Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[Tornado]

well that car's burnt to a crisp so you can't really remodel it...

So was the Isuzu 4200R, though. Now, you have a point in that we are eventually going to lose some Standard cars simply because they don't exist anymore, but no longer existing isn't necessarily the death knell for something returning as a Premium.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Neither do numbers.



But you don't have to invest in a new console.

If you're a racing fan, you're going to buy either an X1 or a PS4 for either Forza or GT eventually, depending on your tastes. And if you're enough of a racing fan to do that, you'll almost certainly pick up pCARS as well, because why wouldn't you? It's not like Forza and GT where they're mutually exclusive (to the point of having to buy two consoles anyway). Whichever console you have, or PC, you can play pCARS.

Wrong, before the first full-stop.

 

[Tornado]

Which one is the uglier Olsen twin?

Wrong, before the first full-stop.

I'm confused which one you're referring to.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I could care less one way or the other. I race/time trial in bumper cam and only take pictures for my garage, so I hardly ever see the car I'm driving anyway. Hell, they could all be standards and it wouldn't bother me one bit.

 

[NixxxoN]

Did you not read the part where I said I'm completely ok with that level of detail for PS4 standard cars...?

Yes, I'd say too much expectations for standard. semi-premiums like the RUF's will be the new standards I bet.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I Think standards should be improved, not removed, if all of the standards were removed we would lose a ton of awesome cars, like the Supra, CRX SiR, The Nismo cars, SRT4, Cuda 6 Pack ECT.

Yes i agree, the standards are a bit depressing, but i don't see why so many people need to flip out over some pixels.

Graphics do not make the game.

In this day and age, where games are borderline life-like, I don't understand why people continue to act like graphics aren't an important part of the experience.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes, I'd say too much expectations for standard. semi-premiums like the RUF's will be the new standards I bet.

Pure speculation. PD/Kaz have never indicated that they would do that treatment to all or even most of the standards. It must be time consuming because they did so few for GT6 and haven't updated a single car in 7 months with that method. Even calling it a "semi-premium" is an exaggeration, although it's probably relevant for GT6, but this is a GT7 discussion. It's nowhere close to photomode quality of the current cars in GT6, which will be the premium for next gen in the GT series.

 

[Imari]

Wrong, before the first full-stop.

So you're telling me that I'm wrong for saying that numbers don't make the game? Do you extend the same sentiment to the guy saying that graphics don't make the game?

Both are to some extent opinions, for some people graphics or numbers may certainly make the game. But neither of them are sure-fire methods for making a great game, a game can have great graphics and be awful, just as a game with huge numbers of cars and tracks can be awful.

Neither graphics nor numbers make the game. Good gameplay makes the game, and everything else is secondary to that.


Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why you think numbers DO make the game.

 

[Tornado]

Pure speculation. PD/Kaz have never indicated that they would do that treatment to all or even most of the standards. It must be time consuming because they did so few for GT6 and haven't updated a single car in 7 months with that method.

Interestingly, regarding the process, they originally said that the worst quality Standards would be upgraded. While they certainly did fix up quite a bit more of them than I expected (things like modeling the door gaps and lights or getting rid of texture dots), I do find it odd that they zeroed in on the Rufs as the ones to go all out on when they were among the best looking Standards.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I do find it odd that they zeroed in on the Rufs as the ones to go all out on when they were among the best looking Standards.

Least amount of work? Kaz wants Porsche, but can't have?

 

[Imari]

Least amount of work? Kaz wants Porsche, but can't have?

I'd have thought that the RUFs would have been among the first ones that they'd make premium if so. They're certainly popular enough in the community, and if Kaz were to be enthusiastic about them as well...

 

[Grand Prix]

Least amount of work? Kaz wants Porsche, but can't have?

I'd have thought that the RUFs would have been among the first ones that they'd make premium if so. They're certainly popular enough in the community, and if Kaz were to be enthusiastic about them as well...

I wouldn't be surprised if they were the most photographed standard cars in GT5. More than a few people liked the challenge of driving the CTR Yellowbird and BTR as well.

 

[Tornado]

I'd have thought that the RUFs would have been among the first ones that they'd make premium if so. They're certainly popular enough in the community, and if Kaz were to be enthusiastic about them as well...

I do have to wonder how difficult it is to get 25 year old extremely limited edition tuned Porsches to model, though.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I still don't get why PD didn't bother with the newer Rufs though. I mean, I would love to see the CTR3 Clubsport for instance in a GT title. The only time I drove a CTR3 was in "Driver: San Francisco".

