Is GT7 fast becoming the worst of the GT Series?

[sh33p]

Just re-adding my 2 cents into this convo.

I’ve stopped playing gt7 and came to the forums to see if it had gotten any better. It looks like the major flaws with GT7 still exist.

Yes: GT7 quite clearly has great graphics, sounds etc and if these things alone made a great game, the GT7 would be the best in the franchise.

But these things do not make a great game. Improved graphics/ sounds etc only enhance a great game but are not essential.

GT7 has failed to be a great ‘game’.
It’s failed to live up to the pre-release hype and PD has failed to listen to the community and quickly fix massive flaws.

The biggest flaw which affects the game as a whole is the glaringly obvious ‘free to play’ currency modle. This is a purposely designed ‘feature’on GT7 that limits the games fun and replay ability in almost all of the areas where previous GT games excelled in.

The grind is worse than any previous GT title and the time gated / RNG aspects of the game are a joke.

The complete lack of content in the solo mode is an absolute disaster and the fact that PD have not fixed this is just sad. They could fix these major problems within a month if they decided to.

But it’s clear that PD do not see these things as problems but only see them as ‘features that bring in more money’

It’s a very near sighted approach and makes GT7 a cash cow and will likely cause GT8 to be less successful. PD’s actions and Kaz’s lies in his releases have made this game a meme to me.

It’s the worst GT game by far. This point has only been enlarged by the fact that it was sold to be the best and it really could be the best.. if only PD made a few changes.

 

[Skython]

The custom race feature is great, but why do I have to own every car I race against if I want to have a cohesive grid of cars? Why do I have to wait months and months for these cars to become available in a pretentious car insurance company's used vehicles dealer? And why do I then find that I have to pay even more than when I last checked the prices? Why are there only like, three races that are worth doing to earn money when it was alleged that the game was intended for us to spend our time in a variety of cars?

If PD had just created events to actually utilise their own content I wouldn't have asked most of these questions in the first place. I think the game can be best summed up by them deciding to order the UI as race circuits before race series: Backwards. The wheel exists, it doesn't need to be reinvented. At its core it just needs to be GT4 with modern content.

 

[Imari]

Not thee best in terms of common knowledge issues, but damn, the sounds and what can be created by the user, it is more of a buy your Hot Wheels cars and sets and use your imagination.

I don't disagree, but I find it amusing that you used that comparison when there's an actual Hot Wheels game that lets you do just that.

 

[05XR8]

I don't disagree, but I find it amusing that you used that comparison when there's an actual Hot Wheels game that lets you do just that.

Shucks. Not quite, but oh so close.

Vision GT is in GT6. What special project(s) does PD have up their sleeves for GT7? Hot Wheels or Match Box collaborations? Lego? Radio control based cars like stadium trucks, buggies from Tamiya?

 

[Tuono_GT]

Just re-adding my 2 cents into this convo.

I’ve stopped playing gt7 and came to the forums to see if it had gotten any better. It looks like the major flaws with GT7 still exist.

Yes: GT7 quite clearly has great graphics, sounds etc and if these things alone made a great game, the GT7 would be the best in the franchise.

But these things do not make a great game. Improved graphics/ sounds etc only enhance a great game but are not essential.

GT7 has failed to be a great ‘game’.
It’s failed to live up to the pre-release hype and PD has failed to listen to the community and quickly fix massive flaws.

The biggest flaw which affects the game as a whole is the glaringly obvious ‘free to play’ currency modle. This is a purposely designed ‘feature’on GT7 that limits the games fun and replay ability in almost all of the areas where previous GT games excelled in.

The grind is worse than any previous GT title and the time gated / RNG aspects of the game are a joke.

The complete lack of content in the solo mode is an absolute disaster and the fact that PD have not fixed this is just sad. They could fix these major problems within a month if they decided to.

But it’s clear that PD do not see these things as problems but only see them as ‘features that bring in more money’

It’s a very near sighted approach and makes GT7 a cash cow and will likely cause GT8 to be less successful. PD’s actions and Kaz’s lies in his releases have made this game a meme to me.

It’s the worst GT game by far. This point has only been enlarged by the fact that it was sold to be the best and it really could be the best.. if only PD made a few changes.

Couldn't agree more. PD seems hell bent on destroying the game and driving people away.

