Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[NixxxoN]

Wouldn't the effort needed be better focused on new cars?

Old cars are cool aswell (lots of standards are old cars). Yourself have an old Jag as avatar.

 

[Rustyhole]

There is a pretty sizable difference between the amount of work to be done though.

Autosport: 78 cars

GT6: 800 cars.

Codemasters: 500 people
PD: 150 people.

No excuse for Autosport not to have full interiors.

All of PD is focused on GT no matter how big they are.

How many at CM worked on Autosport. Surely not the full 500 and probably not even as many as PD. At least I hope not.

Kinda funny they made a big deal of it when it looks the way it does. Definitely got the GT fans peed off with Kaz with the "we listen to our fans" vote for a while anyway.

Autosport is just a hole filler until their PS4 games are ready. A way to keep in the public eye just like Arkham Origins was for Batman

 

[Cosbuster]

Why not also add all the cars from the PS1 games? It's the next logical step to take.

 

[Gerarghini]

Why are you turning this thread into FM-GT6 fan war? Criticizing PD for all their mistakes is fine, but all you seem to do is to tell everyone how much better FM is?

1. Now you are using a "standard" track (imo worsen than standard cars) for comparision? You could compare Spa,
Nordschleife (don't know whether FM4 had a accurate layout), Monza or Suzuka.
2. No body denies that Forza uses much better sound samples, but if you compare replays of Forza 4 (Why are you always using FM5, a One game?) and GT6 both sound very good and have nice effects. Drive the new Red Bull or a 97T, PD has still to make many strides but they are slowly getting the job done.
3. PD is hitting the framerate target if you play the game at the same resolultion as 360 forzas while offering all the other advantages GT has. I can understand if people have problems with juddering while using the higher resolution output (1440x1080), I notice it too but i am using cockpit cam for most of the time. But no one can tell me that GT6 runs at 20FPS, it may hit those number occacionally, but not the majority of the time. Even then I prefer 40-50FPS average at higher resolution to locked 60 FPS at 720p because I sit very far away from the TV and if you use cockpit view, it sometime gets really hard to notice cars in the mirrors. Yes, I prefer a ~40% higher rez output. If it bothers you too, turn down resolution.
4. And my immersions brakes by driving for 3 hours at a evening track day on the nordschleife with friends while the sky staying blue? This bothers me more than visible damage and low rez shadows.


GT6 has many faults, no one can deny this. I hate the fact that PD still tries to recycle content from 2001. I also dislike PDs japanese bias (or Nissans influence...) regarding the car list. And nothing bothers me more than seeing **** boxes as the Deltawing being faster than both the R18/TS030. Yet I can't understand it when people slash PD for giving us day/night cycles and dynamic weather... If framerate is so important to you play it on 720P or play FM/pc sims, but don't dare to put your fingers on those two features!

Ok then

Point one, Spa-Franchorchamps

They're close, I'm not gonna lie. I'd personally go with FM5, but GT's rendition is just as good.

2. No denying that Gran Turismo and Polyphony are getting better, they're just taking way to much time.

3. GT5 already had problems keeping a constant 60 fps with a resolution of I think was 1280x1080? Why would a developer push that even further to 1440x1080 and all but eliminate any consistent 60 fps? Not to mention an increase in visuals mean jack if standard cars, cockpits, and tracks exist on screen. I should never have to lower my resolution just to hit a smooth 60, it is PD's fault that the game cannot keep a constant fps. Why then can most other driving simulators can hit this (or at least a constant value, I rather have GT6 play at 720 with a constant 60, then at 1080 and having the frame rate all over the place).

4. My immersion is killed by the piss-poor framerate, hitting the wall at 200 mph only to drive away in pristine condition, a cockpit view with no interior or moving dials, standard cars with baked on shadows, standard cars and tracks in general, terrible sounds, jaggy shadows and smoke, etc., etc.

If Forza can do day-night and weather transitions better, Gran Turismo has lost another trump card in this GT vs. FM debate. We all want GT to get better, but keeping standard cars isn't going to help.

