How does the GT community really feel about catch the rabbit races?

[Nielsen]

Sadly, you missed the point. It has everything to do with sales numbers as I explained. Chase the rabbit may as well be Mario Cart races for all that it matters. If lots of people keep buying what gets churned out nothing will change. When it stops selling only then will PD (or any other developer) take any notice.

This "chase the rabbit" has been like this since GT 5 Prologue when I first started playing so nothing that gets discussed here will have any impact on this game. And the next iteration, whether it be GT Sport 2 or GT7 will be just the same! :-( PD have the sales numbers to know what has sold well so they will continue to dish up exactly the same stuff right up until it stops selling.

I didn't miss your point. I just think your point is flawed, especially when considering how GT Sport aimed for a fresh reboot of the franchise. So it's not like PD doesn't ever change things. There are far bigger reasons why GT enjoys superior sales over the competition than the old chase the rabbit formula.

 

[MatskiMonk]

And so they can collect meta data on driving, that they then use to help write algorithms for the RoboRace

As long as RoboRace doesn't get smart enough to automatically generate SR/DR rage quit posts on GTP when there's a bunch of contact at T1, I don't have a problem with it!

 

[MisterOne77]

I suck at the game so their fine to me.

 

[Conquerer]

I wish people would stop treating Gran Turismo 4 as this Citizen Kane of driving games and everything surrounding it is ass by comparison. You do realise that without the rose-tinted nostalgia goggles those PS2 games are the exact same as what we have today: rolling start, chase the rabbit, become first by the end of the second lap. Yes, I have played those games, the AI hasn't mysteriously gotten "worse" over the course of the series. The custom race BMW M6s on Expert are probably the fastest the AI's ever been, and those are easy to beat.

GT4 wasn't catch the rabbit though. Yes, it had rolling starts but the lead car was always viewable from the start line and clearly within reach. You didn't have to outpace him by 3-5s per lap just to beat him.

As for the AI being better or worse, I don't think GT4 and earlier games had particularly great AI but I do think it's gotten worse since then, strictly because of the catch the rabbit format. They have to compensate for cars starting so far ahead by making them lap at a slow enough pace that you can catch them, whereas they had no such restrictions in GT4 and earlier. And further, the PS1/PS2 games did have some pretty skilled AI at times and I specifically remember some instances. The Vitz Cup in GT3 was a real challenge if you weren't at the absolute top of your game. But either way, the fact that we are even comparing a modern 2017 game's AI to games from 15 years ago is embarrassing... GT Sport shouldn't even have AI that is marginally better than those games -- it should be significantly better, and it really isn't.

And again, the custom race AI is certainly better than GT League, but why is that? Why does PD arbitrarily use the catch the rabbit format and slow AI for the mode that actually has progression and matters, yet provides superior AI and closer starts for custom races that do not count towards any specific completion (beyond Driver score, mileage, etc.). It baffles me that they don't just structure GT League exactly like default custom races. That alone would already be a lot better. But instead they shoot themselves in the foot and use worse AI and ridiculous starting positions with no explanation as to why. That's been a problem with so many things they've done since GT5... "Why?"

 

[VBR]

The AI is the biggest failure of this game. If you want to understand why some drivers in Sport Mode are so willing to resort to the bash-to-pass method, look no further than what we've all learned in YEARS of racing PD's AI. Brake checks, choppy throttle control, rubber banding, and rabbit cars that are OP for the event.

Couple that with the "overtake as many cars as quickly as possible" GT licence tests that inadvertently encourage bad driving while bearing no resemblance to any real world qualifications, & we have a recipe for disaster. I'd like to see licence tests that are about driving cleanly, racing safely, & how to be overtaken in multiclass scenarios etc.

 

[05XR8]

Someone mentioned about getting people off roads and into games. Interesting:
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/08/h...al-v8-supercars/amp?__twitter_impression=true

"My vision for the future would be that with future technology the esports gaming industry outgrows its real life counterpart which would completely eradicate the need to go racing in real life and the drivers / esports athletes can be judged and score results based on true ability without the variables that can heavily influence a real life racing drivers career, and that’s not to mention it would almost completely remove the high financial barrier to entry that drivers wishing to go about competing in real life have to overcome."

With better AI, maybe...

 

[twitcher]

Someone mentioned about getting people off roads and into games. Interesting:
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/08/h...al-v8-supercars/amp?__twitter_impression=true

With better AI, maybe...

