Is GT7 fast becoming the worst of the GT Series?

[TCR_Raskal]

Content is average but I can live with that. It's the terrible force feedback for the fanatec dd1 that is stopping me playing it. There is no real feel and it feels dead in high speed corners. I've spent hours playing with the settings but it still feels dead!

"Feels dead in high speed corners". 💯 agree. Stupid thing is the workaround I had when they nerfed the wheels had plenty of mid corner feedback, it's actually far worse now.

I jumped into my first league event the other night, and the lag difference between the different consoles made it almost unplayable.

I don't see PD truly fixing the multiplayer simply because those of us who regularly race online against other players only make up about 3% of the total player base. I'm thankful for the few updates they did just add, don't get me wrong.

But mixing the PS5 with the older gen platforms was NEVER going to work. I've also heard from more than one source that many of the games issues, including lack of content are related to the fact the decision to make it available on PS4/Pro as well was made relatively late in the development process.

They should have just left it a PS5 exclusive as originally promised, but PD don't seem to care about keeping promises. They also explicitly stated GT7 would have ALL the lobby features Sport had. Add on the economy changing just after launch andit being reviewed , as well as not revealing MTX to the reviewers...PD simply can't be trusted.

 

[Ferrari Enthusi]

In my opinion the last complete & thoroughly enjoyable Gran Turismo was GT4. I still have so many fond memories from that series. None of which have been overwritten or have come anywhere close to being matched in the subsequent games. GT7 was the hope that they were finally going back to those roots of pre GT5 games but other than some soundtracks & some of the cars, it isn't really anywhere close... Truly heartbreaking & disappointing. I still play but it feels a bit robotic at this point, not exactly as joyous as it is supposed to be considering what Gran Turismo stood for, what Gran Turismo meant, especially to the fans.

 

[SPOOLMAN]

I have no idea what happened to GT7 but after the latest few patches the game has gone back to feeling sterile with reduced sense of speed. Almost similar to GT Sport.

What's happened!?

 

[sh33p]

Fair enough I misunderstood what you were saying.



Anyway, the nail in the coffin for me is always gameplay, and this has nothing new. It's lesser than it's predecessor. It brings nothing new going back all the way to GT3.

GTSport gave us the DR/SR/Pentaly system - Love it or hate it, it changed things.
GT6 gave us Quick Race, the predecessor to Sport mode.
GT5 gave us online
GT4 gave us B-Spec

Collecting isn't game play.

You forgot

GT7 - Music Rally!

(please note - I think this mode is a joke and should never of been included)

 

[Samus]

Alarm Bells were definitely ringing when we got the State of Play deep dive and the only new features they promoted were Music Rally and Music Replay.

 

[imported_rik19]

Weird how gran turismo 4 and forza motorsport 4 seem to be the best titles, that`s all people talk about, to be honest they are great, i can still play them...They should just remaster them...

 

[Cayit]

Maybe PD will unleash the GT League(career mode) in sometime because a lot of players asking for it...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Weird how gran turismo 4 and forza motorsport 4 seem to be the best titles, that`s all people talk about, to be honest they are great, i can still play them...They should just remaster them...

In my opinion the last complete & thoroughly enjoyable Gran Turismo was GT4. I still have so many fond memories from that series. None of which have been overwritten or have come anywhere close to being matched in the subsequent games. GT7 was the hope that they were finally going back to those roots of pre GT5 games but other than some soundtracks & some of the cars, it isn't really anywhere close... Truly heartbreaking & disappointing. I still play but it feels a bit robotic at this point, not exactly as joyous as it is supposed to be considering what Gran Turismo stood for, what Gran Turismo meant, especially to the fans.

GT4 came out in a different time period. Offline career came without the mirror of online racing to compare against.

Some people get frustrated by online racing, but offline is not racing at all. Racing requires opponents who all compete at their best to win. AI will never do that, no matter what, it's always faked or the player will always lose.

For those who enjoy single player, GT7 has plenty of single player and it will (likely) have a full slate over the next few years.

They say "never meet your heroes". If they remastered GT4, I think there would be a mass awakening.

