I don't like the new physics....

[huskeR32]

Some of you fellas are unbelievable in the way you talk to others.

This. Lots of this. Aren't we all here to share our love of the same game?

As for the OP:

As a Sixaxis user, I honestly don't really feel too much of a difference between GT5 and GT6. The occasional car handles a little differently than in GT5, sure, but overall, I can't really say it's required a significant change in my driving style. Of course, that may just be due to me not being a very fast driver. Those who frequent the top of the TT leaderboards may be pushing the cars harder than I ever could, exposing quirks that I never really experience?

 

[GTP_Jonjig]

Some of you fellas are unbelievable in the way you talk to others.

whats unbelievable is that a majority of the gt6 forum is people complaining about issues caused by impatience of the player to learn,
e.g
MR cars are broke.. Not in my experiance, most of my favourite cars in gt6 are MR, yes they are easy to spin, so be progressive with the throttle and they won't..
Drifting dosn't work.. Again, i was messing about in the bmw gt2, decided to stick comfort hards and drift autum ring mini.. Had a right laugh, i use pedals and i feel i had alot more throttle sensitivity than gt5, thus enabling nice controled slides ( i'm no drift master, just felt like i had more throttle control whilst changing direction than in 5)
Don't get me started on ABS '
Just be patient and practice, it will come.. (again, i'm not saying i'm a master, i just have a positive attitude towards it, i remember how bad i once was at 5)

IMO this gt is nothing but an improvement on the last, and i'm sure in a years time, when people have dealt with the fact it has changed and got used to it, haters will have forgotten to hate and we will all get along again

hell, at least they released it when they said they would, remember 5? i bought a ps3 cos gt5 was coming out that christmas, had to wait 2 years cos it kept getting pushed back! at least we have a game this time, and yes, there might be a few bugs but , it's not like thats it, PD will update it and support it just like they did with 5.. go delete your gt5 game data and have a look what its like without any updates, its a shadow of what it became..

P.D .

 

[MrWednesday]

MR cars are broke.. Not in my experiance, most of my favourite cars in gt6 are MR, yes they are easy to spin, so be progressive with the throttle and they won't..

The issue with MR cars isn't on-throttle behavior, it's that they're much twitchier off-throttle when turning in, and once they go, they're basically not coming back. Don't even think about trail braking unless you know how the car handles it. It can be rewarding when you know the car well enough to use a little bit of trail braking to help the car rotate into a turn, but a little goes a long way.

 

[GTP_Jonjig]

The issue with MR cars isn't on-throttle behavior, it's that they're much twitchier off-throttle when turning in, and once they go, they're basically not coming back. Don't even think about trail braking unless you know how the car handles it. It can be rewarding when you know the car well enough to use a little bit of trail braking to help the car rotate into a turn, but a little goes a long way.

so you find out how the car handles trail braking by..... oh yeah, practice.. you learn, your rewarded.
don't take it as sarcasm, your just backing my case!

 

[jr93alty]

The issue with MR cars isn't on-throttle behavior, it's that they're much twitchier off-throttle when turning in, and once they go, they're basically not coming back. Don't even think about trail braking unless you know how the car handles it. It can be rewarding when you know the car well enough to use a little bit of trail braking to help the car rotate into a turn, but a little goes a long way.

Go to Las Vegas and visit Exotics Racing. Then go hammer into a corner in a MR supercar or Porsche. You'll lose the rear end and they don't even let you turn the stability control off. If they did, people would be wrecking those cars every week. I haven't driven many super cars that aren't "twitchy". Racing is hard. Also, in real life, you'd never take a lot of these corners at the speeds that you do in a video game. That's why so many gamers can beat a pro's time on a track and get too confident and think they're a great driver. Things change a lot when there is a constant threat of death.

 

[TakumiFuji01]

I feel like the physics in GT6 are perfect too especially when it comes to Tuning. When you run gripper tires; you must adjust the suspension, LSD (or the whole setup itself) to reduce roll for the car UNLESS you setup your car for any tires (only experienced on my track S2000 with Sports Hard & Sports Soft). GT5 was just a "walk-in-a-park" type of physics which WASN'T BAD but GT6 improved this and made us do trial and error type for our preferences. I did hate the physics a bit due instant spinning when I tried drifting but it'll improve anyways.

