Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[Johnnypenso]

T10 e-marketing staff in disguise

You are probably done when you dont like facts that contradict you... i have a ps2 here with me right now. I've compared ps2 cars with ps3 standard cars, i can tell you that in game the ps2 ones look clearly worse.

That's like saying my hi def movies looks worse on my old tube tv. PS4 cars would look worse on a PS2 because the resolution on the PS2 is worse than the PS3/4. It's the lower resolution of the system that makes them look worse.

If you could play Forza on the Playstation 3, would nobody buy Gran Turismo for not being the better game?

Logic doesn't enter into the equation for most GT fans. If they made up their mind logically, the offline/career mode and the 1998 AI would have torpedoed the series a long time ago. It's basically a racing game with no racing but apparently the huge car and track count is all that matters, even if they are varying in quality. Some of us that are actually into racing will move onto greener pastures for the next gen but the vast majority will probably stick with GT7 because it's comfortable and familiar and probably partly because the AI are so easy. Some people get a good feeling of accomplishment just from winning, even when the opposition couldn't beat my Grandmother in a race.

 

[Zelalem]

Depends of what we consider "ps3 quality"... one thing is gallery view, in which the premiums reflect a huge detail in quality, and the other is the in-game thing. The premiums seem to get down-graded in-game and a lot of standards can be considered in-game ps3 quality.

Are you serious? I've never seen someone saying standard cars are ps3 quality. I can't handle such comments...

 

[Samus]

Thanks for that.

Now in there quote is the true situation of why premiums are lacking. If and when PD decide to hire, nothing will change.

If you could play Forza on the Playstation 3, would nobody buy Gran Turismo for not being the better game?

Not entirely sure what you mean there? If PD hired as many people to match the total of T10+Outsourced staff they could knock out as many cars in theory. That isn't possibly realistic depending on what that first number is but any increase on PD modelers is going to increase output. Also of course, nobody is stopping PD do the same as T10 and outsource to get more models done.

As for the second question, well as good a question it is we'll never know.

 

[Nooboogering]

I guess you didn't realise I was quoting Back To The Future there.

But to answer your last point seriously, what does it matter if more people are online now? Are you saying that because people weren't online to complain about GT3 they just bought the game anyway, but now instead with GT7 they'll come online to complain and not buy it?

There may be more visible complaints but that doesn't change the fact GT3 was hugely popular in sales despite the low car count.

Plus GT3 looked glourius compared to anything on a console and the AI was good! It had decent rallycross and Special Stage Route 11!

 

[NixxxoN]

Standard cars are PS3 quality in game, you call that a fact? They look better because they're at a higher internal resolution, nothing more.

That's like saying my hi def movies looks worse on my old tube tv. PS4 cars would look worse on a PS2 because the resolution on the PS2 is worse than the PS3/4. It's the lower resolution of the system that makes them look worse.

Resolution is not relevant in this case. Ps2 in-game cars are downgraded compared to Ps3 standards because the PS2 can't move them at full detail. Same for Ps3 in-game premiums, they are downgraded in comparison to gallery view to fit the ps3 capabilities.

Are you serious? I've never seen someone saying standard cars are ps3 quality. I can't handle such comments...

I said SOME. Because not all standards are the same quality.

 

[Spagetti69]

Where do they get off by calling 2 generations old code as "standards" anyhow?

If that's there's standards then there pretty low to be fair.

Premiums are standards surely?

 

[SCER]

To be honest I think I'm against PD keeping standards at this point. I've been pummeled into submission by the likes of Samus and Johnnypenso (), and although personally I'd prefer them to stay, I can picture the reviews, as well as the howls of derision from Forza fans that would greet any positive comment I made about the game on the internet. Standards staying would be better for me but worse for Gran Turismo.

Where do they get off by calling 2 generations old code as "standards" anyhow?

If that's there's standards then there pretty low to be fair.

Premiums are standards surely?

To be fair 'premiums' are a fairly large cut above anything else on seventh generation consoles.

 

[Nooboogering]

Wish I could of read seen some really good discussion comments here.

Do you mean constructively approaching PD and asking for standard cars to be placed in GT7 only if you make them premium.

No.

That good discussion hasn't turned up.

 

[NixxxoN]

Where do they get off by calling 2 generations old code as "standards" anyhow?

If that's there's standards then there pretty low to be fair.

Premiums are standards surely?

no one knows what will be gt7 standards, some people assume they're the current ps3 standards and I suppose they wont. Probably they will be the RUF-like quality standards. Decent looking with no interior.

To be fair 'premiums' are a fairly large cut above anything else on seventh generation consoles.

I think its pretty clear GT5/6 premiums are ps4 quality and they're gonna obviously be there in GT7 as premiums, and I think in general they look better than 95% of 360 forza cars, but of course some haters would say otherwise.

