Is GT7 fast becoming the worst of the GT Series?

[Dave A]

Over 6 months in and I still stand by exactly what I thought of GT7 in month 1. It's technically, the best GT to date, but as a game, it's one of the most dissapointing along with GT6.

The updates are dissapointing, the lack of single player races is dissapointing, the low Cr payouts compared to the car prices is dissapointing, the AI is dissapointing and the chase the rabbit format of the races is dissapointing. All of which was dissapointing in month 1.

What makes all of it worse is that there is clearly plenty of potential there. The Clubman Cup + races demonstrate you can have challenging single player races with the AI that don't follow the chase the rabbit format. They could change the games economy tomorrow, but they won't because of the MTX's, and the easiest fix of them all, is the lack of a solid single player career, just where are all the championships and races?

The bones are there, they've just got no meat on them.

 

[wheelhp]

How come so good has gotten so bad. Perhaps Kazunori Yamauchi just doesn't care any more.

I don't think Kaz simply doesn't care, it's just that his care is much different to ours. PD it seems is making games as if this were the PS3 days with GT5 and 6.... Radio silence, just chugging along following some master plan of do x for 3 months, then do y for one month, don't worry about a + b =d just follow the 5 year master plan and your fans will forgive you... little do they know it might not work!

It has become very obvious that GT7 is just a refresh of GTS created in time to cash in on the 25th Anniversary with little to no thought put into actually designing a racing game.

We are just solidly into the microtransacation era of gaming now, despite previous outcry. Rockstar for example has turned GTA5 into the single most profitable piece of entertainment, to exist. Kind of impressive. Once they saw the money money money... they then entirely scrapped plans for GTA5 Single player DLC and stuck to making content for more multiplayer player engagement and microtransactions for GTAO. ... Sony then obviously was like "hey Kaz, I'm gonna hold you at gunpoint real quick, give us what Rockstar has or no GT7 for you" Thus GT7 dark souls grind economy was born ....hello microtransactions, my old friend.... you've come to kill our games again

 

[ScottPuss20]

That's cool for you. You seem to think that everyone shares the same values as to what makes a good Gran Turismo game, that there's some objective, correct consensus to be arrived at. That's not the case, and just because GT7 works well for what you expect from it doesn't mean the same is true for everyone.

Take me. I have tons of great simulators on PC if I want the most realistic driving experience, so that's really not what I'm looking for in a GT game. I don't expect it to be an exceptional simulator, and realism isn't what I'm buying it for. What I buy games like GT and FM for is a gameplay experience that generally doesn't exist in the more "hardcore" simulators. I want to have fun. If that's in a realistic way then cool, but it primarily needs to be fun.

AC has a "career", and it's just a pile of races and events. It's a slog.
ACC has a career and it's pretty cool, but it isn't really the sort of thing you engage with casually. It's serious racing business, and while it can be exciting and tense it's not the sort of casual fun I'm looking for.
PC2 career is much the same.
AMS2? iRacing? R3E? rF2? All great sims, none of them really offering much in the way of a casual friendly and fun single player experience. That's fine, that's not their niche and they don't pretend that it is. It's Gran Turismo's though. Or it was.

I don't think GT7 is the worst of the Gran Turismo games in terms of providing a solid single player experience. GT6 is bad and staggeringly unfun to play. GT1 was good at the time, but it did not age well. But I think that GT7 isn't exactly a slam dunk over every past GT game, which it really should be. There shouldn't even be comparison to games from the early 2000s. Preferring the single player sections of GT4, or GT5, or even GTS seems eminently reasonable, depending on what you value most.

I'm not fussed about nostalgia. I'm fussed about fun. And the reality is that GT7 as a single player game just isn't that much fun, and GT6 is the only other Gran Turismo that I had that experience with. You can tell me that how I feel is wrong, but you're unlikely to convince me that I'm having fun when I'm not. The game just doesn't offer anything that makes me sit up and get excited, probably because I've been pretty into sims for well more than a decade now and I've already seen most of what it has to offer in other games. It's pretty, but I've been around long enough that pretty graphics aren't enough by themselves either.

