Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[steve30x]

I've had enough practical jokes for one evening. Good night, future boy!

It was you who started this. We al should know by now that Theres a whole lot more people online than there was when GT3 was released. There will be a lot of complaints if standard cars were dropped.

 

[Samus]

It was you who started this. We al should know by now that Theres a whole lot more people online than there was when GT3 was released. There will be a lot of complaints if standard cars were dropped.

I guess you didn't realise I was quoting Back To The Future there.

But to answer your last point seriously, what does it matter if more people are online now? Are you saying that because people weren't online to complain about GT3 they just bought the game anyway, but now instead with GT7 they'll come online to complain and not buy it?

There may be more visible complaints but that doesn't change the fact GT3 was hugely popular in sales despite the low car count.

 

[SimTourist]

But some people were complaining about the lack of content in Forza 5, so apparently outsourcing doesn't provide that much of a help.

Yeah, except Forza 5 now has 304 nextgen ready cars, if I remember correctly GT5 launched with just over 200. And with Forza 5 we didn't have to wait for 6 years. I honestly believe T10 will release Forza 6 with all the cars from FM4 featured (which had 671 cars) and of course add new cars from Horizon 2 and Forza 6 itself.

 

[steve30x]

I guess you didn't realise I was quoting Back To The Future there.

But to answer your last point seriously, what does it matter if more people are online now? Are you saying that because people weren't online to complain about GT3 they just bought the game anyway, but now instead with GT7 they'll come online to complain and not buy it?

There may be more visible complaints but that doesn't change the fact GT3 was hugely popular in sales despite the low car count.

Yes thats what I am saying. If they werent online they werent there to complain. Its like the way GTP is after exploding with the past few years of most threads that is full of nothing but complaints.

 

[SimTourist]

Yes thats what I am saying. If they werent online they werent there to complain. Its like the way GTP is after exploding with the past few years of most threads that is full of nothing but complaints.

I doubt PD reads english forums anyway, and they seem to be in a constant crunch which can't possibly be good. And Kaz seems to prefer going racing the ring instead of managing his studio effectively. Though I admit they're getting better, GT6 improved a lot from GT5. Most importantly whoever designed and implemented the new UI needs to get a damn good bonus in fat shiny white envelope.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Its good for the individual company, obviously bad for the country, that gets less jobs and less tax income.

Well, in any case if PD can do everything themselves, why cant Turn10? Answer is greed and ambition to get bigger benefit. Their pay DLC agenda is ridiculous.

You are so desperate to defend everything PD does that you pull out the "outsourcing is bad for America" card. Really? Laughable dude, just laughable.

 

[NixxxoN]

You are so desperate to defend everything PD does that you pull out the "outsourcing is bad for America" card. Really? Laughable dude, just laughable.

Desperate, why? I'm not a PD employee, I dont need to defend them. On the other hand some people think Turn 10 alwyas do everything right, which is the laughable thing. An american (or canadian, more or less the same) defending outsourcing jobs out of america is indeed laughable, like shooting in the own foot.

 

[NixxxoN]

No, because they did what PD don't, took a quality over quantity approach on a new console generation. Forza 4 on the other hand was bigger than GT5/6 in PS3/Xbox 360 level content. Way ahead.

Why you keep on assuming quality>quantity which is your opinion and not a fact.
You also say forza4 had more content which is also false, GT5/6 has had more content than any forza (cars/tracks)

On the same gen they were bigger in quantity, FM4 has 671 full modelled cars with interiors for example. GT6 is approaching 400.

How many of them were by paying DLC? So many, its ridiculous. its like paying 2x or 3x for a game.

 

[SimTourist]

Desperate, why? I'm not a PD employee, I dont need to defend them. On the other hand some people think Turn 10 alwyas do everything right, which is the laughable thing. An american defending outsourcing jobs out of america is indeed laughable, like shooting in the own foot.

Turn10 don't always do everything right, but neither do PD, or any developer for that matter. The are always good and bad sides to any game, I doubt there's a single uniformly loved game out there.
In regards to outsourcing, why should a buyer like us care about how the game is created? We pay $60 for all games, irregardless of how a particular game was developed and by who.

 

[Nooboogering]

Why aren't PD hiring a lot of new people? The answer is greed. Don't hire a lot of people, doesn't help their country, other countrys, other companies, other family's and it doesn't help us, because we have to deal with standard cars or bad sounds for example. Don't hire many new people is worse than outsourcing.

PD are greedy?

What about Sony or even Microsoft?