Well, Richie just lost a fan 👎

 

[golfer07840]

True, and I forgot to mention that. I've had quite a bit of fun in the few custom races i've tried since the grid starts much closer together and the AI is quite a bit better as well. Really don't get why they keep the campaign AI so half-assed when it's hard proof that they can be better in the custom races.

A few things.

1. The AI is DIRTY, especially in the rally race at Willow Springs. I get up to like 3rd place and then all of a sudden I'm bumped off the road and literally rolling or flipping off the track.

2. I too have noticed, that the AI is much different in the custom races.

3. I see the GT League as a way to learn tracks with traffic and a way to make cash.

Plain and simple.

Want a challenge? Start near the back of the grid in a custom race on the Professional setting. Turn all the penalties on Strong and also turn on the collision penalties along with mechanical damage and do about 30 laps with tire and gas settings on like 5x.

And Here's a thought.

Any chance this isn't a lack of interesting in GTS in Sport mode issue than some people not wanting to pony up the $$ to be on the PSN servers?

GTS is the only reason why I pay for PSN. Technically I pay $10 a month to play GTS.

 

[Veinz]

The AI on professional setting is still slow af.

 

[golfer07840]

As I see it, leagues is a canned scenario. Its not a pure race per se.

I would love the ability to change parameters but that hasnt been the case for 10yrs.

I'm not going to get worked up over something that isnt going to change.

For people who want it to be something its not, good luck.

I see 'leagues' as just basically grabbing the trophy given their restrictive parameters.

I see the GT League as a way to learn tracks with traffic and a way to make cash.

Plain and simple.

View attachment 757490

There’s a definite argument to be had that the offline career, improved AI, would enhance GTS.

PD must feel some disappointment with the level of sport mode participation. The game is built for this online competition but yet the majority of consumers are playing, using it offline.

Whilst the AI desperately need to be improved theres also as the figures suggest a need for sport mode to be improved.

Here's a thought.

Any chance this isn't a lack of interesting in GTS in Sport mode issue than some people not wanting to pony up the $$ to be on the PSN servers?

GTS is the only reason why I pay for PSN. Technically I pay $10 a month to play GTS.

 

[rono_thomas]

PS+ subscribers.

Active PSN accounts

Only 6% of GTS consumers have completed more than 20 sport mode races, I’d say that was a lack of interest.

 

[Macboyilija]

If it is hardly fun at all, then don't play it?

I guess 90 procent of the voters dont play GT league and thus have time to vote.

 

[VBR]

The AI on professional setting is still slow af.

I've taken to nerfing my car in one make custom races. Go down 1 tyre compound, lower the power, & add maximum weight. It's better, but I can still overtake a full grid of 20 tarded AI from the back in a ten minute race with plenty of time to spare on most tracks, & I'm no alien.

 

[dabz343]

Here we go, flame suit on ;-)

Yep all good points and yes I feel the pain too but it will NOT and has NOT changed from previous games.

According to the current propaganda out there 6million have bought/played this game so WHY would PD change what they are doing? Why when you have outsold your competition would you even think about changing doing what you are doing?

So to everyone reading this *IT IS YOUR FAULT*! You bought the game, you already new what it was going to be like, you have given your tick of approval to PD to continue rehashing the same old garbage over and over.

The game is a glorified arcade game designed for noobies on hand controllers with pretty graphics, cartoon cars you can dress up like Barbie and make believe tracks. And YOU have gobbled it up.

Yes, I have too :-( Only because it has the best and most stable online and all my racing buddies have it so I either join in with the masses or race alone with far better games, with better cars/tracks/physics. There's my choice >:-( Between a rock and a hard place :-(

Just stop and consider this for a while. As a game developer (and a very successful one) PD do what they do to make money and while they keep making money they will stick to their proven formula. *IF* this game had sold under 1 million copies, sport races deserted, hardly any online lobbies and pages of negative feedback here and elsewhere do you think we would be even having this conversation? Don't you think we would be hearing about GT7 being brought forward and PD's new physics and AI model?

PD have given the public what we asked for. And we have gobbled it up by the millions! Simple really ;-)

PS here is an example of failure to listen. For the whole of GT6 there was a campaign raging to bring back Shuffle Racing. Has anyone seen it yet? I'm sure the same people asking for it have bought GT Sport too so it goes to prove my point ;-)

One of the most refreshing notes I've come across in months, but this pov is too much for the Dunning-Kruger crowd.