It's not that it's a bad game, more that it's not a really good game. Being just okay isn't good enough to engage me when I've already played so many sims and have an entire Internet of games that I could otherwise be playing. Games that are enthusiastically trying to get me to play them by offering fun, engaging gameplay and stories. GT7 isn't the worst, but it's sure not the best or I'd be playing it like I played other Gran Turismo games.

I don't speak for everybody and I understand that people have different priorities when it comes to this sort of stuff, but I don't think it's fair to beat the game to the curb. Saying that it's "becoming the worst" is objectively wrong in this context.

Feel free to, AC still has a better physics engine and tyre model (and FFB isn't even close - PD still can't get self-aligning torque right).

I guess but I don't get that feeling on a controller.

 

[John_Marsten]

Saying that it's "becoming the worst" is objectively wrong in this context.

Incorrect. It is 100% subjective my guy. What is the worst to me, isn't the worst to you.

This is the worst for me because it kept me engaged for the least amount of time of all GT titles before it with pretty much zero desire to go back to it.

 

[Imari]

I don't speak for everybody and I understand that people have different priorities when it comes to this sort of stuff, but I don't think it's fair to beat the game to the curb. Saying that it's "becoming the worst" is objectively wrong in this context.

I mean, I don't think it's the worst myself but if someone wanted to label it as the worst Gran Turismo game I don't think there any objective basis for saying that how they feel about it is incorrect.

Ultimately games are supposed to be fun. If someone is finding that GT7 is the least fun GT game they've ever played then to them it's the worst. There's not really anything you can say to "objectively" argue with that. There are reasonable and understandable subjective reasons why someone who liked previous GT games might fail to find GT7 engaging and fun, even if you find those same things to be the reason why you are having fun with it.

As we can see by the very next post by @John_Marsten. What evidence could you possibly offer that would make his experience with the game objectively incorrect?

The only way claiming it's objectively not the worst could even start to be correct is on a technical basis, but that feels like it largely misses the point of games. Movies aren't great because they have the best CGI, or the most technically complex music, or fancy-pants camerawork. They're great because of the emotional impact they have on the audience, and all the technical factors are just tools to use to create that emotional impact. With games the experience is even more important, because you're actually taking part instead of just sitting watching. All the technical excellence in the world is pointless if it's not used in a way that engages the player. This is why big budget stuff from EA

If you want to talk about and rate individual technical aspects of the game independent of it's overall impact then sure. There's lots of things that GT7 does really well, even if they're not used in a way that confers a great gameplay experience to some people. But don't conflate technical excellence with a great experience, because they're not automatically linked.

 

[05XR8]

Incorrect. It is 100% subjective my guy. What is the worst to me, isn't the worst to you.

This is the worst for me because it kept me engaged for the least amount of time of all GT titles before it with pretty much zero desire to go back to it.

....and that's what's fair about this discussion.

 

[shadow0460]

Close. Yes. GT2 is the worst one I have played by far. GT7 is going from fun to downright frustrating more and more with every patch.
Clip a blade of grass? Crash + penalty. Lose race but don't find out because it strings you along for 35 minutes making you think it's winnable.
I am also absolutely sick of how the AI drives. There's no excuse for it, period.
GT2's "reality" did it in. One tap of the brakes when you needed them the most would send your pixelated blob careening out of control.
GT3 is the best of the ones I've played. GT4 is close. I also have GT Mobile and Tourist Trophy which I have yet to play.

 

[Scaff]

I guess but I don't get that feeling on a controller.

GT7 is holding your hand with a controller to a significant degree, the difference with a wheel is night and day.

 

[GTboyz]

GT7 is holding your hand with a controller to a significant degree, the difference with a wheel is night and day.

Definitely, especially pre 1.20 patch (at least to me).

 

[Cayit]

Even with the best graphics and physics doesnt make it good game.
PD has to fill up the Game with Content...