 

[Johnnypenso]

There is a pretty sizable difference between the amount of work to be done though.

Autosport: 78 cars

GT6: 800 cars.

Codemasters: 500 people

PD: 150 people.

No excuse for Autosport not to have full interiors.

Autosport is exactly what they advertised it to be...a racing game first and foremost. If you want car count Gran Turismo is the king of that. If you actually want to actually race the cars in the game, Grid Autosport's AI would be Michael Schumacher vs. GT being your Gran, without her glasses. 1200 cars aren't much good for anything but hot lapping and running TT's if you can't race head to head, door to door, lap after lap with good AI. GAS has that, GT doesn't and probably never will.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

@Gerarghini
Forza 5 is a xBox One game? FM 5 looks amazing, no doubt about it, for sure it looks better than GT6, but it also runs at much superior hardware. And yes, I don't want PD to keep standards... I can accept the semi-premiums like the Rufs, but no more Auto-Union Type C.

 

[SimTourist]

Why are you turning this thread into FM-GT6 fan war? Criticizing PD for all their mistakes is fine, but all you seem to do is to tell everyone how much better FM is?

1. Now you are using a "standard" track (imo worsen than standard cars) for comparision? You could compare Spa,
Nordschleife (don't know whether FM4 had a accurate layout), Monza or Suzuka.
2. No body denies that Forza uses much better sound samples, but if you compare replays of Forza 4 (Why are you always using FM5, a One game?) and GT6 both sound very good and have nice effects. Drive the new Red Bull or a 97T, PD has still to make many strides but they are slowly getting the job done.
3. PD is hitting the framerate target if you play the game at the same resolultion as 360 forzas while offering all the other advantages GT has. I can understand if people have problems with juddering while using the higher resolution output (1440x1080), I notice it too but i am using cockpit cam for most of the time. But no one can tell me that GT6 runs at 20FPS, it may hit those number occacionally, but not the majority of the time. Even then I prefer 40-50FPS average at higher resolution to locked 60 FPS at 720p because I sit very far away from the TV and if you use cockpit view, it sometime gets really hard to notice cars in the mirrors. Yes, I prefer a ~40% higher rez output. If it bothers you too, turn down resolution.
4. And my immersions brakes by driving for 3 hours at a evening track day on the nordschleife with friends while the sky staying blue? This bothers me more than visible damage and low rez shadows.


GT6 has many faults, no one can deny this. I hate the fact that PD still tries to recycle content from 2001. I also dislike PDs japanese bias (or Nissans influence...) regarding the car list. And nothing bothers me more than seeing **** boxes as the Deltawing being faster than both the R18/TS030. Yet I can't understand it when people slash PD for giving us day/night cycles and dynamic weather... If framerate is so important to you play it on 720P or play FM/pc sims, but don't dare to put your fingers on those two features!

I'm trying to give both games credit where its due.
1. Thats one of the problems with GT series, Forza never had premium and standard differences in their cars and tracks, pick any car and track and they're gonna look consistent with the rest of the game. Tsukuba which is shown in the screens provided obviously look pretty good in FM4, but T10 didn't think it was gonna be good enough for nextgen, so they removed it. I expect it to come back in FM6 completely remade like T10 always does it, and at the same time I expect GT7 to feature the same version they have now. I hope they prove me wrong and at least slap on higher res textures at least, but with PD you never know. Spa and Monza never featured in forza on last gen, Nurburgring was an inaccurate version pulled from PGR but the trackside detail was better than GT, if anything Bizarre were known to be very good with graphics, and Suzuka looks better in FM4, but again wasn't featured in FM5 because it wasn't up to nextgen standard.


