Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[Blitz24]

Browsing the comment section on Israel Times related to this news seems to indicate this will be a deeply unpopular move in Israel. People seem to like Gallant more than Netanyahu at this point, and that's on the pro-war side.

100% it is a troubling move because he was seen as the voice of reason.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Smells like tribal spirit:

How Four Posts on Instagram Destroyed Her Life

On Oct. 7, an Israeli college student opened her phone. What she did next landed her in prison.

www.nytimes.com

In the 1950s, Jewish leaders were concerned that Nazareth might expand too far, so they drew a tight boundary around the city and established a new Jewish town, Nof HaGalil, right on its border, cinching the population in tightly.

There are jobs at a strip of factories to the north, making cabinets or truck bodies, but the tax district is drawn so that revenues flow not to the Arab areas, but to Nof HaGalil. This is one reason that the four-lane road that divides the two cities is actually a barrier between one political reality and another. On the Nazareth side, the streets are busy with activity, and seamstresses and electronics-repair shops dominate the first floors of the buildings, but the trash isn’t collected regularly, and there are hardly any public parks or playgrounds. On the Nof HaGalil side, a sterile quiet pervades, but the smoothly paved streets run past children playing in parks, and office buildings and shopping malls loom over the surrounding hills.

But that is not the whole story. Israel’s self-portrait as a democracy of all of its citizens was always in tension with its other mission, which was formalized in a Knesset bill in 2018: to be a “nation-state of the Jewish people.” In practice, this means that the government can never act against the interests of the Jewish majority, from the divvying up of tax dollars to the flow of clean water to the zoning of new towns. Arabs are citizens of the country of Israel, but not members of the Jewish nation — they are “citizen strangers,” as the George Washington University historian Shira Robinson has put it. “We don’t want them to be part of us,” Hillel Cohen, a professor of Islam and Middle East Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, told me, summarizing the mainstream position (which is not his personal view). “They can never be full Israelis.”

 

[HenrySwanson]

I'm sure no one could have seen this coming (if true):

Amsterdam police arrest more than 60 people after attacks on Israeli football fans

Amsterdam mayor condemns ‘outburst’ of violence as Israeli government flies fans home

www.theguardian.com

Spoiler: Language warning

 

[Scaff]

I'm sure no one could have seen this coming (if true):

That appears to be a rather one-sided view given the reports now coming out, and to be blunt seem driven by football hooligans' are idiots, as your second piece illustrates.

Al-Jazeera appear to offer a more balanced view.

Israeli football fans clash with protesters in Amsterdam

Details of incidents unclear, but Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters damaged Palestinian flags in city before match.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[p78]

You reap what you sow.

These Zionist truly don't understand how much a big part of the world hates them.

 

[Fezzik]

PR victory achieved. "Rescue planes" cancelled. Job done.

Meanwhile

Israel’s ousted defence minister, Yoav Gallant, has reportedly said the army has achieved all its objectives in Gaza and that Netanyahu rejected a hostages-for-peace deal against the advice of his own security establishment. Gallant was speaking to hostages’ families on Thursday, two days after being sacked by Netanyahu, and reports of his remarks quickly surfaced in Israeli media.

Israeli news article on that

After his firing, Gallant tells hostage families Netanyahu needlessly keeping IDF in Gaza

As dismissal takes effect, US expresses concern that coordination will be affected, Biden officials skeptical over PM's assurances he is not planning wider purge of security chiefs

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[sw3g005]

Christ... when even a defence minister who recently worked under Netanyahu goes against him, that's when you know this never was a war about defeating Hamas, it's a war of keeping Netanyahu in power while destroying Palestine and Palestinians in the process - or rather, if it wasn't obvious before it should be now. I doubt it'll change peoples' mind, but it'll 100% confirm what people has been saying since it started, especially given what his replacement is. Dude almost sounds more psychopathic than Netanyahu geez.

 

[Joey D]

These Zionist truly don't understand how much a big part of the world hates them.