 

[Imari]

But mixing the PS5 with the older gen platforms was NEVER going to work.

It was never going to work with Polyphony. They struggle to get a stable, fully-featured game working on a single hardware configuration. But there's plenty of other games that work just fine over multiple hardware configurations, including PC games where basically every player has a different setup. Getting a game running over three hardware configs (PS5/PS4P/PS4) should not be a challenge for a competent studio.

Some people get frustrated by online racing, but offline is not racing at all. Racing requires opponents who all compete at their best to win. AI will never do that, no matter what, it's always faked or the player will always lose.

That's just not true. An AI can be trying it's best within it's limitations, just as a player is trying their best within their limitations. All human players aren't Lewis Hamilton, just as all AI opponents aren't Sophy. Just because someone (human or AI) isn't the best in the world doesn't mean that they're not trying their best to win.

As long as the AI is only reacting to the player via racecraft and not modulating it's speed to let the player catch up/get ahead, then I think it's as legitimate an opponent as any other. Polyphony's AI is obviously pretty garbage, but there is absolutely AI out there that will have similar racecraft to a respectful human opponent and that will not hand you wins if you're too slow or if you mess up.

 

[Voodoovaj]

...

As long as the AI is only reacting to the player via racecraft and not modulating it's speed to let the player catch up/get ahead, then I think it's as legitimate an opponent as any other. Polyphony's AI is obviously pretty garbage, but there is absolutely AI out there that will have similar racecraft to a respectful human opponent and that will not hand you wins if you're too slow or if you mess up.

The example that I know best is FPS AI. (Note, I am simplifying this because I don't want to write a white paper here). Without deviation (in the guns and the AI), the AI can kill-shot 100% of the time without fail and it's pretty much unbeatable. So, a vision cone, a type of eye sight, is built in, so it ignores things that it can't "see". It's detection range is limited to approximate hearing. Guns have deviation that's the same for everyone, but the AI is given additional deviation to replicate bad players. The AI has to be made to be worse or it's just frustrating. It's never like a person.

That's where I am coming from. No matter how well it's masked, AI always needs something built in to allow it to be defeated, and that (to me) removes the element of competition. To some, it's all the same, and that's fine. So, I hear what you are saying, and I agree that if done correctly, it doesn't really matter.

Edit - I don't want to get too long winded or too deep into this, because to each his own.

I did a GTSport Toyota Tundra race a few weeks back. I started from the back. HUGE pile up in the first corner (which took out many of the better players). I passed everyone in the subsequent laps, and lost in the very last corner thanks to being bumped off. I thought at the time that it was pretty much like the single player experience. The point being that racing real people can be worse than the current GT AI.

Conversely, I just did a Race C. I consider myself halfway decent (DR A). My Q time is 1:43.3, I'm essentially 4000th in the world. I'm near the bottom of my friends list. The top guys are 3 seconds faster than I am. Now, Imagine if the AI was "doing it's best" and three seconds faster than the best you could manage. Personally, I am amazed that people are 3 seconds faster than I am. I don't know where I am losing time, surely not three seconds worth of time!! To me, that lap is as perfect as can be, but, I have to face the facts that this is the reality of my skill level versus other real racers.

However, if the AI did this, we'd all say that the game is broken.

but this is all off topic.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Good AI is like a good DM, throwing you a challenge without wiping you out. AI must be beatable, but also has to keep challenging you. GT7 AI will both wipe you out and give you the win far too easily, failing on both accounts.

PD can't even get matchmaking to work, matching people with similar skills which is a simple matter of measuring how fast each player is on the track. So no surprise the AI is terrible, it acts on the same on/off behavior as everything else PD touches.

Anyway I say the game is broken, putting me against drivers that are 3 sec per lap faster. With only 16 players in the room and all the A+ I get sorted with my DR is very slow to go down. It takes forever to get matched with people with similar skill. No clue how many more races I need to do before my DR matches my speed at Watkins Glen. So atm, there is just no racing at all for me. Drive behind the pack, finish 40 seconds behind in a lobby that is out of my league.

