Hurricane Katrina's Aftermath....

[Zardoz]

Not by a long shot. Katrina wa only a category 3 when it hit land. Granted there were still 100+ mph winds and it was a very wet hurricane, but it was still a category 3.

Andrew, in 1992, was a category 4 when it hit Florida.

What, you're measuring the scope of natural disasters by wind velocities? (For the record, it was Cat 5 when it made landfall, with winds at 160).

Nothing compares to Katrina. Nothing is even close. Watch as the toll is added up over the next few weeks. We aren't going to believe what this is going to amount to.

 

[bleurabbit7]

To get things straight, when Katrina's center hit land, it was a Cat 4 at 150mph. It is not the worst disaster to hit the U.S. However, it will be the costliest.

I saw this one particular clip of a man and his son wandering the streets, looking for his wife’s body. The poor guy was very distraught and just bawling his eyes out. He explained his situation and even the reporter interviewing him started to break down. Absolutely heartbreaking to watch…

Here we go, I found an article on him: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4197200.stm

She is a local news reporter from my home city in Mobile, AL. A very sad story indeed.

 

[P379XL]

I live above Lake Ponchartrain, about an hour north/northwest of New Orleans. We got a pretty decent hit from it. I lost power for around 30 hours...got it back yesterday I believe. Most of my town still has no power. Only one gas station is up and running, and the lines at the pumps are incredible. The grocery store is open too and being drained of goods. Lots of downed trees and poles. More than once today I've almost clipped dead lines with the mirrors of my truck trying to get around...I was in New Orleans last September...I think its a cool place...or...it was...I also was at Waveland outside of Bay St Louis in MS earlier this year. They showed what was left of that bridge out there...I remember driving over it, and some of those destroyed areas look familiar. I havent been towards Baton Rouge since the hurricane hit, but I can only imagine how packed it must be down there. Im still having a bit of a trouble grasping all this, since its in my home state and hell, its all around me and just down the road...

 

[Small_Fryz]

What was the worst natural disater to hit the US?

 

[Jordan]

I live above Lake Ponchartrain, about an hour north/northwest of New Orleans. We got a pretty decent hit from it. I lost power for around 30 hours...got it back yesterday I believe. Most of my town still has no power. Only one gas station is up and running, and the lines at the pumps are incredible. The grocery store is open too and being drained of goods. Lots of downed trees and poles. More than once today I've almost clipped dead lines with the mirrors of my truck trying to get around...I was in New Orleans last September...I think its a cool place...or...it was...I also was at Waveland outside of Bay St Louis in MS earlier this year. They showed what was left of that bridge out there...I remember driving over it, and some of those destroyed areas look familiar. I havent been towards Baton Rouge since the hurricane hit, but I can only imagine how packed it must be down there. Im still having a bit of a trouble grasping all this, since its in my home state and hell, its all around me and just down the road...

Just amazing...thank you so much for stopping by and letting us know how it's going. Would you happen to know how the St. Tammany Square area is? Our moderator, Kent is from that area and I am very concerned about his safety.

 

[P379XL]

I do know that the area was hit pretty hard, and I believe, atleast a couple days ago, people werent even allowed to get off the interstate in that area due to such extensive damage. I know that Slidell is for the most part destroyed.

I tell ya what though, I dont want to mislead ya or anything. Check these sites for information.

www.theadvocate.com
www.wafb.com
www.nola.com

Those sites are local news and information sites. They have LOTS of information on the surrounding areas. I'll keep an ear and eye out on the news for info. I watch it all day since there is basically nothing in town to do since alot of people I know left and power is out in large parts of town. Hopefully you guys here from him. If he is ok, and I feel he should be, it may be awhile until you hear from him though, as the power grids east of me are basically gone. I'll keep him in thoughts and prayers...any questions, just ask and I provide any info I can...

Later,

Chris.

 

[a6m5]

I liked what Governor Haley Barbour had to say about the looters:

"I have instructed the highway patrol and the National Guard to treat looters ruthlessly. Looting will not be tolerated and rules of engagement will be as aggressive as the law allows."

This isn't downtown Baghdad, it's not the Sudan, and it's definitely not a Mad Max movie either. This is the United States of America and we should not tolerate ridiculous behavior like this for the entire world to see.

