Is GT7 fast becoming the worst of the GT Series?

[Riptide]

It's clear (for me at least) that the answer to the OP's question lies with what each player seeks in the game which in turn causes the differences in opinion.

For me the game is perhaps not the worst, but certainly the most boring. I only play for the racing part (with occasional painting) and have no interest in collecting cars I will never use or which belong in the museum. Neither do I take photos or concern myself with what colour the rims are in a thumbnail.

For the racing part:
# liceces, missions and CE's are cool, but golded them all (except rallies) long time ago.
# Cafe menu was cool, but completed them long time ago (new ones first day of its release)
# World Circuit cool while they lasted, but none left to do.
# Dayly races currently with no strategy or weather to it and repeating of same old combinations boring as hell.
# Online lobbies most unstable and not working properly.
# Online time trial keeps my interest for about 30 to 50 laps in a few hours every 2 weeks.
#World series just weekends,

So, while I agree there's plenty to do for lots of people who love variety, the game is most boring (after few weeks of playing) if you're in it for racing only. AND no, I do not consider driving an overpowered car against inferior Al cars 20 times a day on the same track as racing.
Just my 2 cents on what I seek from the game.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Let's refresh on the topic.

"this is becoming the worst"

Some want to say "it's the best so far" Both are dependent on the frame of reference. For instance, GT7 is the best GT on PS5, because it is so by default. "It's the best in a decade", maybe, if you find a lot of fault with GTSport, and there was a lot to fault, but let's do a reality check. It's really the exact same game if you remove the Cafe guidance to specific events, and that isn't really much.

It is glaringly obvious, in every facet of the game, that MTX is the core focus. There are numerous examples of this. A minor one, is this week's "friendly" Race A. If you take your own car, they force you to buy tires. Why? Is the race THAT much better on CS tires vs SH tires??

For the first time in the game's history, the core focus of the game is Sony's income generation rather than the player's enjoyment. That's a pretty compelling argument for why it might be the worst.

BTW, I will give it applause for taking me away from checking social media and focusing on this forum

 

[Terronium-12]

I asked, in an earlier post, what was the worse GT before GT7?

6, easily. It'd be easy for me to say GT Sport, but to be frank, GT Sport's focal point was always eSports from the very beginning. Was it a terrible shift to have a GT game be entirely focused on that one thing? Yes. Yes it was. Hence the single player updates.

Do I like GT Sport? No. No I don't. Never have.

Will I pretend that GT Sport doesn't have more races in its current state than GT7? I will not and neither should anyone else as the evidence is in an entire game mode.

Look at the creations and photos you yourself take. How is that worse than GT Sport ?

You know what's funny about this? The image compression in GT7 actually is worse than Sport's.

Maybe it's improved, and I hope it has, but the last time I compared two pictures of the same cars, in the same Scapes, with the same camera settings, GT7 produced a more aliased image. Even worse with ray tracing, which I know has improved since.

The cars we all create, can be used in whatever race they are regulated to. How does that hat make it the worse and/or coming to be the worse in the GT Series?

How many races are available for Vision GT cars? How many races are available for race cars in general? How many races are available for anything not in Gr.4 or Gr.3?

Hop into the Porsche VGT right now (not literally) and tell me how many races you can enter without severely gimping its PP/BoP. Hop into the Super Formula and tell me how many races you can enter at all. And, just to be clear, I'm talking about single player content here. Not online. Not custom races.

Custom races are an amazing addition to the franchise that, like many things PD implement, is half-assed in its entirety.

I've said the worse PD have done, is actually give us the b st tools out of any GT game, but executed poorly. This game IS bad. Linearly. From the Standpoint of those wanting to be lead through an organised progression. Yes. It's bad. It's not the worse and/or becoming the worse.

Except, it is. GT7 makes 6 look like GT3 or 4 by comparison alone. There are engine swaps in GT7 that are so rare they may as well not even be present in the game to begin with. And for what reason are they so rare? We're not playing a looter shooter; an engine swap isn't the equivalent to a gear drop in an MMO – it's a goddamn platform upgrade part that should be readily available in the upgrade shop without having to pray to RNGesus. It's beyond ridiculous.

You need a voucher to buy certain cars from the dealership. Why!? What does this add to the game? And why do they expire!? As I've said previously, some of the game's ideas sound absolutely fantastic on paper — the idea of treating a rare car as it is in the real world sounds amazing because it elicits exclusivity. In practice? No. That's the perfect response without explaining anything further: no.