 

[FoxMulder]

GT4 came out in a different time period. Offline career came without the mirror of online racing to compare against.

Some people get frustrated by online racing, but offline is not racing at all. Racing requires opponents who all compete at their best to win. AI will never do that, no matter what, it's always faked or the player will always lose.

For those who enjoy single player, GT7 has plenty of single player and it will (likely) have a full slate over the next few years.

They say "never meet your heroes". If they remastered GT4, I think there would be a mass awakening.

At the same time you can look at the GT7 trophy stats that show how few players are actually doing online Sport mode. The 50 races in Sport mode trophy is 1.9%.

The majority is offline solo players.

 

[Cayit]

I remember Kaz said long time before the release of GT7 that with new PS5 hardware they had so many MORE options that they can use to make a much better Game...
Now after the release what we are getting is a half-baked game with even less content then last GT6 game!!!
It's a joke what we are getting here.

 

[scooterlord]

You forgot

GT7 - Music Rally!

(please note - I think this mode is a joke and should never of been included)

Then again, my 6-year-old son disagrees - and is waiting patiently for an update, although I don't see it coming :/

 

[Voodoovaj]

At the same time you can look at the GT7 trophy stats that show how few players are actually doing online Sport mode. The 50 races in Sport mode trophy is 1.9%.

The majority is offline solo players.

Well, then by this statement, GT7 must have a spectacular single player mode that needs no change or improvements.

Or, is it because, like many, people play the single player to earn money so they can afford the cars? Also, with no Sport Mode evolotion, many are tired of it?

I know a few hardcore players that had deleted it from their hard drive. That is unlikely to be an isolated issue. Hence why the ticket bug isn't being fixed in a hurry. I imagine the installation levels have increased.

 

[R55NA]

Still cant get over the fact that every race through the entire Menu book was a Cat and Mouse chase.

 

[HarVee]

Still cant get over the fact that every race through the entire Menu book was a Cat and Mouse chase.

One would think by now PD would have competent AI, the hardware is clearly there to process it all. The fact that they've still got this cat and mouse or "chase the rabbit" AI after 25 years is clear that this format is an intentional design choice.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

It is kind of funny and very sad how I am more excited about the future updates and exploits in this game than actually playing the game. The engine swaps are certainly nice and I am enjoying tinkering with tunes but, to be honest, it has really done nothing to motivate me to complete the races I have left. I really don't think I have been less interested in a numbered GT title and kinda bummed that I seem to have hit my end game so soon. I really do hope something big is being planned. A launch 2.0 type of thing or even a hard move to 8.

 

[HarVee]

A launch 2.0 type of thing or even a hard move to 8.

It's clear that PD and/or Sony made the decision to make this game as a service, and with it being on multi-platform I can't see them abandoning it so soon despite the bad launch. GT Sport had a bad launch as well but over time turned out to be a decent game. I still remain in hope that things will improve and with the new track, cars and menu books it is clear PD are making moves to improve the game. They just are doing so at a very slow almost snail-like pace, probably due to aforementioned decision to make it a service game.
I am quite irritated how slow they are working to fix the issues.

Car selling should've been their first priority, then after that the online lobbies, and then fixing the 2 player split-screen. But insofar their priorities have been all over the place fixing and changing things no one really cares about such as thumbnails for the k-car events. No one paid attention to that, the average player doesn't even care about thumbnails. We want car selling, better lobbies, and actual QoL improvements. The only notable QoL improvement we have gotten is the 'free cam'.

The more I think about the car selling, the more I realize it's not something PD want to do probably because of their precious MTX model, but rather something they are being forced into doing by player backlash. Either way in the end, I just want to rid my garage of the 300 cars I'll never use, many which are dupes. But the wait for such a basic feature is absurd. ...Do we need to put some turbos on the snail that is PD to get them to work faster?