He did say "as the law allows", right? I agree 100% with the Governor, also. 👍

What was the worst natural disater to hit the US?

Couple of google hits said it was Hurricane Andrew. If that was the case, I think Zardoz is right. Nothing will come near the overall damage Katrina's caused. Katrina scared me, I live on the other side of the country!

 

[a6m5]

Couple of google hits said it was Hurricane Andrew. If that was the case, I think Zardoz is right. Nothing will come near the overall damage Katrina's caused. Katrina scared me, I live on the other side of the country!

I was just reading about Katrina on a Japanese news site, and it mentioned a hurricane that hit Texas in 1900. It killed between 6,000-12,000 people. The article said that casualties from Katrina might reach thousands, but I doubt it will reach 6,000.

 

[Small_Fryz]

plus 6 - 12k in 1900 is much more as it wasnt as populated as today standards.

Didnt a cyclone hit a 3rd world contry bangladesh? and kill many with winds and floods and surges? I think that is the worst natral disaster

 

[Zardoz]

They're starting to talk about the long-term viability of New Orleans as an urban center now.

Sure, anything can be rebuilt, but you have to ask whether or not they should even try to get the city back to where it was. Most meteorologists seem to be of the opinion that we are entering an era of high hurricane activity. Was this just the first of many that are going to overrun the area in the next few years?

Problem is, it isn't just a matter of rebuilding residential neighborhoods. That area is an enormously important center of international shipping and trade. The ports are huge. The oil and chemical industry down there is titanic. What about all that?

This is a real dilemma, folks. You have to consider the terrible possibility that Katrina, as horrendous as it was, was just a portent of the future for that area.



(BTW, maybe this thread should be re-named to something like "Hurricane Katrina's Aftermath" or something...)

 

[Swift]

Thread renamed....

 

[FoolKiller]

plus 6 - 12k in 1900 is much more as it wasnt as populated as today standards.

Didnt a cyclone hit a 3rd world contry bangladesh? and kill many with winds and floods and surges? I think that is the worst natral disaster

I though they were saying worst in America. Bangladesh is on the other side of the planet.

When you take into account that 6,000-12,000 in 1900 was due to teh fact that they didn't know how to prepare for or even predict a hurricane it adds a different aspect to that. Katrina is disasterous in that we could see it and with all the best preperations that people took it still did this kind of damage.

Deciding the worst ever is truly a case of how you measure it. Do you measure by monetary cost? One city has a higher property value than another. Do you measure it by lives lost? Some areas have stricter buidling codes and elevation differences that can protect the people. Or do you measure it by lives affected? Not as many have died as other cases but many more have been displaced. Or do you measure it by how spread out the damage has been? Then you must consider that much of Louisianna and Mississippi have been damaged, not just the coasts. Katrina was still a cat 1 when it was in the northern sections of those states. Or do you look at the long-term effects? Entire cities have to be rebuilt, not just a few sections of one. Millions of people have been displaced and have no jobs, not to mention the trickle down burden placed on their families. Six hospitals are no longer viable. 30% of the American oil supply has been stopped. People have died, people have been displaced, tons of property has been destroyed, and even a professional sports franchise hase been displaced and may permanently leave the city(only important from the financial aspect), and entire tourism industries have been stopped.

I believe that however you judge the worst it cannot yet be determined. The only solid fact I have heard was the FEMA director saying that Katrina is worse than all four hurricanes that hit last year. Last night I saw the governor of my state (Kentucky) saying that he was sending our National Guard troops to help deploy supplies and that our hospitals would take on many of the displaced patients. Then he followed it up by saying that it was the worst natural disaster in America that he had seen in his lifetime. That is the only thing I can say about it also.

[Edit to add]

Most meteorologists seem to be of the opinion that we are entering an era of high hurricane activity. Was this just the first of many that are going to overrun the area in the next few years?

The National Hurricane Center released a statement last year which was just rereleased yesterday saying that it is all part of a cycle and we are heading into the peak of the cycle. They say that global warming has little effect, if any. People trying to grab headlines with that claim and finger pointing (Cindy Sheehan, RFK jr) can stick that in their pipes and smoke it.

