It's now March; where is our promised community update?

[Swagger897]

So I've been trying to get a response out of the Gran Turismo Facebook page, and lo-&-behold, not a peep from them.

Tried to post a message (a calm and reasonable one) to their page, "Sorry, your message could not be posted at this time. Please try again later."

(part of my inner-conspirator is thinking "they are blocking all negativity/communication" "

So I decided to just message them directly, which did "work", I linked back to this thread and simply asked for any word on the matter of missed deadlines, missing content, etc. I just did it like 5 mins ago, so no response yet (if one will even come).

But if I do get a response, I'll be sure to share it here 👍

I had the same thought too...

 

[Hypergolem]

I don't know, clearly the game has issues and clearly there pipeline isn't the best...

Clearly GT6 was rushed out quicker than any GT game I can remember following gt5 and I have a feeling this is down to Sony not wanting to keep promising people a game that dsnt come out (gt5).

So I think you have to cut them some slack because like it or not these things take time, bug fixing is a nightmare and I can only imagine how hard it must be for them to do, ontop of everything else Kaz promised.

You bought the game as it was sold, not on some vague promise. That said I wish they would focus on fixing the online problems and brining the online physics models into the offline mode so there is more parity across the game.

Wrong! I bought the game because of the features that were promised. Otherwise I would have kept playing GT5...
I got GT6 because of the track editor and the community features (plus new tracks)
and where are these features? By the way these were not vague promises...

 

[Bremsbacke]

Track time? I checked I have more than 200 hours of "angry time", including "boring time", "dissapointed time" and "hate time". Well I spent 59 Euros... so how can I calculate the real value?

 

[usuhaia08]

Track time? I checked I have more than 200 hours of "angry time", including "boring time", "dissapointed time" and "hate time". Well I spent 59 Euros... so how can I calculate the real value?

With all my respect and trying not to hurt your feelings wether you are a masochist or Gran Turismo is not your game by any means.

Something has to have GT6 for a 200+ track time playthrough, don't you think?

 

[jimipitbull]

Track time? I checked I have more than 200 hours of "angry time", including "boring time", "dissapointed time" and "hate time". Well I spent 59 Euros... so how can I calculate the real value?

1 person times 200 hours, divided by four emotions equals 50PP

 

[lusitanuno]

for me, the lack of communication is worse than any delay and...
community, quick match, b-spec, course maker, data logger, gps visualizer, mobile devices, 3d compatibily
are all good things, but only as good as good they make them. still have to see how good they're making them.

the gameplay might continue being poor or at least just good when it could be very good and even excelente
(still no "race creator for career mode") i'm not sure these updates will make the gameplay any better.
car games are racing games, will racing be any better? ...maybe the online races...

 

[Bremsbacke]

These 200 hours are the hours I wanted to race but did not use the game because of frustration.

 

[Hastatus]

1) World currency inflation rates result in products costing more money or products are repackaged with less content.
2) Sony has had game prices fixed at 60$ in my region for a long while now.
3) A lot of people cannot seem to understand what the combination of 1 and 2 means.

A lot of GT Fans on this site want a 200$ game, which is not wrong; what is wrong is when those GT Fans cross over into the fantasy world of thinking they are owed a 200$ game for the price of 60$.

 

[jimipitbull]

These 200 hours are the hours I wanted to race but did not use the game because of frustration.

Check the HDMI cable.

 

[Flaren89]

Guys, but all these things and delays are going into an even greater blasfemy told by Kaz right after GT6 release: That GT7 will be ready approx for the end of this year (2014).

I can say "yes, it may be right" if GT6 it's all finished with full feature right now. But look at this point. The game is out from 3 months and untill now we got only 1 (X-Challenge) out of the 5 features they promised to give us. At this rate, B-Spec will be ready next month (maybe), community on May-June, Course Maker on August-September, GPS & Data Analysis on next year... How GT7 can be supposed to be released when GT6 is still missing of 1-2 features? From my point of view, if we are luck we will have GT6 full featured for the end of this year and for the end of 2015 MAYBE GT7 will come to us.
Sincerly, losing all hope to constantly play this game. I even reduced the youtube replays upload, because I don't have any motivation other than run in circle like an idiot over and over. And like I said in another topic, as I got my Laurea (University Graduation) and some money should income soon from the rest of my family, I will buy a new and powerfull PC (playing on an old notebook atm) to finally play Assetto Corsa. Yes, it's only a beta with few cars and tracks and, just like GT6, it's still missing some feature, but at least the are constantly improving and upgrading it (unlike GT6) and it is a REAL simulation, not a simcade like FM and GT are now.

