Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[machschnel]

Losing, say, 600 standard cars means we'll also be losing 600 different physics models to drive with.

I've always wondered if every car in Gran Turismo is unique in terms of the physics representing it, like, do Polyphony go out and test/collect data on every single car or is there a lot of copy and pasting going on?

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Imari, I understand you have no intention of ending our little issue?

 

[SimTourist]

I've always wondered if every car in Gran Turismo is unique in terms of the physics representing it, like, do Polyphony go out and test/collect data on every single car or is there a lot of copy and pasting going on?

There's a physics model where you enter all the parameters of the car and the physics model calculates all the physical interactions and behavior of the car. I remember PD said that in GT4 each car had 800 parameters entered into the system. It's probably even more complex these days.

 

[NixxxoN]

Here, I found someone, forward this to Kaz:
http://www.glassegg.com/portfolio.php

Lol wow. So forza 5 is not developed by Turn10 anymore, but by Glassegg... interesting....

 

[SimTourist]

Lol wow. So forza 5 is not developed by Turn10 anymore, but by Glassegg... interesting....

Glassegg models the majority of cars for FM.

 

[Yarf]

Well there isnt really any point keeping all of them, just bring some back and upgrade them, if that's possible of course. I remember when forza had those world challenge race cars and when they were removed in forza 4 i felt depressed for some reason, i thought those were fun to race with in previous titles

 

[NixxxoN]

Glassegg models the majority of cars for FM.

Ok I got it, and now that I remember having heard that NFS and Forza shared same cars, is it about Glassegg i suppose...?

 

[Zelalem]

Ok I got it, and now that I remember having heard that NFS and Forza shared same cars, is it about Glassegg i suppose...?

No offense, but this was one of the worst attemps ever.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I'm surprised the employees at PD haven't gotten any lay offs yet, but I bet soon since their going to be pushed real hard due to the competition. So Kaz better start thinking of getting assistance from other companies and not try to be "I don't need others to aid me because I'm special enough to do thing on my own..."

Imari, I understand you have no intention of ending our little issue?

Hey man, if you want to end it, just say "Oh lord @Imari, I give up oh wise one. "

 

[H3avyM3tal]

^Sorry man, my sarcasm detector is offline atm, so I don't know what you mean.

BTW, where did that image of Kaz surface from? Did he ever say something along the lines of "It's my game, screw you"?

 

[NixxxoN]

No offense, but this was one of the worst attemps ever.

attemps at what?

I'm surprised the employees at PD haven't gotten any lay offs yet, but I bet soon since their going to be pushed real hard due to the competition. So Kaz better start thinking of getting assistance from other companies and not try to be "I don't need others to aid me because I'm special enough to do thing on my own..."

So you actually approve this turn 10 "sellout"? what they did is basically get cheaper "labour force" an advanced one but still cheaper labour force, by hiring vietnamese people to model stuff for them. Thats great for america isnt it? The japanese are smarter than that and they prefer to keep their jobs for themselves.

 

[SimTourist]

I'm surprised the employees at PD haven't gotten any lay offs yet, but I bet soon since their going to be pushed real hard due to the competition. So Kaz better start thinking of getting assistance from other companies and not try to be "I don't need others to aid me because I'm special enough to do thing on my own..."


Hey man, if you want to end it, just say "Oh lord @Imari, I give up oh wise one. "

PD are too busy making the features they promised long ago and GT7. I doubt anyone there has time to play and assess competition, Xbone isn't even available in Japan yet. And games like PCars and AC aren't big enough yet for PD to take notice of. They did have a 360 though:

 

[SimTourist]

Actually it's interesting if you take a look at how the work space is organized at PD and T10, they are very similar in fact.
This is PD:

And this is T10:

Notice the same air duct on the ceiling, tons of car magazines and scale models, open floor plan, though T10 seems to get more sunlight.

 

[SimTourist]

attemps at what?

So you actually approve this turn 10 "sellout"? what they did is basically get cheaper "labour force" an advanced one but still cheaper labour force, by hiring vietnamese people to model stuff for them. Thats great for america isnt it? The japanese are smarter than that and they prefer to keep their jobs for themselves.

How is cheaper labour force bad? It is very good for the business and allows them to make games faster. They've said that there's simply not enough good modellers in the US, so they've decided to use outsourcing. But part of in game assets are created in-house but there's virtually no difference in quality.

 

[Zelalem]

I don't get the hate for outsourcing, because some companies have proven time and time again, that they can deliver stunning work. Where do those people, which criticise outsourcing think PD gets their employes? The PD staff wasn't raised in PD or created in a lab. They were people from outside of PD, just like those people in other companies. PD had to do one job, if they outsoure. Make sure that the quality is good enough. But as someone already said, every outsourced car would be better than standard cars anyway.

