I don't like the new physics....

[Nikked]

I love how throttle lift-off majorly effects the weight transfer of the car, particularly when using a FF car, a bit of lift of just to bring the car around the corner a bit easier.


Also, im not sure if I am imagining it or not, but on FR cars, if the suspension is at the height of its stroke, there seems to be a loss of traction on the effected tires...

 

[Sturdy]

Edit: Oversteer should be easy and natural as this.

It should indeed, if you've spent what, 15 years oversteering using the same physics model (real life in that case).

Oversteer looks so easy because those people have practiced it for years, not because it is inherently just really simple and any game that doesn't let you hold a 45 degree angle on full opposite lock and full throttle all day is just too hard and has crappy physics...

 

[Griffith500]

Have you tried using Simulation steering, no assisted steering and no power steering? Set the controller sensitivity as high as it goes and if need be crank up the FFB in game?

I use a Fanatec Elite in Slimulation mode 100% FFB on wheel 5 in game. The cars drive well and the wheel literally will try to tear your arm off at times.

I'm not looking for the wheel to tear my arms off, I'm wanting feedback!

I think GT6 is lacking in this area, at least on my G25. I messed with the controller sensitivity, but I got the impression I was running an effective steering ratio that was too low for most of the cars I was driving (that's in contrast to cars like the X2014J, or any racing car, which seem to have too high a ratio, tuned to the DS3, no doubt) so I've left it at the default. Maybe I'll try tweaking it again.

It wouldn't surprise me if the controls aren't being properly set for the wheel in game. I've turned power steering off again, feedback strength set to 2. That seems to still give the impression I'm getting some feedback (driving with no resistance is weird), but I'm not fighting the constant, delayed slap-back from every input as much.

I don't remember seeing a steering assist option, but I've not felt any interventions to that end. It feels more like SRF at times, but it's been off since day one (except when it's forced on).

 

[GTPLam]

I really hope PD updates the support for G27 because oversteer/drifting is definitely not what it used to be before like in GT5. Oversteering and drifting in GT5 (with a wheel) was 10 times more easier and manageable than it is now. In GT5 I'm able to drift regular corners but I had a really hard time linking my drifts in S-type corners. In GT6 I can't even drift a simple regular corner now because even a hint of oversteer will cause your car to snap the other way like a crazy mad rhino on the loose and making it almost impossible to save! I doubt it's anywhere close like that in real life. I wonder if T500rs users are having the same issue?

 

[sik180sx]

In no way is this guy "whining" about the physics, he just doesn't like it in the same way that I didn't like Shift 2's Physics. His opinion, get off him already.

I wasn't "on him" he clearly has a distaste for gt6 physics,his opinion,and my opinion is that he trade it in for something more to his taste.

 

[Sturdy]

In GT6 I can't even drift a simple regular corner now because even a hint of oversteer will cause your car to snap the other way like a crazy mad rhino on the loose and making it almost impossible to save!

To be fair, I found it a lot more challenging at first to not spin out when catching oversteer moments, but I've grown accustomed to it now. One thing that baffles me a little, and I haven't seen mentioned, is that it seems when you get the car very sideways, sometimes the steering goes really light as if the front wheels are locked up or off the track, and then your countersteer makes very little difference, the car just seems to float a bit. I'm getting the hang of when / how that happens and you do seem to be able to beat it with throttle inputs, but it's a very unnatural feeling to suddenly feel like you're getting catastrophic understeer when you oversteer too much?

This is with a G25 with all the aids off, like I said I haven't seen it mentioned before, but may have missed it...

 

[GTPLam]

To be fair, I found it a lot more challenging at first to not spin out when catching oversteer moments, but I've grown accustomed to it now. One thing that baffles me a little, and I haven't seen mentioned, is that it seems when you get the car very sideways, sometimes the steering goes really light as if the front wheels are locked up or off the track, and then your countersteer makes very little difference, the car just seems to float a bit. I'm getting the hang of when / how that happens and you do seem to be able to beat it with throttle inputs, but it's a very unnatural feeling to suddenly feel like you're getting catastrophic understeer when you oversteer too much?

This is with a G25 with all the aids off, like I said I haven't seen it mentioned before, but may have missed it...

Interesting. What LSD settings are you running when drifting btw? I'm still trying to find the most optimal setting but nothing seems comfortable now since GT5 LSD settings don't work in GT6 anymore

 

[stormbringer]

How can anyone feel 5 had better physics than 6?

The tyre model does need more work, but overall the driving experience is a major improvement over GT5.