Nothing will change, they like this love/hate relationship, best to just avoid this crowd. We should race sometime.

 

[GTCam]

I am okay with chase the rabbit as it provides me with the arcade experience like playing Daytona, but Daytona AI are tough and dirty and the slower races can be quite boring.

A few thoughts:

Is this a driving simulator or a racing simulator? ... I suspect the former doesn’t require fast AI.

GTSport has a completely different focus; on the line racing with an esport focus. I would think that that is where the true real racing is.

I am thankful that GTLeague exists, as it gives me something to complete like the older versions, as well as earning money and mi.
As suggested above though, I do think it can be boring and tedious to just tick a box.

As I am truly an arcade racer, for fun I use the custom races and setup the hardest chase the rabbit experience I can using fast cars, the hardest AI and small lap counts.

 

[TT92]

One of the most refreshing notes I've come across in months, but this pov is too much for the Dunning-Kruger crowd.

Nothing will change, they like this love/hate relationship, best to just avoid this crowd. We should race sometime.

Thank you for your comment. Here I was thinking I was this lone voice in the wilderness.

Once we all realise "nothing will change" (unless sales figures plummet) then you can stop getting frustrated over this "game" and enjoy it for what it is.

 

[dabz343]

Thank you for your comment. Here I was thinking I was this lone voice in the wilderness.

Once we all realise "nothing will change" (unless sales figures plummet) then you can stop getting frustrated over this "game" and enjoy it for what it is.

Logic, rationality and a sense of fair play often gets lost when boys get emotional over their toys...good to see GTP isn't a desolate wilderness.

 

[Jmac279]

PS+ subscribers.

Active PSN accounts

Only 6% of GTS consumers have completed more than 20 sport mode races, I’d say that was a lack of interest.

I've completed 0. I have no interest in online racing and the lack of an offline mode was the primary reason why I didn't pre-order GT Sport (lack of cars being the other main reason).

 

[ImaRobot]

Is this a driving simulator or a racing simulator? ... I suspect the former doesn’t require fast AI.

If that's the case, it also wouldn't require race tracks either. Driving and racing go hand in hand in my opinion.

GTSport has a completely different focus; on the line racing with an esport focus. I would think that that is where the true real racing is.

It seemed like that at first, but the implementation of this feature is throwing a wrench in the cog, for that point. They backtracked to try to make it appealing to more than just people who are into multiplayer aspects of these games. If they're going to implement something, it shouldn't be taboo to expect it to be at a similar degree of other features in the game. Either way, the lack of a career-like mode was one of my main gripes at first, so I'm glad that it's at least been implemented.

 

[PzR Slim]

nvm

 

[VXR]

I use GT League simply to amass MP and Cr. as quickly as possible, so it really doesn't bother me too much.

 

[Zowy52]

Just some thoughts from my time spent on GTS:
I tried the online experience and it left me feeling sort of blah about it. I have about an hour a day that I might be able to spend driving and the on line events really waste a lot of time getting started. I can do maybe 3 in the time that I have available. I have a pretty good SR rating, have achieved level 50, golds on all the other challenges, own every car in the game, but every on line race seems to just suck down my DR rating. I'm not the worlds best driver as my DR apparently shows, but I do enjoy passing other cars and winning a lot of whatever meaningless things that the game awards to you. Every ( well most) online race that I have been in, I have been able to finish higher than my starting position, but not high enough to keep my DR rating from dropping like a rock.
I like the xbow bluemoon races as I can win a bunch of stuff in a short time. At my low skill level, this is a race that requires me to pay attention if I want the clean race bonus. The latest tire update has slowed my lap times by about .5 secs and made the likelihood of spinning out more of a concern. The AI behave differently depending on where on the track you encounter them, requiring a little bit of focus, that takes my mind off of the real world worries of the day. I get a pittance of rewards from online and a lot of "Feels Good", from my offline experiences. Maybe this is what GTS is for a lot of us less dedicated players?

 

[VBR]

PS here is an example of failure to listen. For the whole of GT6 there was a campaign raging to bring back Shuffle Racing. Has anyone seen it yet? I'm sure the same people asking for it have bought GT Sport too so it goes to prove my point ;-)

Here it is if anyone is interested: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...cing-in-gt6-see-my-gt-sport-poll-also.291700/

Also, one for GT Sport: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/hey-pd-online-shuffle-race-mode-for-gt-sport-please.380319/

 

[TT92]

Here it is if anyone is interested: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...cing-in-gt6-see-my-gt-sport-poll-also.291700/

Also, one for GT Sport: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/hey-pd-online-shuffle-race-mode-for-gt-sport-please.380319/

Thanks for sharing that and yes, I did vote yes both times to have it brought back.