 

[SimTourist]

Why you keep on assuming quality>quantity which is your opinion and not a fact.
You also say forza4 had more content which is also false, GT5/6 has had more content than any forza (cars/tracks)

How many of them were by paying DLC? So many, its ridiculous. its like paying 2x or 3x for a game.

Of course GT had more content if you take into account ps2 cars and tracks.
The DLCs are entirely optional, the base game had 500 cars which is still more premiums than GT6 and FM4 released 3 years ago.

 

[Samus]

Why you keep on assuming quality>quantity which is your opinion and not a fact.

Where do I state that it's factually better? That's right, I don't.

You also say forza4 had more content which is also false, GT5/6 has had more content than any forza (cars/tracks)

Read what I wrote again. I said PS3/Xbox 360 level content. GT5 had ~200 PS3 level quality cars, GT6 has ~400. Forza 4 had 500+, all at Xbox 360 quality. Tracks are harder to outright determine but the tracks on GT5 and GT6 are certainly not all to the same level of quality. Forza 4 were again, all to the same quality level and probably had more at PS3/360 level quality.

How many of them were by paying DLC? So many, its ridiculous. its like paying 2x or 3x for a game.

DLC is an optional extra. Forza 4 had 500+ cars on disc.

 

[Nooboogering]

Joke of the day. When you're stubbornly inclined to hang on to assets from two console generations ago, you have anything but high standards.

What?

Then tell me, future boy, who's President of the United States in 2018?

Obama.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Desperate, why? I'm not a PD employee, I dont need to defend them. On the other hand some people think Turn 10 alwyas do everything right, which is the laughable thing. An american (or canadian, more or less the same) defending outsourcing jobs out of america is indeed laughable, like shooting in the own foot.

Turn off your CNN and MSNBC and come into the real world. Only people that don't understand economics go on about outsourcing like you do. You're just making yourself look foolish.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

This thread has taking a funny turn somewhere

From kaz-interview-on-eurogamer-standards-are-here-to-stay

to Forza vs gt

to Now cnn economics msnbc

good times

 

[SCER]

Where do I state that it's factually better? That's right, I don't.



Read what I wrote again. I said PS3/Xbox 360 level content. GT5 had ~200 PS3 level quality cars, GT6 has ~400. Forza 4 had 500+, all at Xbox 360 quality. Tracks are harder to outright determine but the tracks on GT5 and GT6 are certainly not all to the same level of quality. Forza 4 were again, all to the same quality level and probably had more at PS3/360 level quality.

DLC is an optional extra. Forza 4 had 500+ cars on disc.

Debatable, some of the renders were absolutely rubbish.

The Mercedes CLK-LM for instance, looks very similar to it's Midnight Club 3 render:

 

[NixxxoN]

Where do I state that it's factually better? That's right, I don't.

Read what I wrote again. I said PS3/Xbox 360 level content. GT5 had ~200 PS3 level quality cars, GT6 has ~400. Forza 4 had 500+, all at Xbox 360 quality. Tracks are harder to outright determine but the tracks on GT5 and GT6 are certainly not all to the same level of quality. Forza 4 were again, all to the same quality level and probably had more at PS3/360 level quality.

DLC is an optional extra. Forza 4 had 500+ cars on disc.

Well, but GT still has those ported PS2 cars which are not exactly as in PS2, they still were adapted and moidified in order to fit to the PS3, which is also a big effort (you seem to make it sound like they dont count at all)
Also I believe premium cars in GT are better than Forza X360 cars.

Turn off your CNN and MSNBC and come into the real world. Only people that don't understand economics go on about outsourcing like you do. You're just making yourself look foolish.

ok whatever. I never watch CNN or MSNBC by the way.

 

[SimTourist]

This thread has taking a funny turn somewhere

From kaz-interview-on-eurogamer-standards-are-here-to-stay

to Forza vs gt

to Now cnn economics msnbc

good times

Well, there isn't much to discuss about standards, we've had plenty of time to do that in the last 15 years they exist

 

[Welsh-Fury]

Wish I could of read seen some really good discussion comments here.

 

[synon]

Yeah, except Forza 5 now has 304 nextgen ready cars, if I remember correctly GT5 launched with just over 200. And with Forza 5 we didn't have to wait for 6 years. I honestly believe T10 will release Forza 6 with all the cars from FM4 featured (which had 671 cars) and of course add new cars from Horizon 2 and Forza 6 itself.

Quite possibly, however it's a bit irrelevant as I wasn't really making a comparison with Forza.