2. Sorry, but FM5 and GT6 were released pretty close to each so they indicate where the two companies are at in regards to their series. Forza has been building its sound library for a decade now, it was mentioned in one of the interviews that they had 1500+ cars recorded at the time FM4 released. With GT it was revealed that they used to record their sounds in neutral with just 4 mics, Forza always used a dyno and 8-10 mics around the cars, now both companies are using dynapack for recording, but T10 has a huge headstart in this department.
3. At the same resolution GT6 somehow appear a lot muddier than FM4, hell its even muddier than GT5P and GT5. Even in full res GT6 looks muddier than GT5P and GT5 despite the increase in res. I don't know how they managed that.
4. Opinions and all, I understand. Sorry if I'm bashing GT too much, it's just that I've been playing it for the last 14 years and its tough to see how the franchise that was once far ahead of its competition starts to slip behind.

 

[Samus]

Old cars are cool aswell (lots of standards are old cars). Yourself have an old Jag as avatar.

Pretty sure he meant new to GT, not new as in their age.

 

[Devil240Z]

It was either this or cut a massive number of cars. I would rather have more cars.

 

[ironman44321]

Autosport is exactly what they advertised it to be...a racing game first and foremost. If you want car count Gran Turismo is the king of that. If you actually want to actually race the cars in the game, Grid Autosport's AI would be Michael Schumacher vs. GT being your Gran, without her glasses. 1200 cars aren't much good for anything but hot lapping and running TT's if you can't race head to head, door to door, lap after lap with good AI. GAS has that, GT doesn't and probably never will.

Once again Johnny, good to know but not even close to on topic. There is NO REASON for a game with 78 cars to not all be fully modeled. Especially since they we're likely running a team larger than PD.

But to reply to your post. AI apparently isn't the only thing that matters in a racing game since very few people are as enthused with Autosport as you are.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Once again Johnny, good to know but not even close to on topic. There is NO REASON for a game with 78 cars to not all be fully modeled. Especially since they we're likely running a team larger than PD.

But to reply to your post. AI apparently isn't the only thing that matters in a racing game since very few people are as enthused with Autosport as you are.

They made a design choice, like PD made a design choice when they put a black interior into 600 cars. No one led you to believe otherwise with GAS so if cockpits are a requirement for you, then you wouldn't buy the game, it's pretty simple. Same goes for GT. If you want pretty cars and tracks it's the game for you. If you want good AI and offline racing, don't kid yourself, that's not what GT is about. GT doesn't pretend they have good AI so anyone that buys the game and is disappointed with it is foolish.

AI is the only thing that matters when it comes to racing offine. Whether you have 10 cars or 1000 cars, there is no offline racing without good AI. If your primary interest in a game is race simulation, good, competitive, on pace AI is a requirement. Without it, it's a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. This is no slight on GT because GT is not a racing simulator, it's a driving simulator and while it pays lipservice to racing, that's not it's forte'.

 

[glassjaw]

2. No denying that Gran Turismo and Polyphony are getting better, they're just taking way to much time.

I'll deny it!

Metacritic scores:

Gran Turismo: 96
Gran Turismo 2: 93
Gran Turismo 3: 95
Gran Turismo 4: 89
Gran Turismo (PSP): 74
Gran Turismo 5: 84
Gran Turismo 6: 81

Now I'm not going to claim that Metacritic scores alone are proof of anything, but they do mirror a collective disappointment that's been growing with every release. Technically, Polyphony has improved over the years: they've figured out how to get the most out of notoriously difficult hardware, they've improved their physics engine, and they've become more accurate in their modeling of tracks and cars, for example. But those strengths alone don't mean Gran Turismo, the franchise, is improving. And if standard cars and backwards AI are any indication, I'd say GT is getting worse - not better.

 

[Samus]

I hope those happy with this decision never have ANY complaints about visuals in any game in the future.

 

[Gerarghini]

I'll deny it!