So PD has sold over 5 million copies of GT6 without shuffle and now a further 6 million of Sport with out it so I would not hold my breath about seeing it any time soon ;-)

And again, my point is, PD will only react to sales and nothing else. Yeah there will be the odd tweak here and there but they will follow their planned design route and that's it. The only real way to make them listen is to not buy the game. So in us buying Sport we have given them the seal of approval to do exactly what they are doing now.

BTW the total franchise is now over 76 million games sold in the GT series so if Kaz has only made $1.00 a game that makes him pretty well off and gives him a pretty good reason to have a fairly low care factor about our comments here ;-)

 

[VBR]

@TT92 - From a business point of view, sure. If they're making money then why the heck would they need to listen to anyone. Kaz has always had a very personal vision for the game, & if our needs/wants don't fit in with that he's very unlikely to entertain them. He also comes across as very close minded & ignorant of the community here on GT Planet. At least I only paid £15.99 for GT Sport, & for me it was still worth it despite it's flaws.

 

[CRN_G-TR]

Offline is so one dimensional...they should at least add qualifying, dynamic weather, multi-class drama...it's like PD does not understand motorsport.

Its the fist ps4 title have some patience they cant implement alll that stuff at once they buildt a base with this current engine and i will develop and improve for it for this current and nextgen Hardware, Pd understands motorsport really well i think you dont understand game development.

 

[dabz343]

Its the fist ps4 title have some patience they cant implement alll that stuff at once

It has been nearly a year? Would have been nice to have dynamic weather by now for both offline/online, especially for the final FIA season where someone will be crowned...you know, where the best can showcase their skills?

i think you don't understand game development

I do understand project development. Strategizing/ideating/concepting/prototyping/marketing/production/go-to-market/refinement/iteration...but I fail to see how my lack of game development is in question when PD are the experts?

And if I follow your line of making assumptions about people you do not know, then I think that you don't understand the term "improvements".

 

[GTCam]

If that's the case, it also wouldn't require race tracks either. Driving and racing go hand in hand in my opinion.

Nice counter with the Race Track reference.

This mode of the game is certainly an after thought for which they are playing catch-up. Though although GTLeague has been tacked on, it still won’t be their focus, just like VR Mode.

For GTLeague (and VR), in my opinion they are shooting for Minimum Viable Product.

 

[TT92]

At least I only paid £15.99 for GT Sport, & for me it was still worth it despite it's flaws.

I paid full price A$99.00 so nearly triple what you paid. Also having said that I am getting my monies worth if only for the online private lobbies.
**IF** my online friends had not bought this then I would not have touched it with a barge pole! The one thing that I can give PD and Sony full credit for is that the online lobby set up is the best available and it has the best graphics (on a PS4 Pro).

Assetto Corsa has the best physics and PCARS2 has the best car and track line up. The only thing is my friends that tried these games didn't want to stick at them (for various reasons) and everyone has gravitated to GTS :-(

A bit like an old VW Beetle, it doesn't do anything really well, you would rather own something else but at the end of the day it does get you from A-B. I would love to see Kaz'z face when "translator San" reads to him that someone just compared his game to an old VW Beetle :-) Anyway they are both called "Bugs" so the analogy holds even further ;-)

For GTLeague (and VR), in my opinion they are shooting for Minimum Viable Product.

I do like this statement and it pretty well sums up my point about what PD will continue to dish up to us.[/user]

 

[MisterWaffles]

I dusted off my PS3, booted up Gran Turismo 5 on my PS3 today and played some Arcade Mode with the GT by Citroen Race Car to do some AI testing, (and also to snap a bunch of photos)

I can definitely say after playing Arcade Mode in Sport immediately after on the same track with the same car that the AI on professional difficulty in both games is much more challenging in GT Sport.

While in GT5 I was able to become first by the end of the first lap (after a couple retries of being randomly brake-checked by the AI), in GT Sport it took me a couple laps to catch up to the M6 Twins and start challenging them.

Just my conclusions, I had fun revisiting GT5 though, a visit to my replay and photo album brought back a lot of good memories.