I haven't even touched on the economy issue, which is still a problem. Less of one, but still a significant issue as the game is designed around microtransactions.

How worse it than GT5 & 6? I can't recall because I was happy to just a race cars I liked.
Same with pretty much all the GT games.

GT5 and 6 have proper career structures. Races where you can insert almost any car you want into any race, provided it isn't Drivetrain or Manufacturer-limited like every other past GT game. GT7 is the only game to get this wrong for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Again, and even I'm getting tired of it being repeated at this point, GT Sport has a better GT Mode than the game marketed as being a return to form for the franchise. How is that even remotely possible? The fact that Sport doesn't reward you with cars is a moot point at best as it doesn't actually detract from the point.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Nope, my argument is that the entire in-game economy in GT7 is designed to drive people towards MTX as a shortcut, and that the game balance suffers as a direct result of that design.

Arguing that's not the case flies in the face of some pretty clear evidence, from the increased cost pretty much across the board of not just cars but also modifying and maintaining those cars, the FOMO mechanics (that can be bypassed via MTX), the massively watered down daily marathon rewards, the linking of Legendary cars to a price increase mechanic (that doesn't just affect the cars, but also maintaining those cars), the low-pay-outs for events (particularly on-line and custom), the locking of high-pay-out events into the 'one-and-done' missions area, the different Credit limit cap for paid vs earned in-game currency, the consistent approach to nerfing high-pay-out grinds that player discover, the artificial 'value' built into buying more expensive credit packs, and the in your face offer to buy them in multiple screens. Add onto that the fact that PD /Sony also deliberately hid the extent and cost of MTXs from reviewers at launch and you have to practice some spectacular mental gymnastics to come to any other conclusion than it's by design.

The economy in GT7 is built around MTXs, and for those who don't use them and have neither the time nor the patience for the grind it results in a game design and experience that suffers as a result, a fact that has been picked up by the wider gaming media. PD/Sony deserve to join the list of companies that get called out for this practice, and deserve to be considered among the worst offenders for using them within a full price title.

This entire paragraph more or less outlines the truth that so much of GT7's entire gameplay loop is predicated on micro-transactions, and that people saying 'oh, well I never bought any, so what's the issue?' are effectively lying to themselves, and ignoring the fact that other weaker willed people will be compelled to buy micro-transactions (specifically for Legendary cars, but also Used Cars) and that many of GT7's worse aspects are built around micro-transactions.

 

[kjeldsen]

We're not talking about what you can/can't do, we're talking about each games' individual MTX and economy models, and how they compare. Sure, you don't exactly need the Ford Mk. IV to beat the game (unless you're going for the Platinum Trophy or trying to boost your collector score), but it doesn't take away from the fact that the model that PD has chose to get to that goal or similar is clear as day inspired by games like GTA.

Which means that there is at least some incentive to splurg on MTXs if that is a player's goal.

That depends. Do rental cars come with pre-installed upgrades, or are they stock? Can you adjust their settings? And are the cars available for rent typically among the fastest cars available? I do remember in GT Sport that in a lot of online events, if you didn't have the right car, you were probably not going to be competitive. I can 100% see PD/Sony using that as a vehicle to incentivize MTX purchases.

Which can and is used as another draw for potential whales, because the cars in the Legendary shop tend to be some of the more exclusive items in the game, and are only available for a short amount of time. They may not be the best/fastest vehicles, but their manufactured rarity plays a part in their desirability, and as such drives the desire To purchase MTXs to grab them. This is the FOMO part of the economy at work.

Again, this really isn't an out-there comparison. The core structure of each games' model is damn-near indistinguishable. It seems that you just refuse to recognize it for some reason.

Also, don't think I didn't miss you ignoring my comparison between people glitching in GTA and people using the Tomahawk glitch in GT7.

As much as i hate Microtransactions with a passion and the litteral horse armor it rode in on i simply can't see how you can compare skins with the core items that gives you an ACTUAL ADVANTAGE in other games.

And since you are thinking the exact same about how i see it.. i will leave at that.

 

[Samus]

As much as i hate Microtransactions with a passion and the litteral horse armor it rode in on i simply can't see how you can compare skins with the core items that gives you an ACTUAL ADVANTAGE in other games.

And since you are thinking the exact same about how i see it.. i will leave at that.

Why does their in-game worth matter? They're a core part of the game, whether we NEED them or WANT them. It's a car game. The cars are what people want. It doesn't make much difference whether they're needed to be competitive online or not. The fact is the game has been designed around making them harder to obtain with only in-game playing. Just as they have in the other compared games.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The fact of the matter is that if I am going to be buying a car that the developers put into the game to be bought, it would be really nice if I could buy it without having to wait for it to show up in the cycle, and more importantly, not have the price jacked up ten fold the next time it comes around.