 

[Quakebass]

well that car's burnt to a crisp so you can't really remodel it...

They can still smoothen edges and re-do the textures without the actual car.

But also... How do the modders on PC sims make their cars...? Really, I don't think PD needs a full-scale model to make it look not terrible.

Yes, I'd say too much expectations for standard. semi-premiums like the RUF's will be the new standards I bet.

They aren't exactly expectations... It's more what I think they should be in GT7. I'd expect however that there will still likely be many cars that look like something out of the PS2 era. Again, I'll be fine if they can make all cars look reasonably good (as in RUF levels). Some close angles of the RUFs actually look better than non-tessellated premiums, that's why I even bothered to list one of the GT5 premiums. If PD can properly tessellate and re-texture every car going into GT7, I think it'll look fine.

Do I think they'll actually do that? I wouldn't bet on it, considering how little was changed on the GT6 standards. That's what's irritating me, that and the fact that they're more than likely going to port all of the useless duplicate cars as well just for marketing numbers.

 

[sparkytooth]

I'm pretty sure the Furai doesn't need much more than CAD data, if it has any.

 

[brianwong]

with their $1000 graphics cards), and consoles are supposed to prefer good gamemplay at a reasonable price even if they have less graphics.

1. It takes a $200 graphics card to outperform the PS4
2. A non-immersive experience is not good gameplay

 

[glassjaw]

Grid:Autosport, pCARS, Forza Motorsport, Forza Horizon and Driveclub create it's atmosphere with the way the developers made the game as equally as possible. It may (arguably) never look as spectacular as a premium track and premium car on GT6 but you have to ask yourself...is it worth the collateral damage?

Just look at a game on the other end of the spectrum, Mario Kart 8, hailed by many critics as the 'best looking game' on next-gen consoles right now. Not because it's mind blowing, it lacks AA, but because the art style is pulled off within the confines of a 60FPS, 1080p environment and it just looks...engrossing.

PD seem to have their priorities totally mixed up. It just seems half-arsed.

There is certainly something to be said about cohesiveness in game design and really any art form in general. I don't care whether you're making a racing sim or the next Ico, it's jarring when all elements of a game don't look as if they belong in the same world.

 

[Imari]

I do have to wonder how difficult it is to get 25 year old extremely limited edition tuned Porsches to model, though.

True. But they had the information to model the PS2 era cars. Presumably they didn't throw that all away, because that would be retarded.

Assuming that they still have all the photographical and sound data that they originally captured for the car, plus whatever is available online, plus whatever is available from RUF themselves, even if they couldn't get their hands on a real one you'd have to think that they'd have enough information to have a pretty good shot at building a good premium model.

Maybe it wouldn't be perfectly accurate, but it's a 25 year old extremely limited edition car. There's only a handful of people qualified to identify any inaccuracies. And as @RandomCarGuy17 says, there's also plenty of new RUFs that would be more than welcome.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I wonder is PD still has pictures and sound data of the Rufs they modeled from GT2. If they did, maybe it's possible to create 1 or 2 premium models from those. Then again, maybe that isn't a good idea sound wise as that's when they were using different recording methods around 1998/1999. Ugh, I'm just stuck in a dream world where I might one day see my Ruf 993 Turbo R.

 

[jimipitbull]

In this day and age, where games are borderline life-like, I don't understand why people continue to act like graphics aren't an important part of the experience.

It's no act. The success of games such as Little Big Planet prove that immersion and gameplay do not rely on photo realistic graphics or consistency of assets.

 

[ShiftingGears]

It's no act. The success of games such as Little Big Planet prove that immersion and gameplay do not rely on photo realistic graphics or consistency of assets.

Gran Turismo markets itself as a simulator, clearly realism is a priority by Definition. Not the same as stylized 1990's arcade pastiche games.

 

[jimipitbull]

Gran Turismo markets itself as a simulator, clearly realism is a priority bydefinition. Not the case for games like pokemon, crash bandicoot, lemmings or pacman.

While that may be true, how often do you use a 100x zoom lens in real life to compare textures of different cars?
Fact is that there are varying standards in real life, so it's quite acceptable in a simulation or game.

 

[Earth]

You dont know how standards will be in GT7. Anyway, personally couldnt care less about damage model. It would be a waste of resources to please crash kids.
And for me 400 cars i definitely not enough.

A waste of resources to model crash damage for crash kids? Im sorry, but when I run into a wall at 200mph and bounce off it like a cheap piece of tupperware it kind of takes me out of the experience. At that point all the life like graphics are for not.

