I feel GT6 will be a disappointment.

[Johnnypenso]

`

The game doesn't have to be on your system or directly competing for sales with the game you, as a developer, are creating to take some inspiration from, does it? Seriously, how complacent does a developer have to get to be like "yeah, who cares about the plethora of racing games, they aren't competition to us, any way, so let's just not look at them at all". I don't know about you, but that sort of attitude can't be good for anything. For no product there is.

I hate to break it to you but PD isn't in the business of "creating inspiration" they are in the business of making a video game to make profit. In any industry lack of competition is a recipe for complacency and lack of innovation. When someone is out for the same buck as you and survival is not guaranteed, your thinking changes, the whole way you do business changes. But when you have a captive audience, you can be whimsical, make changes that tickle your fancy instead of listening intently to the fanbase and trying to appeal to as many of them as possible. Only a blind man would not realize that PD and Kaz are obviously in the captive audience category. Many of the changes the fanbase wants like better gameplay and a better online experience, aka the core of the game, don't require a relatively huge effort or a ton of programming effort compared to new graphics and a new physics model. Why don't we get them? Complacency, stagnation, lack of competition.

When there are people like me who could possibly go out and buy a Xbox One for Forza 5/6 instead of a PS4 for GT7 if GT6 shows that PD hadn't learned much from the past 3 years, then I don't see how Forza isn't competiton. My disappointment in GT5 is what made me buy a 360 in the first place to check out Forza, thus giving more money to MS. And I'm not the only one either with this mindset:

Ironically, this post was above you.

Yes there are some people that crossover, but the install base of PS3 is what, 75 Million? That's who the game is marketed too, not the handful of people that own both or the handful that are debating buying a new console vs. sticking with GT6. History has already shown through 5 iterations of the game that they can count on 9 million sales or so. Even with all the criticism and negative feedback GT5 sold 10 million copies. That's the only feedback PD really cares about is the cash register and it rang plenty the last 3.5 years.

If that number drops to 5-7 million for GT6 you can be there will be some serious a$$ being kicked for GT7. If the number of people crossing over is 250,000 no one will even notice and nothing will change.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I hate to break it to you but PD isn't in the business of "creating inspiration" they are in the business of making a video game to make profit. In any industry lack of competition is a recipe for complacency and lack of innovation. When someone is out for the same buck as you and survival is not guaranteed, your thinking changes, the whole way you do business changes. But when you have a captive audience, you can be whimsical, make changes that tickle your fancy instead of listening intently to the fanbase and trying to appeal to as many of them as possible. Only a blind man would not realize that PD and Kaz are obviously in the captive audience category. Many of the changes the fanbase wants like better gameplay and a better online experience, aka the core of the game, don't require a relatively huge effort or a ton of programming effort compared to new graphics and a new physics model. Why don't we get them? Complacency, stagnation, lack of competition.

👍👍👍👍

Exactly why GT is no longer a guaranteed buy for me.

 

[dr_slump]

Guess what it is.

I know it's meant to be a vacuum cleaner, but whatever...

 

[MeanElf]

As they shouldn't.....Everyone wants this, or that, or the other. Heck, I'd like a few things myself that in an average gamers mind "should be an easy fix"....but you have to look at the series as any other innovative franchise whether it be games, tv, food, cars, etc...ESPECIALLY when the original creator is still involved directly. That is to say that when you create something so unique and as special as GT, you would never want to soil its roots by biting from another.... You stick to what got you there and you stick to the crowd who put you there...

Pretty much how I see it too. They have provided something that caught all of our interest in one way or another and it has been improved throughout the series. It has been said before but here goes again: fans who have emotianally invested in something, often feel that it is their game, series of books/films/TV series or comic and that they have the right to play editor over the creator. Not all, true, but too many seem to confuse 'the customer is always right' adage as carte blanche to get their wishes heard and implemented over what the creative minds who bought them the game (in this instance) would want. If anyone needs an example - just see the majority of film re-makes which are thinly disguised exuses to re-edit the original in the way they see as best. That rarely comes out well in the end.

...No, I didn't see that image. Can you point me to it?

Sorry, I did go looking for a link but with all of the traffic on the GT6 forum lately, it elludes me right now. There are several instances dotted about - a screen-shot of spoilers, body parts and rims. Unfortunately you'll just have to take my word for that or go looking yourself.

...Why would PD release a demo with no AI, or racing improvements? Aren't Demos supposed to showcase a game for those who may or may not buy the game? Right now people on the fence didn't see a reason to buy gt6, the AI, racing looked bad...

Being essentiall a Time trial event, why worry about the AI? AI has improved/changed game by game so far - wait for the full thing before judging it. This is the GT Academy TT after all, not a full game demo.

