How NASCAR Will Fare?

[zepheadGT3]

okay, i don't hate NASCAR.... i just think there are other series that are more entertaining than NASCAR.... ones that don't require a caution period when the television coverage goes to a commercial.... and like i said, thats a few cars that are in the ALMS AND LeMans series... a few..

 

[CodeRedR51]

.... ones that don't require a caution period when the television coverage goes to a commercial....

Where do you get this info from?

 

[McLaren]

okay, i don't hate NASCAR.... i just think there are other series that are more entertaining than NASCAR.... ones that don't require a caution period when the television coverage goes to a commercial.... and like i said, thats a few cars that are in the ALMS AND LeMans series... a few..

That makes absolutely no sense. I've seen lots of motorsports do the same....

 

[Earth]

okay, i don't hate NASCAR.... i just think there are other series that are more entertaining than NASCAR.... ones that don't require a caution period when the television coverage goes to a commercial.... and like i said, thats a few cars that are in the ALMS AND LeMans series... a few..

So you prefer a racing series that has incidents like this and this?

Though what you stated is false, all racing series have their positives and negatives, just many people only choose to see NASCAR's negatives

 

[Chadwicksracing]

I love reading the hater comments here. There have been some really good replies in defense of Nascar. I love it. Keep it up haters.

 

[Demon Drone]

You want to know why NASCAR gets so much hate world wide? Let's take a look. First off the car is crap. Too many regulations. The "competition" is so manufactured. All these "debris" cautions. And lucky dog? The chase? What the hell? This is racing not ball and stick sports. It's become so bastardized it's not funny. Let the drivers and the teams create the competition not the rule makers. It makes for bad racing. I'm looking at you as well IRL.
And the road courses. Drivers get other drivers to drive for them because they don't have the stones to road race. What kind of crap is that? NASCAR used to be great and I enjoyed watching it week in and week out. But now, it's become such a bastardized form of racing.
And this can be applied to about any major racing series in the US. It's a shame really. Going back to what I said earlier; what happened to innovation? What happened to people not wanting to settle for mediocrity?

 

[NapoleonMikey]

You want to know why NASCAR gets so much hate world wide? Let's take a look. First off the car is crap. Too many regulations. The "competition" is so manufactured. All these "debris" cautions. And lucky dog? The chase? What the hell? This is racing not ball and stick sports. It's become so bastardized it's not funny. Let the drivers and the teams create the competition not the rule makers. It makes for bad racing. I'm looking at you as well IRL.
And the road courses. Drivers get other drivers to drive for them because they don't have the stones to road race. What kind of crap is that? NASCAR used to be great and I enjoyed watching it week in and week out. But now, it's become such a bastardized form of racing.
And this can be applied to about any major racing series in the US. It's a shame really. Going back to what I said earlier; what happened to innovation? What happened to people not wanting to settle for mediocrity?

im sorry i stoped reading your post after it lost all credit. really to many regulations? what about F1? what about ALMS? what about every major racing series. regulations are there for a reason to keep things competitive. now i didnt read past that part because well... your just an idiot.

***disclaimer i am not a nascar fan but i do respect the sport. i personally am a road course guy but i hate stupidity.


EDIT:decided to give your post another shot and it failed again. debris cautions. now what sport do i know that puts out a caution for debris immediately oh thats right F1. debris cautions are there to protect the drivers. you fail at life.

 

[FoolKiller]

I see a lot of people attempting to only name F1 drivers that made a move to NASCAR, but I think that getting into some of the American series will show how not easy NASCAR is in comparison.

Need I say Franchitti? The man won an IRL championship, did well in his few special stints in ALMS, and I believe he has also done the Rolex 24 at Daytona. He went back to Indy because he could not make the cut in NASCAR.

On the flipside, both Dale Earnhardt's did stints in the ALMS GT1 Corvettes. They both did well, and the last time I saw Dale Jr. do it he was the only guy on his team that could take the lead and hold it. He was also the only one who liked it better in the rain, something which NASCAR does not do.

But we could all sit here and list names of failures and success going both ways. The fact of the matter is that each series uses different cars and in many cases only certain drivers can cut it in each series. Whether it is harder or easier is purely up to the drivers. And I have a feeling many of us here will quickly learn that.

If you think any series is any easier than another then you need to re-evaluate what you think you know. And if you will just avoid racing certain cars, races, or tracks in the game because you think they will be boring or whatever then do not hope to ever be able to call yourself an all around accomplished driver/racer.