 

[Griffith500]

To be fair, I found it a lot more challenging at first to not spin out when catching oversteer moments, but I've grown accustomed to it now. One thing that baffles me a little, and I haven't seen mentioned, is that it seems when you get the car very sideways, sometimes the steering goes really light as if the front wheels are locked up or off the track, and then your countersteer makes very little difference, the car just seems to float a bit. I'm getting the hang of when / how that happens and you do seem to be able to beat it with throttle inputs, but it's a very unnatural feeling to suddenly feel like you're getting catastrophic understeer when you oversteer too much?

This is with a G25 with all the aids off, like I said I haven't seen it mentioned before, but may have missed it...

Yeah, there is a definite, weird imbalance between front and rear when traveling sideways, no matter how slight. I typically drive with all aids off, including ABS.

The diff settings are mostly stock for me, although when tuning I tend to loosen it up on accel slightly over the default, which I've always done, actually, for all settings, but I find more loosening is generally "needed" in GT6. It's strange, because I get a nice balance of power-oversteer, and the outside tyre lights up first, but I can still hear the inside wheel spinning up a lot (as you'd expect of a "loose" diff). Maybe GT6 models all diffs as viscous types?

I think there's just something not right about how the subsystems are communicating, and I'm going to blame that chassis / body model again. But the force feedback on my G25 is awful, which may be the bigger problem, without which the other issues might be more tolerable. It's a shame, because I can feel the improvements, and see them in replays etc., but it just doesn't behave consistently enough for me to really get into.

 

[talkin_2_me]

First of all, I'm a stick jockey and I prefer GT6 physics to GT5, on road tires at least. Mainly because you can now actually feel some form of weight shifting and even FR cars can be unsettled now (as it is IRL).
Although, I think they overdid it with MR cars. Every MR car in the game feels looser than even the most powerful FR's, which just isn't accurate. Modern MR's from main manufacturers have built-in safety nets in form of a healthy dose of understeer to accomodate the average driver and I nerver heard a car journalist complain about the twitchyness of R8's, modern Lambos or the 458 Italia. Those cars get usually praised for their balance.

However, the handling in GT6 falls apart for me, as soon as I put on some racing tires. The analog stick feels initially unresponsive and then bites which kills any chance of some fluidity, as I always have to re-adjust my input. I've fiddled with the sensitivity numerous times now, unsuccessfully.

 

[Whitestar]

The oversteer physics in GT6 is ridiculously fake especially with a wheel compared to other sims and previous GT titles. Just a lot of fish tailing everywhere and snap oversteer that has conditioned me to not be as aggressive as I used to be. Now I'm so scared to even push my car to the point of oversteer because its almost impossible to recover a car from spinning out let alone even attempt to drift.

Edit: Oversteer should be easy and natural as this.

I took the stock 458 Italia out on Apricot yesterday and it actually seemed to behave similar to the Spider in that video. It was maybe a little more difficult to get the tail end out than in that video, and getting a consistent long slide is of course somewhat of a challenge. But I did feel like I could just "go crazy" with that car. Very fun!

To be fair, I found it a lot more challenging at first to not spin out when catching oversteer moments, but I've grown accustomed to it now. One thing that baffles me a little, and I haven't seen mentioned, is that it seems when you get the car very sideways, sometimes the steering goes really light as if the front wheels are locked up or off the track, and then your countersteer makes very little difference, the car just seems to float a bit. I'm getting the hang of when / how that happens and you do seem to be able to beat it with throttle inputs, but it's a very unnatural feeling to suddenly feel like you're getting catastrophic understeer when you oversteer too much?

This is with a G25 with all the aids off, like I said I haven't seen it mentioned before, but may have missed it...

Hmmm, I think I have felt this as well. It's certainly going to take a lot of practise to master drifting in GT6. I'm lucky enough to have a T500 wheel so I can enable Power Steering and turn the wheel as fast as humanly possible with very little resistance. But then again drifting is supposed to be smooth isn't it, and not big sudden wheel movements?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I'm not looking for the wheel to tear my arms off, I'm wanting feedback!

I think GT6 is lacking in this area, at least on my G25. I messed with the controller sensitivity, but I got the impression I was running an effective steering ratio that was too low for most of the cars I was driving (that's in contrast to cars like the X2014J, or any racing car, which seem to have too high a ratio, tuned to the DS3, no doubt) so I've left it at the default. Maybe I'll try tweaking it again.

It wouldn't surprise me if the controls aren't being properly set for the wheel in game. I've turned power steering off again, feedback strength set to 2. That seems to still give the impression I'm getting some feedback (driving with no resistance is weird), but I'm not fighting the constant, delayed slap-back from every input as much.

I don't remember seeing a steering assist option, but I've not felt any interventions to that end. It feels more like SRF at times, but it's been off since day one (except when it's forced on).

From what I hear the G25 has weaker feedback than the DFGT which has weaker feedback than the basic Fanatec which has less thazn the one I use and I use a setting of 5 with mine.