...best thing that you can say about the racing aspect of the demo is that it's a "slight inconvenience". As aforementioned by others, a demo is meant to showcase a game, so I really don't see the logic in including those races in the demo when it undermines what PD have been announcing with regards to an AI rebuild. It certainly doesn't reassure me whatsoever, and I am already on the fence regarding whether or not I will buy GT6...

I though Sumbrownkid's comment was funny, though I think you missed the point. The pre TT races were there just to give us more idea of the physics - also to allow absolutely everyone to progress to the TT. Okay, they could have put a ridiculously low bronze qualification time up there for the more casual entrants and more realistic times for silver and gold for those used to GT5 and so on - but people would complain about that, or possibly feel insulted. I thought it was a fair compomise, assuming that this is actually the case.

Or were you talking about the four sections of Silverstone? They were fun too, letting you get a good feel for the track beforehand.

 

[Luminis]

I hate to break it to you but PD isn't in the business of "creating inspiration" they are in the business of making a video game to make profit. In any industry lack of competition is a recipe for complacency and lack of innovation.

Seems like we're basically sharing the same opinion on the whole subject

I completely agree that there just is no reason for PD to actually try. All I'm saying is that that's not good for their product, in terms of quality. After all, selling well is mostly a result of popularity, not of quality. As such, I fear they're not bothered by whether they're delivering a high quality game. It's popular and will sell by virtue of its name alone, we know as much. Still annoys me, though, because I'd like to see a GT game that PD actually made in an attempt to create a game that's catering to what their audience wants.

 

[Tenacious D]

First off, strike all Microsoft games from your list. As Forza proves, Microsoft is greedy and will do anything to gouge a few more dollars out of the player's pocket. Not only do they have constant pre-order and VIP exclusive content, plus Forza Horizon's $60 season pass with time-sensetive exclusive cars, I was watching a Horizon LP at one point and the loading screens in that game constantly remind you to BUY MORE TOKENS WITH YOUR MICROSOFT POINTS! So to qualify as desperate, an MS exclusive would have to hold back half the game as pre-order content.

My example was, as I said, Shift2 Unleashed. The use of such staple cars as the Silvia and Murcielago as pre-order content doesn't really make much sense (unless you assume EA is just run by jerks) until you realize Shift2 was a horrible game and EA just wanted to sell as many of them as possible before people had a chance to find that out.

I have to say that you get no argument from me on the Microsoft aspect. As much as they try to pass themselves off as the new SEGA, at least in the gaming division, everything they do seems to be nothing but a tool to separate us from our monies, more than any business I ever saw.

Shift... well, yes and no. Just as with any serious game series, anything Need For Speed has a built in fanbase you can milk for extra cash. I didn't care for anything NFS after 3 myself, and Shift seemed to suffer chronic EA meddling, but you can't tell that to a devout fan. But really, just by the nature of anything pre-release, no one is going to know whether a game is gold or spam until it hits the shelves.

if a serious one isn't in GT5, he knows there will be an outcry, so one will probably be in GT6. Oh...

I think it's fair to say "outcries" don't always equal inclusions in the series.

Like Race Mod? Damage? And yes, with the piddling Race Mod cars we got in GT5, we did get the merest hint of liveries we could "cusomize" by plopping a paint chip into a designated area. Just like "all cars in GT5 sound like pencil sharpeners or something," PD is guilty of not doing squat by many just because they say so. But in spite of all the naysaying, Kaz has shown by doing that he's trying to give us what we want. We clamored for better sounds, we got many updated sounds in GT5. We begged for at least black frame interiors for Standard cars, we got them. We pleaded for cusomized wheels for Standards, we got them. So, does hue and cry work with PD?

Even with all the criticism and negative feedback GT5 sold 10 million copies. That's the only feedback PD really cares about is the cash register and it rang plenty the last 3.5 years.

I don't agree with this at all. Kaz has mentioned a few times how he feels a crushing burden when a Gran Turismo releases, as he's afraid it didn't meet the expectations of the fans. And from what I've learned about Japanese culture from articles and lengthy discussions with my brother's Japanese wife, they take the focus of their lives very seriously, far more than we do in the west.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Seems like we're basically sharing the same opinion on the whole subject

I completely agree that there just is no reason for PD to actually try. All I'm saying is that that's not good for their product, in terms of quality. After all, selling well is mostly a result of popularity, not of quality. As such, I fear they're not bothered by whether they're delivering a high quality game. It's popular and will sell by virtue of its name alone, we know as much. Still annoys me, though, because I'd like to see a GT game that PD actually made in an attempt to create a game that's catering to what their audience wants.

Looks like we're on the same page. I would love to see PD pull out all the stops and say, "We've got all the resources we need to incorporate the best of iRacing, Forza, PCars etc. into one game and that's what we'll do on PS4" And if they felt that by doing so the increased cost would be more than offset by the increased sales they would do it. But when you have a captive audience of diehards, sales tend to be fairly steady. You've already got all the real car enthusiasts on PS4 buying GT now, how much dazzle would a game have to have to convince the non-enthusiasts to buy the game? How much dazzle would you need to convince guys dedicated to PC gaming or Xbox to buy another console? That's what you're up against basically from a cost/benefit standpoint, and I think from PD's point of view, the numbers don't jive. Anyone who could be in for $70 is already in. Convincing people to plop down $400 to get in is a different matter altogether.