Metacritic scores:

Gran Turismo: 96
Gran Turismo 2: 93
Gran Turismo 3: 95
Gran Turismo 4: 89
Gran Turismo (PSP): 74
Gran Turismo 5: 84
Gran Turismo 6: 81

Now I'm not going to claim that Metacritic scores alone are proof of anything, but they do mirror a collective disappointment that's been growing with every release. Technically, Polyphony has improved over the years: they've figured out how to get the most out of notoriously difficult hardware, they've improved their physics engine, and they've become more accurate in their modeling of tracks and cars, for example. But those strengths alone don't mean Gran Turismo, the franchise, is improving. And if standard cars and backwards AI are any indication, I'd say GT is getting worse - not better.

I was implying that the sounds were getting better (subjective), but I know that the series itself isn't.

 

[glassjaw]

I was implying that the sounds were getting better (subjective), but I know that the series itself isn't.

Understood - sorry I didn't read the post you quoted fully through

 

[NixxxoN]

I'll deny it!

Metacritic scores:

Gran Turismo: 96
Gran Turismo 2: 93
Gran Turismo 3: 95
Gran Turismo 4: 89
Gran Turismo (PSP): 74
Gran Turismo 5: 84
Gran Turismo 6: 81

Now I'm not going to claim that Metacritic scores alone are proof of anything, but they do mirror a collective disappointment that's been growing with every release. Technically, Polyphony has improved over the years: they've figured out how to get the most out of notoriously difficult hardware, they've improved their physics engine, and they've become more accurate in their modeling of tracks and cars, for example. But those strengths alone don't mean Gran Turismo, the franchise, is improving. And if standard cars and backwards AI are any indication, I'd say GT is getting worse - not better.

GT is getting better with each title. Each title is improved over the previous one.
Dont pay much attention to metacritic scores. The score decreasing is pretty much the "wow" factor being missing in the last two games - there was a wow factor in GT1 (first game) in GT3 (much improved due to PS2) and in GT5 the wow factor was missing because of GT5 Prologue.
GT2 got a great score thanks to so many improvements over GT1.

 

[SimTourist]

GT is getting better with each title. Each title is improved over the previous one.
Dont pay much attention to metacritic scores. The score decreasing is pretty much the "wow" factor being missing in the last two games - there was a wow factor in GT1 (first game) in GT3 (much improved due to PS2) and in GT5 the wow factor was missing because of GT5 Prologue.
GT2 got a great score thanks to so many improvements over GT1.

How come with Forza the wow factor remained during the whole generation

 

[NixxxoN]

How come with Forza the wow factor remained during the whole generation

I dont know, probably because its a newer series and it was still developing throughout 1-4. And IIRC 5 was disappointing, right? I dont own an xbox or forza anyway.. I dont understand why some people constantly bring forza into GT conversation, is quite annoying. Lots of us dont give a rat's ass about forza or xbox.

Also for me, another reason to not pay much attention to review scores is that reviewers can be sometimes clueless, biased, or paid to give a good review (I know this for a fact)

I general people should try the game and think for themselves rather than paying so much attention to the reviews.

I still remember the CRAZY GOOD reviews that the game JOURNEY had (short downloadable game for PS3) - what a huge huge dissapointment.

 

[SimTourist]

I dont know, probably because its a newer series and it was still developing throughout 1-4. And IIRC 5 was disappointing, right? I dont own an xbox or forza anyway.. I dont understand why some people constantly bring forza into GT conversation, is quite annoying. Lots of us dont give a rat's ass about forza or xbox.

Also for me, another reason to not pay much attention to review scores is that reviewers can be sometimes clueless, biased, or paid to give a good review (I know this for a fact)

I general people should try the game and think for themselves rather than paying so much attention to the reviews.

I still remember the CRAZY GOOD reviews that the game JOURNEY had (short downloadable game for PS3) - what a huge huge dissapointment.

Forza Motorsport is the only other racer that is comparable in scale in regards to car and track list to GT, so comparisons mostly make sense, as well as that there of course biased gamers on both PS and Xbox who automatically assume the competing series is **** without ever playing it.

 

[sparkytooth]

Why not also add all the cars from the PS1 games? It's the next logical step to take.

Hell yes, DB6 and the rest of the old JGTC racecars, also Espace, The 90's Mustangs, GT2 had an amazing list with gems we've never seen again in the series.