 

[Samus]

Resolution is not relevant in this case. Ps2 in-game cars are downgraded compared to Ps3 standards because the PS2 can't move them at full detail. Same for Ps3 in-game premiums, they are downgraded in comparison to gallery view to fit the ps3 capabilities.

They're still PS2 assets, which is what we're talking about carrying over. Nobody said they carried over in-game PS2 models, they copied over the best version they had but they're not anywhere where near PS3 quality. If you think they are you're either blind or in denial. Yes, the premium PS3 models are lower in game than in photomode but they're still way ahead of the PS2 models which, once again, are just copied and pasted from PS2. I could do this all day, but I don't care to since you're so stubborn.

There are no standard cars in GT5 or GT6 that are the same quality as premium cars in game, not even the RUFs or other upgraded models. They're still below that quality, if they weren't they would be premium models.

 

[SCER]

I hate to digress but what's up with that helmet? It looks like it's been pasted in.

 

[diegorborges]

Keep the standards: bad
Remove the standards: bad

PD can't win with the folks.

Keep the cars, have a switch. All win.

 

[NixxxoN]

They're still PS2 assets, which is what we're talking about carrying over. Nobody said they carried over in-game PS2 models, they copied over the best version they had but they're not anywhere where near PS3 quality. If you think they are you're either blind or in denial. Yes, the premium PS3 models are lower in game than in photomode but they're still way ahead of the PS2 models which, once again, are just copied and pasted from PS2. I could do this all day, but I don't care to since you're so stubborn.

There are no standard cars in GT5 or GT6 that are the same quality as premium cars in game, not even the RUFs or other upgraded models. They're still below that quality, if they weren't they would be premium models.

OMG... I know they're still ps2 assets...
The thing that maybe you dont get is there are many levels of quality being mixed here, just in case I do a list:

1) PS2 in game quality (lowest)
2) PS2 gallery quality (low-medium) - same as PS3 standard in-game quality
3) PS3 premium in game quality (medium-high)
4) PS3 premium gallery view quality (highest)

Which basically means a difference quality from in-games of both consoles. I know standards are much worse than premiums, but regarding to PS3 in-game, the difference in both car quality classes, appears to be not THAT big.

And please, no, dont show any photomode pics, its not the same as in-game mode.

 

[Nooboogering]

I don't see much complaining, just a back and forth discussion from two viewpoints, something you very rarely seem to be able to participate in, instead just jumping in with a strawman comment or something unrelated in general.



Standard cars are PS3 quality in game, you call that a fact? They look better because they're at a higher internal resolution, nothing more.

The only difference there is the lighting, the car model is exactly the same.

What is it with this strawman comments?

The standard cars are quality. You know what time it is? They looked great some time ago. Some have great textures and the lighting is down to PD's expertise.
The standards are staying, nobody knows what they Will look like and weather or not they may change their minds.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Where do they get off by calling 2 generations old code as "standards" anyhow?

If that's there's standards then there pretty low to be fair.

Premiums are standards surely?

No no no. When they say Standard, it's just a name for cars with low poly count. It's not an actual standard.

 

[Earth]

Standards in GT7 = GT getting another poor damage model because they arent made of 3D parts.

Im guessing standard tracks are probably returning too. Isnt there over 400 premium cars in GT6? Isnt that enough?

 

[TokoTurismo]

The standard cars are quality.

Standards in GT7 = GT getting another poor damage model because they arent made of 3D parts.

Im guessing standard tracks are probably returning too. Isnt there over 400 premium cars in GT6? Isnt that enough?

Kaz: "We need more quantity, even to use old assets to achieve such a goal of having the most content of any game, despite us using old assets from two generations back. I'm even considering using assets from the PS1 era." *Kaz doesn't laugh because he's serious about wanting more quantity over quality*

 

[2clicks]

We have already seen how certain standards have been improved on in GT6, so what makes everyone think that PD will sit back and do nothing about the standards for GT7?

 

[NixxxoN]

Standards in GT7 = GT getting another poor damage model because they arent made of 3D parts.

Im guessing standard tracks are probably returning too. Isnt there over 400 premium cars in GT6? Isnt that enough?

You dont know how standards will be in GT7. Anyway, personally couldnt care less about damage model. It would be a waste of resources to please crash kids.
And for me 400 cars i definitely not enough.

 

[sangdude82]

I'm quite disappointed that standard cars will be included on GT7 but I'll still buy the game...

 

[SCER]

We have already seen how certain standards have been improved on in GT6, so what makes everyone think that PD will sit back and do nothing about the standards for GT7?