 

[RACECAR]

The issue with MR cars isn't on-throttle behavior, it's that they're much twitchier off-throttle when turning in, and once they go, they're basically not coming back. Don't even think about trail braking unless you know how the car handles it. It can be rewarding when you know the car well enough to use a little bit of trail braking to help the car rotate into a turn, but a little goes a long way.

I find it quick tricky to do with the DS3. Even using the L2 and R2 buttons for brake and gas hasn't completely remedied the problem.

 

[MrWednesday]

I didn't say the behavior was wrong---I don't have any significant real-life experience driving an MR car, so I can't say either way---I just disagreed that the source of complaints about spinning MR cars was on-throttle.

As it is in GT6, it's not just MR supercars that are affected. The Toyota MR-S does it too, which is quite a change from GT5, where the car cornered like it was on rails.

 

[HKS racer]

And so far I haven't found any car that is undrivable, other than the R8 LMS. I could also say the Stratos is, but that's the point of that car; being undrivable.

No the point of the Stratos is to steer with subtle, gradual lift-off.
Steering wheel input is almost not necessary to turn the car.
It may sound weird but that's how it became one the most competitive rally cars of its era.

 

[DSUjoeDirte9]

The camper makes the car's have less grip no matter how high you turn it up though.

Hopefully they patch that.

 

[RACECAR]

No the point of the Stratos is to steer with subtle, gradual lift-off.
Steering wheel input is almost not necessary to turn the car.
It may sound weird but that's how at became one the most competitive rally cars of its era.

I always found it to be a car you steered with the throttle, at least that's what worked for me.

 

[HKS racer]

I always found it to be a car you steered with the throttle, at least that's what worked for me.

It's the only way to drive it. If you apply normal driving style you crash in a video game and die in real life.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The issue with MR cars isn't on-throttle behavior, it's that they're much twitchier off-throttle when turning in, and once they go, they're basically not coming back. Don't even think about trail braking unless you know how the car handles it. It can be rewarding when you know the car well enough to use a little bit of trail braking to help the car rotate into a turn, but a little goes a long way.

I posted this on another thread, about brake balance on cars with loose rear end, this might be one of the reasons many complain about broken/undriveable cars :

If the same value do not work well ( too much front bias in preset bias ), use rear bias instead, it will work just as good. So, for instance, you use 5/3, tried 5/5, no dice, use 0/5. Even with 0/5, the front usually will lock 1st as this does not always mean the car has rear bias

An easy method dealing with unstable rear when braking, try 10/0 balance, then 0/10, take a note of how the rear behaves + intentionally lock the wheels by applying full brake from high speed until stop ( disable ABS ). Aim to have the front tires goes red then the rear almost simultaneously for looser MR cars, this usually helped with trail braking and corner entry.

PD did not mention about this little secret that even with 0/0 brake balance, cars have preset bias ( hidden brake bias parameter unique to each car ) I think this is why some MR cars are tricky to handle, especially when braking + entering a corner, as most drivers will use front bias setup, like 5/3 . Go extreme if necessary like 1/10, the result might be surprising

Regarding high brake balance, I use DS2 stick from PS2, this little old gem is thousand times better than DS3.

And this is very informative post about how brake balance works :

The default 5,5 appears to be "stock" brake balance. So if the car has a 70% forward bias stock, setting the in-game "bias" to 5,3 reduces overall power by 20% and shifts the bias forward to 79.5%.

The "formula", should you happen to know the stock bias (and it's correct in the game), is:

B*F/5 / (B*F/5 + B'*R/5) ​

Where B is forward bias, B' it's complement (rearward bias), F and R are the bias settings in game.

For 70% stock bias, 5,3 setting: 70*(5/5) / (70*(5/5) + (100-70)*(3/5)) = 0.795..., i.e. ~79.5%
For 70% stock bias, 5,7 setting: 70*(5/5) / (70*(5/5) + (100-70)*(7/5)) = 0.625, i.e. 62.5%
For 62% stock bias, 4,2 setting: 62*(4/5) / (62*(4/5) + (100-62)*(2/5)) = 0.765..., i.e. 76.5%

So depending on whether you want a more or less forward bias than stock, sometimes you need to set the rears "stronger" than the fronts.