Here is the story.

 

[Famine]

I have to wonder - and sorry if I offend anyone at this point (though you'd have to be easily offended) - if houses were built properly, would there be as much structural damage in the aftermath of tornadoes and hurricanes?


Time after time we see video footage of American towns - and I don't know how accurate the picture is, or how it reflects on the average US house - torn to pieces after hurricanes and tornadoes, because they're built out of wood. Wood is good because it's cheap (to buy an equivalent-sized house in the UK would cost 2-3 times as much) and easy to rebuild once flattened. But a house made out of bricks and mortar, with foundations, is capable of withstanding so much more force. What use is a cheap and easy to build/rebuild house if every time there's a hurricane, everything inside it - everything you own - is destroyed?


It's tough to compare. We don't get many big-ass storms in the UK. But the last newsworthy tornado to strike sucked the (wooden) rooftops off a street of houses in Birmingham, leaving the houses (brick) standing. In our last major hurricane in 1987, almost no structural damage was reported at all, though several trees were sucked into the sky. Granted, both of these storms were small by comparison with Katrina or Tornado Alley standards - but as I said, it's tough to compare.

The major structures of New Orleans, built with foundations and made from steel, escaped relatively unscathed, but many suburban houses were torn apart.

Would building houses out of sterner stuff have averted many of the casualties we've seen?


Mind you, no matter WHAT the construction, it doesn't help with the 600 foot hole in the sea defences surrounding a city below sea level.


And, in case anyone's forgotten, the worst natural disaster ever happened on Boxing Day last year. In the US, I've no idea what it is, though I'll have a look.

Edit: Hurricane Andrew is still on the books as "most damaging hurricane ever".

Edit edit: The Galveston Hurricane of 1900 is the deadliest hurricane to ever strike the US. Hurricane Mitch and the Great Hurricane of 1780 both killed more, but not in the US (though Mitch crossed over Florida).

 

[Max_DC]

The danger in New Orleans and the whole area was well known. As far as I know, the war against terror and protecting the US etc costed a lot of money - money that was missing for prevention of those catastrophies.

And as ususal - and we here in Germany had to deal with the same problem ( to a lower degree ) : Humans build houses in areas, where buildings shouldn't be. As for example several feet below sea level....

Honestly, I wouldn't rebuild a lot in those areas. If they do, they can wait for the next event like this. The climate is rough these days, and that won't change - at least not for the better.

Well, I don't want to start a pollution&climate discussion now, but I hope that the US government and most US inhabitants start to rethink their position towards enviromental protection now....

 

[FoolKiller]

That's why Florida has increased their building codes. After last year's hurricanes I saw a news story where they interviewed a building engineer and the new houses just needed to replace a few shingles or siding panels.

New Orleans did not have those stricter building codes and I have seen footage of brick and concrete buildings with gaping holes or collapsed walls.

Living in an area that gets a fair amount of tornadoes I can tell you that brick houses hold up better but not completely. Most people build out of wood to save money but depending on where they live will pay for it in home owner's insurance.

That said, stronger tornados can implode a building and I have seen brick not hold that back. When a tree flying at 200+ mph in a tornado hits a brick wll it falls down. I have also seen many cases where the brick held up, but then the building still has to be condemned because the structural integrity is too poor. That or your insurance company will total it for you and so you have to tear what's left down and rebuild anyway.

On a side note, some coastal areas caan't even get home owner's insurance. That seems to me that it would be a sign not to build there.

So, while you are mostly right about brick being stronger and it pays off to have it more often than not, but the odds are in your favor to not have your house ever face being destroyed. It is all about cost/benefit ratios. A guy in Florida built a dome house and it has never suffered damage from the two hurricanes it has been through, but it was too expensive for anyone else to build more like it.

However, I know what you mean and when I build my own house I fully intend to use brick. Besides they just look better, in my opinion.

 

[FoolKiller]

The danger in New Orleans and the whole area was well known. As far as I know, the war against terror and protecting the US etc costed a lot of money - money that was missing for prevention of those catastrophies.

So, the city of New Orleans is decimated by a hurricane because we are at war? It isn't as if the citizens were saying they wanted to rebuild their entire city to be more structurally sound, but teh cost of the war prevented it.