I don't agree with this at all. Kaz has mentioned a few times how he feels a crushing burden when a Gran Turismo releases, as he's afraid it didn't meet the expectations of the fans. And from what I've learned about Japanese culture from articles and lengthy discussions with my brother's Japanese wife, they take the focus of their lives very seriously, far more than we do in the west.

Talk is cheap. I'm sure Kaz feels pretty bad driving his GT-R to the bank everyday and filling his suitcase with cash. Kaz says a lot of stuff that never happens. And to be blunt, I don't care how he "feels' about anything, I care about the product in my hands. I'm not going to plop any game in, have a bad experience and say, "Oh that's ok, the guy who made the game feels bad" If you feel that bad about it, dedicate some resources to the things that fans have been crying about for 15 years, things most of us acknowledge are fairly simple, if only from the standpoint of copying what other games are doing and have done successfully. In Kaz's own opinion, ASpec is still the focus and core of the game and online is secondary. How well have they done with AI and ASpec in 15 years? Kaz "feeling bad" is just the same marketing bs you get from everyone else.

 

[mister dog]

So i wonder now; who will actually pass on buying GT6 if it turns out the AI, sounds and race formula still suck as much as it did before? This even tough the graphics and the physics are better, and the weather and day-night changes seem very appealing?

I for one will, as the only conclusion you can draw from the discussion above is; if we wanna be heard we have to voice our disappointment with our wallets.

For GT5 at first most of us couldn't understand the bad reviews it got; and we went out and bought it anyway like true fanboys. For GT6 the situation is different as many of us are already sceptic even before the game get's released.

PD better watch out because i don't think they can afford another fail, and still expect to sell millions of copies regardless.

 

[Luminis]

Looks like we're on the same page. I would love to see PD pull out all the stops and say, "We've got all the resources we need to incorporate the best of iRacing, Forza, PCars etc. into one game and that's what we'll do on PS4" And if they felt that by doing so the increased cost would be more than offset by the increased sales they would do it. But when you have a captive audience of diehards, sales tend to be fairly steady. You've already got all the real car enthusiasts on PS4 buying GT now, how much dazzle would a game have to have to convince the non-enthusiasts to buy the game? How much dazzle would you need to convince guys dedicated to PC gaming or Xbox to buy another console? That's what you're up against basically from a cost/benefit standpoint, and I think from PD's point of view, the numbers don't jive. Anyone who could be in for $70 is already in. Convincing people to plop down $400 to get in is a different matter altogether.

👍

The thing I really don't get, though, is something entirely different. PD doesn't need to cater to their audience a lot any more, as they could probably sell anything as long as the GT badge was on the cover (same as Apple, really). And yet, GT5 was one of the most expensive games in the history of video games. I therefore think that it's not purely a cost/benefit analysis that's at play here.

I don't agree with this at all. Kaz has mentioned a few times how he feels a crushing burden when a Gran Turismo releases, as he's afraid it didn't meet the expectations of the fans. And from what I've learned about Japanese culture from articles and lengthy discussions with my brother's Japanese wife, they take the focus of their lives very seriously, far more than we do in the west.

You make it sound like we should be pitying him for earning loads of cash and partaking in all sorts of race events (talk about 'taking the focus of their lives very seriously'). For crying out loud, do you honestly believe that PR talk of 'Good Guy Kazunori Yamauchi' really caring about what we think? I'd bet you a fiver he's not giving a rat's ass, just like all the other big shots in the gaming industry. The folks that truly care are the indy developers (because they have to).

Besides, I assume you wouldn't believe that Dan Greenawalt (director for Forza Motorsport) means it when he's talking about spreading the passion for cars and what not, isn't that right?

So i wonder now; who will actually pass on buying GT6 if it turns out the AI, sounds and race formula still suck as much as it did before? This even tough the graphics and the physics are better, and the weather and day-night changes seem very appealing?

Well... Initially, I had a faint hope for GT6 to rectify most, if not all, I thought was wrong with GT5. However, there's absolutely no indication it will do that. The opposite is the case, with every bit of information that's released, I'm growing more and more uneasy. We'll still be having standard cars (and I doubt most of them will look even half-decent), we'll still have the paint chip system (not even a darn colour palette, let alone a livery editor), the sounds are still going to be awful (even though the PR talk suggests otherwise), we'll still have standard and premium tracks and I'll go out on a limb and say that we're not going to get stuff like qualifying either. Sure, I still feel inclined to just go out and pick the game up. However, at this point, I feel that I shouldn't do so unless the game gets some impressive reviews. Most importantly, I'll wait for what some certain members of GTP will have to say about the game. During my stay here at GTP, I've learned who's opinion I can put my trust in.