I will say this: Road racing often shows me who the best drivers are as they often win by whole laps, or large enough chunks of time to go into cruise mode. Oval racing often shows me who the better racer is as they are racing head to head into the finish often and who can handle it better wins.


All I know is that I can appreciate all racing and won't talk down any series.

 

[Northstar]

You want to know why NASCAR gets so much hate world wide? Let's take a look. First off the car is crap. Too many regulations. The "competition" is so manufactured. All these "debris" cautions. And lucky dog? The chase? What the hell? This is racing not ball and stick sports. It's become so bastardized it's not funny. Let the drivers and the teams create the competition not the rule makers. It makes for bad racing. I'm looking at you as well IRL.
And the road courses. Drivers get other drivers to drive for them because they don't have the stones to road race. What kind of crap is that? NASCAR used to be great and I enjoyed watching it week in and week out. But now, it's become such a bastardized form of racing.
And this can be applied to about any major racing series in the US. It's a shame really. Going back to what I said earlier; what happened to innovation? What happened to people not wanting to settle for mediocrity?

Wait, isn't Ferrari threatening to pull out of F1 because of the proposed rules? Also, the only teams that use different driver at road courses are smaller teams that need a good finish to stay in the top 35. The lucky dog was made because cars stopped racing back to the caution(This happened after Dale Jarret nearly got hit on the frontstretch by cars racing back to the line after he spun). The Chase was needed since the last couple championships before it was implemented were settled 3-4 races before the season.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Let the drivers and the teams create the competition not the rule makers. It makes for bad racing.

While I partly agree with you on this, NASCAR did make a rule change this weekend regarding double file re=starts, and I applaud them for making the change. Racing was SO much better.

 

[Earth]

You want to know why NASCAR gets so much hate world wide? Let's take a look. First off the car is crap. Too many regulations. The "competition" is so manufactured. All these "debris" cautions. And lucky dog? The chase? What the hell? This is racing not ball and stick sports. It's become so bastardized it's not funny. Let the drivers and the teams create the competition not the rule makers. It makes for bad racing. I'm looking at you as well IRL.
And the road courses. Drivers get other drivers to drive for them because they don't have the stones to road race. What kind of crap is that? NASCAR used to be great and I enjoyed watching it week in and week out. But now, it's become such a bastardized form of racing.
And this can be applied to about any major racing series in the US. It's a shame really. Going back to what I said earlier; what happened to innovation? What happened to people not wanting to settle for mediocrity?

You won't be laughing about the chase when Formula 1 implements the medals rule next season to decide the champion. If you ain't first, you're last or so believes Ricky Bobby and the people who run Formula 1

Stones to road race? It takes alot more stones to run 210mph in a 3-wide 14 deep pack of 43 cars separated by 3 seconds. Besides, how many drivers let the road race experts race for them? 2 or 3 at the bottom of the points trying to get into the top 35 or are already out of the top 35?

And as I mentioned earlier, your only looking at the negatives of the sport. Formula 1 and other racing series have many negatives as well

I'm not as blind to not see NASCAR's faults. I dont like the new COT. I dont like all the debris cautions. But hey, there is probably 10 things I like about the sport for everything I dont like, just as I'm sure is the same for F1 fans.

Do they like the look of the new cars? Probably not. Do they like the direction Bernie and Max have taken the series? Probably not. Do they like the proposed budget caps? Probably not. Do they like the new tracks and their design? Probably not. Do they like how Brawn GP is winning everything with a trick car? Probably not.

But do they keep watching? Yes. Because there is other things they like about the series and they dont dwell on the negatives.

All I know is that I can appreciate all racing and won't talk down any series.

👍

 

[Demon Drone]

im sorry i stoped reading your post after it lost all credit. really to many regulations? what about F1? what about ALMS? what about every major racing series. regulations are there for a reason to keep things competitive. now i didnt read past that part because well... your just an idiot.

***disclaimer i am not a nascar fan but i do respect the sport. i personally am a road course guy but i hate stupidity.


EDIT:decided to give your post another shot and it failed again. debris cautions. now what sport do i know that puts out a caution for debris immediately oh thats right F1. debris cautions are there to protect the drivers. you fail at life.

F1 and ALMS are guilty of it too. But that isn't what this topic is about. And yes they're gotten worse as well. Pretty much all of racing has dropped in quality considerably. And don't get me wrong regulations are good. But too many makes things worse. And that's the stage things are at right now in many racing series'.
And next time avoid the ad hominem attacks. Calling someone an idiot without even attempting to refute a point makes you look just as bad.

