I'm thinking about standard cars in GT7

[Samus]

Yep, the premium cars will be fine. That much is obvious from the photomode LOD. Standard cars, not so much.

 

[Tenacious D]

You said that in your opinion GT6 can dupe you into thinking you're watching a real race and some of your friends agree. @Zelalem disagreed and said he and his friends have never thought GT6 looked real. He gave the opposite opinion to you. I fail to see how that's acting like he's the Demi-God of Truth and Reason. If he is, you are guilty of the same.

Yes, but surely you get the point. The only opinion that matters to a certain group here are negative ones. Anything positive is met with "Oh yeah? Not really." Not only that, but there is an awful lot of derogatory posting around here, such as:

"Both are technically possible, and we might be preparing it. (Laughs)" - What Kaz said about engine swaps and a livery editor.

"Both are technically possible but we're not doing them any time soon. (Laughs at you)" - What he actually meant.

It really pollutes the environment when "truths" like this and "1200 vacuum cleaner sounds" are tolerated, but stuff which puts GT, PD or Kaz in a positive light is often challenged, even by a certain staff or two. As amar212 posted, this place is becoming a mess. And if not for some members who tend to look on the bright side, I have a feeling it would become such a downer here that you guys would get tired of bumming each other out and go do something else with your time.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes, but surely you get the point. The only opinion that matters to a certain group here are negative ones. Anything positive is met with "Oh yeah? Not really." Not only that, but there is an awful lot of derogatory posting around here, such as:

It really pollutes the environment when "truths" like this and "1200 vacuum cleaner sounds" are tolerated, but stuff which puts GT, PD or Kaz in a positive light is often challenged, even by a certain staff or two. As amar212 posted, this place is becoming a mess. And if not for some members who tend to look on the bright side, I have a feeling it would become such a downer here that you guys would get tired of bumming each other out and go do something else with your time.

I get the point that he was saying the exact same thing as you, only the mirrored version. He disagrees with you, you disagree with him, again, I fail to see the difference. Two sides of the same coin.
Amar is entitled to his opinion but it's just one opinion. The game has many flaws, focusing on the positive isn't going to make them go away, nor give PD an incentive to fix anything just because we say over and over, "You're so wonderful Kaz, the physics are so wonderful, please throw us another promised feature in the next few months..." The fans are unhappy, new features promised we were all looking forward to are slow to be realized and the game isn't selling partly because of that. People are disappointed and showing their disappointment. To expect waves of positivity in these circumstances is laughable.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think these two posts embody a problem around here.

You might have a point. You have a problem with this sort of post, right?

You=/= everyone.
A number of post =/= everyone.

...I wonder why he had that sort of attitude?

You=/= everyone.

Oh.

The problem is that, for too many people here, negative remarks and attitudes about Gran Turismo are automatically true, and anyone who actually likes the game and DARES to say anything good about it is full of wrongness. And some wonder why a few old hands have departed for saner pastures...

I'm sure the general membership here is glad that you're present to determine what is and isn't a problem. Nevermind that nothing in those two quoted posts say anything along the lines of empirical truths, or present opinions as such.

The kicker is that a lot of these arguments are purely driven by opinion. There is no empirical truth that states, "The Standards suck and are a crime against the gamingverse." But too many complainers act like there is, and even carry on at times as if everyone agrees with them.

...and yet you continue to present the opposite. Surely you're able to see the irony, that you are doing absolutely no different from those you complain about, you're merely on the other side of the same coin? You can continue to name drop other members of your choosing as some sort of non-existent evidence to back up your own arguments, but just like you said; it's driven by opinion, nothing more.

Zelalem's post above basically indicates that anyone who has an experience that differs from him and his friends is essentially fake, phony or a lie. Because no one in their right mind would be tricked into thinking a Gran Turismo replay was real world racing footage. Well, except some do.

No, that's how you blow it out of proportion to suit your arguments. Much like you've put words in my mouth before, too.