 

[Griffith500]

That being the case, there is nothing stopping them from communicating this to their fan-base. They don't communicate, however. Our reward for allegiance is silence, which is interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as a form of contempt.

My guess is your mistake is assuming any kind of "allegiance" in the first place!

Whilst I respect and enjoy the almost symbiotic nature of the developer / gamer relationship (which is effectively one of product / "consumer"), and that's only in theory / the ideal case, it's important to remember you have a choice, and that "allegiances" are not rewarded in a purely capitalist society (outside of progressing in a power structure). Instead, one ought to be working the system to one's advantage, rather than denying its nature. I have a fondness for the GT series, but the day it no longer meets my requirements is the day I will part amicably with it.

Allegiances will lead us into walled gardens, which are totalitarian (ish) mini-states in a sense, and dampen the fundamental benefit of all products "competing" on the same terms that an open capitalist economy is meant to promote.

 

[Johnnypenso]

1) World currency inflation rates result in products costing more money or products are repackaged with less content.
2) Sony has had game prices fixed at 60$ in my region for a long while now.
3) A lot of people cannot seem to understand what the combination of 1 and 2 means.

A lot of GT Fans on this site want a 200$ game, which is not wrong; what is wrong is when those GT Fans cross over into the fantasy world of thinking they are owed a 200$ game for the price of 60$.

Economics 101. The price of almost all consumer good falls over time, in real terms, it doesn't go up. And for 60$ you still get a game that's infinitely more complicated than it was 10-15 years ago. Just like my phone, my tv, and every other electronic device ever invented.

 

[Griffith500]

Economics 101. The price of almost all consumer good falls over time, in real terms, it doesn't go up. And for 60$ you still get a game that's infinitely more complicated than it was 10-15 years ago. Just like my phone, my tv, and every other electronic device ever invented.

Aye, but there's a subtle difference between materials and engineering knowledge evolving (driven by scientific progress via processes centuries old) and software projects ballooning (driven by an as-yet incomplete and immature avenue of mathematics / science).

Granted, there's purchasable technology available to help manage that with less human input, but ultimately the only way to make games (as we expect them to be: "AAA") profitably is to sell ridiculous numbers of them, and most of that cost is attributed to content production (because code is dangerous to evolve). Which is why there's a focus on marketing and capturing the largest possible customer base, which often implies dumbing down and doing what the shareholders think the market needs.

So the question is, should we have those expectations of games? I think we'd have much better experiences offered to us if we let the experimental nature of game design take its course, as long as we're willing to accept the odd rough diamond and the odd total failure. We can then build on (and evolve) what was successful instead of continually repeating past successes, only with more spectacle this time (which eventually implodes once there's no more spectacle to be had), out of sheer fear of reprisal from an uncompromising public.

When the difficulty of the ever increasing aesthetic detail required from content (I'm not sure of the analogous challenge in consumer electronics, say) is finally overcome (diminishing returns), the primary obstruction will be code complexity. But by then it's possible the public is more used to purely visceral improvements and won't accept any compromise on that front for true innovation in the underlying mechanics, which would of course unlock more possibilities for spectacle and aesthetic expression.

 

[Hastatus]

Economics 101. The price of almost all consumer good falls over time, in real terms, it doesn't go up. And for 60$ you still get a game that's infinitely more complicated than it was 10-15 years ago. Just like my phone, my tv, and every other electronic device ever invented.

A work of art is not the same as a physical appliance product. Good art goes up in price. Technological devices go down in price because engineers learn how to make them as cheaply as possible. The quality / duration of the product often goes down with the price going down. Price also goes down because the investment into the research of developing the product is recouped and no more research is required because the product has been invented. Video games are a work of art that transcend generic implements. They get more complex as you yourself have admitted. More complicated means more time, more testing, more money. Costs of manufacturing go down when manufacturing processes are developed that allow the product to be manufactured more cheaply, often with robotics instead of people who need medical insurance. Costs go down when companies set up their manufacturing plants in cheaper foreign countries with cheaper labor.

Movie tickets have increased in price: because movies cost more to make.
Frozen pizzas have increased in price: because agricultural produce is getting more expensive.

I have watched games drop in price over many years. The games have often been more complex and more costly to produce. Code is code. More code costs more money. A 1080P 120 HZ television is more expensive than a 1080P 60 HZ television. A SMART TV is more than a Basic television.