This. If half of them are upgraded to 'semi-premium' quality then perhaps they won't be so jarring. And it's likely, the replicas/clones/(whatever you want to call them) for instance will almost certainly have upgraded exteriors, seeing as they've already upgraded the exteriors of the Miata/MX-5s and premiumised two EVO VIs.

 

[IneedSchool]

Why are we argueing about this? Shouldn't we just tell Kaz's translator to kick Kaz's ass so he will make the right decision to hire more people to make all cars premium?

 

[Nooboogering]

I'd call it "GT4 cars remastered in HD" at the most.

Not entirely sure what you mean there? If PD hired as many people to match the total of T10+Outsourced staff they could knock out as many cars in theory. That isn't possibly realistic depending on what that first number is but any increase on PD modelers is going to increase output. Also of course, nobody is stopping PD do the same as T10 and outsource to get more models done.

As for the second question, well as good a question it is we'll never know.

Maybe PD is stopping PD or even Sony. But right now the news says 'standards remain'. It reminds me of the time when I received the news of no cockpit view in GT5.
Still enjoyed it..

 

[Jose Mendonca]

It doesn't matter, as Imari said it's 2014 and your telling me a team of 500 people couldn't make 73 cars with interiors?

Oh and that post is BS as it's pointed out many many times in the thread itself. The person who made it even took down his list.

Forza 4 had 600 cars with fully interiors and exteriors. You're telling me a team that is first party and that releases a game every now and then (5 years between GT4 and GT5, 3 years between GT5 and GT6) couldn't make at least 1200 cars with interiors and exteriors?

They should add this to the game. One more, who cares about quality?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Standards staying would be better for me but worse for Gran Turismo.

Congratulations:tup:👍 I'm sorry you felt pumelled that wasn't my intention I do try and leave my personal feelings out of my posts. My entire position on Standards is just as you described. Personally good for some, not good for others, but I believe it's bad for the franchise. It this wasn't a GTP fansite, and we weren't talking about Gran Turismo so we could leave our personal bias aside, I doubt there is a single next gen AAA game on the planet that we would consider it acceptable to include 10 year old assets purely for the sake of having big numbers on the box. Because it's "our game" we become so emotionally invested we can't see the forest for the trees.

The issue with releasing the game unfinished is the same. When it comes to other games fans are in an uproar when something is half finished and sold to the public. With GT all you get is fanboys telling you to calm down and wait and everything is coming and don't worry. That stuff would be laughable outside of GT or in the real world in general.

no one knows what will be gt7 standards, some people assume they're the current ps3 standards and I suppose they wont. Probably they will be the RUF-like quality standards. Decent looking with no interior.

You say this so casually. PD had 3 years to upgrade the standard cars for GT6 and all we got was a handful. They've had 7 months to continue to upgrade standards and we've gotten zero. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this is probable in the least. If it was easy on the resources they'd be done already.

 

[SimTourist]

I remember how people used to say that Forza only has popular supercars and Gt has a lot of obscure models. Well...
GT6: Nissan R390 still standard.

Forza 5 - full modelled

And people say PD loves nissan

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I'm quite disappointed that standard cars will be included on GT7 but I'll still buy the game...

And that's why there's still Standards. What's the point of updating them when people are still buying it.

 

[Nooboogering]

That's like saying my hi def movies looks worse on my old tube tv. PS4 cars would look worse on a PS2 because the resolution on the PS2 is worse than the PS3/4. It's the lower resolution of the system that makes them look worse.

Logic doesn't enter into the equation for most GT fans. If they made up their mind logically, the offline/career mode and the 1998 AI would have torpedoed the series a long time ago. It's basically a racing game with no racing but apparently the huge car and track count is all that matters, even if they are varying in quality. Some of us that are actually into racing will move onto greener pastures for the next gen but the vast majority will probably stick with GT7 because it's comfortable and familiar and probably partly because the AI are so easy. Some people get a good feeling of accomplishment just from winning, even when the opposition couldn't beat my Grandmother in a race.

Couldn't wait for the day that I could race my friends and family online. Flipping fantastic to be racing around the Nurb chasing my brothers, like we used to do on PS2..
Offline is good, online is where it's at.

 

[SCER]

And people say PD loves nissan

Watching that upset me deeply. It's like watching your favourite player leave your club to play for your rivals *ahem* Ashley Cole *ahem* Cesc Fabregas *ahem* Robin van Persie *ahem*, but anyway.

 

[2clicks]

Maybe PD is stopping PD or even Sony. But right now the news says 'standards remain'. It reminds me of the time when I received the news of no cockpit view in GT5.
Still enjoyed it..

Ah yes, the days when GT5 standards had no interiors, and I mean none, not a black mass that mars realism when omitting the interior view entirely was a more realistic choice.