 

[SimTourist]

Also I believe premium cars in GT are better than Forza X360 cars.

Not by a huge margin.

Quite possibly, however it's a bit irrelevant as I wasn't really making a comparison with Forza.

Sorry then)

 

[Samus]

Well, but GT still has those ported PS2 cars which are not exactly as in PS2, they still were adapted and moidified in order to fit to the PS3, which is also a big effort (you seem to make it sound like they dont count at all)

Are the standard cars PS3 quality or not? No, they're not. Which is what I was talking about. I'm not sure if you struggle to follow conversations but no, standards do not count at all when we're talking about PS3/Xbox 360 quality assets and which game has more.

Also, most standard cars were exactly copied and pasted.The only difference in a lot of them was they were in higher resolution, which actually made them look worse for the most part, just like displaying a 320x240 image at 1920x1080 looks worse.

Also I believe premium cars in GT are better than Forza X360 cars.

Not relevant to the point. They both made the most of their hardware, something the standard cars and tracks most certainly don't.

 

[jimipitbull]

This thread has taking a funny turn somewhere

From kaz-interview-on-eurogamer-standards-are-here-to-stay

to Forza vs gt

to Now cnn economics msnbc

good times

Many threads follow a similar trend. Usually triggered by certain people making the same complaints over and over again.

 

[NixxxoN]

Are the standard cars PS3 quality or not? No, they're not. Which is what I was talking about. I'm not sure if you struggle to follow conversations but no, standards do not count at all when we're talking about PS3/Xbox 360 quality assets and which game has more.

Also, most standard cars were exactly copied and pasted.The only difference in a lot of them was they were in higher resolution, which actually made them look worse for the most part, just like displaying a 320x240 image at 1920x1080 looks worse.

Not relevant to the point. They both made the most of their hardware, something the standard cars and tracks most certainly don't.

Depends of what we consider "ps3 quality"... one thing is gallery view, in which the premiums reflect a huge detail in quality, and the other is the in-game thing. The premiums seem to get down-graded in-game and a lot of standards can be considered in-game ps3 quality.
Also, standards that came to PS2, seemed to look worse in-game than in the menus aswell.

 

[Samus]

Depends of what we consider "ps3 quality"... one thing is gallery view, in which the premiums reflect a huge detail in quality, and the other is the in-game thing. The premiums seem to get down-graded in-game and a lot of standards can be considered in-game ps3 quality.

Yeah, right. I think we're done here with arguments like that.

 

[NixxxoN]

Many threads follow a similar trend. Usually triggered by certain people making the same complaints over and over again.

T10 e-marketing staff in disguise

Yeah, right. I think we're done here with arguments like that.

You are probably done when you dont like facts that contradict you... i have a ps2 here with me right now. I've compared ps2 cars with ps3 standard cars, i can tell you that in game the ps2 ones look clearly worse.

 

[Samus]

Many threads follow a similar trend. Usually triggered by certain people making the same complaints over and over again.

I don't see much complaining, just a back and forth discussion from two viewpoints, something you very rarely seem to be able to participate in, instead just jumping in with a strawman comment or something unrelated in general.

T10 e-marketing staff in disguise

You are probably done when you dont like facts that contradict you... i have a ps2 here with me right now. I've compared ps2 cars with ps3 standard cars, i can tell you that in game the ps2 ones look clearly worse.

Standard cars are PS3 quality in game, you call that a fact? They look better because they're at a higher internal resolution, nothing more.

The only difference there is the lighting, the car model is exactly the same.

 

[Downhill Dino]

You are probably done when you dont like facts that contradict you... i have a ps2 here with me right now. I've compared ps2 cars with ps3 standard cars, i can tell you that in game the ps2 ones look clearly worse.

I'd call it "GT4 cars remastered in HD" at the most.

 

[SimTourist]

Debatable, some of the renders were absolutely rubbish.

The Mercedes CLK-LM for instance, looks very similar to it's Midnight Club 3 render:

Which is exactly why T10 chucked a lot of cars away in FM5. Still, the model you've shown certainly isn't worse than standards in GT. Slightly inaccurate maybe, but that's understandable when you have the biggest car list in the genre that contains only the assets that belong to their gen.

 

[Nooboogering]

T10 outsource so that they can get a bigger and better game, all to the same quality. That's why T10 are able to produce 100 cars or more a year and PD can't.

Thanks for that.

Now in there quote is the true situation of why premiums are lacking. If and when PD decide to hire, nothing will change.

If you could play Forza on the Playstation 3, would nobody buy Gran Turismo for not being the better game?