PD better watch out because i don't think they can afford another fail, and still expect to sell millions of copies regardless.

I'd hope so, but, to be honest, I feel like they could screw GT6 beyond our wildest imagination and GT7 would still sell an easy 5+ million copies.

 

[MeanElf]

...Talk is cheap. I'm sure Kaz feels pretty bad driving his GT-R to the bank everyday and filling his suitcase with cash. Kaz says a lot of stuff that never happens. And to be blunt, I don't care how he "feels' about anything, I care about the product in my hands. I'm not going to plop any game in, have a bad experience and say, "Oh that's ok, the guy who made the game feels bad" If you feel that bad about it, dedicate some resources to the things that fans have been crying about for 15 years, things most of us acknowledge are fairly simple, if only from the standpoint of copying what other games are doing and have done successfully. In Kaz's own opinion, ASpec is still the focus and core of the game and online is secondary. How well have they done with AI and ASpec in 15 years? Kaz "feeling bad" is just the same marketing bs you get from everyone else.

Sure is.

Fans here can acknowledge that certain thing are fairly simple to implement - but I won't trust such talk until one with current game development experience states this. I know you cited copying ideas from other games as an example - but what if they don't want to do that? No matter how much people wish for it to be another this or that, if PD aren't keen on those things, then those fans who think otherwise simply will not be getting any of that. It is PD's game after all, and not something that's just now on the scene.

I suppose all I'm saying is, given the evidence, why do you still expect PD to change in this regard. It's their vision, their game and it seems to be doing pretty well for itself. Business models and ethics differ, I quite like theirs.

 

[mister dog]

Well... Initially, I had a faint hope for GT6 to rectify most, if not all, I thought was wrong with GT5. However, there's absolutely no indication it will do that. The opposite is the case, with every bit of information that's released, I'm growing more and more uneasy. We'll still be having standard cars (and I doubt most of them will look even half-decent), we'll still have the paint chip system (not even a darn colour palette, let alone a livery editor), the sounds are still going to be awful (even though the PR talk suggests otherwise), we'll still have standard and premium tracks and I'll go out on a limb and say that we're not going to get stuff like qualifying either. Sure, I still feel inclined to just go out and pick the game up. However, at this point, I feel that I shouldn't do so unless the game gets some impressive reviews. Most importantly, I'll wait for what some certain members of GTP will have to say about the game. During my stay here at GTP, I've learned who's opinion I can put my trust in.

If we would still want it for the sake of the eternal hotlapping (which you gotta admit is still fun to do), we could send a message to PD by picking up the game afterwards second hand. They won't get our sales revenue to add to their figures, and we spend a cheap buck for a half*ssed game (as it's only time trialing anyway)...👍

 

[bigspleen]

So i wonder now; who will actually pass on buying GT6 if it turns out the AI, sounds and race formula still suck as much as it did before? This even tough the graphics and the physics are better, and the weather and day-night changes seem very appealing?

I for one will, as the only conclusion you can draw from the discussion above is; if we wanna be heard we have to voice our disappointment with our wallets.

For GT5 at first most of us couldn't understand the bad reviews it got; and we went out and bought it anyway like true fanboys. For GT6 the situation is different as many of us are already sceptic even before the game get's released.

PD better watch out because i don't think they can afford another fail, and still expect to sell millions of copies regardless.

I will pass...Lots of other great games coming to spend time on.

 

[Tenacious D]

Talk is cheap. I'm sure Kaz feels pretty bad driving his GT-R to the bank everyday and filling his suitcase with cash. Kaz says a lot of stuff that never happens. And to be blunt, I don't care how he "feels' about anything, I care about the product in my hands. I'm not going to plop any game in, have a bad experience and say, "Oh that's ok, the guy who made the game feels bad" If you feel that bad about it, dedicate some resources to the things that fans have been crying about for 15 years, things most of us acknowledge are fairly simple, if only from the standpoint of copying what other games are doing and have done successfully. In Kaz's own opinion, ASpec is still the focus and core of the game and online is secondary. How well have they done with AI and ASpec in 15 years? Kaz "feeling bad" is just the same marketing bs you get from everyone else.

I think stating that Gran Turismo is a bad product because of GT5 is really getting carried away with your opinions there. As if they haven't been working on those things fans have been crying about for 15 years. I mean seriously. I would quote amar212:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5421161#post5421161

In my personal view all this negativity towards PD/GT5 is just matter of unfulfilled personal expectations.

If you look any other racing game outthere and compare it with GT5, you will find many areas where they also need major improvements. And vice-versa.

It all comes down back to this:
Many games maybe have something what Gran Turismo series does not, but no other game have what Gran Turismo series has.