That you can't, and when you can, it's predicated on grinding or spending for micro-transactions is a failure on PD's part, but one they absolutely designed the game around. And if that is the case, I'm sure as hell not bothering more then I have in continuing the game, especially when Polyphony show no signs of eliminating either the in game economy loop, or the micro-transactions, and I'm certainly not here to have people trip over themselves to defend it when they absolutely would be raking other series and developers over the coals for it.

 

[05XR8]

...or you grind thousands of hours to go from basic starter machines to top-tier aircraft, ships and vehicles. You also have to grind to pay for vehicle upgrades (I believe that most jets don't come with Flare Countermeasures by default, and you have to pay for them with in-game credits)...

...and it's just like GT7. You either pay for MTXs to alleviate the grind (a la War Thunder), or grind countless hours to get what you want. The only significant differences is that GT7 (thankfully) doesn't have a Premium Account option that you pay actual money for, nor does it have a selection of premium vehicles that earn more money and XP compared to vanilla.

On the contrary, GTA Online's MTX model is probably the closest comparison to GT7's MTX model. In both game, almost all content is available for "free," but both games have their economy set up in a way to where getting items without MTXs means committing to a totally ridiculous grind, and both games also go out of their way to reguarly remind you of MTXs existing.

Also, neither GTA or GT7 are Free-2-Play games, despite having economies commonly found in such titles, and up until recently, a significant portion of GT7 players were infact taking advantage of a bug to get ahead of the economy. So, the GTA-GT7 comparison is not as off as you are trying to make it out to be.


So what of the players that don't care about customization, or at the very least (much like myself) don't see customization as the end-all-be-all of what makes a good game? Also, customization is till tied to the poor economy in some fashion, because you still need in-game credits to take advantage of it.

This is where we go in circle. Becasue, I answered you with that customisation post. I don’t care for MTX. IM not using them. It doesn’t mean ”Is GT7 fast becoming the worst in the Series?”.

I already asked twice, what is the worse GT game, which no one can answer absolutely. I didn’t say there are no negative effects to the game.
So, ScottPye and Terronium are using GT Sport as a comparison up til the month of June. The OP is asking is the game on its way to becoming the worse. Some feel, at the moment, it is. Some feel, at the moment, it isn’t.

MTX doesn’t make it the worse. This game may be the worse received, after unpackaging. What’s in the game is plenty. How PD executed is bad. Some of things they’ve done are silly. I’m not blind to the facts.

• the economy, which is being updated in super slow drips(as been posted, probably MTX related)
• Broken online lobbies(which I think theirs been a good patch for one of the features) - not MTX related
• The constant freezing of pics, when taking pics during a replay. - not MTX related
• I’m one player that starts the game, the GT circle keeps spinning and the game doesn’t load. I have to jump out. Start The Find your line content(or start a different game in my library) jump back out of that game and restart GT7. It’s annoying, but not making it the worse GT game. - not MTX related
• wheel users getting the shaft - not MTX related
• game progression locked in menus - (possibly MTX and can be done without MTX
• lack of attention to Daily Race rotation - not MTX related

Now, GT Sport is mainly for Lobby/multiplayers. The single player content is lack lustre. GT7 content can be breezed through, for those that have the time. Believe it or not, people asked for UCD, car customisation, race customisation, variable weather and time. We all were sold on selling cars making a return. I‘ve already read and understand why MTX are bad. However, MTX makes this the worse game in the series.


Some players have gone back to the past games. Some have never stopped playing the past games. Some have refunded the game and/or shelved it. Yet, there are players that don’t want to look back to replay those games for graphics, physics and tailoring the game how they’d like.
With GT7, I can do things that I can’t do in past games. Again, that’s where solo play comes into this. I already know how hard it is, for those Players who want certain cars. Yet, people were upset with being handed cars easily. Does this make it the worse or do we skip/brush away the things we can do in GT7? It seems like many are still finding ways to enjoy this game. Despite the flaws.

It’s poor execution, with ultimately, I think, Samus said greed is the operative word.

 

[Voodoovaj]

MTX is the focus. It can't be denied. All the effort that should have gone into designing a good experience went to MTX instead.

The Hagerty thing (MTX). "Invitations" MTX. Pushing the player to do tedium rather than enjoyment...MTX.