The climate is rough these days, and that won't change - at least not for the better.

Well, I don't want to start a pollution&climate discussion now, but I hope that the US government and most US inhabitants start to rethink their position towards enviromental protection now....

Did you read the article I posted? I'll take the scientists' word for it.

 

[P379XL]

Heard some news today...its seems that some of these people from New Orleans are now attempting to loot in Baton Rouge. They reported a carjacking yesterday...so now we have SWAT teams around the city and near the shelters to keep an eye on things. Im so surrounded by this stuff now. Slidell to the east, Baton Rouge west, New Orleans south. Gonna be fun times

 

[VIPFREAK]

I guess I need to do this to "vent" some how...

I ****ing hate times like these, I felt the same way in past disasters. I'm compelled to watch the news to see all the images of hardship these people are going though. I wish the newscasters and others would shut up at times. I don't know how people that are not part of this very tragic event can say "I know what your going though". That's ****ing bull ****. I'm sitting here with a roof over my head and I have all this materialistic crap around me that makes me feel better about living and because of these things I feel really guilty. When I try to ignore the tradegy and try and cheer my self up by watching something funny I feel quity but then when I watch the tradegy my negativity magnifies all the bad things going on all around and I ****ing hate it. I cannot imagine what it will be like if we had a catastrophic earthquake here on the west coast (I'm in CA) but some how I have a feeling it still won't be as bad as a disaster like Katrina.

I guess that's it because I don't know what else to say or where I'm going with this...

 

[Swift]

Heard some news today...its seems that some of these people from New Orleans are now attempting to loot in Baton Rouge. They reported a carjacking yesterday...so now we have SWAT teams around the city and near the shelters to keep an eye on things. Im so surrounded by this stuff now. Slidell to the east, Baton Rouge west, New Orleans south. Gonna be fun times

It simply enrages me that people would stoop so low at a time like this. Carjacking! Come on. I really hope anyone caught in this gets the book thrown at them.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Above that... WTH are these looter gonna do with this stuff they steal? (at least where it's really flooded) They're all in the same boat, I highly doubt anyone is gonna give a **** about buying t-shirts from a looter.

 

[P379XL]

Now, I cant say this is fact, but from what Im reading, some state workers are being sent home because its too dangerous to stay at work. Many places are supposedly being robbed at gun point, and a pharmacist shot earlier. I, to be honest, am not going anywheres if I can help it. The area is practically falling apart around us.

 

[Omnis]

Thread renamed....

I was going to do that myself.

 

[Swift]

I was going to do that myself.

Ha! I own you! Just playin man. I just wanted to get it done so people wouldn't create multiple threads.

 

[Joey D]

Wow those people are out of control down there. No wonder they aren't getting the help they need. They are opening fire on military helicopters, I'm sorry I know they are desperate, I know they are hungry and I know they want to get out of there. But desending into anarchy isn't what they need right now.

Frankly I would be scared to go in there. But you know what they should do, while its tough, they need to fly Blackhawks in there with manned guns and return fire if they are fired upon. Those who need to get out should get first prority. They need armed convoys of trucks, those big miltary convoy things with Humvee's out in front, once again returning fire if needed.

Sounds bad I know but there are people that need to get out ASAP.

 

[Pupik]

I have to wonder - and sorry if I offend anyone at this point (though you'd have to be easily offended) - if houses were built properly, would there be as much structural damage in the aftermath of tornadoes and hurricanes?

A little story about Florida:

In the early days, wood was pretty much the type of construction available. There were no railroads until the late 1980's, few ports were constructed, and thus, supplies like brick and mortar were very difficult to come by. On the other hand, there were (and still are) lots of forests in which to find wood.

Florida had a tremendous lumber industry in the time from 1880-1925; well before cattle, citrus, and tourism. Of course, deforestation and eventual cattle grazing put an end to lumber, except for the largest of sawmill companies. However, the traditional Florida home was still made of wood.

Sometime in the 1950's and 1960's, though, Florida was pelted by hurricanes left and right; nothing much greater than a Category 3 or so, but enough to cause serious damage to wood-framed houses. Towards the mid-1960's, it was becoming more useful to build a stronger concrete slab, brick, or cinder block construction (the standard here to this day) home withstand hurricane-force winds.