The latest round of stupidity includes taking away penalties for bad/nasty and vindictive drivers (yes, it needed improving but surely the answer is to not just withdraw it - unless they really can't be bothered to fix it?) and the introduction of vehicle damage which might as well just blow up your vehicle as it basically destroys your race. And I'm not just talking about self inflicted errors.., clipping walls or barriers etc. You can be minding your own business and some muppet will do something seriously stupid, put you in the wall and hey presto... race over! The damage inflicted takes so long to 'heal' it's self you might as well quit the race because it's over for you.

That's why I'm writing this. Three races in a row at Sardegna and I got absolutely buggered, but others = race over.

There seems to be huge general outcry about this new feature, yet nothing has been done.

How come so good has gotten so bad. Perhaps Kazunori Yamauchi just doesn't care any more.

 

[Coiler]

Content wise it is the worst GT numbered game. I'm convinced PD does not know what they are doing...

 

[ICEYOU3]

Music Rally seems to be all, but abandoned. Shame.

 

[MIE1992]

Definitely has some of the weakest music in the series, which isn't to say it's bad overall, but definitely feels like at least one whole step down from GT Sport. Which is a shame, because I like the concept of there being different playlists for different menus, like for the UCD, LCD, Sport Mode, Missions, and so on. I'd hope that more music for races, menus, and otherwise would be added in an update, but I just don't know.

 

[Force-Feedback]

The game should not have been a numbered game. There! Sorted!

 

[Sn1per666]

I still have GT5 Prologue sitting on my shelf. This game feels a lot like that. I'm still waiting for the real GT7. The drip feeding of content was ok for Sport but not here. In fact the content updates for Sport were much larger.

 

[Pedinhuh]

For me it's definitely the worse GT game in the series since it's meant to be a fully fledged game and not a glorified demo like the Prologues.

I played this game for about two months before going back to GTA, On the broken PS4 version of the game, and that speaks volumes of how little GT7 interests me. And I didn't even bothered to finish all singleplayer game modes because I noticed quite quickly that it was all the exact same cookie cutter chase-the-rabbit races where out of 20 cars in the grid, only 2 of them offers me any challenge and thats solely because of the catch up mechanic.

The engine swap bonanza was literally the most interesting time to play this game, and now that it's gone there's nothing else for me to do here.

GT Sport was better than this game, even though it had much less content...At least it didn't pretended to be anything else beyond a e-Sports game.

 

[pornomazinger]

Just re-adding my 2 cents into this convo.

I’ve stopped playing gt7 and came to the forums to see if it had gotten any better. It looks like the major flaws with GT7 still exist.

Yes: GT7 quite clearly has great graphics, sounds etc and if these things alone made a great game, the GT7 would be the best in the franchise.

But these things do not make a great game. Improved graphics/ sounds etc only enhance a great game but are not essential.

GT7 has failed to be a great ‘game’.
It’s failed to live up to the pre-release hype and PD has failed to listen to the community and quickly fix massive flaws.

The biggest flaw which affects the game as a whole is the glaringly obvious ‘free to play’ currency modle. This is a purposely designed ‘feature’on GT7 that limits the games fun and replay ability in almost all of the areas where previous GT games excelled in.

The grind is worse than any previous GT title and the time gated / RNG aspects of the game are a joke.

The complete lack of content in the solo mode is an absolute disaster and the fact that PD have not fixed this is just sad. They could fix these major problems within a month if they decided to.

But it’s clear that PD do not see these things as problems but only see them as ‘features that bring in more money’

It’s a very near sighted approach and makes GT7 a cash cow and will likely cause GT8 to be less successful. PD’s actions and Kaz’s lies in his releases have made this game a meme to me.

It’s the worst GT game by far. This point has only been enlarged by the fact that it was sold to be the best and it really could be the best.. if only PD made a few changes.

you are soooooi right!

 

[Galvston]

This game is nowhere near the worst entry. It looks and plays amazing. It's more likely one of the best, and has great potential

 

[Keroyon]

This game is nowhere near the worst entry. It looks and plays amazing. It's more likely one of the best, and has great potential

IMHO it has the potential indeed but fails to deliver so far...

 

[RodSk8Dude]

Someone should come up with an indie racing game equivalent to GT and Forza, so we could have an alternative. They wouldn't be able to get the licensing for all those cars and tracks, but they should just go with fictional ones. I like the cars in, say, GTA or Burnout, that's not a deal breaker, specially if it was a cheaper indie experience.

