International Event - Suzuka Expert 750 pp 00-15-30-45

[Biggles]

You're exactly right. Someone's got to win, someone's got to lose. As the saying goes it's not the destination that's important, it's enjoying the trip. Rather than giving it the big "I am" some would do well to focus a bit less on their own win records and more on having consideration for other drivers, whatever car they happen to be using.

👍👍👍

As you say: there's always going to be someone out there faster than you. The most fun is neck-to-neck racing with respectful, considerate (usually GTP) drivers & I always feel that 50% of the skill is not in the result, but in managing to complete a really close race without any of the cars punting or being punted.

 

[Hugo Boss]

If you can't get around another car easily, don't blame the car but just go for it

Yesterday I was running my tuned Vette against a GT06 with a flying but unfair Frechman behind the wheel. About the same story as Viper vs Clio. It took me 1,5 laps to get behind him and the remaining 3,5 laps I was constantly on his back. I had no chance at the straights, but passing during cornering was also far from easy. Each lap I increased the pressure by taking more risk and being closer to his rear bumper. He started to make little mistakes and at the last lap at the hairpin he missed his braking point. Finally I could properly get into his slipstream and forced him to take the defensive inside line going into Spoon. I made use of my downforce and better line and managed to get completely on the inside of him halfway Spoon. He then did a Coulthard and ended in the gravel

I was at least a second a lap faster, but instead of getting frustrated I just went for it. Most of the times I will most likely end in the gravel myself, only when you DO succeed, it just feels great

 

[The Outlaw]

The hardest car to pass appears to be the Clio/Tuned, they often ruin races by bunching everybody up after getting a high grid spot, slowing everybody down on every turn, then booting it down the straights so you can't get a run on them. Earlier PrudentBear (through no fault of his own) was going through the esses and the guys behind nearly all took each other out trying to stay behind, 4 cars nearly wrecked because of the Clio leading...

Of course Prudent went on to win because nobody could get around him despite being much faster in the overall lap.

I thought I would comment on this as I was in the races with Dragonistic and PrudentBear.

I don't think there's at all any reason in pointing fingers at PrudentBear and his Clio, nor was Drag intending to do so IMO. I can agree with Drag in that in this particular case, the Clio was ruining the race, but only because half the racers (the guys behind us) out there don't drive with respect or fear of consequence. What can you expect though, it's a video game afterall. In this particular case it was more an issues of cars that in reality wouldn't be racing in the same class, but again that's just part of the game.

When you have two cars with cornering speeds and straightline speed so differientiated it creates a lot of problems in terms of passing and bunching up of the field, especially at Suzuka where CLEAN passing oppurtunities are limited and are more based on getting a run down a straight and outbraking your opponenent. Something that is next to impossible to pull off when you have a Clio pulling a bus length on you getting onto the straight, despite being in their draft and only pushing 8/10ths going through and coming out of the corner on their ass. The bottomline is that in a real racing series with real cars, you would not have cars with that much disparity in cornering and straightline performance. PrudentBear's Clio was a good amount slower than Drag's SRT and my Mines going through the esses, where things were especially getting bottlenecked. Prudent was out front with Dragon in second and myself in third. There were about 2 other guys within attacking range of myself through the esses, who were also putting a lot of pressure on me looking for ways around, fair or not. I was only able to push about 7/10ths until I would be on Drag's bumper, while being totally defensive of my position from the overly aggresive folks behind. I've had many situations like this where I either get bumped off the road because of the closing rates, or the guy behind me will try and go up the inside of me and clip me, ruining my race for good. All because I was getting held up by the folks in front despite having a much faster pace. Basically the problem was is that the people directly behind Prudent who were getting held up (Drag and myself) were also getting attacked from behind by the people who were being overly aggressive, which is what Drag was trying to get at.

The American Le mans series was considering allowing the GT1 corvettes to run uncorked this year (unrestricted engine), but realized that this would create problems for the Prototype 1 & 2 cars. Unrestricted the Corvettes would pull away from the Prototype cars on the straights, but would end up creating havoc during braking, cornerning and any passing attempts where the P1 cars are much quicker. You can imagine the types of scenarios that would arise lap after lap, especially at a place like Suzuka where it is next to impossible to pass someone with good pace on the outside of a corner. Such reasons were why ALMS decided against allowing the Vettes to run unrestricted. The situation with Drag, Prudent and myself reminded me of this in a way.