MTX has taken away from the game experience because the dev had to focus effort there rather than what's important to the customer.


- The could have added cup race/manufacturer races for all the makes (as was in the past)

- They could have made hybrid single player modes for the endurance races - Have you and a few friends be a "team" that tackles a 24 hour race. This could be done on your time, not a 24 hour clock, by being notified that it's your turn...you then run your stint, and pass it to the next person.

- They could have expanded Sport Mode to be more then 3 races and to include more street cars

- They could have done countless things...literally countless things. But, it's all about the MTX.

ON the upside, they sort of backhandedly gave us B-Spec through script driven farming

 

[05XR8]

6, easily. It'd be easy for me to say GT Sport, but to be frank, GT Sport's focal point was always eSports from the very beginning. Was it a terrible shift to have a GT game be entirely focused on that one thing? Yes. Yes it was. Hence the single player updates.

Do I like GT Sport? No. No I don't. Never have.

Will I pretend that GT Sport doesn't have more races in its current state than GT7? I will not and neither should anyone else as the evidence is in an entire game mode.

You know what's funny about this? The image compression in GT7 actually is worse than Sport's.

Maybe it's improved, and I hope it has, but the last time I compared two pictures of the same cars, in the same Scapes, with the same camera settings, GT7 produced a more aliased image. Even worse with ray tracing, which I know has improved since.

How many races are available for Vision GT cars? How many races are available for race cars in general? How many races are available for anything not in Gr.4 or Gr.3?

Hop into the Porsche VGT right now (not literally) and tell me how many races you can enter without severely gimping its PP/BoP. Hop into the Super Formula and tell me how many races you can enter at all. And, just to be clear, I'm talking about single player content here. Not online. Not custom races.

Custom races are an amazing addition to the franchise that, like many things PD implement, is half-assed in its entirety.

Except, it is. GT7 makes 6 look like GT3 or 4 by comparison alone. There are engine swaps in GT7 that are so rare they may as well not even be present in the game to begin with. And for what reason are they so rare? We're not playing a looter shooter; an engine swap isn't the equivalent to a gear drop in an MMO – it's a goddamn platform upgrade part that should be readily available in the upgrade shop without having to pray to RNGesus. It's beyond ridiculous.

You need a voucher to buy certain cars from the dealership. Why!? What does this add to the game? And why do they expire!? As I've said previously, some of the game's ideas sound absolutely fantastic on paper — the idea of treating a rare car as it is in the real world sounds amazing because it elicits exclusivity. In practice? No. That's the perfect response without explaining anything further: no.

I haven't even touched on the economy issue, which is still a problem. Less of one, but still a significant issue as the game is designed around microtransactions.

GT5 and 6 have proper career structures. Races where you can insert almost any car you want into any race, provided it isn't Drivetrain or Manufacturer-limited like every other past GT game. GT7 is the only game to get this wrong for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Again, and even I'm getting tired of it being repeated at this point, GT Sport has a better GT Mode than the game marketed as being a return to form for the franchise. How is that even remotely possible? The fact that Sport doesn't reward you with cars is a moot point at best as it doesn't actually detract from the point.

Thanks for responding.

MTX is the focus. It can't be denied. All the effort that should have gone into designing a good experience went to MTX instead.

The Hagerty thing (MTX). "Invitations" MTX. Pushing the player to do tedium rather than enjoyment...MTX.

MTX has taken away from the game experience because the dev had to focus effort there rather than what's important to the customer.


- The could have added cup race/manufacturer races for all the makes (as was in the past)

- They could have made hybrid single player modes for the endurance races - Have you and a few friends be a "team" that tackles a 24 hour race. This could be done on your time, not a 24 hour clock, by being notified that it's your turn...you then run your stint, and pass it to the next person.

- They could have expanded Sport Mode to be more then 3 races and to include more street cars

- They could have done countless things...literally countless things. But, it's all about the MTX.

ON the upside, they sort of backhandedly gave us B-Spec through script driven farming

Oh, heck yeah. I agree. That’s why I said they have done silly things to this game. However, as Terronium is saying about MTX, what’s the purpose, if players then can’t race those cars they want to buy? Players are not going to buy them. So, they still botched up the very thing theyre focusing on.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Thanks for responding.

Oh, heck yeah. I agree. That’s why I said they have done silly things to this game. However, as Terronium is saying about MTX, what’s the purpose, if players then can’t race those cars they want to buy? Players are not going to buy them. So, they still botched up the very thing theyre focusing on.

Oh, the absolutely botched it. They botched in in a million ways.