But then add retro graphics to that and they could just keep adding more content to the game forever, never having to remove or update cars or tracks.

Imagine all the seasonal events in Forza and the online GTs, always available for a limited time... but what if they were permanent additions, with an in-game calendar determining what events you can do at any moment?

And random prizes for them... not with the possibility of geting a stupid dance or eMOtE for your character, and also not determined only after doing it, but each time it appears on the calendar, it has a set prize it tells you beforehand, and it might be more cash, or a rare car which normally is hard to find in the used car dealership...

And what about car-related businesses to own, like on Forza Horizon 4? A racing team management element, like in GRID? Just keep adding these things until we had the best racing/driving/car game ever (modern graphics and extremely detailed physics notwithstanding).

I just with I had some programming knowledge. I had a bit with 3d modelling simple cars, because of the game Gene-Rally, just multiply the amount of polygons available (for GR it was 40 per car), add support for textures and I think I could do that at least. I'm always thinking of how certain cars could look like in a GTA game or this dream game of mine. But it would need some funding and someone with the programming skills, or some big time learning for me. And I don't think that's ever happening. Not with the small amount of free-time I have.

 

[Pedinhuh]

It could be the rather worrying feeling of the impending sophy AI being forced into a later update of GT7, cue the need for larger hard drive if you own a PS4 and drop to 18 fps to support it.

I'm quite sure that Sophy isn't going to make it to the base PS4, at least not in races, hardware isn't up to par.

 

[GTxForza]

To me, this game is far superior to GT PSP when it comes to handling.

 

[ScottPuss20]

To me, this game is far superior to GT PSP when it comes to handling.

Not a high bar to clear mind you.

 

[Imari]

It's more likely one of the best, and has great potential

Unmet potential is not generally regarded as a positive. It means you could have made the game better, but you didn't.

As far as being one of the best, it depends. In absolute terms, perhaps, especially with GT5 and 6 being crippled with the disabling of their online components. In relative terms to the genre when they were released, it's probably pretty near the bottom.

Almost every other GT game had some distinguishing feature that set it apart in the market when it released and pushed the genre forward. GT7 is just a pretty game that drives well and gets most of the basic expectations of a simulation-type racing game mostly right.

It's the meat-and-three-vegetables of racing games. It keeps you alive, and if you happen to like M+3 then you'll think it's amazing. But it's not pushing any culinary boundaries, which when you think about it is a lot of what made Gran Turismo's of the past so exciting. It's fine. That's all.

 

[ScottPuss20]

OK let's just get this straight, most of us go back to GT3 or GT4 because of the career mode and nostalgia. If it wasn't for those things you'd never bother revisiting them. The physics SUCK, there's no weather, no time progression, the graphics are crap, the sounds are awful and it just feels OLD, even if the UI in GT4 is still pretty good. Right now, GT7 is the most realistic GT game ever and driving my Aventador last night highlighted the fact in a way that I've never felt before. It feels better than Assetto Corsa as far as I'm concerned. It's not at the level of Competizione but it doesn't have to be in my opinion. I feel like PD have finally got the balance correct as far accessibility and realism, but oh no, "it's becoming the worst". Why? Because it doesn't satisfy that feeling of nostalgia? Because you don't have hundreds of events to complete? Is that seriously the yardstick of comparison these days? Does nothing else matter? Come on.

 

[GTxForza]

Not a high bar to clear mind you.

Also don't forget GT5 and Forza Motorsport 3's handling is superior to GT PSP as well.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

At its core it just needs to be GT4 with modern content.

This...

Why did this not cross PD's mind?
Just copy paste GT4's amount of content and single player game structure with the modern features of the Scapes, Custom Races, Online Racing, Livery Editor, etc, and the modern graphics and car physics and you basically have the perfect GT.

How hard could this be? It was that simple...

GT Sport was better than this game, even though it had much less content...At least it didn't pretended to be anything else beyond a e-Sports game.

Have to agree. GT Sport technically is worse, but it was a game that wasn't a deception, and was meant exactly for what it was hyped up to be, in fact, it's even in the name itself "Sport" for the e-sports. So I really didn't mind it and saw it for what it was going to end up being, a "Prologue" of the main title GT7.