Only when the quality of the code is a measure of the price of a game will people get closer to what they want; you must try to see the value in the code as opposed to a plastic and metal disc.

 

[Johnnypenso]

A work of art is not the same as a physical appliance product. Good art goes up in price. Technological devices go down in price because engineers learn how to make them as cheaply as possible. The quality / duration of the product often goes down with the price going down. Price also goes down because the investment into the research of developing the product is recouped and no more research is required because the product has been invented. Video games are a work of art that transcend generic implements. They get more complex as you yourself have admitted. More complicated means more time, more testing, more money. Costs of manufacturing go down when manufacturing processes are developed that allow the product to be manufactured more cheaply, often with robotics instead of people who need medical insurance. Costs go down when companies set up their manufacturing plants in cheaper foreign countries with cheaper labor.

Movie tickets have increased in price: because movies cost more to make.
Frozen pizzas have increased in price: because agricultural produce is getting more expensive.

I have watched games drop in price over many years. The games have often been more complex and more costly to produce. Code is code. More code costs more money. A 1080P 120 HZ television is more expensive than a 1080P 60 HZ television. A SMART TV is more than a Basic television.

Only when the quality of the code is a measure of the price of a game will people get closer to what they want; you must try to see the value in the code as opposed to a plastic and metal disc.

Do a google search on "real dollars". I paid $900 for a 29" Proscan CRT TV about 15 years ago. I bought a 55" Sony LED HDTV for $1200 a few months ago. I got a 100 times better product for less real$$. Video games are not a work of art, the Mona Lisa is a work of art. I don't see any GT discs hanging up in the Louvre. It's a consumer product same as any other. They design it, manufacture it, we buy it.

 

[mohammad]

community, quick match, b-spec, course maker, data logger, gps visualizer, mobile devices, 3d compatibily

now that you mentioned all the promised features.. there are more to that too
ayrton senna content + DLCs + more than 20 VGT cars
if after 3months they released only one VGT its gonna take years to release all of those features/content

& now we hear they are working on GT7 too?!
do they even have enough men to work on all of these or was it all just a lie? or...
they already have made the updates /contents /VGT cars , but they keep waiting for car shows to release them!! which makes them bad people if they see how upset/bored fans are & yet dont give a 🤬


what the GT6 news section is for anyway? it says there has been an update AFTER you update your game so what?! i know there is an update because i have updated my game PD.. whats your point ? dont tell me there has been an update we can recognize the new bugs !

that section should be used to keep the fans updated about progression of the promised content

 

[Hastatus]

Video games are not a work of art, the Mona Lisa is a work of art. I don't see any GT discs hanging up in the Louvre. It's a consumer product same as any other. They design it, manufacture it, we buy it.

Here is where your view is flawed. Get ready for an onslaught of people who vehemently disagree with your statement. One which you might never live down. I have an NES copy of the original Metal Gear hanging up on my wall.

 

[TurismoBad]

Maybe there are other forms of "Shokunins" (one person designs one car from start to finish) when it comes to other aspects of the game ?

Would explain why they are so incredibly slow. In 3 years a Forza game is made with plethora of features and options.

PD on the other hand In 3 years only managed to create a skeleton of a game.

 

[jimipitbull]

Do a google search on "real dollars". I paid $900 for a 29" Proscan CRT TV about 15 years ago. I bought a 55" Sony LED HDTV for $1200 a few months ago. I got a 100 times better product for less real$$. Video games are not a work of art, the Mona Lisa is a work of art. I don't see any GT discs hanging up in the Louvre. It's a consumer product same as any other. They design it, manufacture it, we buy it.

If Mona Lisa was an original track, would she still be a work of art?

 

[Morphisor]

If Mona Lisa was an original track, would she still be a work of art?

That obviously depends on how good the ride is...

 

[nascarfan1400]

That obviously depends on how good the ride is...

Heh. Heh.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Here is where your view is flawed. Get ready for an onslaught of people who vehemently disagree with your statement. One which you might never live down. I have an NES copy of the original Metal Gear hanging up on my wall.

Snaaaaake!!! I have an empty spot on the wall in my study...maybe I'll frame up the original GT and see how it looks

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

Let's get this conversation back on the rails, shall we?

Needless to say, getting my hopes up for mon/tues update.

That could happen, and if that was the case, expect a few in-game "hot updates" throughout the week (If that's what they're called) to coincide with some cars revealed at the Geneva Motor Show.

 

[nascarfan1400]

How much would GTP hate me If I said the update was out?