 

[Absolutdani]

We need more single player content.

 

[hardvibes]

We need more single player content.

Don't put it this way, otherwise many users will jump over you and say you can set your own custom races (the good ol' "do it yourself" argument). We have lots of cars and tracks, but they're not put to good use. Adding some inconsequential events won't fix anything either. You race in those 2-3 events, and then leave single players at the same speed you decided to do them.

You have to say "we need a CAREER MODE".

 

[KaiB]

I think people are a bit "balanced" to the extremes in term of opinions.

Theres 2 factors that are fundamental in any driving game, and mostly in GT, its a racing game above all else...

Taking this note no other GT game felt like Gt7 in terms of physics..., neither it looked so good.

For people ho aprecciate to drive and have fun along with others most of the single player content its just there to help to grind some credits.
Most of the people i know in GT do their own events, classic cars, private leagues and so on...

In terms of single player probably its the down side of Gt7 but the thing that matters the most its there, its the best base ever but incomplete in terms of content.

I say people must have patience we live in modern era of online and progressive development...
PD seems to be struggling to adapt, but most of the people seems to be stucked in the past aswell.

I love this game but at the same time some things bother me aswell but it can never be the worst cause it never felt so fun to drive in a GT game, when some friends come to my home i just put the wheel in his/their hands, a custom race in Nuerburging in the Nissan GTR Nismo GT3, the sounds, turbo, wind, and the amazing visuals, people that normally dont play racing games get hooked.

Indeed GT need a bit more love, to many cars and to many possibilities that can easely be implemented to cativate a more broad audience, and at the same time please the old players.
But has long has im having fun playing GT i will always play it.

 

[05XR8]

Even with the best graphics and physics doesnt make it good game.
PD has to fill up the Game with Content...

Content or more content? It’s what they do with the content. Not that there needs more content to make it a good game. As been mentioned many times, licences are part of the series. Allow players to actually learn something with them.

All these events, regardless of payouts, can be tweaked better. Make some events a race weekend. Practice->Qualifying->Race with skip options. Change the weather conditions through each part of the weekend if need be.

There was a Menu book to enter the GT Auto shop. Give a task to build a specific car(not only add parts to make it a certain PP range) or give a reward to players for recreating a specific classic car grid. Something like that. Not just, here’s a prize for washing your car.

It’s all in the game already. Once again, executed poorly.

 

[TypeRDC5]

My thoughts are the same as many here.

There is a great selection of cars and tracks, chuck in a load of events where we can race our cars and I would be happy.

And if the sophy AI turns out good and is added to the game along with a lot more events then in my opinion it would be the best GT game so far.

 

[wheelhp]

I don't think it's fair to beat the game to the curb. Saying that it's "becoming the worst" is objectively wrong in this context.

What's fair to one is unfair to another. Freedom of speech and all that. Personally I think the game had a bad launch and was rushed out the door. But I also think it will get better in time, just remains to be seen how bad the in-game economy will get, or if new events will balance it out. In truth nobody has to like anything for any reason, or no reason at all. If a GT series fan bought GT7 on the marketing lie of expecting a true GT experience and didn't get that whilst playing it for more than a month, they then have due freedom to complain about it. Might be a totally fun game by 2024 once all the bugs with the netcode and tyre physics are ironed out but that remains to be seen, we're in for the long haul and Kaz appears to be playing an even longer game with us. Enjoy the ride

 

[ScottPuss20]

The only way claiming it's objectively not the worst could even start to be correct is on a technical basis

That's what I'm talking about.

But don't conflate technical excellence with a great experience, because they're not automatically linked.

No but the games that are great from a technical perspective tend to provide a great experience. Look at ACC.

GT7 is holding your hand with a controller to a significant degree, the difference with a wheel is night and day.

Yes. I was reminded of this last night when I played ACC. A lot more work is required to keep the car on track, even with my settings.