Now look. Any experience or attitude that you guys have is yours, and you're welcome to it, and to express it here. But acting like you're the demigods of Truth and Reason, and anyone who disagrees or has a different experience or attitude is some kind of dummyhead, that's really quite arrogant. Of course, there's no shortage of that on the intranets these days.

Strangely enough, the only one resorting to name-calling is you.

 

[Eric Demory]

Why are we acting like elementary students by name calling. This is a forum about a video game, not political beliefs. Calling someone out for having an opposing opinion about a video game is beyond ignorant. Whoever is doing so, you should check out the Opinions section and rage your little heart out for a reasonable situation.

To be honest, I'd be perfectly fine if at least 60% of the cars in GT7 were standards. GT5: 1000+, GT6: 1200+, GT7: ~1400+ cars. 60% of 1400= 840 standards and 560 premiums. That number is absolutely pleasing. Satisfaction would fulfill me if Polyphony Digital rendered hundreds of standards into semi-premiums. Even deleting several of tens of Miatas and Skylines that go under slightly different names, but don't look nor perform any differently, would too be great.

 

[CSLACR]

Yes, but surely you get the point. The only opinion that matters to a certain group here are negative ones. Anything positive is met with "Oh yeah? Not really." Not only that, but there is an awful lot of derogatory posting around here, such as:

It really pollutes the environment when "truths" like this and "1200 vacuum cleaner sounds" are tolerated, but stuff which puts GT, PD or Kaz in a positive light is often challenged, even by a certain staff or two. As amar212 posted, this place is becoming a mess. And if not for some members who tend to look on the bright side, I have a feeling it would become such a downer here that you guys would get tired of bumming each other out and go do something else with your time.

Have you ever considered that the reason so many of these people seem so angry is because the general consensus (meaning 2/3 or more) amongst GT diehards is that GT6 is a terrible half-assed mess of a game? (at least by GT standards)

 

[1241Penguin]

To be honest, I'd be perfectly fine if at least 60% of the cars in GT7 were standards. GT5: 1000+, GT6: 1200+, GT7: ~1400+ cars. 60% of 1400= 840 standards and 560 premiums. That number is absolutely pleasing. Satisfaction would fulfill me if Polyphony Digital rendered hundreds of standards into semi-premiums. Even deleting several of tens of Miatas and Skylines that go under slightly different names, but don't look nor perform any differently, would too be great.

GT2 (PS1): 650, GT3 (PS2): 180. Back then, PD had the common sense to drop the number of cars. Something went wrong between GT4 and GT5.

 

[Eric Demory]

Something went wrong between GT4 and GT5.

You mean focusing on GTTV and GT Academy for example? Don't get me wrong, it was cool for Polyphony Digital to go these alternative routes, but they spent way too much time on them.

GT2 (PS1): 650, GT3 (PS2): 180. Back then, PD had the common sense to drop the number of cars.

Seeing a 32bit car in a 128bit game would be awkward. But, the PS2 and PS3 are both 128bit, so it isn't that bad as you think.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Seeing a 32bit car in a 128bit game would be awkward. But, the PS2 and PS3 are both 128bit, so it isn't that bad as you think.

Both, PS2 and PS3, are 64 bits machines. Not that bits have anything to do with the quality of the assets anyway.

 

[MasamuneDate]

Both, PS2 and PS3, are 64 bits machines. Not that bits have anything to do with the quality of the assets anyway.

For real? I don't know about the PS3, but in every place I read about the PS2 it was stated that it were a 128 bit console. Even Dreamcast was a 128 bit machine. If your statement is really legit, I confess I'll be slightly disappointed with Sony.

 

[1241Penguin]

Seeing a 32bit car in a 128bit game would be awkward. But, the PS2 and PS3 are both 128bit, so it isn't that bad as you think.

The fact that I can tell the difference between GT4 cars vs GT5 cars without squinting is bad enough.