And what is that "something" I can't elaborate in one forum post, but that "something" makes every single GT game in last 14 years being better than any other racing game outthere for me personally.

Is is all subjective and personal, period.

So, yeah.

For crying out loud, do you honestly believe that PR talk of 'Good Guy Kazunori Yamauchi' really caring about what we think? I'd bet you a fiver he's not giving a rat's ass, just like all the other big shots in the gaming industry. The folks that truly care are the indy developers (because they have to).

Besides, I assume you wouldn't believe that Dan Greenawalt (director for Forza Motorsport) means it when he's talking about spreading the passion for cars and what not, isn't that right?

Well, let me ask you this. Are you aware of anyone heaping praise on Dan Greenawalt as if he was some kind of philosopher king? I'll quote our own amar212 again:

https://www.gtplanet.net/celebrating-15-years-of-gran-turismo/

Thank you for everything in the past 15 years Polyphony Digital team. Thank you for your sleepless nights under the tables of the offices at Tobu Toyosu Building. Thank you for your love of cars, photography, history, French wines, Italian sceneries, American muscle cars, beauty of the nature and philosophy of human civilization. Thank you for the passion that drove you even in the hardest personal and professional moments during past 5500 days. Thank you for your unexplained commitment to stand against all criticism and always newfound strength that make all your efforts even greater.

Thank you for everything Kazunori Yamauchi and all other people who made Gran Turismo becoming reality. Thank you for everything all of you Gran Turismo players over the world. Thank you for everything all the numerous GT communities worldwide.

All of us together made one love alive.

Thank you for the 15th anniversary of the Gran Turismo.

There are a lot of us who feel that Gran Turismo is something special, that Polyphony Digital is a special group of people, that Kazunori Yamauchi is an exceptional human being. If you have a problem with how I feel, I have probably a few million behind me.

 

[HKS racer]

I know it's meant to be a vacuum cleaner, but whatever...

LOL.

And this is Turbo Stage 4.

 

[mister dog]

There are a lot of us who feel that Gran Turismo is something special, that Polyphony Digital is a special group of people, that Kazunori Yamauchi is an exceptional human being. If you have a problem with how I feel, I have probably a few million behind me.

I don't mean to insult you but this has "fanboy" written all over it

 

[Luminis]

Well, let me ask you this. Are you aware of anyone heaping praise on Dan Greenawalt as if he was some kind of philosopher king? I'll quote our own amar212 again:

No, very few people praise Greenawalt for anything. Tell you what, he could put twice the effort into Forza than Yamauchi puts into GT and I'm fairly convinced people would still slant him and elate Yamauchi to the status of a saint.

There are a lot of us who feel that Gran Turismo is something special, that Polyphony Digital is a special group of people, that Kazunori Yamauchi is an exceptional human being. If you have a problem with how I feel, I have probably a few million behind me.

Jeez, you do sound like I made fun of a holy figure, deeply entwined with your religious believes. Tell you something, what you're displaying here is... Well, it's strange, to say the least. Whether Yamauchi is devoted to the game or not, it doesn't change a thing about the product. That's the first issue I have with this. Just because he tries hard doesn't mean he's creating a great game. I can't play passion, I can't even see or here it. And I certainly can't feel GT oozing with a passion for cars if there's a tiered system in place - and a rather bad car list in place as well. In fact, I'd say that GT5 felt very sterile and completely devoid of passion. If that is what Kazunoris "hard work" amounts to, I'd say that the man has to learn to work smart, not work hard.

Also, being passionate about the game doesn't equal being passionate about delivering a great game for his audience. It just means that he's passionate about the game (if you are to believe the PR talk to a T, of course). It just sounds so naive to believe that he does what he does out of love for his fans and nothing else.

Let me ask you this: Do you believe what you're being spoon-fed about your politicians as well? You probably don't. And rightfully so. You'd probably also question similar claims by other people. You'd question similar claims if they were made by Dan Greenawalt, I bet, and you'd question similar claims if they were made by Steve Balmer and you'd probably question similar claims if they were made by Larry Probst.

Oh, and one more thing. Him having an army of devoted followers doesn't make the game great, either. In fact, I'd say that it's that group of people that's keeping the series from becoming better (which is what I am hoping for, by the way). Because PD doesn't have to try to get their sales up, they don't have to deliver a product that caters to the audience. They can do whatever they please and be sure that it'll still sell millions. They could release GT5 as it is, add a few premium models and change nothing at all, then claim that the physics have been overhauled as well as the sounds - even though neither was actually done - and half of these diehard GT fans would claim that PD did a marvellous job with GT6.

If that wasn't the case, I'd bet that GT5 wouldn't have released with PS2 cars. I honestly believe that no other developer would've dared to do that, other than PD who can rely on that army of people who are going to buy the game regardless of its quality. Same with the car sounds. Or the sub-par damage model. Things that really, really are a standard nowadays. But, thankfully, they can do their thing (however devoted Kazunori may actually be to that) and not give a damn about anything else. How's that good, I ask you? How's that good for us? For you? Does it make your game better, does it make you feel better while playing it because you believe that Kazunori slept in his office because he had to get stuff done?