The bias setting does nothing outside of a race, although I'm not even sure it works online at all, so although trial and error is still king, there's not much provision for it in the game, whereas it always worked in GT5.
Is this another thing where PD think they're "balancing" online by removing the ability to adjust the bias? Seems to me if people are disabling ABS, they're going to expect that bias settings will be tuned to personal taste, and accept that they may be slower than others as a result.

Really, the existing adjustment needs to be replaced with a proper, transparent bias and overall force adjustment instead of this silly use of low-integer rational numbers nonsense. Then allow that adjustment everywhere in the game.

 

[jr93alty]

I didn't say the behavior was wrong---I don't have any significant real-life experience driving an MR car, so I can't say either way---I just disagreed that the source of complaints about spinning MR cars was on-throttle.

As it is in GT6, it's not just MR supercars that are affected. The Toyota MR-S does it too, which is quite a change from GT5, where the car cornered like it was on rails.

The behavior is correct. The term "slow in, fast out" came about because of Porsches. Rear engine plus turbo lag followed by random power surges in the old days of turbos led to easy spinning of Porsches. MR isn't much better. I've never driven a F40 in real life (not many have) but they were known for the same thing. I actually haven't even driven it yet on GT6 either but will soon as I loved that car as a young person. The common race teaching is that you don't touch the gas in a corner until you know you'll never have to come off of it again and/or you can gradually reach full throttle. Complicated corners obviously make that teaching hard to follow sometimes but the logic is good for beginners. Many beginners screw that logic up in tight hairpins and lose lots of time versus veteran drivers.

 

[GTP_Jonjig]

Right, just had a good stint in the Lambo Diablo gt2, MR drivetrain
stock, so sports hard tyres.
no aids inc. no abs (stock BB)
H shifter

Ran Silverstone National, lapping a 1.02 average .. only time I lost control was braking too late for second corner and under-steering off track.
Did Autumn ring mini, lapping 41/42's, again under-steer from pushing too hard into corner 3 was my only problem.
Matterhorn was slightly different, was losing back end down the hill on start/finish straight, so I just took it slower to avoid the spin (could have tuned suspension to cure this, but wanted to keep it stock).

I'm no way a fast driver, but I'm consistent with my laps and it seems to me that there's nothing wrong with MRs.
The only thing I can think of is, that because I'm not using ABS, I'm slowing down earlier for the corners to avoid lockup, and not leaving it till the last second means I'm not out of shape/off balance going into the corner?

 

[MrWednesday]

The only MR I've had major issues with so far is the X-Bow. I was running it with some friends online on the Silverstone GP course, and I could not consistently get it around the track. There are two or three higher-speed turns where if you take them too fast, you will get snap oversteer. It's worse if you come off the throttle, but even when I learned to keep maintenance throttle (and go harder if the back started to wash out), I still had trouble with it.

I actually haven't even driven [the Ferrari F40] yet on GT6 either but will soon as I loved that car as a young person. The common race teaching is that you don't touch the gas in a corner until you know you'll never have to come off of it again and/or you can gradually reach full throttle. Complicated corners obviously make that teaching hard to follow sometimes but the logic is good for beginners. Many beginners screw that logic up in tight hairpins and lose lots of time versus veteran drivers.

There's an F40-on-Ascari segment trial in either the license tests or the mission races, I think the mission races. Granted that it's with SRF forced on, it wasn't that bad. You needed to ease onto the throttle, and you needed to be on the throttle through the high-speed right-hander early on. I needed to be attentive with application of throttle, but I felt like the car was manageable if I treated it right. I certainly wouldn't argue with "you don't touch the gas in a corner until you know you'll never have to come off it again".

 

[lGNAl]

It's either the tire compunds or the track surfaces that could be the issue. With the tracks it's the out of track sticky asphalt, which could mean tracks physics arn't done yet. With the tires its when you slide over an angle of 35 degrees you can't hold the slide -i'm using G27-. You could end it -straighten it out- but not hold it -without aero parts-. Ofcourse when you set your car up properly in the game you can, but you have to get all your settings just exactly right. Where in real life if you were even just a decent driver you could pul it off in turns on the street with a RWD stock car straight from the dealership.

So is it a combo of track/tires physics or what !?