 

[Tenacious D]

Amar is entitled to his opinion but it's just one opinion. The game has many flaws, focusing on the positive isn't going to make them go away, nor give PD an incentive to fix anything just because we say over and over, "You're so wonderful Kaz, the physics are so wonderful, please throw us another promised feature in the next few months..."

Something went way over your head. I decidedly did NOT say that GT6 has no problems. I'm unaware of anyone who has said that. What I SAID was that you guys can't seem to resist dousing any good will towards GT6, PD or Kaz. How many times have I been informed here that "You can't have competitive races against these bots because they let you win every race." As if I made it up that I'd raced against he bots a number of times and lost, sometimes to fifth place. Maybe you're too busy being critical and forgot these particular board chats. And this is exactly what I'm addressing here.

Besides, you're out on a really thin branch, acting like GT5 never saw any improvements. And how long it took to reach 2.0. GT6 just recently reached its four month anniversary. No one is saying that Kaz can wrap it up and call it good, and work full bore on GT7/Prologue. Now, maybe that's close to what's going on. Maybe that's why Kaz and the SCE people are so silent lately, and we'r going to get the Ayrton Senna updates and a few more goodies. And at E3, Kaz will announce GT7 Prologue for this fall. I don't know.

I will say that I'm just too aware of how the PS3 is holding GT6 back, and I really would like to see GT7P, and GT7 itself sooner than later. I've been told that I'm the reason that Gran Turismo is in the shape it's in. I assure you guys that Kaz isn't taking pointers from me on how they should go in GT6 and 7. But a few million of us, they would. If SONY is convinced that GT6 is a losing investment, they would be smart to pull a bunch of plugs on it. Kaz would resist, he'd give us what he can, but ultimately he's an employee of SONY, and employees do what their bosses tell them to.

Strangely enough, the only one resorting to name-calling is you.

ORLY...

It's amazing that you can put so much faith in your Japanese stereotype for Kaz and PD, while alternately assuming Sony themselves are a bunch of short-sighted idiots who would have both stopped work on a PS4 GT game only to then overturn that decision a year later and stop support of GT6 to focus on GT7. If you're going to be racist, at least be consistently racist.

Memo: I didn't say that bold part, but you did call me a racist.

Have you ever considered that the reason so many of these people seem so angry is because the general consensus (meaning 2/3 or more) amongst GT diehards is that GT6 is a terrible half-assed mess of a game? (at least by GT standards)

I do believe I'm familiar with that. But why is it okay to give people here a hard time if they like things about GT6, whether it's Standard cars and tracks, gimping our cars to have a challenging race the bots, or whatever? And even making things up about their gripes, like PP to PP vacuum cleaner sounds.

Too many of you guys carry on as if we're ruining Gran Turismo unless we criticize it roundly. I would insist that gross exaggeration and demeaning posts are going to have just about everyone from PD and SONY shutting you out. And to me, that's a worse sin.

 

[Eric Demory]

For real? I don't know about the PS3, but in every place I read about the PS2 it was stated that it were a 128 bit console. Even Dreamcast was a 128 bit machine. If your statement is really legit, I confess I'll be slightly disappointed with Sony.

I would have thought the PS3 had more, but from my sources, apparently not. If the Dreamcast was 128bits, than I would imagine Sony would want to at least match that.

The fact that I can tell the difference between GT4 cars vs GT5 cars without squinting is bad enough.

For this, I have no assumption to what possibly happened here.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think that was voted Ugliest Standard Car.

I know some people here think I'm nuts for spending most of my time with the Standards, and even snapping most of my pics of them! But the greater variety is there. The majority of fun cars are there. I can't help that this is the way it is, but I don't care. Most of the standards look much better than the Suzuki above, and that's fine with me.

 

[Samus]

How many times have I been informed here that "You can't have competitive races against these bots because they let you win every race." As if I made it up that I'd raced against he bots a number of times and lost, sometimes to fifth place. Maybe you're too busy being critical and forgot these particular board chats. And this is exactly what I'm addressing here.