I already asked twice, what is the worse GT game, which no one can answer absolutely. I didn’t say there are no negative effects to the game.

No one can answer absolutely because it's not an absolute measure. I say GT2 (because it released as a completely broken game which I had to physically exchange for a repaired one) and some say GT6, which I can agree with for a few reasons. It also sold the least.

What's the metric on the absolute worst?

if you want to compare GT7 to GT6, which technically is it's true predecessor, than GT7 is absolutely and measurably worse in regards to content, both online and offline. If it's sales, then we have yet to see the end.

And in any respect, the fact that we are seeking the worst so as to prove GT7 is NOT IT, is a pretty good sign the GT7 might actually be the worst.


Still, it think it points to effort. So, for me, you get out what you put in, and they didn't put in enough.

 

[05XR8]

Oh, the absolutely botched it. They botched in in a million ways.

No one can answer absolutely because it's not an absolute measure. I say GT2 (because it released as a completely broken game which I had to physically exchange for a repaired one) and some say GT6, which I can agree with for a few reasons. It also sold the least.

What's the metric on the absolute worst?

if you want to compare GT7 to GT6, which technically is it's true predecessor, than GT7 is absolutely and measurably worse in regards to content, both online and offline. If it's sales, then we have yet to see the end.

And in any respect, the fact that we are seeking the worst so as to prove GT7 is NOT IT, is a pretty good sign the GT7 might actually be the worst.


Still, it think it points to effort. So, for me, you get out what you put in, and they didn't put in enough.

I can respect that.

 

[FPV MIC]

Maybe you're too young to remember the context in which GT1 released. Maybe you are viewing it in the context of subsequent titles, which is somewhat, fair, but you can't divorce it from it's launch context, because most of GT7's criticisms are within the launch context.

Before GT1, reflective cars did not exist. At the time, 140 cars and 11 tracks was mind blowing!!! We saw teaser videos and all believed that they were faked, because it was graphically impossible for a PS1 to be that good! Before GT1, the world did not know about the Nissan Skyline!

GT1 changed the landscape of racing as a genre. It changed the landscape of video games in many respects. There is a definite "before Gran Turismo" and "after Gran Turismo". So, Although I wouldn't rank it as "the best" given what has come after it, ranking it the worst denies it's world changing effect.

So, again, in context, you have to compare like things. The world in which GT1 was launched and the world GT7 was launched.

Strictly speaking, no, obviously you could not "do more" in GT1 than in GT7, but it was also technically impossible for GT1 to do much more. You could not play GT1 online, as an example, because it was an impossibility at the time. Also, GT7 exists on the back of the greatness of GT1.

Without Gran Turismo 1, it could be argued that the entire history of PlayStation and Sony may not even exist today. It was THAT influential at the time.

Remember, PD was an independent developer back then. What they did was an astronomical achievement, and that's not fanboy praise. It changed everything. (Edit, I have been corrected on this one, they were not independent)

Ok, and some hate Sport Mode, while some hate the lobbies, and some hate scapes, and some hate the single player. Personally disliking the content doesn't mean it can be omitted. Personally, I found B-spec it more enjoyable than the single player races.

That's one huge shift of the goalposts to add in the context of time that was never mentioned before, but okay I'll play (just this one time though, as I generally don't like to debate a point once the goal posts have been moved this far). If we're adding in time qualifiers then GT Sport was far worse on release and even more bare bones than GT7 was on release, so your original statement is still wrong.

Strictly speaking, no, obviously you could not "do more" in GT1 than in GT7

Without the goal post shifting, this was the correct answer, which subsequently makes your original statement that it (GT7) demonstrably has less for the player to do than any game before it (with the exception of Prologue) incorrect.


And no I'm not too young to remember the early days of GT, I'm closer to being so old I've forgotten them.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Everybody be bitchin' 'bout microtransXtions... and I just be all like, whatever fam. Don't need 'em, not bothered by 'em, don't feel forced to use 'em.... just play the game, brah.

I am sorry for the vast swathes of GTP members that are aggrieved on behalf of other players though. It sucks they have to hate the game because someone else might (statistically not) feel compelled to use MTX's.

 

[Nebuc72]

In the current states of the game I personally think 7 is far better than 6. Ignoring online (as 6's is dead) the AI in 6 is the same core system as we see in 7 whilst being leagues worse.