I would expect almost no FFB with a setting of 2 using a G25, try cranking it up to 10 and see how it feels then if need be turn it down to where it is comfortable.

The controller sensitivity does not seem to effect the ratio but does seem to make it feel better, I have read that it reduces input lag but I am not sure. In any case I would recommend a setting of 7.

The assisted steering is in the driving options along with the TCS ASM SRF settings.

When I stated that the wheel would try to tear my arm off I am basically referring to hitting a wall or being hit hard by another car, in other words It feels like the real thing, lots of resistance and when you hit something you definitely know it

 

[btcanon]

One thing that baffles me a little, and I haven't seen mentioned, is that it seems when you get the car very sideways, sometimes the steering goes really light as if the front wheels are locked up or off the track, and then your countersteer makes very little difference, the car just seems to float a bit. I'm getting the hang of when / how that happens and you do seem to be able to beat it with throttle inputs, but it's a very unnatural feeling to suddenly feel like you're getting catastrophic understeer when you oversteer too much?

This is with a G25 with all the aids off, like I said I haven't seen it mentioned before, but may have missed it...

I get the same thing with a DFGT. Have you ever taken a front wheel drive car to a track, or even just a back road, and gone into a corner too fast? You get the same feeling. The tires cook off, and no input you give can bring it back. This is one of the best parts of the new physics, as far as I'm concerned. We are punished a little more realistically when we cook off the tires.

 

[Sander 001]

What really helped me grasp GT6's driving model is realizing that it's quite far from real phyiscs.
Don't think of it as a simulator, think of it as a videogame with its own rules, behaviours and physics model. Since I began to play it that way, I've had much more success in golding everything, winning online races, "driving" the more difficult cars and simply having more fun.

 

[noseknows36]

What do you guys feel is the most realistic FFB setting? I personally run my G27 with FFB set to 3. I feel like anything above that is a little too dramatic. In a real car, generally speaking, you wouldn't be fighting the wheel when trying to drive which is the feeling i get when the FFB is in some of the higher settings.

 

[Stotty]

The oversteer physics in GT6 is ridiculously fake especially with a wheel compared to other sims and previous GT titles. Just a lot of fish tailing everywhere and snap oversteer that has conditioned me to not be as aggressive as I used to be. Now I'm so scared to even push my car to the point of oversteer because its almost impossible to recover a car from spinning out let alone even attempt to drift.

Edit: Oversteer should be easy and natural as this.

Although I don't disagree that significant oversteer is very difficult to manage in GT6, using a video of Chris Harris to demonstrate 'how easy drifting is' might not prove anything... Chris is way more talented than the average driver

>99.9% of people would instantly crash if they tried to drive a 458 like that

 

[Bones Brigade]

I think the physics see currently pushing the boundaries of what you could ever possibly want from a console game with a controller. It's a challenge without being impossible. I used to pay Sports Car GT with a controller and after a lot of practice I finished a race once.

The problem with the physics is that they don't seem to apply to the "ai."

 

[jr93alty]

How many of you have actually slid thru a corner in real life? Opposite lock is almost weightless and difficult to control. GT5 sucked at this. GT6 is better. Just because it isn't easy for you doesn't mean the physics suck. GT6 physics >> GT5 physics.

 

[GTPLam]

This sim is the closest I've ever seen a game come close to achieving realistic drifting physics with a FFB wheel. If only GT6 physics could be like this it would make our lives a whole heckuva lot easier especially for wheel users. The gymkhana donut hold he does at the end is so hard to replicate in GT6, even with a DS3, the longest I can go is like 2 seconds!

 

[Griffith500]

From what I hear the G25 has weaker feedback than the DFGT which has weaker feedback than the basic Fanatec which has less thazn the one I use and I use a setting of 5 with mine.

I would expect almost no FFB with a setting of 2 using a G25, try cranking it up to 10 and see how it feels then if need be turn it down to where it is comfortable.

The controller sensitivity does not seem to effect the ratio but does seem to make it feel better, I have read that it reduces input lag but I am not sure. In any case I would recommend a setting of 7.

The assisted steering is in the driving options along with the TCS ASM SRF settings.

When I stated that the wheel would try to tear my arm off I am basically referring to hitting a wall or being hit hard by another car, in other words It feels like the real thing, lots of resistance and when you hit something you definitely know it

Yeah, I tried those things, and I'm sure assisted steering would have been sub-consciously switched off for everything. If not, this might turn out to be rather embarrassing...!

I'll keep fiddling though, no point in stewing over it. No doubt once I get comfortable PD will issue a patch that fixes the FFB and all will be rosy once more - once I get used to it again, that is. At least, one can hope.

 

[MrWednesday]

One thing that baffles me a little, and I haven't seen mentioned, is that it seems when you get the car very sideways, sometimes the steering goes really light as if the front wheels are locked up or off the track, and then your countersteer makes very little difference, the car just seems to float a bit.