 

[Beerz]

does that not show the skil of the driver to pick the right car for the track?

No. It shows PD screwed up on their pp calculations, even after the update.
Just hotlapping, you have a large number of cars that even with the same amount of pp, lose 3 or more seconds per lap compared to others, that's just stupid and greatly limits the variety of cars you see online.

Plus, I don't understand why certain cars like the F430, 599 and others, aren't 'allowed' to even get near 750pp, while the GT-R does it now.
It's absurd and biased.

Another thing, top speed is mostly achieved by HP and aerodynamics. The Clio has none of those in a larger amount than most other cars when tuned to 600 or 750pp, yet it kills them on a straight line.
Now that's stupid...

I'm not going after anyone here, just stating my thoughts on a few things.
Everyone should pick whatever car they want and tune it the way they want, this is just a game and people are supposed to have fun with it. 👍

 

[Benannt]

No. It shows PD screwed up on their pp calculations, even after the update.
Just hotlapping, you have a large number of cars that even with the same amount of pp, lose 3 or more seconds per lap compared to others, that's just stupid and greatly limits the variety of cars you see online.

Plus, I don't understand why certain cars like the F430, 599 and others, aren't 'allowed' to even get near 750pp, while the GT-R does it now.
It's absurd and biased.

Another thing, top speed is mostly achieved by HP and aerodynamics. The Clio has none of those in a larger amount than most other cars when tuned to 600 or 750pp, yet it kills them on a straight line.
Now that's stupid...

I'm not going after anyone here, just stating my thoughts on a few things.
Everyone should pick whatever car they want and tune it the way they want, this is just a game and people are supposed to have fun with it. 👍

I'm with you on this Beerz. The thing that kills me though, beyond what you said which is PD's problem, is people running cars well under the event PP limit to gain that advantage. The Tuned Clio is the absolute worst now. It will always start upfront and can't be caught or passed on most of the track, especially with the 5+ second advantage people get with it starting upfront. When I see known tagged drivers, especially ones who don't need the advantage, driving that car it drives me crazy.

 

[Maffski]

Well thats just it, there is two opposing mentalities on this matter...

There is those that will do whatever it takes to win and then there are those that will do whatever it takes to make the race interesting and challenging. But this happens in lots of driving games, there are always those that will only ever drive the ownage cars. In my opinion it is always better to win in an unusual car than to win in whatever flavour of the month car is currently in fashion. Besides if people only ever use the fastest possible car then they arent pushing themself to the limit and in my opinion time spent mastering slower cars and making them competitive with the big dogs is a fundamental ingredient in becoming a decent and fast driver.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Plus, I don't understand why certain cars like the F430, 599 and others, aren't 'allowed' to even get near 750pp, while the GT-R does it now.It's absurd and biased.QUOTE]

I don't agree with this part of your post. In real life it to me is exactly right, especially given that the new GTR is one of the most powerful production cars on the road. The 599 Ferrari is nothing but a GT cruiser and the Ferrari 430 is nothing but a sportier version of the 599.

 

[Biggles]

I would agree that there are some performance characteristics in GT5P that just don't seem logical. The Clio is a fun car to drive: spunky, rally-car like feel. It's odd to me that it would be fast on the straights, but slow in the turns compared to heavy, powerful cars like the Viper & Corvette.

 

[Sjaak]

When I see known tagged drivers, especially ones who don't need the advantage, driving that car it drives me crazy.

The clio is maxed out so that makes it hard to say the car is a cheat.

However I have concerns that forum members following the timetable of 10/12/15 min don't max out the PP of their cars.

We agree to race on a certain time to have clean races and some times the grid is so full of known racers, you could speak of a private room.

Whenever we have private rooms ,do we also accept that some racers lower their PP to have a better grid position?

I think 99% will answer ,no,all PP has to be the same so we all have the same chance of a good or bad grid position.