I've told you the problem with this defence of the AI several times but you just ignore it. That is not the only issue with the AI but it's the only one you mention so you can tell us you lost, and you claim that means you can race the AI fairly.

 

[Tenacious D]

Samus, I've also said I'm not defending the A.I. It does need to be improved. I've lamented more than a few times around here that I dislike how quickly the bots give up, and how wide the field spreads out in the course of a race. But, those of us who choose to race offline have found our methods to have fun racing in single player.

I'm ignoring nothing, but someone else is.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

For real? I don't know about the PS3, but in every place I read about the PS2 it was stated that it were a 128 bit console. Even Dreamcast was a 128 bit machine. If your statement is really legit, I confess I'll be slightly disappointed with Sony.

Oh no, don't get me started on "bits". The amount of "bits" a console would be measured hasn't been relevant since the mid 90's, as explained here.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

For real? I don't know about the PS3, but in every place I read about the PS2 it was stated that it were a 128 bit console. Even Dreamcast was a 128 bit machine. If your statement is really legit, I confess I'll be slightly disappointed with Sony.

It's just a marketing stunt.

And the ammount of bits isn't relevant to the standard cars discussion.

 

[MustangManiac]

I would have thought the PS3 had more, but from my sources, apparently not. If the Dreamcast was 128bits, than I would imagine Sony would want to at least match that.


For this, I have no assumption to what possibly happened here.

The Dreamcast was powered by a Hitachi SH4 32 bit RISC micro running at 200MHz, there are currently no 128 processors available though there are a few that have the option of running multi-word ops i.e. a 32 bit proc running 4 operations or a 64 bit proc running 2 ops simultaneously. Which has nothing to do with standard cars as others have mentioned.
Kaz is going to have to quit playing the numbers game or make a fool of himself sooner or later and I think that time is with GT7 on PS4.

 

[Samus]

Samus, I've also said I'm not defending the A.I. It does need to be improved. I've lamented more than a few times around here that I dislike how quickly the bots give up, and how wide the field spreads out in the course of a race. But, those of us who choose to race offline have found our methods to have fun racing in single player.

I'm ignoring nothing, but someone else is.

What you're ignoring with the "You can't have competitive races against these bots because they let you win every race" point is that they're talking about when you use a car that is capable of winning,If you were to drive it to or close to it's limit. There is obviously a limit to this system, an LMP car isn't going to slow to let a Miata win. If you do use a car capable of wnning the cars will slow down and let you win, there is clear evidence posted of that. You then respond again and again, telling us that isn't true, because you've lost some races as if that proves what they said is incorrect. No, all that proves is you chose a car that was just too slow and never had a chance of catching the lead car. Anyone can do that, it doesn't mean when you use a competitive car they don't slow down, because they do.



If you chose a very slow car in that above race and could only catch fifth by the end of the last lap then no, of course you wouldn't see them slowing to let you win, or at least not enough. Doesn't mean it ain't happening.

 

[Eric Demory]

Samus, I've also said I'm not defending the A.I. It does need to be improved. I've lamented more than a few times around here that I dislike how quickly the bots give up, and how wide the field spreads out in the course of a race. But, those of us who choose to race offline have found our methods to have fun racing in single player.

I'm ignoring nothing, but someone else is.

What you're ignoring with the "You can't have competitive races against these bots because they let you win every race" point is that they're talking about when you use a car that is capable of winning,If you were to drive it to or close to it's limit. There is obviously a limit to this system, an LMP car isn't going to slow to let a Miata win. If you do use a car capable of wnning the cars will slow down and let you win, there is clear evidence posted of that. You then respond again and again, telling us that isn't true, because you've lost some races as if that proves what they said is incorrect. No, all that proves is you chose a car that was just too slow and never had a chance of catching the lead car. Anyone can do that, it doesn't mean when you use a competitive car they don't slow down, because they do.



If you chose a very slow car in that above race and could only catch fifth by the end of the last lap then no, of course you wouldn't see them slowing to let you win, or at least not enough. Doesn't mean it ain't happening.