Thinking about that, the marketing guys at our company are doing all-nighers as well, just to undo the horrible, horrible image we got when we basically scammed people with Leman products. Going by your logic, the folks who lost tens of thousands of Euros in the process should be loving us, right?

But, be that as it may, I'll just drop the matter. You may have the last word if you want to, Tenacious, but I feel I'd just be dragging this thread too far off-topic if I was to ramble on about this any more. Suffice to say, I have no personal connection to Yamauchi (I wonder how you guys got so close?), so I'm not really affected by his personality. And how would I?

Edit: Do you know how I've got some respect for? Hidetaka Miyazaki. Not for his personality (don't know him, so I don't care), but for making great games. Games that are made with much less than an 80 million Dollar budget, but are still superb. For making a darn good product that surprised me by exceeding my expectations, not by failing to fulfil them. And if he spent most of his time playing golf or in some red-light district, I'd say: LEt him do that again while developing the next game, it worked perfectly well!

If we would still want it for the sake of the eternal hotlapping (which you gotta admit is still fun to do), we could send a message to PD by picking up the game afterwards second hand. They won't get our sales revenue to add to their figures, and we spend a cheap buck for a half*ssed game (as it's only time trialing anyway)...👍

Hot lapping sure was fun in GT5 and I loved the 'Ring in it - if only it wasn't for the sounds. But, I suppose you're right, buying the game used would still allow me vote with my wallet (and save me a good bit of cash in the process).

 

[Ninners]

Hopefully we can get more real and exotic cars,seems unlikely,Porsche Carrera GT,Koenigsegg CCX etc,Ariel Atom.They're missing out badly on a real 'drivers' cars.

Also not full of duplicates,I discovered that GT5 only has around 600cars excluding the duplicates

 

[Luminis]

As always with Porsche, thank EA for hogging that exclusive Porsche license. Well, and Porsche for ever giving it to EA, of all companies.

 

[another_jakhole]

LOL.

And this is Turbo Stage 4.

I don't mean to insult you but this has "fanboy" written all over it

You two are special. Would you laugh if I posted a picture of Kaz smoking a cigarette with a caption saying "Me no care".

haha haha hahaha yeahhhhh


We're off the topic.

 

[Astro_BS-AS]

GT6 will be a dissapointment? Am I reading right?

I think that your life is a BIG dissapointment....

 

[MXH]

As always with Porsche, thank EA for hogging that exclusive Porsche license. Well, and Porsche for ever giving it to EA, of all companies.

Since Porsche seems to be a hopeless case, they really should give RUF more attention. CTR3, anyone?

As far as exotics go, I'd love to see more of Pagani as well.

 

[omgitsbees]

gt6 will be a dissapointment? Am i reading right?

I think that your life is a big dissapointment....

ooh man you got the original poster good with that sweet burn. Someone please get the op over to the burn unit at the nearest hospital.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

RUF has some good cars. The only Porsche I could think of that I actually would like would be the 911, or the GT3 911. But still, I don't think GT6 will be good. I still have a feeling they won't concentrate on a livery editor, something I've been looking forward to since GT4. Customization would probably be ignored, considering the fact that they brought back the paint chip system according to someone. I think damage will be looked at which isn't all that big, but I want GT6 to be as realistic as possible. The AI system would probably be fixed, and so would other placeheld things in the demo. We will see, though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I suppose all I'm saying is, given the evidence, why do you still expect PD to change in this regard. It's their vision, their game and it seems to be doing pretty well for itself. Business models and ethics differ, I quite like theirs.

Haha, what gave you the idea that I expected them to change? That's kinda my whole point, they march to their own drummer, not to the wants and needs of hardcore gamers. The game is designed to appeal to a wide audience and that's what it does. The wants and needs of those that expect or desire a hardcore sim are nearly completely meaningless in PD's eyes, that's pretty obvious. It's a game for the masses that also happens to have enough appeal to attract many wannabe sim racers and that's probably all it will ever be.

I think stating that Gran Turismo is a bad product because of GT5 is really getting carried away with your opinions there. As if they haven't been working on those things fans have been crying about for 15 years. I mean seriously. I would quote amar212:

I didn't say Gran Turismo was a bad product anywhere, never have. If you reread the example I'm guessing your referring to it says, "I'm not going to plop any game in, have a bad experience...". "Any game" is not Gran Turismo and a bad experience isn't a bad game. And no, they haven't been working on those things fans have been crying about for 15 years. They have their own agenda, their agenda is mass appeal, not appealing to sim racers. They do enough to keep the sim guys involved, but never dedicate the resources necessary to push the game over the top. You can't tell me that PD can't accomplish what iRacing achieved in terms of structure and gameplay with 10,000,000 units sold, vs. 40,000 members. They could have done it, quite easily, but chose not to. Unless of course, GT6 is full of surprises...lol.