 

[Imari]

No but the games that are great from a technical perspective tend to provide a great experience. Look at ACC.

Nah. Look at AAA games as a whole. They're pretty universally technically excellent, because it's easy to buy technical pizazz when you have a big budget. But how many of them are actually excellent games? Not that many, they're mostly just barely acceptable games that are made palatable with incredible visuals and fancy systems. The link between technical excellence and a great game experience just isn't that strong.

What's missing is (for want of a better term) artistic greatness.

Artistic greatness in games can take all sorts of forms, it's the structure of what makes the gameplay and experience fun. Artistic greatness and games that are a great experience are pretty strongly linked. It's really hard to make something that is fundamentally fun to play an unpleasant experience - the only real way to do it is through technical incompetence. Graphics that are awful to look at, a terrible frame rate, janky controls, these things can ruin a game that is otherwise excellent.

Technical greatness just isn't that important, which is why good games tend to age really well. Games like Starcraft and Street Fighter 2 Turbo are still going strong because the gameplay is so well made that they're fundamentally fun even decades later. A game that is fundamentally fun and technically competent is just fine and not that much different to one that is technically great. Playing SF2T HD just isn't that much better than playing SF2T. But a game that isn't fun will never be fun, no matter how shiny it's graphics are.

Is ACC technically outstanding? It's certainly an excellent game to drive, but is it that all it's systems are technically exceptional? Or did Kunos take a pretty good physics system and use existing tools in Unreal Engine 4 to make a really fun game through great design? I think it's an excellent game, but I don't consider it to be a technical masterpiece.

 

[05XR8]

I understand the hate with GT5 & GT6, but imagine those two games with GT7 features.: Custom Race, Livery Editor, Widebody, engine swaps, etc. All the NASCAR stuffs with the recent circuits in GT7.





Funny it took so long to get the E30 M3, but we pretty much have all these cars in the franchise. Leaving the player to create these kind of events may seem lazy to some, but that was the way for the first four titles.
If only PD expanded the GTness that is the Tsukuba 🌶️ Event.

 

[GTboyz]

I understand the hate with GT5 & GT6, but imagine those two games with GT7 features.: Custom Race, Livery Editor, Widebody, engine swaps, etc. All the NASCAR stuffs with the recent circuits in GT7.





Funny it took so long to get the E30 M3, but we pretty much have all these cars in the franchise. Leaving the player to create these kind of events may seem lazy to some, but that was the way for the first four titles.
If only PD expanded the GTness that is the Tsukuba 🌶️ Event.

Tsukuba chili event is definitely the best race in the game.

 

[MroczMR]

Tsukuba chili event is definitely the best race in the game.

I still wonder why we didn’t get any more chilli events…

 

[Mathaios_C]

we just need a spec 2.0 with an all new career mode

 

[Leggacy]

Open lobbies are rubbish, laggy, wobbly cars. Can’t believe people are playing it like that. Probably the most disappointing GT ever! but with nice graphics 😂

 

[GlamFM]

It has gotten better with every update & the VR update has pushed it over the edge and for me personally made it my favorite GT of all time right ahead of 3.

So I´d say it´s fast becoming the best of the GT series.

 

[Cerebral303]

It's not a bad game but half a year in for me (a little over) and I'm finding the online to just be a continuation of GT Sport, and the main game not offering much more than what we had for the previous 5 years.

I think splitting the cups up into individual races on each track is not as good as the tournements of old with 5 races in a row and a car as a prize. When I heard they were bringing back the old GT Mode this isn't what I imagined.

The new tracks are welcome, yet there are still so many they could bring back - El Capitan, Apricot Hill, Midfield, Red Rock, Pikes Peak (PLEASE!) and a whole bunch of city based courses (Seattle, New York, Rome etc)

If I had VR I think I would view the game more highly but until then I play less and less each week.

 

[TonyLomas]

The VR is very much worth playing. The headset is expensive but as a feature of the game VR is amazing. So much better than the VR content in GT1 etc.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I mean... if you want to spend $550 on a console-locked headset sure. I don't have the kind of money to throw $550 at one game just to make it decent. If I did, I'd have a VR headset for my PC instead.