So please,it would be nice to keep your PP max if you race in times scheduled races.

 

[Biggles]

Well thats just it, there is two opposing mentalities on this matter...

There is those that will do whatever it takes to win and then there are those that will do whatever it takes to make the race interesting and challenging. But this happens in lots of driving games, there are always those that will only ever drive the ownage cars. In my opinion it is always better to win in an unusual car than to win in whatever flavour of the month car is currently in fashion. Besides if people only ever use the fastest possible car then they arent pushing themself to the limit and in my opinion time spent mastering slower cars and making them competitive with the big dogs is a fundamental ingredient in becoming a decent and fast driver.

i always drive the cars that I enjoy driving, & against 80% of the drivers that show up online on Suzuka, it's possible to win in any car as long as you stay on the track & push hard. Against the best 20% of drivers, you will be left well behind if you don't drive one of the "competitive" cars - and it's a bit pointless to be completely uncompetitive...

 

[Maffski]

So please,it would be nice to keep your PP max if you race in times scheduled races.

I agree with that, but it should be remembered that some tuning configs for some cars naturally max out at 749. eg In Lotus Elise 96 and 111R. To get 750 dead-on with those cars you'd have to mess with the Aero to do it and sacrificing aero is a major disadvantage.

i always drive the cars that I enjoy driving, & against 80% of the drivers that show up online on Suzuka, it's possible to win in any car as long as you stay on the track & push hard. Against the best 20% of drivers, you will be left well behind if you don't drive one of the "competitive" cars - and it's a bit pointless to be completely uncompetitive...

Thats dead right, but let me clarify further what I meant:-
When you see some guy winning every single race by miles time after time exclusively using the fastest car eg GTLM. Would it not be a good idea if that guy took a less omnipotent car and mixed it with the rest of the pack? It sure would be more of a challenge for him and opens the race up to more potential winners. What I'm saying is, if you start a race in the fastest car then yes you should be expected to win and its no big deal when you do, but if you can do the same in a slower car and get every last fraction of performance from it to achieve the same result is that way of winning not more of an achievement?

 

[Sjaak]

I agree with that, but it should be remembered that some tuning configs for some cars naturally max out at 749. eg In Lotus Elise 96 and 111R. To get 750 dead-on with those cars you'd have to mess with the Aero to do it and sacrificing aero is a major disadvantage.

Not a good excuse.

A major disadvantage is when you start as nummer 11 ,10 seconds behind a Elise with 749 PP.

No way you get that back because the one with 750 PP has 1 point more.

One click lower in downforce will mostly result in a click higher in the power.

 

[theewar]

i would also agree with sjaak68. but maffski i would have to disagree with you.. i now have the lotus on 750pp.. yes there is a small compromise with the aero settings.. but a man of your ability should have no problems getting to grips with the handling.

 

[Maffski]

Theewar flattery will get you everywhere

Ok ok, I consider myself officially reprimanded this whole business does remind me how flawed the whole PP system is, I'd much rather buy the parts and upgrade/tune the old way. Plus I think it would be better if the grid was decided on power/weight ratio or blatant randomness.

just tried with 1 less front wing and 1 extra power... its fine I was worried about nothing

 

[MJH]

I thought I would comment on this as I was in the races with Dragonistic and PrudentBear.

I don't think there's at all any reason in pointing fingers at PrudentBear and his Clio, nor was Drag intending to do so IMO. I can agree with Drag in that in this particular case, the Clio was ruining the race, but only because half the racers (the guys behind us) out there don't drive with respect or fear of consequence.

You can't blame PrudentBear and/or his clio for ruining the race, when the problem wasn't him at all, but other drivers driving dirty. Was PrudentBear driving dirty?

PrudentBear and/or his clio are no more to blame for ruining races than Dragonistic, timeattack07gt and any other driver and car.

If we can blame clio drivers for choosing a car thats slower through corners and faster on the straights, then we can also blame drivers for ruining races that choose cars which are faster through the corners and slower on the straights.

 

[Biggles]

I would agree that there are some performance characteristics in GT5P that just don't seem logical. The Clio is a fun car to drive: spunky, rally-car like feel. It's odd to me that it would be fast on the straights, but slow in the turns compared to heavy, powerful cars like the Viper & Corvette.