 

[NixxxoN]

How is cheaper labour force bad? It is very good for the business and allows them to make games faster. They've said that there's simply not enough good modellers in the US, so they've decided to use outsourcing. But part of in game assets are created in-house but there's virtually no difference in quality.

Its bad for USA in this case, because they lose jobs and they give them away to the Vietnamese. Easy and simple to understand. This is called "doing a sellout" since forever. Of course its a short term benefit for turn 10 because they save money, but perhaps they should think of doing it themselves if they want to progress as a developer. And I refuse to believe that a country with more than 300 million people hasn't got enough good 3D modelers.

I don't get the hate for outsourcing, because seome companies have proven time and time again, that they can deliver stunning work. Where do those people, which criticise outsourcing think PD gets their employes? The PD staff wasn't raised in PD or created in a lab. They were people from outside of PD, just like those people in other companies. PD had to do one job, if they outsoure. Make sure that the quality is good enough. But as someone already said, every outsourced car would be better than standard cars anyway.

Well, outsourcing from country A to country B is bad for country A, obviously.

There you go, Turn 10 proud american studio http://economyincrisis.org/content/the-outsorcing-of-american-jobs-hurts-the-economy-on-every-level

 

[SimTourist]

Its bad for USA in this case, because they lose jobs and they give them away to the Vietnamese. Easy and simple to understand. This is called "doing a sellout" since forever. Of course its a short term benefit for turn 10 because they save money, but perhaps they should think of doing it themselves if they want to progress as a developer. And I refuse to believe that a country with more than 300 million people hasn't got enough good 3D modelers.

If young people don't want to go and study 3D modelling, then why would you make them? It's an artistic field, not everyone has talent for drawing, I can't even draw a proper circle lol, let alone replicate a sophisticated real world object. And on average asian people tend to be very talented in intellectual fields, there are many very talented singers, artists and musicians coming from asian countries these days. To succeed in a creative environment you have to be very passionate and dedicate a ton of time to educating yourself. But even if there are graduates in 3D modelling in the US, not all of them might want to work in videogames, or racing genre in particular. There are so many variables, a talented artist can be very good with character modelling but completely suck at making cars. And I don't see how they don't progress as a developer, every forza has improved over the last version in many aspects, while PD couldn't improve sounds for 15 years straight. Talk about progress.

 

[Samus]

Outsourcing content to cheaper but just as skilled contractors is not new or exclusive to Turn 10. It's simple business.

 

[NJ72]

whilst I get what people are saying about it detracting from the overall feel of the game, Forza 5 currently has 245 cars (including DLC cars); GT6 has 410 premium cars currently (including DLC).

Presuming that GT7 carries over all of the premium cars AND keeps the standards I don't see how this is a bad thing?

Perhaps, as has been suggested previously, there could be an option to disable standards from single player - that way the people who think it ruins the game can play with the 410+ cars and the rest of us can enjoy the 1200+ cars available.

Just my 2 cents, but I honestly don't see a downside myself.

To each their own

 

[SimTourist]

Outsourcing content to cheaper but just as skilled contractors is not new or exclusive to Turn 10. It's simple business.

Yeah, as a human resource manager I will look for the skills rather than look at skin colour or nationality. If one person can do 5 times the amount of work of another person in the same timeframe and at the same quality, then the choice for me as an employer is pretty clear. This practice isn't exclusive to gaming industry, any good business looks for the best staff possible.

 

[Zelalem]

Its bad for USA in this case, because they lose jobs and they give them away to the Vietnamese. Easy and simple to understand. This is called "doing a sellout" since forever. Of course its a short term benefit for turn 10 because they save money, but perhaps they should think of doing it themselves if they want to progress as a developer.

It doesn't work that way. If a company don't find enought talent in their country or don't want to hire new people for others reason, they will not make so much cars or just use cars from the past generation. As SimTourist said not everyone wants to work for a racing game company or doesn't live in their country. There are many reasons for them to stay in their country and not move to the country the companie is in. In fact, talented people have enough options to choose from. PD and Turn10 aren't alone out there.

 

[Samus]

whilst I get what people are saying about it detracting from the overall feel of the game, Forza 5 currently has 245 cars (including DLC cars); GT6 has 410 premium cars currently (including DLC).

Presuming that GT7 carries over all of the premium cars AND keeps the standards I don't see how this is a bad thing?

Perhaps, as has been suggested previously, there could be an option to disable standards from single player - that way the people who think it ruins the game can play with the 410+ cars and the rest of us can enjoy the 1200+ cars available.

Just my 2 cents, but I honestly don't see a downside myself.

To each their own

But how likely is that? The career mode would have to be completely changed if you include or don't include 800 cars. Either that or they just don't make use of the standard cars in the career mode so it suits both options, and that also seems highly unlikely.