 

[cjsrt4]

I mean... if you want to spend $550 on a console-locked headset sure. I don't have the kind of money to throw $550 at one game just to make it decent. If I did, I'd have a VR headset for my PC instead.

I'd 100% agree with this statement, if it were posted 2 months ago. I couldn't justify the price for one game, but then I realized my 1,100 dollar PC VR headset (Valve Index) is being used for only 2-3 games.

The VR is very much worth playing. The headset is expensive but as a feature of the game VR is amazing. So much better than the VR content in GT1 etc.

I hated GT7 for the longest time because I was used to AC and ACC in VR, but GT7 in VR is a game changer as far as immersion goes. I created a new profile so I could start all over in the career mode aspect of the game. I don't think the lack of content will bother me as much now that I'm playing in VR. ACC is pretty lacking in content and I'm still enjoying that game.

 

[shadow0460]

When the VR works, GT7 is phenomenal. The sad thing is, PSVR2 is a steaming pile of mountain climbing, dead battery accessory, fantasy race car filled crap. Literally. Go look up damage reports on them, it's astounding. That's not to mention those who can't use it due to motion sickness.
So with that aside:
First, the chili races need to go, period. That's why we have difficulty settings, and in some cases the payout can be raised. I've finally gotten to where I can finish certain non chili races at maximum difficulty with no assists at all beyond an audio headset with 3D sound. VR makes them easier because they're more natural, but my headset lasted less than a month before breaking down. My wheels aren't compatible.
One plays and plays and gets a reasonable selection of cars...then has to grind for one stupid part to try and win a chili race. Or they have to leave it and hope for an engine on the roulette. I can't tell you how much I ground at Goodwood before finishing the coffee shop.
On the major grind races I will absolutely dust the competition regardless of difficulty even on Tokyo and Road Atlanta, but they just are not worth it without the CRB, which I might miss at RA, and will miss at Tokyo. I have not a snowball's chance of winning the 1 hour races at Tsukuba, Trial Mountain, and Lake Maggiore. I might be able to pull off Maggiore in the Loctite- Zexel GT-R, but that car isn't truly in the game, it's a livery swap of a different car. It shouldn't be that way, there should be an option of winning all those, even if it's at a bronze level, for someone who can decimate half a dozen races at the highest difficulty settings, and, in some cases, with a 120PP handicap.
I played GT Sport for the first time a couple weeks ago. That's what single player in GT7 should have been. I played one evening and have half a million credits and several cars now.
GT3 was the last truly great Gran Turismo. It lacked the draconian missions of GT4 and was all good, solid racing. The series is far eclipsed by the likes of SCUD Race and several no wheels racers.
GT7 could easily be fantastic with a few very small changes, but no, the powers that be won't make them.
If I had to pick a worst, it would be GT2. I don't know how I played that through. It's got zero replay value and comes across as an ugly, out of control, pixelated mess.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I'd 100% agree with this statement, if it were posted 2 months ago. I couldn't justify the price for one game, but then I realized my 1,100 dollar PC VR headset (Valve Index) is being used for only 2-3 games.

And that's why I won't buy VR for PC either. There's just not enough for how expensive it is. Even still, there's Half Life: Alyx, Beat Saber (with mods), Blade & Sorcery, Skyrim VR (with lots of mods!), Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally 2, Euro Truck Sim, MS Flight Sim, VRChat, Tabletop Simulator, Among Us VR... you know, PC VR is actually starting to sound kinda nice, maybe once my living situation is settled again...

I wouldn't even have a PS5 if I didn't manage to get it for cheap. I don't have many games for it either and wouldn't be able to justify the price for so few games. PSVR would sound like a better deal if it could at least be used on PC, but Sony doesn't want that for some reason. Normally I'm quick to blame money but... they'd get more sales that way. I don't get it.