When you can win any event using a car that's about 100-150PP behind the recommended because the AI slows down half a minute per lap to let you catch up, it completely renders any content the game has actually pointless. I really don't care if you have over 1000 cars and tons of events if I can win all of them with my eyes closed in an RCZ against supercars. If there's no challenge, there's no fun - and GT6, whilst it has the content, doesn't really let you have fun with it by virtue of the fact the AI let you win. The same goes for the licenses, they're so easy I think I did all but one of them first try (Veyron at Ascari) and even then that didn't take more than 5 attempts.

7, at the very least, and despite its lack of places to actually race - does include something of a challenge in some of these. The 1 hour Maggiore mission is difficult, the new gr1 events are difficult, and there's a handful of other events that are also somewhat difficult. Is there many? No, but at least there's some - I couldn't say that for 6. It was the dullest GT game I have ever played and I genuinely think I could beat that game constantly using underpowered cars without losing a single race.

I'm sure it was a lot more fun when the servers were up but if we're comparing Sports current state, then I think it's fair game to judge 6 by its current state, and that singleplayer is dull as anything.

 

[GTalaune]

So i booted the game again and......Yeah it's just terrible, it's gone backward since Gt Sport, the whole driving just feels off, with the suspension behaving like an on off toogle it feels like. This is not helped by the extremely poor cameras, it looks like the car is bending or wobbling like crazy, but very stiff at the same time, it's just terrible (it feels ok for race cars because they are stiff by nature)....

Honestly, GT is done, it won't change from that point. When the driving feeling is off in a racing game it's time to stop playing it anyway. think i'll try to mod GT4 with the GT3 camera (if some people are curious I can provide a link) and play from a PS2, best GT experience that you can get I think.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Everybody be bitchin' 'bout microtransXtions... and I just be all like, whatever fam. Don't need 'em, not bothered by 'em, don't feel forced to use 'em.... just play the game, brah.

I am sorry for the vast swathes of GTP members that are aggrieved on behalf of other players though. It sucks they have to hate the game because someone else might (statistically not) feel compelled to use MTX's.

Good job completely disregarding the past page and a half then.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Good job completely disregarding the past page and a half then.

Because of members like you, I use the ignore function extensively - one side effect of this, is that many, many threads, and posts don't show up for me (unless I click the little linky) - so you may well be right, I may well have missed a lot of discussion on the topic - but, that doesn't change the fact, I'm playing the game as PD intended (i.e. no grinding, no AFK etc. etc.), and have not felt compelled to use MTX's at any stage. It's unfortunate that you have, what else can I say?

 

[Voodoovaj]

That's one huge shift of the goalposts to add in the context of time that was never mentioned before, but okay I'll play (just this one time though, as I generally don't like to debate a point once the goal posts have been moved this far). If we're adding in time qualifiers then GT Sport was far worse on release and even more bare bones than GT7 was on release, so your original statement is still wrong.


Without the goal post shifting, this was the correct answer, which subsequently makes your original statement that it (GT7) demonstrably has less for the player to do than any game before it (with the exception of Prologue) incorrect.


And no I'm not too young to remember the early days of GT, I'm closer to being so old I've forgotten them.

Ok, no goal post shifting. I'll distill it down to the bare bones.

GT1 shifted the paradigm of video games on the hole. It redefined what was required to be a contender in the genre. It was such a monumental achievement as to redefine the industry and catapulting Sony from a newcomer in the console space to the dominant force. GT1 achieved far more than anyone thought possible. If you want to claim GT1 was the worst, that's a bold statement.

 

[FPV MIC]

Ok, no goal post shifting. I'll distill it down to the bare bones.

GT1 shifted the paradigm of video games on the hole. It redefined what was required to be a contender in the genre. It was such a monumental achievement as to redefine the industry and catapulting Sony from a newcomer in the console space to the dominant force. GT1 achieved far more than anyone thought possible. If you want to claim GT1 was the worst, that's a bold statement.

That's still goal post shifting though as I'm not claiming any of them are better or worse. Please stop putting words in my mouth I haven't said! I'm just claiming that you're statement, the one that I have repeated several times was incorrect.

Here, I'll repeat it again; This statement of yours is incorrect, ''it demonstrably has less for the player to do than any game before it (with the exception of Prologue).'' It's wrong! You said as much yourself! I even quoted you saying so!

 

[Voodoovaj]

Here, I'll repeat it again; This statement of yours is incorrect, ''it demonstrably has less for the player to do than any game before it (with the exception of Prologue).'' It's wrong! You said as much yourself! I even quoted you saying so!

Ah, well, in all the shuffle I can see how that got lost. Fair. My statement was hyperbole, so let's examine it.