It's not, don't get excited.

 

[OdeFinn]

Language barrier, correct translation: "I thought it will leap year"

 

[Lawndart]

That being the case, there is nothing stopping them from communicating this to their fan-base. They don't communicate, however. Our reward for allegiance is silence, which is interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as a form of contempt.

In fact that is the rule, not the exception with publishers.

You never want to leave customers wondering... But you do want them anticipating.

"Protocol" in most publishers for AAA games (when they know it's not exactly as it should be) is to engage the vocal minority because press picks it up more often than not and it's actually an opportunity more than something to deal with.

BUT, truth be told, these publishing side employees are very Jr and not really gamers, let alone the fact that they haven't been in a dev team so they are easily paralyzed and actually fear the vocal minority. This is why Devs often jump in... Because they don't trust those little monkeys to rep the product.

When there is a void, you can choose to fill it or let it collect crap like a gutter... But it will fill with something.

Anyone in the game industry with; marketing, sales, analyst, evaluator, etc. in their title is not relevant to a game beyond the business. Everyone in the industry fits into 2 categories; the art of games and the business of games... Despite one being very strong and the other more traditional and product agnostic, they do need each other to reach maximum success.

If anyone here is one of those people, in the game industry, your likely a bit bruised in the area of pride, but you know what I'm talking about. Games are a form of art and expression that reach people 'guised' as merchandise...

And as such, this is what offends me the most with GT 6... When you break it down, it has more in common with a marketing tool than a game... And that works with the auto industry as it's all marketing. If you were Kaz how else would you appeal to an industry that only does what they do to support selling more cars, and the brand awareness that leads to more car sales.

I digress.

 

[4everdelayed]

1) World currency inflation rates result in products costing more money or products are repackaged with less content.
2) Sony has had game prices fixed at 60$ in my region for a long while now.
3) A lot of people cannot seem to understand what the combination of 1 and 2 means.

A lot of GT Fans on this site want a 200$ game, which is not wrong; what is wrong is when those GT Fans cross over into the fantasy world of thinking they are owed a 200$ game for the price of 60$.

I respectfully disagree. You're making abstraction of production costs. Were games really worth $60 back in 2007? Probably not. Also, I paid €60 for GT6. Convert that into $ and tell me it's alright getting $60 worth of content (obviously being sarcastic here because $60 worth of content my ass).

In this case, decreasing supply in addition with increasing (or constant) prices are mainly the result of market power. It has nothing to do with inflation. Basically, they know they can put out crap like that because they know it will sell (special thanks to the PDIDF for this). The reason being that there are no close substitutes for Gran Turismo on the PlayStation, a situation that was crafted by none other than Sony and PD themselves. That's fine, they're digging their own grave but whatever..

My problem is that they advertised features that are still not in the game. My problem is that my money is used to fund the development of said missing features. I paid for a product, I did not take part in a kickstarter project. My problem is that they were thinking about GT7 even before GT6 was released.

"We don't want to take too long on Gran Turismo 7," Kazunori told us. "Best-case scenario? Next year. In GT6 we really had to tune the software 100 per cent to maximise the PS3's architecture, but of course the PS4's hardware is much better, so I think the overall quality of the game across the board will be boosted when you come to play it".

- 21 November 2013 :3
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/gran-turismo-7-is-coming-in-2014-2013-11-20

At this point, we're just trying to salvage what can be salvaged. We know it was a mistake to spend all of that money on GT6. Many here will not do the same mistake with GT7 and are switching to other platforms. We have no reason to believe that they will finish GT6 or if the new features will be any good.

Daily reminder:

Community
Players can create their own clubs, communicate with one another in the forums and organise race events for their members. It is possible to select from a private racing club, and a public racing club that is open to everyone. This feature will be added in a future update.

Quick Match
This mode is for those who want to get in and race online right away. Matching is performed according to preset regulations, and the race will start when there are enough participants. This feature will be added in a future update.

B-Spec
The B-spec mode is a mode where you give precision instructions to your driver. This popular feature from previous versions of GT will be added in a future update. Look forward to the new, more powerful B-Spec mode.

Course Maker
This feature, available at a later stage through an update, will allow you to create your own custom tracks that can be driven in the game. Additionally, in another update we will add the possibility to generate a track by capturing the GPS coordinate data of a mobile app while you are driving that course. This GPS-generated tracks will be available in the game as playable content.