At this time, Florida wasn't just for rednecks and old people: It became fashionable to move here due to industries like Walt Disney World and NASA blossoming, along with all the side-jobs and related industies to serve the boom of people moving to the area. The cost of living was less expensive than most of the eastern seaboard, and younger families also came here as well.

In the mid-1970's, the housing demand soared again as people looked to squealch inflation moving to a lower-cost area; of course, home constuction companies were also looking to save money and put the homes up quicker to build more and more of them. After all, the demand was still greater than the supply...so wood-frame houses became the norm for a while.

In 1992, Hurricane Andrew singlehandedly changed the buliding codes. A ferocious Category 5 storm leveled almost every wooden buliding in its path. Now the codes stipulate it must not* be made of wood, and you can't even buy a home unless it has aluminum hurricane shutters and rails to mount them upon. (Of course, yours truly has old-fashioned Bermuda shutters that still work great, 40 years later; they open and close in about 30 seconds.)

* Sorry for the error. My wife came in the door wearing next to nothing, so my post went to bed early that night.

 

[Omnis]

My uncle's house, which was my grandma's house (and basically my whole maternal side of the family), is made from wood. they moved here about 40 years ago.

The difference with the wood houses is that the foundation is tremendously deep, which help with hurricanes and etc. The wooden housing is also the reason, obviously, why termites are such a pain in the ass down here.

New Orleans was just a disaster waiting to happen. I don't know why they built upon that city even when conscious of its situation. It should've been left a historical town or something. They've been lucky until now. And now, I guess it's time to start over.

Pupik, I think you mean they must NOT be made from wood. But you have Bermuda shutters, eh? The corny 80's sheet metal kind? that's hilarious. But, hey...more power to ya. I'd rather have bermudas or retractables than to have to work my ass off all day mounting standard ones. My uncle has STEEL shutters. STEEL. This restaurant went out of business so the storage owner had to empty their unit. My uncle snagged free shutters for the win. They almost bottomed out his Bronco, but hey....free shutters. Those things are backbreakingly heavy and annoying.

 

[Zardoz]

I've been seeing some horrendous things as I surf between MSNBC, Fox, and CNN. Some officials are going to have some explaining to do about the delays in getting help into New Orleans. If the news crews can get in, why in God's name can't the Guard, the Army, and FEMA?

How hard would it be to commandeer flatbed trucks and go to the Convention Center, for instance, and get those 20,000 people out? What is going on?

 

[a6m5]

I don't know how accurate or update this is, since I heard it from a neighbor. But he says that National Guards, Coast Guards are helping out, while nearby Army sit idly. Yeah, it's the Guards job, but this is a pretty big disaster, we're dealing with here. People's lives are on the line!

 

[Solid Lifters]

It simply enrages me that people would stoop so low at a time like this. Carjacking! Come on. I really hope anyone caught in this gets the book thrown at them.

There is a lot of carjacking going on. Not for profit, mind you, but in order to get the hell out of there.

It was very disturbing to see sick and old people dying on the streets, dependent on family members who can't do anything but scream why haven't anyone come to aid them. This is happening in America, rigtht now. Not Iraq. Not Thailand. The USA.

Proof that you can't rely on Government for anything. Schooling, safety, health care and now disaster relief and rescue. After all this, why would anybody rely on Government to do anything for you. Take note; become self-reliant.

 

[Touring Mars]

Watching the news this morning, I was glad to hear Bill Clinton saying that people should not be trying to play party politics with this incident - for the sole reason that it is not going to help anyone. Would a Kerry adminstration have done any better? Most likely not.... it's a tragedy for all those involved, particularly when the first hand accounts start to come out (as in this disturbing article on the BBC News website this morning http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4207202.stm )

It's the poor and the vunerable who were left behind during the evacuation who are now bearing the brunt of the terrible conditions in New Orleans (and the rest of the Gulf Coast region), and who knows what I'd do if I found myself in the hellish limbo that these people now find themselves in.... those who were luckily enough to be able to leave are no doubt being looked after pretty well... but those left behind are now being forced to live like animals with precious little sign that anyone is ready or able to help them.