When I was 15 I remember drifting my 91' GMC Suburban 2 tone gold/cream with red interior lmao .. just drifting into turns and in u-turns lol but still I remember thinking -this isn't hard- ... good ol' days.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

You know when I first tried GTR2 on the PC I was using a controller with the default configuration. My initial impression was that the game looked good but I did not like the way it drove at all, I was always loosing control and going off track and such. Later I found a way to make the controller less sensitive and was able to enjoy it a bit more and actually keep the car on the track but I did not truly appreciate how good the physics were until I got a wheel and tried it again. It was much better with a wheel than with the controller as is I would imagine GT6.

It would seem better physics = harder to drive with a controller, better with a wheel

 

[lGNAl]

You know when I first tried GTR2 on the PC I was using a controller with the default configuration. My initial impression was that the game looked good but I did not like the way it drove at all, I was always loosing control and going off track and such. Later I found a way to make the controller less sensitive and was able to enjoy it a bit more and actually keep the car on the track but I did not truly appreciate how good the physics were until I got a wheel and tried it again. It was much better with a wheel than with the controller as is I would imagine GT6.

It would seem better physics = harder to drive with a controller, better with a wheel

The 1 issue with my wheel -g27- and I think most wheels is the turning circle of the wheel itself. It's not like real life. I know every car is real car different so just have it midway. I know theres a new thrusmasters -i think- that has 1050 degrees, but thrusmasters wheel I tried before was too harsh on the comeback when drifting. Nearle broke my hand using it once. If the wheels turn and feel lighter -like in real life- the game would be way better = more real = easier.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The 1 issue with my wheel -g27- and I think most wheels is the turning circle of the wheel itself. It's not like real life. I know every car is real car different so just have it midway. I know theres a new thrusmasters -i think- that has 1050 degrees, but thrusmasters wheel I tried before was too harsh on the comeback when drifting. Nearle broke my hand using it once. If the wheels turn and feel lighter -like in real life- the game would be way better = more real = easier.

In real life many if not most road cars have power steering, have you tried using that in game? I have not tried it myself but I hear it softens the steering.

I use a Fanatec Elite so I can adjust a great many things to my liking, it even has a drift mode if that is what you are into.

 

[lGNAl]

In real life many if not most road cars have power steering, have you tried using that in game? I have not tried it myself but I hear it softens the steering.

I use a Fanatec Elite so I can adjust a great many things to my liking, it even has a drift mode if that is what you are into.

How do/can I use power-steering in the game ?

 

[eSZee]

What do you guys feel is the most realistic FFB setting? I personally run my G27 with FFB set to 3. I feel like anything above that is a little too dramatic. In a real car, generally speaking, you wouldn't be fighting the wheel when trying to drive which is the feeling i get when the FFB is in some of the higher settings.

T500rs is probably 5 or 6.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

How do/can I use power-steering in the game ?

It is under the basic steering options I think, can't say for sure if it works on all wheels or not as I have never tried it myself

 

[lGNAl]

Since GT5 launched I've been playing with those options off and 1 to make it as loose as possible, and was great. But i'll try fiddling with it on GT6 and see. thanx.

 

[DirkTheDaring]

Is Op using a wheel ? With a wheel Gt6 is WAY better than Gt5. Never played either with a controller and right now my wheel is off to Fanatec with a burnt motor so no fun for me for a bit. Bummed.

 

[tfujiwara]

Low speed physics still feel weird.

 

[iLex]

I am a G27 user and don't have enough experience using a controller to comment on playing GT6 with a DS3. However, When I started playing GT6 I found that some of the information I was used to getting through the FFB on my wheel was not there.
I always liked the FFB in GT(5) because although it might not have been realistic in terms of what a steering wheel does, it did give a feeling of movement of the car or an interpretation of the g-force at work. FFB could really make you feel like you were hanging in your seat belts.
In GT6 some of this information is gone from the FFB. Instead it seems to be transferred to the sound department. The tire screech is a lot more descriptive than it was in GT5.
It really took me some time to get used to the new information I was getting, especially when interpreting understeer and oversteer. The visual/auditive/tactile hints to the behavior of the car seem to be more subtle than they were in previous games.

In general I prefer he experience in GT6 over GT5 (a lot). Cars seem to be more lively and driving on the edge is a little more scary


Oh, and I want to say I really like the way @analog presented his problems in this thread. It shows how it is possible to start a discussion about something you dislike about the game without being overly dramatic. Those who consider that whining must be new to GTP

 

[Whitestar]

You know when I first tried GTR2 on the PC I was using a controller with the default configuration. My initial impression was that the game looked good but I did not like the way it drove at all, I was always loosing control and going off track and such. Later I found a way to make the controller less sensitive and was able to enjoy it a bit more and actually keep the car on the track but I did not truly appreciate how good the physics were until I got a wheel and tried it again. It was much better with a wheel than with the controller as is I would imagine GT6.