Data Logger
This feature allows you to analyse your saved replay data to show Speed, Engine RPM, Throttle Input, Gear Position, Steering Angle, etc. in a graphical format. This feature will be added in a future update.

GPS Visualiser
In a future update, we will add the GPS Visualiser. This is a feature that allows you to import Controller Area Network (CAN), used to regulate automobile systems, and GPS coordinate data from a real life car into Gran Turismo 6, and visualise the data as a replay in the game. The feature is planned to be compatible with the Toyota Motor Corporation’s CAN-Gateway ECU.

Mobile Devices
Online community features can be accessed through the iOS Safari and standard Android browsers. In addition, a future update will provide linked features through a specialised mobile device app.

3D Compatibility
Compatibility with 3D TV’s will be added in a future update.

Anyway, /rant. I hope to see you "soon" in a shuffle race on GT6.

How much would GTP hate me If I said the update was out?


It's not, don't get excited.

Maybe there are other forms of "Shokunins" (one person designs one car from start to finish) when it comes to other aspects of the game ?

Well, I don't know but this is really not what they should be doing, it's backwards. Specialization and labor division have been already discussed at lengths a couple of centuries ago.

 

[Lawndart]

Track time? I checked I have more than 200 hours of "angry time", including "boring time", "dissapointed time" and "hate time". Well I spent 59 Euros... so how can I calculate the real value?

I calculate this personally actually... My target is $1 per hour... If I exceed purchase price then I'm fully vested. Anything beyond that and I'm gaining a return in my entertainment $.

But racing games are suppose to last much much longer so .25 might be a better figure... But I do do this ironically.

It ends up being the cheapest for of entertainment on the planet... How much do you pay taking a date to a movie? My last movie cost me around $40... Even I sneak food in theaters now lol.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I calculate this personally actually... My target is $1 per hour... If I exceed purchase price then I'm fully vested. Anything beyond that and I'm gaining a return in my entertainment $.

But racing games are suppose to last much much longer so .25 might be a better figure... But I do do this ironically.

It ends up being the cheapest for of entertainment on the planet... How much do you pay taking a date to a movie? My last movie cost me around $40... Even I sneak food in theaters now lol.

To further this analogy, what if you paid for Star Trek 3 (new version) and ended up with Meryl Streep and Julia Roberts, but you got to watch it all day for one price and 2 or 3 times per showing, the reels broke?

 

[Lawndart]

I respectfully disagree. You're making abstraction of production costs. Were games really worth $60 back in 2007? Probably not. Also, I paid €60 for GT6. Convert that into $ and tell me it's alright getting $60 worth of content (obviously being sarcastic here because $60 worth of content my ass).

In this case, decreasing supply in addition with increasing (or constant) prices are mainly the result of market power. It has nothing to do with inflation. Basically, they know they can put out crap like that because they know it will sell (special thanks to the PDIDF for this). The reason being that there are no close substitutes for Gran Turismo on the PlayStation, a situation that was crafted by none other than Sony and PD themselves. That's fine, they're digging their own grave but whatever..

My problem is that they advertised features that are still not in the game. My problem is that my money is used to fund the development of said missing features. I paid for a product, I did not take part in a kickstarter project. My problem is that they were thinking about GT7 even before GT6 was released.
- 21 November 2013 :3
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/gran-turismo-7-is-coming-in-2014-2013-11-20

At this point, we're just trying to salvage what can be salvaged. We know it was a mistake to spend all of that money on GT6. Many here will not do the same mistake with GT7 and are switching to other platforms. We have no reason to believe that they will finish GT6 or if the new features will be any good.

Daily reminder:


Anyway, /rant. I hope to see you "soon" in a shuffle race on GT6.

One thing to factor in; game prices have only increased once in 30-40 years. Back in the 80's msrp was $50.

They went to 60 with the 360 and ps3.

Ironically PC prices have always been the same.

When I got into games 20 years ago a team over 10 people was big... Now? 100-200 is not that uncommon.

Then in the last decade used games allowed retailer to sell my game 5x times over... Further reducing the funds...

To help you with the math, on average a publisher makes around $32 per unit before cogs and manufacturing (it nets around 20). A retailer makes around $9-11 per unit... And sometimes covers shipping costs... And the retailer margin increase exponentially when reselling.

Yes, there is a lot of money in games, but it's harder to capitalize on.

So developers are doing more with less every year as salaries and inflation keep going up... Not just a few years, but the past 30+...

Edit: yes there are more gamers, but the average gamer age is 36 and getting older every year so the 90's were the hay day for developers.