I can gather, racing is no different. In this case, the villain totally was in the wrong to dive into the apex. Okay, now he's there... that doesn't mean you can run him off of the course even if he's cheating or can even bump him. The SR system doesn't seem to have a way to assess dive bombing as it's own independent penalty. So, it seems a bit much for us to expect it to have extended penalties occurring from dive bombing when it can't even assess dive bombing.

The penalty is fair imo because OP turned on that guy after the "dive-bomb".He was already there and did not actually hit OP.
At first look I did not focus only to that contact but looking the "overall" situation.Second look I just focused on that last part (contact and penalty).
And if you think about it,OP was in the "outside" line,going slower -by his choice- and then turned to the car that was left of his.The mclaren was already there.It does not matter if he could make the S clean (if he was alone) or if he was too agressive (my opinion is no/yes).
What matters is that they were side by side and OP turned on him and put him out.If Op did not do that then it would be another situation (when mclaren would have hit OP propably) and perhaps the penalty would go the other way around.In either case since OP decided to give space and then "take it back" plus mclaren decided to follow bettle/corvette and dive there was going to be a contact no matter what.

 

[Conquerer]

This is a tough one because the Beetle already has the inside on you going into the corner, and the Viper is ready to take advantage of you as well by also taking the inside since he can follow the Beetle with the same line. In the moment it's a real tough call and I'm not gonna pretend I would've done any better cause it's essentially a disaster waiting to happen. But with the ability to rewatch this a few times, I think you had two options really:

1. concede to the Beetle since he has the inside and immediately jump on his tail (Viper is still a wild card though)
2. compensate for the Beetle by braking a bit later and staying on his outside which will turn to the inside for the 2nd part of the chicane

Option 1 puts you more at risk to lose position to the Viper, or make contact, since he was following so closely to the Beetle. But in hindsight he (wrongly) divebombed the Beetle and wouldn't've been a factor if you tried to get on the Beetle's bumper right away. The idiot in the McLaren might've still hit you anyway since he came in way too hot without any respect or care, although it was probably because you were on the outside after letting them through that he thought he had an opportunity (he didn't).

Option 2 in foresight will probably have you running side by side with the Beetle into the corner and could have you pushed off to the right if he makes contact with you, but watching what happens it looks like he took a good tight line into the corner and gave you enough space to perform this maneuver on the outside and keep the position ahead of him. However... the Viper screws this up by divebombing him and shoving him across the track where you would've been had you done this, so there likely would've still been contact had you done this. Probably would've avoided the idiot in the McLaren this way though.

Without the benefit of seeing what happens, I think option 2 is the best move for keeping the position (with some risk of contact) while option 1 is the best if you want to play it safe, even though the Viper being a wild card prevents it from being too safe of a decision anyway. But in a world where anything can happen, it looks like no matter what you did this was going to end up in a collision because of the irresponsibly ambitious move by the Viper trying to make a double pass, and the ridiculous move by the McLaren thinking you were never going to turn into the corner. And the thing is, each and every time you face a situation like this, each driver will act a bit different so it's very hard to predict.