 

[glassjaw]

Forza Motorsport is the only other racer that is comparable in scale in regards to car and track list to GT, so comparisons mostly make sense, as well as that there of course biased gamers on both PS and Xbox who automatically assume the competing series is **** without ever playing it.

Forza certainly had its share of missteps too. I owned a 360 along with FM2, 3, and 4 and honestly I've never played a series of games with less differences between them. People here joke that GT6 was really GT5.5, but GT6 has nothing on Forza 3 and 4.

Really though, this highlights a growing complaint about games nowadays, and especially sim racers like GT and Forza. As development phases become longer and longer, many studios are falling into the habit of reusing old content to cut costs and workload. Not an awful idea depending on how much a developer decides to carry over, but as a result sequels are becoming increasingly similar to their predecessors. That, right there, is what the "wow factor" is all about. And I don't know if I've seen it in a console racer since GT4.

 

[NixxxoN]

Forza Motorsport is the only other racer that is comparable in scale in regards to car and track list to GT, so comparisons mostly make sense, as well as that there of course biased gamers on both PS and Xbox who automatically assume the competing series is **** without ever playing it.

Yeah but we are in GT6 section of GTPlanet, not in Forzaplanet or so. Both games are different, and obviously both will have upsides and downsides, GT will be better than Forza in some things and the other way round... we the GT players don't need to be reminded constantly that forza has this thing or that thing that is better than in GT. Its annoying and tiresome.

 

[SimTourist]

Yeah but we are in GT6 section of GTPlanet, not in Forzaplanet or so. Both games are different, and obviously both will have upsides and downsides, GT will be better than Forza in some things and the other way round... we the GT players don't need to be reminded constantly that forza has this thing or that thing that is better than in GT. Its annoying and tiresome.

I'm sorry, didn't mean to upset you guys.

 

[NixxxoN]

Forza certainly had its share of missteps too. I owned a 360 along with FM2, 3, and 4 and honestly I've never played a series of games with less differences between them. People here joke that GT6 was really GT5.5, but GT6 has nothing on Forza 3 and 4.

Really though, this highlights a growing complaint about games nowadays, and especially sim racers like GT and Forza. As development phases become longer and longer, many studios are falling into the habit of reusing old content to cut costs and workload. Not an awful idea depending on how much a developer decides to carry over, but as a result sequels are becoming increasingly similar to their predecessors. That, right there, is what the "wow factor" is all about. And I don't know if I've seen it in a console racer since GT4.

People nowadays want everything, and immediately. They want longer, more fun games with perfect graphics, perfect technical department, 1080p, 60Hz, 3D, with constant free updates and of course with a low price.

I'm sorry, didn't mean to upset you guys.

no problem, that's what I think anyway... maybe some others love the comparisons.

 

[Griffith500]

I know the reason textures are generally poor on GT6, doesn't change the fact they're generally worse than Forza though which what the point being made.

Oh. I see the point being made was that the tracks were more "detailed". I guess some people pay more attention to textures than others.

 

[vasiliflame]

What's Forza got to do with a thread about standard cars in gt7 seriously da****

 

[TokoTurismo]

What's Forza got to do with a thread about standard cars in gt7 seriously da****

Because talking about standard cars got tiring and GT7 will pretty much get bashed for adding them back?

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Because talking about standard cars got tiring and GT7 will pretty much get bashed for adding them back?

GET. BACK. ON. TOPIC. *loads gun* NOW.



Okay so this is where I stand.

Yes- I will buy gt7 with or without standards
No- I do not agree with the inclusion of standards, I do not eat rotten old bananas, I throw them away
Yes- I will probably be a teensy bit pissed if they are included
PLEASE- don't force standards on us PD

 

[TokoTurismo]

@GranTurismo guy LOL! 👍

7000th post!

 

[GranTurismo guy]

@GranTurismo guy LOL! 👍

7000th post!

Now back on topic before I have to shoot myself!