 

[05XR8]

Kaz wants to bring back the FUN of driving to everyone that play and has played and those who have never played Gran Turismo. GT6 will be a return to that.

GT6 doesn't need/have to be "epic". It will appeal to the car lover in us all.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Kaz wants to bring back the FUN of driving to everyone that play and has played and those who have never played Gran Turismo. GT6 will be a return to that.

GT6 doesn't need/have to be "epic". It will appeal to the car lover in us all.

Agreed. I hope GT6 is as fun as GT2 with online and new features.

 

[SCER]

After playing GT Academy 2013, I definitely feel that GT6 won't be a disappointment.

1. In my opinion there's a much greater sense of speed. I found driving stock mid-range sports cars quite dull on GT5 but now I actually feel as if I'm doing 100mph through the tighter parts of the circuits rather than cruising.

2. The updated HUD looks better. It's about time it was updated and it looks good, there looks to be plenty of detailed information and I really appreciate little touches like turning the fuel gauge into a dial like you'd find in most car clusters.

3. The suspension behaviour is far more lively and interesting, and is likely to make suspension tuning far more relevant to competitive driving than it currently is. The cars are actually wallowing through the corners rather than just understeering yet staying flat, which obviously makes it easier to see
what suspension adjustments need to be made, so that's another big plus.


My main concern is with the AI drivers. I'm aware that the AI in the demo might not be representative of the final product, but I've heard people say things like that before so I'm not betting on a major AI adjustment. The current AI is absolutely terrible, and I'm really worried that this could be another game in which I have to penalise myself in order to have an enjoyable race, rather than tune the car for added competitiveness. What's the point in adjusting camber angles and Anti-roll bars if the standard settings will let you win by thirty seconds, even in a car with lower specs than the rest of the field?

 

[Luminis]

Kaz wants to bring back the FUN of driving to everyone that play and has played and those who have never played Gran Turismo. GT6 will be a return to that.

GT6 doesn't need/have to be "epic". It will appeal to the car lover in us all.

You make sound like it's 100% certain that Kazunori will pull that off (if that's what he's set out to do)

 

[MeanElf]

...And no, they haven't been working on those things fans have been crying about for 15 years. They have their own agenda, their agenda is mass appeal, not appealing to sim racers. They do enough to keep the sim guys involved, but never dedicate the resources necessary to push the game over the top. You can't tell me that PD can't accomplish what iRacing achieved in terms of structure and gameplay with 10,000,000 units sold, vs. 40,000 members. They could have done it, quite easily, but chose not to. Unless of course, GT6 is full of surprises...lol.

Maybe not to the extent that some require but it is wrong to say that some of the things that people have repeatedly asked for, have not been worked on or addressed at all.

Also, only GT5 of all the games was more geared to mass market appeal as far as I recall. GT5 certainly wasn't, nor GT4 or GT3. From reading about the first two games, I got no impression that this was the case there either. So from my recollection, only one game has gone that route in truth.

Luminis
Tell you something, what you're displaying here is... Well, it's strange, to say the least. Whether Yamauchi is devoted to the game or not, it doesn't change a thing about the product. That's the first issue I have with this. Just because he tries hard doesn't mean he's creating a great game. I can't play passion, I can't even see or here it. And I certainly can't feel GT oozing with a passion for cars if there's a tiered system in place - and a rather bad car list in place as well. In fact, I'd say that GT5 felt very sterile and completely devoid of passion. If that is what Kazunoris "hard work" amounts to, I'd say that the man has to learn to work smart, not work hard.

I don't think it's strange - the games have struck a chord with those who like them, that's all. I think you can play passion, because that is what I'm responding to when I play a GT title - the passion of it's creation has come through, become a heatbeat throughout the series. A sign of that is the quirky car list - I actually enjoy seeing which unusual cars make it into each game - but I suppose eventually, it's always going to be down to the half-full/half-empty way of looking at things.

Now, you'll probably find that strange, but it is how I feel about it.

 

[Luminis]

I don't think it's strange - the games have struck a chord with those who like them, that's all. I think you can play passion, because that is what I'm responding to when I play a GT title - the passion of it's creation has come through, become a heatbeat throughout the series. A sign of that is the quirky car list - I actually enjoy seeing which unusual cars make it into each game - but I suppose eventually, it's always going to be down to the half-full/half-empty way of looking at things.

I don't know whether I'd call that passion. See, if I imagine someone who's passionate about cars and about making a great game about cars, I don't picture that person being content with atrocious engine sounds being in his games for more than a decade. That's just an example, of course... And I don't mean to say that Kazunori is a bad person or anything. I just don't see why he's considered to be so special, because I don't see anything in his games that would make him special in my eyes. Not any more, at least.