From what I understand, this is about right, assuming that your front wheels are sliding at this point. As you lose traction on the front wheels, you lose the self-aligning torque on the steering wheel.

 

[grog]

What do you guys feel is the most realistic FFB setting? I personally run my G27 with FFB set to 3. I feel like anything above that is a little to dramatic. In a real car, generally speaking, you wouldn't be fighting the wheel when trying to drive which is the feeling i get when the FFB is in some of the higher settings.

I'm not sure what the most realistic setting is (it probably varies by the car). I totally understand where you are coming from. I used to run 4-5 force feedback and felt like anything higher was too much. I eventually worked my way up to 10 which took some getting used to, but now that I'm used to it, I need it that strong just to feel right. Oh and by the way I've installed a small computer fan to cool my G25 so I dont feel scared to run high FFB for long periods.

Anyway I think it all comes down to personal prefference with the force feedback settings

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

What do you guys feel is the most realistic FFB setting? I personally run my G27 with FFB set to 3. I feel like anything above that is a little to dramatic. In a real car, generally speaking, you wouldn't be fighting the wheel when trying to drive which is the feeling i get when the FFB is in some of the higher settings.

Hmm that depends I guess on what kind of car you are driving, but in general it should be strong. Stronger than some wheels are capable of even when set to max. The Fanatec Elite is quite a bit stronger than any wheel I have tried and with it set to 100 on the wheel and 5 in the game it is pretty close to what I would consider real. There is a good bit of resistance to turning, the wheel snaps back nicely out of a corner and if you crash it may hurt you a bit.

My real car has power steering so it is a bit softer to turn than my Fanatec but if you hit a curb or worse it will kick you and may hurt you. Cars without power steering are stronger and will hurt you. I have saw more than one person injure or break a thumb.

I've never driven a real race car nor real race tires but I would imagine they are stiffer than any normal car and likely stiffer than most or all of the wheels cranked up to max.

So basically it you want real on something like a G27 I would set set it as high as it goes and that is as close as you will get without buying a stronger wheel

 

[Sturdy]

Few posts to answer, I gave actual 'drifting' a go last night, and it was a revelation. I had to buy a gt86/brz/frs as I felt like doing the one make race, so after that, thought I'd modify the car a little and try my hand...

General specs were 333bhp, weight at 1215kg (think just bonnet / windows), racing suspension, 85mm/105mm height, springs at 4.5/6.0, camber at 1.5/0.0 everything else stock and of course Comfort Hard tyres.

For its smallness and loads of corners, I went Autumn Ring mini, and although it took about 3 laps to get used to things, I was fairly quickly doing a pretty good job of chucking the car broadside into the first hairpin and powering it all the way around. I've never been able to do this that well in any of the previous GTs to be honest, always been more of a power oversteer kinda guy, the full on drifting bit often eluded me. The real difference now is the ability to get to that point where you're at a fixed amount of lock and balanced nicely on the throttle, the car seems much more likely to settle in that balanced position, and from there it's an absolute joy to adjust it on the steering or throttle.

Whether this car is just better balanced I don't know, but it was an absolute blast. The floaty feeling is still there if you get it really sideways, but you can generally get through that with throttle (POWEERRRR I believe is the phrase). In the replays I can see when it's happening as sometimes my front tyres are smoking, which is odd for an FR car. All I can imagine is the angle of the slide is further than the front wheels can turn, so they're slipping perhaps?

 

[Alss]

(In response to the OP)
Its people like you who like the crappy physics in GT5 who are the reason for GT5 having crappy physics. Physics are 100x better in GT6 but I assume you think that just because cars are harder to drive (more realistic...) that makes the physics worse My tip to you is to practice a more delicate driving style with certain cars you find tricky instead of complaining that its the games fault

Was that really called for.

 

[GTP_Jonjig]

Was that really called for.

yes.. roflwaffle has it bang right..

 

[side_winder_9]

I disagree, the cars, particularly the mid engined cars are much better to drive, much harder, much more realistic. I like that. I want the gran turismo series to be as realistic as the Playstation will allow.

They are doing a good job and I hope it continues this way.

 

[Spagetti69]

(In response to the OP)
Its people like you who like the crappy physics in GT5 who are the reason for GT5 having crappy physics

He's not alone though is he, in the GT5 forum there are plenty who like the physics in GT5. Actually prior to the GT6 release, the physics of GT5 was often used in great praise for the GT series.

As a side point, following on in your logic could you kindly show me the people who praise the sounds of GT, obviously they are the reason we have ended up with them.

 

[Alss]

Some of you fellas are unbelievable in the way you talk to others.

 

[f40]

More challenging/harder than GT5 no doubt, but it feels great, even on a DS3. Can't wait to spend more time tuning.