 

[Imari]

OK let's just get this straight, most of us go back to GT3 or GT4 because of the career mode and nostalgia. If it wasn't for those things you'd never bother revisiting them. The physics SUCK, there's no weather, no time progression, the graphics are crap, the sounds are awful and it just feels OLD, even if the UI in GT4 is still pretty good.

Mostly right, but I feel like you're overstating some things.
The physics aren't good by modern standards but they're perfectly serviceable and fun, especially with a wheel. Frankly, I find them to be good enough because if you're playing any Gran Turismo game including 7 then physics are not your top priority.
The graphics are poor if you're on a PS2, but that's probably not how you're going to play a game like that these days. If you own a legal copy of the game and a PS2 then playing it on an emulator is perfectly legitimate. GT4 in 4K isn't the greatest looking game in the world, but it's far from awful and it has a distinct art style going for it. I've definitely played and enjoyed worse looking games.

There's a lot of nostalgia propping GT3 and 4 up, but there is also some good gameplay there. GT1 and 2 have plenty of nostalgia too, but people aren't mostly going back to them.

Right now, GT7 is the most realistic GT game ever and driving my Aventador last night highlighted the fact in a way that I've never felt before. It feels better than Assetto Corsa as far as I'm concerned. It's not at the level of Competizione but it doesn't have to be in my opinion. I feel like PD have finally got the balance correct as far accessibility and realism, but oh no, "it's becoming the worst". Why? Because it doesn't satisfy that feeling of nostalgia? Because you don't have hundreds of events to complete? Is that seriously the yardstick of comparison these days? Does nothing else matter? Come on.

That's cool for you. You seem to think that everyone shares the same values as to what makes a good Gran Turismo game, that there's some objective, correct consensus to be arrived at. That's not the case, and just because GT7 works well for what you expect from it doesn't mean the same is true for everyone.

Take me. I have tons of great simulators on PC if I want the most realistic driving experience, so that's really not what I'm looking for in a GT game. I don't expect it to be an exceptional simulator, and realism isn't what I'm buying it for. What I buy games like GT and FM for is a gameplay experience that generally doesn't exist in the more "hardcore" simulators. I want to have fun. If that's in a realistic way then cool, but it primarily needs to be fun.

AC has a "career", and it's just a pile of races and events. It's a slog.
ACC has a career and it's pretty cool, but it isn't really the sort of thing you engage with casually. It's serious racing business, and while it can be exciting and tense it's not the sort of casual fun I'm looking for.
PC2 career is much the same.
AMS2? iRacing? R3E? rF2? All great sims, none of them really offering much in the way of a casual friendly and fun single player experience. That's fine, that's not their niche and they don't pretend that it is. It's Gran Turismo's though. Or it was.

I don't think GT7 is the worst of the Gran Turismo games in terms of providing a solid single player experience. GT6 is bad and staggeringly unfun to play. GT1 was good at the time, but it did not age well. But I think that GT7 isn't exactly a slam dunk over every past GT game, which it really should be. There shouldn't even be comparison to games from the early 2000s. Preferring the single player sections of GT4, or GT5, or even GTS seems eminently reasonable, depending on what you value most.

I'm not fussed about nostalgia. I'm fussed about fun. And the reality is that GT7 as a single player game just isn't that much fun, and GT6 is the only other Gran Turismo that I had that experience with. You can tell me that how I feel is wrong, but you're unlikely to convince me that I'm having fun when I'm not. The game just doesn't offer anything that makes me sit up and get excited, probably because I've been pretty into sims for well more than a decade now and I've already seen most of what it has to offer in other games. It's pretty, but I've been around long enough that pretty graphics aren't enough by themselves either.

It's not that it's a bad game, more that it's not a really good game. Being just okay isn't good enough to engage me when I've already played so many sims and have an entire Internet of games that I could otherwise be playing. Games that are enthusiastically trying to get me to play them by offering fun, engaging gameplay and stories. GT7 isn't the worst, but it's sure not the best or I'd be playing it like I played other Gran Turismo games.

 

[Scaff]

It feels better than Assetto Corsa as far as I'm concerned.

Feel free to, AC still has a better physics engine and tyre model (and FFB isn't even close - PD still can't get self-aligning torque right).

 

[B80]

Unmet potential is not generally regarded as a positive. It means you could have made the game better, but you didn't.

As far as being one of the best, it depends. In absolute terms, perhaps, especially with GT5 and 6 being crippled with the disabling of their online components. In relative terms to the genre when they were released, it's probably pretty near the bottom.