 

[Demon Drone]

You won't be laughing about the chase when Formula 1 implements the medals rule next season to decide the champion. If you ain't first, you're last or so believes Ricky Bobby and the people who run Formula 1

I have reason to believe Bernie want Formula 1 to die with him. But yes I do agree the medal system is right up there with the epic failure that is the chase.

 

[Northstar]

I have reason to believe Bernie want Formula 1 to die with him. But yes I do agree the medal system is right up there with the epic failure that is the chase.

Do you even watch NASCAR?

The Chase has produced some pretty good championship battles, in fact the largest win was by like 90 points, which is not much when you can gain 180 in one race. Hell in 2004(first year of the chase) the thing was one by 8 points, that is one position on the grid.

Is the chase perfect? No
Does it do it's intended purpose? Yes

 

[Demon Drone]

While I partly agree with you on this, NASCAR did make a rule change this weekend regarding double file re=starts, and I applaud them for making the change. Racing was SO much better.

Yeah I heard they did that. I just don't get how it wasn't thought of sooner. Just imagine 3 wide re-starts at the Indy 500!!
But the one big thing that makes it hard for me to enjoy NSCS races is the speed (or lack thereof) of the cars. But I grew up watching open wheel racing and the golden days of CART. So anything is slow compared to that.

 

[Demon Drone]

Do you even watch NASCAR?

The Chase has produced some pretty good championship battles, in fact the largest win was by like 90 points, which is not much when you can gain 180 in one race. Hell in 2004(first year of the chase) the thing was one by 8 points, that is one position on the grid.

Is the chase perfect? No
Does it do it's intended purpose? Yes

I think it's pretty obvious I don't. The thing I don't like about the chase is that it completely undermines the first half of the season. Look at Kyle Bush, he won all those races before the chase and it hardly meant anything in the end. If it wasn't for the chase I think it would be safe to say Jimmy Johnson wouldn't have that 3-peat going. It doesn't reward consistency.

 

[Northstar]

Actually Carl Edwards would have won not Kyle. Also, Ryan Newman won 8 races in 2003 and didn't win the championship(2003 was under the old system). Also the seeding in the chase is determined by regular season performance.

 

[WolfRacer543]

They have the Japan GT cars to satisfy the home crowd, WRC for the European fans, and NASCAR for North America. Looks pretty clear to me.

Whilst I kinda agree I also kinda disagree. For the most part, if you enjoy driving around a twisty track, you'll enjoy most forms of racing that involve turning in more than 1 direction, which justifies the inclusion of Japanese GT cars, WRC cars, even Australia V8 supercars. But oval racing is like a whole different niche of the motorsport market that not everyone will enjoy playing. Its like saying drag racing and bike racing is a part of motorsport so it should be included.

Get what I'm saying? Basically, if they included, for example, V8 supercars, it would be awesome for Australian players, but it wouldn't annoy anyone else because its basically just the same racing on different tracks with different touring cars. Including NASCAR may be great for the US, but there'll be plenty of people who dont like NASCAR playing the game thinking "Oh bugger, not another bloody oval track".

 

[Earth]

I think it's pretty obvious I don't. The thing I don't like about the chase is that it completely undermines the first half of the season. Look at Kyle Bush, he won all those races before the chase and it hardly meant anything in the end. If it wasn't for the chase I think it would be safe to say Jimmy Johnson wouldn't have that 3-peat going. It doesn't reward consistency.

Nope, last year Carl Edwards would have been the champion if the chase was did not exist and Kyle Busch would have finished 3rd, a massive 252 points behind Edwards if the chase did not exist

Jimmie Johnson won the chase, but if the chase did not exist Carl Edwards would have won it by just 16 points.

2007 was the only year in which the chase looked like it hurt the points leader going in. Gordon would have won it by 300+ points if not for the chase.

But hey, was it fair that the New England Patriots 18-0 season didn't matter when they lost to New York in the Super Bowl? Absolutely.

2005 and 2006 the points leader going into the chase won it.

2004 Kurt Busch would have finished 3rd in not for the chase but he won the title with the chase.

So its not like someone from 10th place has won the title every year. Also is the chase any different from the NFL's playoffs? In the NFL it doesnt matter how good you play in the start of the season, its how good you play in the end going into the playoffs. Same thing with NASCAR and the chase

 

[Studentdriver]

I think it's pretty obvious I don't [watch NASCAR].

Understatement of the thread? I think yes.