It would seem better physics = harder to drive with a controller, better with a wheel

You may be right. I'm using a T500 and I certainly think the physics are better in GT6 than in GT5. Haven't tried using a controller.

Since GT5 launched I've been playing with those options off and 1 to make it as loose as possible, and was great. But i'll try fiddling with it on GT6 and see. thanx.

For the record the settings are: Options > Steering Controller > Steering Characteristics. Max rotation for the T500 is 1080 degrees by the way. You may find that 3 or 4 gives the best force feedback, at least on the T500 it is. They're high enough to not feel too loose, and they're low enough to avoid clipping. Here is an interesting video about force feed and clipping:

Thanks to @skazz for bringing it to my attention.

I am a G27 user and don't have enough experience using a controller to comment on playing GT6 with a DS3. However, When I started playing GT6 I found that some of the information I was used to getting through the FFB on my wheel was not there.
I always liked the FFB in GT(5) because although it might not have been realistic in terms of what a steering wheel does, it did give a feeling of movement of the car or an interpretation of the g-force at work. FFB could really make you feel like you were hanging in your seat belts.
In GT6 some of this information is gone from the FFB. Instead it seems to be transferred to the sound department. The tire screech is a lot more descriptive than it was in GT5.
It really took me some time to get used to the new information I was getting, especially when interpreting understeer and oversteer. The visual/auditive/tactile hints to the behavior of the car seem to be more subtle than they were in previous games.

In general I prefer he experience in GT6 over GT5 (a lot). Cars seem to be more lively and driving on the edge is a little more scary


Oh, and I want to say I really like the way @analog presented his problems in this thread. It shows how it is possible to start a discussion about something you dislike about the game without being overly dramatic. Those who consider that whining must be new to GTP

Totally agree with your last 3 sentences.
When it comes to the physics I feel differently though. I feel the weight of the car much better now, and find it easier to catch the car when it's about to spin out. There is just more information coming from the wheel than in GT5. Now, maintaining a drift seems to be harder than in GT5, but I suppose that's just down to practice.

Edit: By the way, power steering is great for drifting, because when activated you can turn the wheel as fast as humanly possible. At least the T500. For normal racing though I think power steering makes the wheel too loose.

 

[Syrius]

Here is an interesting video about force feed and clipping:

That was very informative, thanks for posting it. I use a T500RS wheel and have always felt that lower FF values (I have it at 4 in GT5 & GT6) worked better for me, now I know why.

On the topic, my initial gut feeling with GT6 on day one was that I could relate to the cars' responses much better than in GT5, and that impression has strengthened as I've become more familiar with GT6 and driven different cars. In my view, a good wheel and pedal set plays a big part in this 'feeling the car' and in noticing changes/improvements in the physics.

Cheers,
S.

 

[noseknows36]

You may be right. I'm using a T500 and I certainly think the physics are better in GT6 than in GT5. Haven't tried using a controller.

For the record the settings are: Options > Steering Controller > Steering Characteristics. Max rotation for the T500 is 1080 degrees by the way. You may find that 3 or 4 gives the best force feedback, at least on the T500 it is. They're high enough to not feel too loose, and they're low enough to avoid clipping. Here is an interesting video about force feed and clipping:

Thanks to @skazz for bringing it to my attention.

Totally agree with your last 3 sentences.
When it comes to the physics I feel differently though. I feel the weight of the car much better now, and find it easier to catch the car when it's about to spin out. There is just more information coming from the wheel than in GT5. Now, maintaining a drift seems to be harder than in GT5, but I suppose that's just down to practice.

Edit: By the way, power steering is great for drifting, because when activated you can turn the wheel as fast as humanly possible. At least the T500. For normal racing though I think power steering makes the wheel too loose.

The video you posted is very helpful. It really confirms my belief that running the FFB too high is just not realistic or beneficial. That's why sometimes I'm skeptical of the people who claim running the FFB at 10 is the most realistic or gives you the best feel. The strength is overpowering.