Again, hard to compare 25 years, but let's see. I'll score it (GT1 : GT7)

• License tests - 1 pt for both (1 : 1)
• Arcade Mode - essentially custom race. 1 pt to both (2 :2)
• Spot race vs Sport Mode - different things, but strictly speaking, some different racing for the player (3:3)
• GT League - Which is the player progress - GT1 has player progress through racing, GT7 does not have a formal "league" or structure for player progress. Collector level doesn't count because all it's doing is tracking car ownership. 1 pt for GT1 (4 : 3)
• GT 1 Special events is the equivalent of GT7 championships 1 pt for each (5 : 4)
• Time trial - Technically, the both have it, but in GT1, I could save and load my ghost lap. In Gt7, I cannot. 2 pts to GT1 1 pt to GT7 (Penalty for no ghost loading at this time - That's fair because it's a legit activity that I have done for 25 years) (7 : 5)
• Memory card battle is the best "online" you could have at the time. It allowed you to race your garage versus another person's garage, so it's the equivalent of the lobby 1 pt each (8 : 6)
• GT1 had machine test, which was drag racing. 400m, 1000m, and Max Speed test. GT7 has nothing like this. 1 point for GT 1 (9 : 5)
• GT7 has missions - 1 pt for GT 7 (8 : 6)
• GT7 has circuit experience - 1 pt to GT7 (8 : 7)
• 2 player battle - 1pt each (9 : 8)

GT 7 has scapes, livery editor/customization. Scapes is it's own thing, but the livery editor is a more in depth version of customization. They aren't strictly separate things. 1 pt for scapes. 1 pt for customization/liveries. (9 : 10)

So end score ... oh WAIT!!! I can sell my cars in GT1 to manage my credits in the event that I want to raise money to get a better car. I can't do that in GT7 - 1 pt to GT1 (10 : 10)

Final score TIE!! I stand corrected so I will restate it. GT7 has the least amount of things to do since the original game. Not a glowing review. Not exactly what we thought when they said that it would be a "return".

 

[Voodoovaj]

Ok, that was a bit tongue in cheek, but this game gives me PTSD FFS.

I left gamedev for a reason. I was happy until GT7. I hadn't even posted here for like two years. This game annoys the heck out of me because at every turn I ask "wtf?"

Ok, at the core of game design, there are 7 basic forms of game play. Measurement, management, strategy, tactics, precision, timing and puzzle. Man of these are self explanatory and you can see how they would be applied to GT, which is one reason it is an evergreen title.

But, the core of the experience, your progress and the purchasing, and SELLING of cars is a giant removal of gameplay, whether you realize it or not. Your player progress is something you manage and puzzle over. You continually try to achieve more and sort out the best way of doing so. This is absent from GT7, because the progress is "collector level". All you need to do is buy a car, or be gifted a car, or, buy credits online to buy more cars. There is no game play to it.

Economies should be a management game play. You manage your income, and expenses. Selling cars allows you to manage your finances. Without that, the game play is lost. There is no management aspect anymore.

No matter what "more" they add, they really can't fix this, although the promise of selling cars might help, but I fear it will come too late in the cycle to mean anything to anyone, not to mention, they will likely stick to the ethos that a prize car has no cash value. Like, right now, I have 3 GT350 mustangs. I probably won't be able to sell any of them for credits.

 

[Terronium-12]

Everybody be bitchin' 'bout microtransXtions... and I just be all like, whatever fam. Don't need 'em, not bothered by 'em, don't feel forced to use 'em.... just play the game, brah.

I am sorry for the vast swathes of GTP members that are aggrieved on behalf of other players though. It sucks they have to hate the game because someone else might (statistically not) feel compelled to use MTX's.

Imagine, if you will, being this dismissive of a discussion without contributing anything of even minute value, all the while thinking a point is being made.

And for the umpteenth time, because people need to hear this until it's on repeat in their heads like an earwig: criticizing something does not mean you hate that thing.

"This chicken could do with some seasoning as it's a bit bland."

"Why do you hate chicken?"

That's what every single one of you that pulls this asinine strawmen sound like, and it makes you look more foolish than you already do.

 

[Silver Arrows]

It's truly amazing how you can more or less posit things as fact (that Polyphony designed this game wholly around micro-transactions and that many of its worst aspects are directly related to this) and have a bunch of jabronis more or less go 'yeah well I'm not effected by it' and then go to bat for a developer and figurehead that couldn't pick you out of a line-up even if your life depended on it.

If only I had that level of blissfully ignorant water carrying.