As I've noticed from the video and by experience, the AI cars always slow down when others cars come close to them to avoid collision. GT5 had a similar tactic, but they mainly slowed down when they were right behind you. In GT6, they seem to slow down when they are fifteen feet away within an 80* radius of the rear of one's car. The AI reactions have become more sensative. So can we put this argument to rest and jump back onto the subject of the thread already?

 

[Tenacious D]

After one more post.

What you're ignoring with the "You can't have competitive races against these bots because they let you win every race" point is that they're talking about when you use a car that is capable of winning,If you were to drive it to or close to it's limit. There is obviously a limit to this system, an LMP car isn't going to slow to let a Miata win. If you do use a car capable of wnning the cars will slow down and let you win, there is clear evidence posted of that. You then respond again and again, telling us that isn't true, because you've lost some races as if that proves what they said is incorrect. No, all that proves is you chose a car that was just too slow and never had a chance of catching the lead car. Anyone can do that, it doesn't mean when you use a competitive car they don't slow down, because they do.

I could play replay tag with you, but I don't have a way to record them. However, I have several replays of races I've done where the fight for the lead went down to the finish line, and the bot jumped out in front to grab it from me. I've certainly enjoyed those months of single player offline races much more than my time here arguing in circles.

Now, if you like, I can share them with you for your examination.

 

[Rich S]

Well I think either a crapload of work by Polyphony or some kind of editor so players can design their own cockpit on PS4 would be nice, for example if I am hosting an online Formula GT series maybe I can design a premium cockpit with a steering wheel that displays things on the wheel like brake bias or fuel mixture or something.

I think an editor where players can make their own engine sound would be welcome as PD certainly have not made the cut on that aspect!!! You see this in rfactor and maybe its time for PD to get on the bandwagon for giving players freedom to mod non-lincensing cars like the "PD" or "sony" cars such as the Formula GT, the prize winner cars, etc.

 

[Tornado]

Memo: I didn't say that bold part

I sure hope no one thinks to click on the link to that thread...

It's amazing that you can put so much faith in your Japanese stereotype for Kaz and PD, while alternately assuming Sony themselves are a bunch of short-sighted idiots who would have both stopped work on a PS4 GT game only to then overturn that decision a year later and stop support of GT6 to focus on GT7. If you're going to be racist, at least be consistently racist.

Yes, this is exactly what I believe. If you've ever dealt with SONY the megacorp, you might think the same thing. Ever had a SONY professional product maintained? Remember the CD DRM fiasco back in the mid 2000s?

So you didn't say the bold part. You just went out of your way to highlight the bold part so you could agree with it when it was first said, meaning it wasn't a particularly inaccurate summation of your arguments at all.








Also, either go through with your "threat" to report him or shut up about it. Playing up drama about how mean old Slip mocked you for saying racist things doesn't do yourself any favors when you absolutely and repeatedly used racist concept as proof of one of your arguments.

 

[Samus]

After one more post.


I could play replay tag with you, but I don't have a way to record them. However, I have several replays of races I've done where the fight for the lead went down to the finish line, and the bot jumped out in front to grab it from me. I've certainly enjoyed those months of single player offline races much more than my time here arguing in circles.

Now, if you like, I can share them with you for your examination.

Begs the question why you do keep coming back here to do so. Nobody is forcing you to. But yeah sure, throw up your replay files by all means.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Begs the question why you do keep coming back here to do so. Nobody is forcing you to. But yeah sure, throw up your replay files by all means.

I wouldn't mind seeing the replay data myself. Should have all the data on the screen and alternate between the leading bots and the player.

 

[Tenacious D]

Okay, how do I do it? Attach an email? Share across PSN?

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Man, I would even buy GT6 again just to see those replays...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Okay, how do I do it? Attach an email? Share across PSN?

Post it to Youtube same as the rest of the world.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Post it to Youtube same as the rest of the world.

I think that he doesn't have a capture card.

So, may I suggest export the files and upload them in a Dropbox folder?