 

[Samus]

It's clear that PD and/or Sony made the decision to make this game as a service, and with it being on multi-platform I can't see them abandoning it so soon despite the bad launch. GT Sport had a bad launch as well but over time turned out to be a decent game. I still remain in hope that things will improve and with the new track, cars and menu books it is clear PD are making moves to improve the game. They just are doing so at a very slow almost snail-like pace, probably due to aforementioned decision to make it a service game.
I am quite irritated how slow they are working to fix the issues.

Car selling should've been their first priority, then after that the online lobbies, and then fixing the 2 player split-screen. But insofar their priorities have been all over the place fixing and changing things no one really cares about such as thumbnails for the k-car events. No one paid attention to that, the average player doesn't even care about thumbnails. We want car selling, better lobbies, and actual QoL improvements. The only notable QoL improvement we have gotten is the 'free cam'.

The more I think about the car selling, the more I realize it's not something PD want to do probably because of their precious MTX model, but rather something they are being forced into doing by player backlash. Either way in the end, I just want to rid my garage of the 300 cars I'll never use, many which are dupes. But the wait for such a basic feature is absurd. ...Do we need to put some turbos on the snail that is PD to get them to work faster?

Maybe PD haven't been lucky enough to get the High RPM Turbo for the snail from the roulette.

 

[Voodoovaj]

It's clear that PD and/or Sony made the decision to make this game as a servic...

How so? If that were the case, they would have priced it as such. It would be $5 a month or something. It's not like Sony lacks the power to do that.

 

[Nicxk]

The frustration though is most of us have a realistic expectation because it's just Gran Turismo 7, but with the issues missing. I don't think I know a single hater who denies the core of the game is fantastic (and I think this fact drives a lot of the frustration into a frenzy).

The expectation is just what we have now, with more content for the single player people, and at least parity with GT:Sport in online and lobby functionality generally speaking. All of the hard work of making the core engine, the physics, the cars and tracks we have so far is monumental compared to most of the stuff that gets complained about. It's aggravating knowing the game very feasibly could become a phenomenal title if the team approached it seriously, so we're left reading tea leaves trying to figure out "will they pull it off?"

When you put it in context like that then I can understand your frustrations. It’s missing a few little elements that would make it an absolutely groundbreaking racing game.

 

[juanffy18]

The worst? i don't think so, maybe for the online players

For the moment for me is the third best GT, maybe in the same level as GT5, but obviously not have the GT2 or GT4 standard

 

[Force-Feedback]

The single player is not very well setup or laid out like the old GT's.

I loved the first 4 games for the way the events and championships were set out but this one seems messed up and backwards, not to mention a lack of standing start races in general apart from a few single races that you have to find via world circuits (clubman cup plus on Tsukuba) and that would've been made even better if it had qualifying for these events (optional of course).

People always forget the positives for this game compared to every other GT game, the driving physics, the sounds and sound effects, the attention to detail on effects around the car and in races/replays. (heat haze from exhausts and the cars are louder/quieter when you turn the restrictor up on them from what I've seen), Basically the Core part of the game is at its best apart from the events as mentioned above. No more Gran Turismo Dyson games with psp model cars!

I think what's happened has happened, they'd have to overhaul the events and put them in menus or make it clearer for where to go into what championships, rather than relying on the café system which is not everyone's cup of tea. (yea I went there )

The AI isn't completely stupid but seems to run at a 6/10 setting and can still be improved. They tend to drive slower until you've passed them then they can actually make ballsy moves.

But really the main focus on fixing the game should be with the events as that is what gets us money and enjoyment just like the old days.



The trickle feeding isn't helping in the short term but hopefully its because they're working on something bigger around that to turn the game around, something that isn't the one track plus 3 cars per month.

Love or hate, play or no play, we will all just have to wait...

 

[queleuleu]

Everything seems so complicated at Poly: communication, more offline events, more daily races... Four months later, this is incompetence IMO.

 

[Tuono_GT]

Content is average but I can live with that. It's the terrible force feedback for the fanatec dd1 that is stopping me playing it. There is no real feel and it feels dead in high speed corners. I've spent hours playing with the settings but it still feels dead!