A quirky car list isn't what I would consider a sign of passion. In fact, looking at GT's car list, I think the contrary would be the case. A list that is bolstered with near-duplicates like GT's (we don't have to argue that point, do we?) doesn't show a passion for cars or for driving. Not in my opinion. It seems more like a rather business-like approach. "How are we getting as many cars as possible into the game?" "Well, sacrificing the variety of the car list" That absolutely isn't what I imagine someone who's passionate about cars to say. GT3's car list, that's far closer to what I'd imagine to be the result of passion. "Screw the bullet points we're printing on the back of the box, here's a car list that's good and balanced, let's use this one!"

Now, you'll probably find that strange, but it is how I feel about it.

It's a deeply personal matter, so while I don't feel that way (and don't really understand where that feeling comes from, really), I'm okay with others feeling like that. It's not like I'd hate it that other folks are so attached to Kazunori or the GT franchise. The only thing that irks me is that I do think that this is, in the long run, detrimental to the quality of the series. GT selling well because people like Kazunori or because "it is Gran Turismo" isn't really helping the GT franchise to develop further.

Thing is, I feel that a lot of people would buy GT6 regardless of how good or bad it was. They simply wouldn't care. They wouldn't judge it (somewhat) objectively. They're not buying it based on how good it is as a product. As such, PD doesn't even have to try to make the game the best it could be. I'm willing to bet that they'd have thought long and hard about their approach of creating these games and we wouldn't be seeing something that's more like GT5.5 now, had GT5 not been selling as well as it did. Not to say that they're slacking off. But I think they're just sticking to their old formula, maybe throwing in a few bits here and there, and that's it. I feel as though PD should take a step back, take a good, hard look at their games and think about how they could actually make them better games, instead of just having the largest car list ever. I don't care whether it's 1,000 or 1,200 cars that sound awful and lack customization, for example. I'd rather see them cut down the list again, to, say, 350 cars that are actually varied, well done in terms of visuals, sounds, customization and such - things I'd expect someone who's passionate about cars to do.

I recently skimmed over an article over at Speedhunters, which somewhat pointed out the difference between a car and a mot (Method Of Transportation). A car is something you care about, an individual, so to speak. A mot is just one among many, many others that nobody would give a second thought to. As it stands, I feel that GT5 (and, by extension, most likely GT6) is filled with mots, not with cars. And that is what I feel PD is doing: They're creating a game about hot lapping mots on a track where others mots just happen to be. That's not quite "racing a car".

Those are my personal feelings about GT, of course. It's still a great game and much, much better than most other racing titles (if you're not looking for a proper simulator). Personally, though, I do feel that PD has somewhat lost their touch recently. They never got around to making a current-generation game, in my opinion. The game seems antiquated in terms of design and philosophy and I feel that voting with my wallet to let PD know that they've got to change things up a bit, to get back to where they were back in the day of the PS1 and PS2, is the best course of action I can take.

And while I'm at it, I'd like to explain that I do still have some sort of attachment to the Gran Turismo franchise, mostly because of the nostalgia. See, GT5 wasn't an easy pill for me to swallow and I'd drop other franchises and never give them a second look if such a drop in what I perceive as the game's quality to happen. You bet that I wouldn't give a damn about, say, Forza any more if I perceived any of the games to have dropped in quality as much. I found it much easier to just ignore Forza 5 because I dislike the Xbox One than GT6 for not meeting my expectations. There'll be a huge urge to just go out and buy a PS4 for GT7, something that Forza most likely won't do to me.

What I'm trying to say is, I don't hate Gran Turismo, quite the opposite. I just want it to be as good as possible and it won't be if I go out and buy every release in the franchise, regardless of the franchise going downhill (in my opinion). I also realise, though, that it's not GT5 that has that special feeling to it. It's just the badge on the cover. If it wasn't for the name of the game, as I said, I wouldn't care much. At all. I wouldn't be in here discussing it, I wouldn't bother to type out this sort of wall of text. It's not what PD have put on the disc that keeps me attached to the franchise, it's nostalgia. Memories of me and my dad racing Mini Coopers in GT3, it's memories of me and a close friend race modding every car we could get our hands on in GT2. But those memories are from different times, different games.

It was important for me to separate the nice memories of games that just coincidentally share the same name with Gran Turismo 5. Because they don't make the game itself better, they just remind me of why I once loved the franchise so much. But buying the subsequent Gran Turismo games for the sake of nostalgia, just to be loyal to the brand - that's not doing it for me. I can't look past the issues I'm seeing just because the older entries in the series were great. I mean, I don't consider The Godfather 3 to be a great movie just because the first two were. Same goes for GT.

A bit of a long-winded post, I know. But I thought it was important to explain that I'm not just someone hatin' on Kazunori and Gran Turismo.