Israel - Palestine discussion thread

Show me unprompted Israeli aggression. All of Israel’s wars against the Palestinians have started by the Palestinians.
And all of Palestines attacks against Israel have been started by the Israelis.

This is a war that has functionally been going on since 1948. There's almost nobody alive who hasn't had this conflict going on their entire life. Technically, Israel started it but that's not really useful when it was so long ago and when nobody alive had any input into what went on back then.

Someone has to be the bigger person and take a step back, and it makes sense that it would be the side that has de facto control of the territory as well as the overwhelming military advantage. Palestine is under existential threat, Israel is very much not.
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Here are pictures of the IDF forcefully moving the Jewish settlers who refused to leave Gaza during the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza. So yeah, Israel very much gave Gaza to the Palestinians.
So you do understand why people are upset when they're forcefully removed from their homes.

If you were dragged out of your home and forced into a ghetto, how long would it be okay for you to be upset about that for?
The Palestinians still receive their electricity and water from Israel, even though they are hostile to Israel.
Because the rest of the world would probably actually go after Israel for genocide if they cut off water entirely. Israel is an occupying power, they have a responsibility to those in the territory that they are occupying.

Hostility to an occupying power is expected and reasonable. People fight back against their captors. Violence will never go away in such a situation, that's not what humans are like. If you or Israel is waiting for the Palestinians to stop fighting before you release them from captivity, you will be waiting forever.
 
Someone has to be the bigger person and take a step back, and it makes sense that it would be the side that has de facto control of the territory as well as the overwhelming military advantage. Palestine is under existential threat, Israel is very much not.

Hostility to an occupying power is expected and reasonable. People fight back against their captors. Violence will never go away in such a situation, that's not what humans are like. If you or Israel is waiting for the Palestinians to stop fighting before you release them from captivity, you will be waiting forever.
That’s actually my honest opinion as an Israeli who supports the two states solution. As an Israeli I can only affect the Israeli policy, which IMO should be to be the bigger person, as the more powerful and advanced country. That’s why I disagree with Netanyahu, as he uses the cycle of violence to stay in power.

And with that being said, the Palestinians had plenty of opportunities to have their own state which they refused. You can’t put all the blame on Israel.

A common saying by Israel’s right wing is: “They only understand power”, that is that the Palestinians mindset of an armed conflict can only be changed by serving them a crushing blow. I disagree as human nature mostly wants retaliation when that happens. But that saying seems to have some merit as Palestinians prefer to take the heavy beating instead of releasing the hostages and forgoing armed conflict, shown by the still strong support for Hamas in Gaza and the West Bank. And by the fact they keep losing on every conflict with Israel but they don’t change their mind.
So you do understand why people are upset when they're forcefully removed from their homes.

If you were dragged out of your home and forced into a ghetto, how long would it be okay for you to be upset about that for?
A few years, maybe even less. As can be seen by the millions of Jews who immigrated to Israel (or before 1948, the Jewish cities of British mandate Palestine) after surviving the Holocaust. And the Jews who lived in Arab nations and were kicked out of their homes after 1947. They were taken all their property. I don’t see Jews today claiming they are refugees asking for a right of return to Germany. Because we moved on and have a good life. Btw moving on doesn’t mean you forgive them. That’s just being pragmatic. In Israel we didn’t forgive the Nazis or the other nations who kicked us out, and we moved on and even have peace with some of them.

Because the rest of the world would probably actually go after Israel for genocide if they cut off water entirely. Israel is an occupying power, they have a responsibility to those in the territory that they are occupying.
You are correct. Although I’m sure you can understand why giving resources to Gaza after Oct 7th wasn’t a popular opinion in Israel. Right after the attack, people were blinded by the devastation and the hate. Very reminiscent of post 9/11 in the US.

My point is that blaming Israel without giving the Palestinians any blame is wrong. They can and should change their mindset, although Israel is really bad at doing that, whether if on purpose or by incompetence. There’s no denying that if the Palestinians would stop the armed conflict and accept a partition, they’ll get it eventually and have a good life. But they’re still stuck holding 75 year old grudge. Hamas is still firing rockets into civilian population in Israel (the last one was yesterday at 6 PM into one of the villages they attacked on Oct 7th).
 
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How can we shake hands with occupiers?
Look at Europe. Whole history of Europe is history of occupations. At the end most profitable strategy is to shake hands and live in peace. There are 3 millions of Arabs living way better in Israel than Syrians or Palestinians.

This is what wealthiest Arabic and Muslim countries do - shake hands. While failed states like Yemen, Lebanon or Syria trying to hit nuclear state with sticks and stones.
Israel is a manufactured state
Like any other country in the world. Yet it prosper and aggressive states near by is failing to deliver anything to their population while feeding them with that pathetic propaganda you write here.

Nothing wrong with Arabs or Muslims.
 
At the end most profitable strategy is to shake hands and live in peace.
Well Netanyahu and his cabinet have now completely killed all possibilities for peace talks with what he's doing to the Palestinians in Gaza, as if his occupation forces weren't already "mowing the lawn" in Gaza every few years with settlers cheering on the killing of the elderly, women and children. We haven't even touched on the brutality and settler violence Palestinians in the West Bank have been enduring.
I'd like you to imagine how angry and disgusted I was as I wrote this.
There are 3 millions of Arabs living way better in Israel than Syrians or Palestinians.
They must be held accountable for their complicity with Israel's war crimes. This ongoing struggle of the Palestinians has revealed the true colors of people worldwide regardless of ethnicity and color.
with sticks and stones.
To be fair those sticks and stones have managed to break through the Iron Dome. Since they're sticks they're easy and cheap to manufacture unlike the price tag of a single Iron Dome missile 🤷🏻‍♂️.

