Very well articulated points, I was however speaking more on whether or not us consumers are doing a good job of submitting ideas. I do think that even on a reasonably high quality forum like GTP individuals put forward extremely conflicting points of view, let alone us as a collective. Many seem to demand that someone listen when they speak, but speak as if no-one is listening (ie. ranting without explaining).
Moving along, it was Earth that on here posed the question "Can PD be trusted to make a great game anymore without consumer input?" This kind of attitude is a real problem for me. Some people seem to act as if they have stock in a game, musician, etc., and that they have the right to dictate outcomes. It is a phenomenon of the modern world where people expect to be friends with their nominated hero, and stand beside them rather than looking up to them. Where people take ownership of too much outside of themselves, and not enough of what is inside of themselves. This is all very Dr Phil for a chat about a broom broom game I know, but I feel that the dynamic between developers and consumers is growing more and more confused.
After so much interaction (between developers and consumers) in our current age, the questions that remain for me are: Are the games better? More importantly, are they more enjoyable?
As someone who has trouble abstaining from scrutinising everything around me, I think I for one need a bit of blissful ignorance in my life sometimes. If you were told that the third tyre in the wall on the apex of turn 7 had a glitch where it sometimes shakes inexplicably, you would be more likely to notice it, yes? If you are beta testing - scrutinise, if you are playing - just enjoy.
Hope that some can make sense of these ramblings.
I think PD putting out products that are commonly ranted about (like GT5) isn't really the result of lackluster feedback from fans.
Yes, some people on this forum sometimes offer extreme, nonsensical and poorly articulated ideas, but I still feel like a well-run company attempts to navigate the muck and deduce some kind of collective opinion. I know it seems like there's a lot of conflicting posts on here, but there's a huge amount of cars, tracks, and ideas that pretty much everyone on the forum agrees upon. And I'm sure not the only person who feels that PD doesn't take advantage of these collective opinions as much as they should. I know if they did, we would be receiving better products than the ones we're currently receiving.
Still, I do agree that people on this forum spend their time barking up the wrong tree — ignorant of the fact that their opinion will never be seen by PD and that their post will change nothing, but I don't mind this. I know when I critique GT5 and offer my opinions about how GT6 should be made, I'm not expecting a Sony executive to read my post and phone-in Kaz about the latest and greatest idea he's seen on GTPlanet. I offer my feedback and opinions for the sake of discussion. I like GT and I like talking about it just for the fun of it. I don't post to incite some kind of epiphany in Kaz. I've become too apathetic for that.
I also dislike the idea of celebrity worship. People say that PD owes me nothing. That's fine. But I don't owe PD anything, either. I bought their product. I've bought all their products. I have the right to offer input because PD's employees and myself are equals. They aren't my heros and I'm going to criticize them when they make silly decisions.
Some people mistake this as me having a sense of entitlement. I think that is the wrong choice of words. Again, I don't criticize PD because I think my ranting is going to change something and because PD NEEDS TO LISTEN TO ME due to my unrivaled car and video game genius. I rant because this is a forum. Forums exist to harbor discussion, and I like discussion about driving video games. A positive result of forums can be market research for companies involved with the topic at hand, but apparently this is a foreign concept for PD.
I know you prefer to just sit back and enjoy the game, because you understand that our opinons as a collective group don't have much of an effect on the finished product. If we complain enough, we'll eventually get our Bathurst, but we're never going to get everything we want. I should probably sit back and come to grips with this conclusion as well, but I don't think I want to. Maybe I just like wallowing in my own misery. I don't know.