Just built a new rig and setup with the Podium F1 DD Racing Wheel (for PS4/5) and V3 pedal set. Can't seem to get any real feeling out of the DD unit. I'm using the Porsche GT3 wheel (which is great). But, trying to get thru tight corners at any reasonable speed is virtually impossible. No feeling and no grip resulting in pushing the front wide if I get the speed even slightly wrong.

As for the V3 pedal set... just can't stop and car in any decent distance. I see people on YouTube with same DD1 and Porsche wheel being able to brake so much later than I have to. Also, the throttle actuation seems to be pretty crap too, to the point where it's virtually impossible, unless I slow right down, to get out of corners with TC turned off.

I've done the various calibrations twice now and no real difference. Calibration of the throttle from min to max when calibrating has no relevance to what happens in GT7/PS5... partial throttle goes straight to max! AAAAAAAAAHHHHH

Perhaps its a combination of the DD unit settings and the Assist and/or Controller settings on GT7?

Anyway, if anyone can please point me in the right direction to help solve these issues.., Please do so. I would be most grateful :-)

 

[kraftwerkd]

The example that I know best is FPS AI. (Note, I am simplifying this because I don't want to write a white paper here). Without deviation (in the guns and the AI), the AI can kill-shot 100% of the time without fail and it's pretty much unbeatable. So, a vision cone, a type of eye sight, is built in, so it ignores things that it can't "see". It's detection range is limited to approximate hearing. Guns have deviation that's the same for everyone, but the AI is given additional deviation to replicate bad players. The AI has to be made to be worse or it's just frustrating. It's never like a person.

You reminded me of the FEAR AI, there's a good GDC talk by the developer. It appears very human-like but it's very simple decision-making in reality.

That's where I am coming from. No matter how well it's masked, AI always needs something built in to allow it to be defeated, and that (to me) removes the element of competition. To some, it's all the same, and that's fine. So, I hear what you are saying, and I agree that if done correctly, it doesn't really matter.

This is what I like about ACC's AI. It will defend, make mistakes, accidentally bump you and so on. It's probably the best racing AI I've experienced so far, as it isn't completely static and on-rails.

 

[BrunusCL82]

I just played three times in Race C after a month and a half of not spending more than twenty minutes in the game.

To my surprise, the three races had fewer than ten competitors, two with eight and one with nine.

After just five months, GT7 is already showing this audience deficiency? What will happen in a year and a half?

PS Studios needs to assess what is happening with PD. Maybe hire more employees? Change the internal culture? Open PD branches in Europe or USA where there are many experts in racing simulators?

I hope that when Forza 8 is released it will become a benchmark game for content, as a result, there will be a reality check and commercial pressure on PD results.

 

[Nebuc72]

I just played three times in Race C after a month and a half of not spending more than twenty minutes in the game.

To my surprise, the three races had fewer than ten competitors, two with eight and one with nine.

After just five months, GT7 is already showing this audience deficiency? What will happen in a year and a half?

PS Studios needs to assess what is happening with PD. Maybe hire more employees? Change the internal culture? Open PD branches in Europe or USA where there are many experts in racing simulators?

I hope that when Forza 8 is released it will become a benchmark game for content, as a result, there will be a reality check and commercial pressure on PD results.

Crossgen needs to be enabled for dailies really, it's that simple. There's a massive split in the playerbase for no good reason. I don't care if I have to wait an extra 30 seconds for a PS4 player to load a track.

A lot of the issues seen in GTWS races from launch that supposedly stemmed from crossgen seem to be ironed out, so I would say it is about time.

 

[anh165]

I have played Gran Turismo back when it was launched on the Playstation 1, I have never felt so frustrated by a GT title as much as I have with GT7.

PD are a different organisation to what they were 15-20 years ago, I would suspect that the commitee driven proces, along with relentless commercial pressure and arrogance from Sony Entertainment has had much to do with the mediocre quality control and odd decisions that have been made with features and microtranscations.

Then again, the competition is a bit wanting in accessibility and the limited number of licensed cars, and are not compensated by the more consistent handling/tire physics offered by other titles. If the rival developers could expand on vehicles and presentation, then it would be game over for Sony IMO.