We can downplay each other all day long but it won't affect the ongoing genocide the Israeli occupation is practicing and won't save the hostages.
 
Well Netanyahu and his cabinet have now completely killed all possibilities
Netanyahu behaded kids and raped women on October 7?
To be fair those sticks and stones have managed to break through the Iron Dome.
And? Did they come any closer to solving problems of Palestinians? All I see is brutal answer.
held accountable for their complicity with Israel's war crimes.
Collective responsibility, great
 
Food for thought, how many Hamas extremists will still be in Gaza?
I think most of them would have already fled.
 
Netanyahu behaded kids and raped women on October 7?



As for rape allegations, we have yet to see a report from the UN as bias is high on this topic.

No but he ordered 2000 pound bombs to be dropped on civilians turning them into bits and pieces as his occupation forces mock the suffering of the Palestinians on TikTok while chanting whatever satanic verses they find in their fake Torah.
In the beginning I thought it was a war of religions but this is what Netanyahu and the Zionists want you to believe. Zionists are modern day fascists and nazis.
 
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after what? What happen on October 7?

What should happen with 10 millions of Israeli citizens?
The Israelis/Jews go back to their "homeland". Or they just die. After all, they are "fake" Jews so it doesn't matter.
 
after what? What happen on October 7?
Well you might want to consider what lead up to October 7th. The Israelis oppressed the Palestinians and eventually something was gonna give. A group eventually said enough was enough our people are detained for life in Israeli prisons being tortured on a daily basis, our women are being raped and humiliated, our children are being killed with a cold blood, and we're systematically being starved to death.
What should happen with 10 millions of Israeli citizens?
Go back to where they came from. I get that a new generation was born on occupied lands but once they know what their fathers and grandfathers did to the Palestinians they might revolt and pave the way to the end of apartheid.
Israel ends apartheid, Hamas ceases to exist and Palestine goes back to being a safe haven for all monotheistic religions. But no, Zionists are too greedy and just want chaos. The bigger the mess, the merrier.
 
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Fellow Bashar al-Assad enjoyer. Guess, Imari finally find someone to talk about colonealism. Enjoy.
Eh I get this occasionally even from the Islamist opposition living in Idlib albeit with a pinch of sass and rude words which further solidifies my position 🤷🏻‍♂️.
 
"You can call it ethnic cleansing. I repeat again, the Arabs do not want, normal Arabs do not want to live in Gaza. If you want to call it cleansing, if you want to call it apartheid, you choose your definition. I choose the way to protect the state of Israel."

Yes, I will commit genocide to "protect" Israel, and I will argue about you over what words you use while I do it. If they didn't want to be killed, they shouldn't have been born where they were. :banghead:

I particularly like how she says "Arabs" when what she really means is "non-Jews".
 
I particularly like how she says "Arabs" when what she really means is "non-Jews".
It's actually worse than that, by stating that "normal Arabs" don't want to live in Gaza she's pushing Palestinians below a group she already sees as below here. It's 'othering' doubled down on, it also allows her to not say Palestinians, which the article even points out she avoids saying as much as she can.
 
Please no. Just let them further develop Eilat. Or Ashkelon, or Netanya, or Tel Aviv. This property should be developed by the Palestinians.
The ship has started sailing on these kinds of things - Netanyahu would drive the bulldozer himself to keep the right on his side. The ultra-orthodox extreme right wing Israelis need to understand that they exist purely because of the USA's unequivocal support for Israel, because the level of smugness coming out of that camp is getting pretty obnoxious. I honestly don't know what else to call the razing of Gaza other than ethnic cleansing - Israel is literally destroying the entire territory and displacing all of it's people.
 
The law being passed won't just affect Al-Jazeera in theory, it's all foreign news agencies. I'm sure Al-Jazeera won't be a politically motivated, isolated closure.

 
The law being passed won't just affect Al-Jazeera in theory, it's all foreign news agencies. I'm sure Al-Jazeera won't be a politically motivated, isolated closure.


Netanyahu sure seems set on turning Israel into a Jewish Iran.
 
Unless he's banning virtual private networks as well I'm not sure he'll be able to keep the walls of this infoghetto up.
 
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Man, do you know what the Middle East needs right now? More instability.


Iran has probably been chomping at the bit to unload on Israel and they might've just gotten their casus belli.
This is an insane escalation. Attacking another country's consulate in another country? More than anything else, this puts Israeli consulates and embassies at ridiculous risk all around the world - they are basically telegraphing that consulates are legitimate military targets, which is beyond ****ed. I genuinely don't understand Israel's approach to this conflict other than some delusional sense that nothing they do matters and they are invulnerable. No other country on earth would bomb a consulate - not even the CIA or KGB would have done this at their most reckless points - this is literally from the non-state terrorist playbook. Israel has already lost the support of almost the entire UN - it's almost like they are on a suicide mission.
 
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This is an insane escalation. Attacking another country's consulate in another country?
Cynically, from a Likud/Israeli nutjob point of view, the world cares even less about Syria than it does Palestine. They'll probably do something in Yemen next. Who's gonna stop them?

I genuinely don't understand Israel's approach to this conflict other than some delusional sense that nothing they do matters and they are invulnerable.
Is this criticism of Israel?
You're an anti-semite!
How dare you question what crimes against humanity we do??
 
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