Does anybody have a comment on this?

With regard to the PP: I don't like being at the front & being chased around the track the entire race. I would much rather be at the back & (hopefully) work my way up to the front. The problem is when some of the fastest drivers set their PP to start at the front & are then completely uncatchable - not interesting for anyone in the race.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

You can't blame PrudentBear and/or his clio for ruining the race, when the problem wasn't him at all, but other drivers driving dirty. Was PrudentBear driving dirty?

PrudentBear and/or his clio are no more to blame for ruining races than Dragonistic, timeattack07gt and any other driver and car.

If we can blame clio drivers for choosing a car thats slower through corners and faster on the straights, then we can also blame drivers for ruining races that choose cars which are faster through the corners and slower on the straights.

There is becoming a stigma attached to the Clio because it is the choice of childrish punters. Prudent Bear is more than capable of driving that car competitively.

 

[RaWRespect]

Ok, i need some help with something. I hear here, and i see on the races that the moest fast people drive a GT LM Spec II am i right ?

I just bought the damn thing But i realy don't get this car trew some corners, can someone help me with some settings or something (tips ?).

GrimReaper i saw you, that is the reason why i was beeing a noob. But i got outta the way when you lapped me

Please help !

Marco / RaWRespect

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Ok, i need some help with something. I hear here, and i see on the races that the moest fast people drive a GT LM Spec II am i right ?

I just bought the damn thing But i realy don't get this car trew some corners, can someone help me with some settings or something (tips ?).

GrimReaper i saw you, that is the reason why i was beeing a noob. But i got outta the way when you lapped me

Please help !

Marco / RaWRespect

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=107354

Click the link you will then be in RVT (Dragonistics) Tunning page scroll down a little bit and select the 750pp GT LM.

This is by far the best tune I have come across for this car. It litterally runs on rails through corners (as you saw). Very little practice to master the car with this tune.

cheers Grim (aka Jamie)

P.S. I hadnt won a race until today I have had three so far today and I am consistently running in the top half of the timings.

 

[RaWRespect]

You're the best man, i will try it tomorrow i think Tomorrow school again. And i will put the GTP_ tag on to...

Very much THANKS !

Marco / RaWRespect

 

[The Grim Reaper]

You're the best man, i will try it tomorrow i think Tomorrow school again. And i will put the GTP_ tag on to...

Very much THANKS !

Marco / RaWRespect

Spend an hour on the free run to get used to it. You will only need gears 1 to 4 so sellecting the right gears for corners is paramount.

Also I arent one of the faster guys on here. I dread to think what some of those guys could do with this setting, epsecially as I am using the sixaxis.

 

[PSTC555]

Theewar flattery will get you everywhere

Ok ok, I consider myself officially reprimanded this whole business does remind me how flawed the whole PP system is, I'd much rather buy the parts and upgrade/tune the old way. Plus I think it would be better if the grid was decided on power/weight ratio or blatant randomness.

just tried with 1 less front wing and 1 extra power... its fine I was worried about nothing

I say whats wrong with the good BHP regulations of old? I find PP points useless if your car is significantly weaker in BHP terms despite equivalent PP. Cars with an aerodynamic set up at the cost of speed only makes up like half to 2 seconds on the corners in tracks like Suzuka but gets blitzed on the straight with cars tuned purely based for speed. I tend to find myself in a cycle sometimes with people tuning their cars with crazy top speed but lack of grip, spin off the track due to lack of control and get to come back ahead of a consistant driver who rarely makes a mistake but gets punished because of the lack of horsepower, especially with the presence of the RBE which just kills any advantage of consistency for the underdog.

 

[Dragonistic]

You can't blame PrudentBear and/or his clio for ruining the race, when the problem wasn't him at all, but other drivers driving dirty. Was PrudentBear driving dirty?

PrudentBear and/or his clio are no more to blame for ruining races than Dragonistic, timeattack07gt and any other driver and car.

If we can blame clio drivers for choosing a car thats slower through corners and faster on the straights, then we can also blame drivers for ruining races that choose cars which are faster through the corners and slower on the straights.