They absolutely understand how much parts of the world hate them; they just brand it as antisemitism. My family gets it all the time from my wife's side. Several of her relatives are Zionists and claim that we are antisemitic because we don't unconditionally support Israel, and at worst, we support the Palestinians. It's gotten to the point where we don't even talk to parts of the family over it.

 

[Dennisch]

I'm sure no one could have seen this coming (if true):

Amsterdam police arrest more than 60 people after attacks on Israeli football fans

Amsterdam mayor condemns ‘outburst’ of violence as Israeli government flies fans home

www.theguardian.com

Spoiler: Language warning

This wasn't hooligans vs hooligans, this was muslims searching actively for Israelis.

 

[Strittan]

This wasn't hooligans vs hooligans, this was muslims searching actively for Israelis.

I wonder why? What harm has Israel ever done?

 

[Fezzik]

This wasn't hooligans vs hooligans, this was muslims searching actively for Israelis.

No, it was hooliganism first, by a fanbase with history of it, and then the targeted attacks. Blame on both sides.

Amsterdam’s police chief, Peter Holla, said there had been “incidents on both sides”, starting on Wednesday night when Maccabi fans tore down a Palestinian flag from the facade of a building in the city centre and shouted “**** you Palestine”.


Holla said Maccabi had vandalised a taxi, which was followed by “an online call” to mobilise taxi drivers to a casino, where 400 Israeli supporters were present. Police had safely escorted supporters out of the casino, he said.

A social media video verified by Reuters showed Maccabi fans setting off flares and chanting “Ole, ole, let the IDF win, we will **** the Arabs”, referring to the Israel Defense Forces.

The police chief said a large crowd of Maccabi supporters had then gathered on Dam Square on Thursday lunchtime and there had been “fights on both sides”.

Before the match, police escorted pro-Palestine demonstrators to an agreed protest location, but said they then split into small groups “looking for confrontation”.

Amsterdam police arrest more than 60 people after attacks on Israeli football fans

Amsterdam mayor condemns ‘outburst’ of violence as Israeli government flies fans home

www.theguardian.com

 

[p78]

When you singing **** you Palestina, we are gonna win, **** the Arabs, there will be repercussions. And then Netanyahu comparing it to Cristal night... shame on him.

Edit

I dont condone the violence. I just understand the why.

 

[Dennisch]

Perhaps I should be a bit more clear, the government is currently in bit of a shock because of the active hunting of Jews/Israelis in Amsterdam. What happened before was hooligan behaviour as usual, they're used to that.

Nobody cares about the singing, or that torn down flag. They were having a reenactment of what happened in the late 30's and 40's and that's the hot topic which will probably cost the major of Amsterdam her job, and probably some others too.

And a bunch of jew hunters will have to face antisemitism charges.

 

[inCloud]

there will be repercussions

Victim blaming at its finest. Marvelous

 

[Scaff]

Victim blaming at its finest. Marvelous

Ah, quote mining again, no surprise.

 

[HenrySwanson]

“We want Jewish blood,” is what Aaron, 33, from north London, heard from his attackers, who were Muslim men. He ended up in hospital receiving stitches, his face pouring with Jewish blood after being punched in the face for stepping in to help a Maccabi fan, who was being beaten on the floor.

Amsterdam attacks were no Kristallnacht — but Europe’s Jews should be afraid

Some Israeli football fans behaved thuggishly but the extreme and organised violence meted out to them the following day speaks of a terrifying resurgence of antisemitism

www.thetimes.com

Tired of head in sand now. It's boring, unbecoming and completely out of touch with recent events.

 

[Fezzik]

Arrest warrants issued for Israeli PM Netanyahu and former defence secretary Gallant over alleged war crimes

news.sky.com

Let’s see the spineless response from governments that called for Putin’s arrest under ICC warrants

Ah there they are

The US “fundamentally rejects” a decision by the international criminal court (ICC) to issue arrest warrants for the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the country’s former defence minister Yoav Gallant, the White House said.