As for the points systems in the two series, well, they're both bad ideas. The Chase is not nearly as detrimental for NASCAR as medals would be for F1. In F1, only two or three teams are capable of a non-fluke win per year. A more "bare-bones" system like this would actually work better in a series like NASCAR, because there are a lot of races, and the cars and teams are very similar. Of course, I would rather they return to the pre-Chase format, with perhaps a bit larger gap in points toward the top positions.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Including NASCAR may be great for the US, but there'll be plenty of people who dont like NASCAR playing the game thinking "Oh bugger, not another bloody oval track".

Just because an "oval racer" is included in the game, doesn't mean you have to race only on "oval" tracks. I intend to take them to Grand Valley, Fuji, Suzuka, etc. PD will only include a few oval tracks anyway, so it's not like they are replacing all of the old tracks with them.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

Maybe this will show you how hard F1 cars are to drive.

I said "that's not to say an F1 car is easy to drive", meaning an F1 car isn't easy to drive.

 

[Demon Drone]

What I don't get about the inclusion of NASCAR is the fact that GT has always been about the aspect of road racing. Yet NASCAR hardly road races at all.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Gran Turismo has never been just about road racing. It's about appreciating automobiles as a whole.

 

[Chadwicksracing]

I think Nascar's biggest fall is the Chase. It is the saddest thing in the world to see Kyle Busch win so many races and not have any thing to show for it. I know you guys say Carl Edwards would have won if there was no chase system, but I disagree, I think if there was never a chase, things would have gone very differently for him.

I see the saddest thing in the world when Jeff Gordon looses another championship because of the chase system.

Jimmy Johnson is not good for our sport. It says miles for what he can do on the track. He is amazing, I never seen anything like it. But at the same time, he is ruining the concept of racing in Nascar. Just like yesterdays race, when JJ was the best for half of the race. It is great to see him struggle and not win, because that is what this sport is about. IT IS NOT EASY TO DRIVE A 500 mile race.

Nascar implements what I like to call the rubber band effect. So, the weaker teams will prevail. Double file restarts, lucky dog, restricter-plates, the chase. Mostly failures, but a lot has to do with, safety, the health of competition and the fans.

But Nascar has its great side. I see an amazing achievement when a 50 year old man can still drive in Nascar and win races. How amazing it is a watch the drivers move that 3500 pound of steel around the track. Anyone that says its easy to drive a COT is out of their mind.

You cannot say its easy to drive one unless you drive it professional.

What I don't get about the inclusion of NASCAR is the fact that GT has always been about the aspect of road racing. Yet NASCAR hardly road races at all.

Nascar Road Courses:
Infineon Raceway
Walkins Glen
Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Considering Nascar is a traditionally an oval racing series. Its like saying F1 doesn't visit enough oval tracks, when traditionally they race on circuits and road courses.

 

[FoolKiller]

What I don't get about the inclusion of NASCAR is the fact that GT has always been about the aspect of road racing. Yet NASCAR hardly road races at all.

Yet every version of GT has always had some form of Oval, even if it is just the Test Track.

Or did you never race on Twin Ring Motegi?


Some people need to go back to GT4 and re-race some of those Test Track races where the racing style was completely different from road courses. I clearly remember having to draft, and then bump draft until I was close enough to the next car so that I could carry my momentum into his draft. No amount of tuning or added power could compensate for poor strategy in those races, where many road course races could be beaten by just getting in the faster car.

 

[Studentdriver]

Agreed. Although it's not difficult in GT3 due to being excessively long (20 laps ), Like The Wind is one of the most difficult races in GT4, provided the AI doesn't gift it to you. If you don't choose the right lane going into the final turn, you could be staring down third place in an instant.

 

[TeggD]

Gran Turismo has never been just about road racing. It's about appreciating automobiles as a whole.

Exactly and thats what makes the game great. WRC and Nascar are fantastic additions. Would love to try them out.

Lets not forget how popular Daytona is in GT5P.

 

[yeti]

and then bump draft

I thought the idea was that you overtook and then you let the opposition draft past you - so that you could draft them again to catch up the front runners?

Not just run into the back of people?

C.

 

[FoolKiller]

I thought the idea was that you overtook and then you let the opposition draft past you - so that you could draft them again to catch up the front runners?

Not just run into the back of people?

C.

Depended on the race/situation. There were a few instances where I would not pass due to timing and others where I leap-frogged. And I wouldn't describe it as just running into the back of them, as that sounds like hitting them, which actually kills your momentum in GT4. You have to be gentle and make contact without being abrupt.

It may just have been me compensating though, as occasionally I would leap frog and screw it up, leaving them behind and anything I did to attempt correcting it killed my race. So I would take the bump draft approach.