I dont blame prudent (i did say through no fault of his own at one point)

My point is it created a hostile situation for us, a slow accelerating fast cornering car will easily be passed on a straight and cause no hassle in the danger areas on turns, the opposite will cause maximum disruption in the turns then no hassle on the straights. I was stabbing at the Clio because I've had the same problem happen twice where im put in danger because of the slowness through the turns, the most notable happened to be when Prudent was behind the wheel. It was just such a dangerous race for the guys behind because there was no chance to get away from the lesser considerate driver.

This would be absolutely fine in a private room, but in the public ones we have it's just so frustrating. I don't expect this to change peoples car choice, but they should be aware of the problems it can cause for people behind, and im worried Clio users will be in harms way if someone considerate isn't behind.

 

[LinPark]

What kind of times are you guys turning in these 5 lap races - I want to make sure I'm competitive before I turn into another Dragonistic obstacle.

I'm gonna use one of his tunes to protect myself just in case. 👍

 

[PSTC555]

I have to give credit to KimiHASaFerrari for good racing in his Amuse S2000, can't say the same for NISSMAN and Amir...had an awful race.

 

[Dragonistic]

What kind of times are you guys turning in these 5 lap races - I want to make sure I'm competitive before I turn into another Dragonistic obstacle.

I'm gonna use one of his tunes to protect myself just in case. 👍

no-ones an obstacle, if someones slower then me, they're a challenge to overtake, if someones faster, they're one to catch. I want close clean racing not to win.

I run high 1:57s in my Viper (my main car) others around 1:58-59 average.

However my GTLM (which i rarely use) will run 1:55s. All times from free run.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

What kind of times are you guys turning in these 5 lap races - I want to make sure I'm competitive before I turn into another Dragonistic obstacle.

I'm gonna use one of his tunes to protect myself just in case. 👍

I am running Dragonistics GT LM tune and turning 2:00 mins during races on average. That is just enough to be competitive for the lead of most races.

 

[PSTC555]

no-ones an obstacle, if someones slower then me, they're a challenge to overtake, if someones faster, they're one to catch. I want close clean racing not to win.

I run high 1:57s in my Viper (my main car) others around 1:58-59 average.

However my GTLM (which i rarely use) will run 1:55s. All times from free run.

Dragonistic don't take this the wrong way but I always felt under the impression that when we appear in the same race, I seem to inconvenience you with my slower tuned Evo X so you have to take risks to clear me out of the way quickly. I tuned the car for control and stability rather than straight line speed (486bhp, I like things under 500bhp - don't know why!) so almost the whole 750pp grid can out run me in the straight.

In truth I felt really bad for that, I can't remember the full details but it was the time when you weren't impressed with a GTLM driver who brakes checks you. Seeing your post I decided to check out the race myself and ended up in the same race after. It was a scrappy race at some parts, but I saw you battled the grid with your White Viper. Due to my low PP I tend to start the front in hope to clear the first corner asap, so by the time we reach Spoon you already caught up with me. I had a yellow Amuse S2000 diving on the inside for Spoon corner very quickly, knew I was going to lose the battle I took a wider line and slowed when necessary. I think from past experiences you know my weak straight line speed so you decided to gamble and followed the Amuse's line as well as you since you were close behind it. I decided to brake earlier to give you the space and time to enter Spoon cleanly as I felt too scared to inconvenience you any further.

So does that mean that you're not miffed with me for having a purposely slower car?

 

[Dragonistic]

Not all, because you've always gave room when neccessary but i think you have me confused, my Viper is clearly red (see my avatar) I don't mind people using slow cars or slow drivers. I don't mean that in my ranting, it just slow cars that are impossible to pass that have miffed me off. I've raced your Evo before and you know when you have the right to defend, and when you're best off leaving room, i respect that largely.

I also dont remember this incident you speak of.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Watch out for "ashdtv (US) in a green lotus". First Class punter.

Come across him earlier and had trouble, then I have just watched him blatantly shoving a GTRP member of the track for the lead. the lad has talent and tbh does not need to do this.