Almost every other GT game had some distinguishing feature that set it apart in the market when it released and pushed the genre forward. GT7 is just a pretty game that drives well and gets most of the basic expectations of a simulation-type racing game mostly right.

It's the meat-and-three-vegetables of racing games. It keeps you alive, and if you happen to like M+3 then you'll think it's amazing. But it's not pushing any culinary boundaries, which when you think about it is a lot of what made Gran Turismo's of the past so exciting. It's fine. That's all.

Well not necessarily, having a lot of potential in something is generally regarded as a positive thing.

But yes, if talking about something you were expecting to be the finished article, or close to, it can mean perhaps mean the opposite... polite way of saying it hasn't met expectations, but in the hands on the right people, may get there one day.

 

[eykxas]

OK let's just get this straight, most of us go back to GT3 or GT4 because of the career mode and nostalgia. If it wasn't for those things you'd never bother revisiting them. The physics SUCK, there's no weather, no time progression, the graphics are crap, the sounds are awful and it just feels OLD, even if the UI in GT4 is still pretty good. Right now, GT7 is the most realistic GT game ever and driving my Aventador last night highlighted the fact in a way that I've never felt before. It feels better than Assetto Corsa as far as I'm concerned. It's not at the level of Competizione but it doesn't have to be in my opinion. I feel like PD have finally got the balance correct as far accessibility and realism, but oh no, "it's becoming the worst". Why? Because it doesn't satisfy that feeling of nostalgia? Because you don't have hundreds of events to complete? Is that seriously the yardstick of comparison these days? Does nothing else matter? Come on.

And the fact is, there is hundreds of events ! 443 exactly.

 

[Imari]

Well not necessarily, having a lot of potential in something is generally regarded as a positive thing.

But yes, if talking about something you were expecting to be the finished article, or close to, it can mean perhaps mean the opposite... polite way of saying it hasn't met expectations, but in the hands on the right people, may get there one day.

Right, and in this case we're talking about a game that has been sold to people. The idea that it isn't as good as it could be but it might get there one day is not really desirable when you're buying a product. It's better than something being not great and with no potential for ever being better, but at that point you're discriminating between different levels of not meeting expected standards.

If we're talking about people or land or other things that weren't explicitly designed then untapped potential can absolutely be a good thing. But in a product it's almost never good. The few exceptions I can think of are stuff like Early Access, where you're getting a discount for funding the project that needs extra resources to be able to realise the available potential of their concept. But that's not GT7, as much as people would like to label GT7 (and GTS) as Early Access.

 

[GTxForza]

Another thing, to me this game's single-player races all needed to have a double-file lineup during the start of each race.

 

[Marckyboy]

Bucking the trend here but I still enjoy it and haven't yet had time to complete it all due to work, life etc so I think there is enough content, sure it could be better but the core racing is fun and I haven't got around to sport races yet but enjoyed those on gt sport.

There are things I would like to see, but actually the best thing I want is for this to be a psvr2 launch title with full grids. Gt sport in vr was amazing but very very limited by the PS4 so I'll keep dreaming about this.

 

[rkwld]

It has become very obvious that GT7 is just a refresh of GTS created in time to cash in on the 25th Anniversary with little to no thought put into actually designing a racing game. The complaints about currency are valid, but the biggest problem with the game as a racing game is that it contains absolutely no AI resulting in 'catch the leader' gameplay to compensate. It affects everything including the ability to easily program new race events, which should be effortless, but instead requires a lot of thought into the devs selecting cars and their head start times to make the 'races' competitive. The ridiculous economy is also in place not only for the insidious microtransactions, but also to bottleneck progress otherwise people would complete everything including collecting all of the vehicles very quickly showcasing how shallow the game actually is.

The races feel like time trials with a bunch of AI cars in the way as obstacles since there is no interaction with the other vehicles at all in terms of racing, you just need a faster time than the leader who usually starts the race so far ahead that they don't even need to contend with the rest of the AI pack. The only real fun I've had with it has been the missions and license tests.

I haven't really sunk my teeth into Sport mode yet and wouldn't until I get a wheel, but I'm not spending the money on a wheel in the game's current state. Furthermore, PS trophies indicate that only like 2% of players have completed more than 5 races in sport which is a really really ugly statistic for PD.