 

[LeonPee]

I think it's underappreciated that the language "becoming the worst" or talking about trajectories of the game for both its haters and defenders is a tacit admission that the game we got on launch was very unsatisfactory, and that a lot of the commentary on it is making assumptions about what we think the game in 6-24 months will be. With that I think if the question is framed as "Assuming the current pace and content of updates remains the same, how do you think this game will be in a year?", my answer is honestly it probably would rank among the lowest.

I don't care to compare it to GT1 because I don't know how you compare a cutting edge game to one that started and defined the genre (mass-appeal simulation racing/CaRPG) in any meaningful way. I'd be okay with saying it's better than GT2, given it had a literally broken launch in an era before online patching, but honestly if that's how low we're going, the argument has already been lost.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

It doesn’t bother me that you like it. But saying it’s the best Gt ever is just factually incorrect.

This thread will never end unless a mod closes it, which I hope they will.

It's a bunch of people arguing over a subjective topic as if there is actually a correct or incorrect answer. I quoted JScott as a prime example of this - opinions cannot be incorrect (especially "factually incorrect"). They can be based on false premise or poor information, but when it comes to whether or not GT7 is the best or worst game in the franchise, the answer depends on what YOU as an individual player aim to get out of it. This game may give you everything you want out of a GT game, it may give you nothing. It really is that simple.

 

[CBH]

No matter what "more" they add, they really can't fix this, although the promise of selling cars might help, but I fear it will come too late in the cycle to mean anything to anyone, not to mention, they will likely stick to the ethos that a prize car has no cash value. Like, right now, I have 3 GT350 mustangs. I probably won't be able to sell any of them for credits.

That's right. I still can't understand why PD wants to add thing from previous numbered games like cars & tracks for, really them things should be there at the start of the game not slowly drip fed. I don't think selling cars is going to be a game changer, even if it was already in at the start of the game. For selling cars you mostly likely to get peanuts for them anyway, so your better of winning races if you want more credits.
It still puzzles me to why we don't we get online type seasonal races like in GT6 in every 2 weeks, they were good with big credits payouts due to the login bonus.

GT7 should have had all cars from previous numbered games already in.
GT7 should have all track from previous numbered games already in.
GT7 should have had online seasonal type races like from GT6 every 2 weeks.
If all of the thing I mentioned were in the latest GT game well I would be given PD a lot heaps of praise for their effort, but the effort PD has put into GT7 is very poor compared to previous numbered games.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

GT7 should have had all cars from previous numbered games already in.
GT7 should have all track from previous numbered games already in.

These really are unrealistic expectations. All of them? For many cars it isn't even possible, but even if we include cars that they could still get, it's just too many to model in such high quality. The only way they could manage it is to continue the "standard cars" garbage. We really don't need PS2 car models on PS5. Alternatively, they could upscale the models like Forza has done up to this point, but it's still too many cars to do that with in one game. As for tracks, it's still too many. Yes, there should have been more returning tracks, but some just could not be added, and the quantity would make it an incredibly huge task. Players also expect plenty of new cars and tracks, which... well, they didn't even manage one, so people are disappointed anyway.

 

[GTboyz]

It's truly amazing how you can more or less posit things as fact (that Polyphony designed this game wholly around micro-transactions and that many of its worst aspects are directly related to this) and have a bunch of jabronis more or less go 'yeah well I'm not effected by it' and then go to bat for a developer and figurehead that couldn't pick you out of a line-up even if your life depended on it.

If only I had that level of blissfully ignorant water carrying.

Mac ?

These really are unrealistic expectations. All of them? For many cars it isn't even possible, but even if we include cars that they could still get, it's just too many to model in such high quality. The only way they could manage it is to continue the "standard cars" garbage. We really don't need PS2 car models on PS5. Alternatively, they could upscale the models like Forza has done up to this point, but it's still too many cars to do that with in one game. As for tracks, it's still too many. Yes, there should have been more returning tracks, but some just could not be added, and the quantity would make it an incredibly huge task. Players also expect plenty of new cars and tracks, which... well, they didn't even manage one, so people are disappointed anyway.

At the very least, all the premium cars from GT5 and GT6 should have been in GT7. I remember them hyping it as "next gen quality" but then most of them don't show up anymore (except for the ones with licensing issues).

 

[AutumnalGlow]

At the very least, all the premium cars from GT5 and GT6 should have been in GT7. I remember them hyping it as "next gen quality" but then most of them doesn't show up anymore (except for the ones with licensing issues).

This I do agree with. They were already high quality models, no excuse for them being absent.