 

[Brend]

So, when we cannot bash Forza as a series we now turn to the way they employ people as somehow that is relevant to the actual games we play?

Because that seems to be the gist of it.

 

[SimTourist]

whilst I get what people are saying about it detracting from the overall feel of the game, Forza 5 currently has 245 cars (including DLC cars); GT6 has 410 premium cars currently (including DLC).

Presuming that GT7 carries over all of the premium cars AND keeps the standards I don't see how this is a bad thing?

Perhaps, as has been suggested previously, there could be an option to disable standards from single player - that way the people who think it ruins the game can play with the 410+ cars and the rest of us can enjoy the 1200+ cars available.

Just my 2 cents, but I honestly don't see a downside myself.

To each their own

It's not exactly correct to compare a current-gen game with last-gen game, Forza 4 had 600+ cars that were pretty close to GT's premiums. No quite there but close. FM5 is a step above both FM4 and GT6. And something tells me FM6 is coming before GT7. And if this list is correct then FM5 has 304 cars in total including the DLC. http://www.kudosprime.com/f5/carlist.php
I'm not entirely sure as I haven't bought any DLC, I'm at level 72 and still got just 35 cars in my garage. Plenty more to get in the stock game.

 

[Samus]

So, when we cannot bash Forza as a series we now turn to the way they employ people as somehow that is relevant to the actual games we play?

Because that seems to be the gist of it.

Pretty much. PD don't outsource so anyone that does must be evil, outsourcing is bad, etc. It's been the same for years, something is bad until PD do it, then it's celebrated or with something like micro-transactions, blame is shifted away from PD.

 

[Zelalem]

Pretty much. PD don't outsource so anyone that does must be evil, outsourcing is bad, etc. It's been the same for years, something is bad until PD do it, then it's celebrated or with something like micro-transactions, blame is shifted away from PD.

Quick reminder. Forcing people to pay for multiplayer access was bad, until...

 

[NixxxoN]

If young people don't want to go and study 3D modelling, then why would you make them? It's an artistic field, not everyone has talent for drawing, I can't even draw a proper circle lol, let alone replicate a sophisticated real world object. And on average asian people tend to be very talented in intellectual fields, there are many very talented singers, artists and musicians coming from asian countries these days. To succeed in a creative environment you have to be very passionate and dedicate a ton of time to educating yourself. But even if there are graduates in 3D modelling in the US, not all of them might want to work in videogames, or racing genre in particular. There are so many variables, a talented artist can be very good with character modelling but completely suck at making cars. And I don't see how they don't progress as a developer, every forza has improved over the last version in many aspects, while PD couldn't improve sounds for 15 years straight. Talk about progress.

It doesn't work that way. If a company don't find enought talent in their country or don't want to hire new people for others reason, they will not make so much cars or just use cars from the past generation. As SimTourist said not everyone wants to work for a racing game company or doesn't live in their country. There are many reasons for them to stay in their country and not move to the country the companie is in. In fact, talented people have enough options to choose from. PD and Turn10 aren't alone out there.

That sounds like bollocks in my opinion. USA is a very large country im sure lots of americans would love to work in videogame car modelling... however, I'm pretty sure Turn 10 prefers to pay $1000 on a vietnamese salary rather than a $3000 american one. Thats typical self-hurting american business methods these days. Yeah I its not Turn10 exclusive, so many american companies do it and perhaps they should rethink that. In Europe we obviously got this problem aswell. No wonder we have unemployment problems in western countries.

 

[SimTourist]

http://www.myforza.net/f4/carlist.php
Apparently FM4 had 671 cars in total, jesus.

 

[Samus]

That sounds like bollocks in my opinion. USA is a very large country im sure lots of people would love to work in videogame car modelling... however, I'm pretty sure Turn 10 prefers to pay $1000 on a vietnamese salary rather than a $3000 american one. Thats typical self-hurting american business methods these days. Yeah I its not Turn10 exclusive, so many american companies do it and perhaps they should rethink that. In Europe we obviously got this problem aswell.

Welcome to basic worldwide economics.

 

[Zelalem]

That sounds like bollocks in my opinion. USA is a very large country im sure lots of people would love to work in videogame car modelling... however, I'm pretty sure Turn 10 prefers to pay $1000 on a vietnamese salary rather than a $3000 american one. Thats typical self-hurting american business methods these days. Yeah I its not Turn10 exclusive, so many american companies do it and perhaps they should rethink that.

I guess money is one of the reasons, but if the most talented people are outside of the country you are in, you start hiring them. Simple as that. Besides, those methods aren't america exclusive or dumb. Maybe we should rethink your behavour. Wanting more for less isn't the best method for the economy, because the first one which has to suffer are the normal people in a company.