400 cars may not be enough for you, but its enough for most everyone else. GT3 had 170 cars and its still the highest rated and highest selling Gran Turismo game of all time by a large margin. Besides, by the time GT7 rolls around that number should be closer to 500. If PD cant build a solid game around 500 cars they need to give up.

Kaz says standards are returning because he doesnt want to get rid of someone's favorite car. I dont think thats entirely honest. The real reason I think for the possible return of standards is to pad the car list again for the silly 1,000+ cars slogan, as well as using the standards to hide holes in the poorly chosen premium car list.

 

[Max911]

I couldn't care less if standard cars remain for GT7. I just like the driving physics and the sheer amount of cars you can drive. I'm very happy with GT6, I like to take advantage of all the features like the weather effects, night racing, and the dirt/snow courses not to mention the F1 cars and photomode. The karts are a blast, I don't know why no one brings them up, and the amount of tracks available is just monstrous. Playing online is alot of fun, too. I don't know why people hate on such an awesome game. The standards aren't as bad as people say they are. Hell, if it adds a good 800 cars on top of the 300 premiums, then be my guest. My favourite car in the game is actually the Yellowbird but man I love the XJ220 and the Lotus Carleton. The black interior view is doesn't bother me.

I still have alot of fun in GT6, so PD can take as much time as they need for GT7.

 

[Tornado]

Graphics do not make the game.

It's no act. The success of games such as Little Big Planet prove that immersion and gameplay do not rely on photo realistic graphics or consistency of assets.

What fools. If only Media Molecule had spent the 3 years of massive hype train for the fifth entry of the LBP series by focusing almost entirely on how amazing and detailed the better-than-PS3 assets they could put together were with press release after press release of nothing but screenshots of the game in a cherry picked environment, they too would be able to just near silently port half of the artwork and models from LBP2 to the PS4 and add some new stuff on of of that with such cheers with nothing but a 40 second video to showcase them.

They could have even really gone out and chased after graphical quality to the dramatic detriment of actual game performance to really seal the deal; or been the developer chosen to put together tech demos to show what the new system was capable of to sway early adopters for two console generations in a row, but alas. They simply aren't the visionaries that PD are when it comes to "immersion".

 

[Max911]

What fools. If only Media Molecule had spent the 3 years of massive hype for the fifth entry of the LBP series by focusing almost entirely on how amazing and detailed the better-than-PS3 assets they could put together were with press release after press release of nothing but screenshots of the game in a cherry picked environment, they too would be able to just near silently port half of the artwork and models from LBP2 to the PS4 and add some new stuff on of of that with such cheers. They could have even really gone out and chased after graphical quality to the dramatic detriment of actual game performance to really seal the deal, but alas.

Think about it this way.

The PS3 can't handle a grid of 30 premium cars, but the PS4 probably can. Improving the graphics is one thing, but having twice the rendering power can give us twice the amount of activity on the same screen and it's just better in my opinion. Although games like Mortal Kombat X coming out really shows off the next gen consoles' graphical capability.

 

[Imari]

I don't know why people hate on such an awesome game.

Played many other racing games? It's great that you're enjoying yourself, but I wouldn't broaden your horizons too much if you want to keep enjoying GT6.

The PS3 can't handle a grid of 30 premium cars, but the PS4 probably can. Improving the graphics is one thing, but having twice the rendering power can give us twice the amount of activity on the same screen and it's just better in my opinion. Although games like Mortal Kombat X coming out really shows off the next gen consoles' graphical capability.

I'd rather they just hit a solid 60fps, fixed all the flickering shadows and put some actual detail into the circuit surroundings with that extra power. 16 cars is enough for the first game on PS4. More cars on track doesn't solve any of the problems with GT6, and it arguably makes the chase-the-rabbit AI situation worse.

 

[Max911]

Played many other racing games? It's great that you're enjoying yourself, but I wouldn't broaden your horizons too much if you want to keep enjoying GT6.



I'd rather they just hit a solid 60fps, fixed all the flickering shadows and put some actual detail into the circuit surroundings with that extra power. 16 cars is enough for the first game on PS4. More cars on track doesn't solve any of the problems with GT6, and it arguably makes the chase-the-rabbit AI situation worse.

I play GT Legends and GTR:Evo. Every game has their pros and cons, it's all about how you perceive them. I usually put myself in the developers' shoes and, honestly, managing a racing team aswell as a gaming company could be quite the handfull. Kaz is pursuing his dream and he does what he can to make everyone else happy at the same time. If I was in his shoes, damn right I'd be doing the same thing.

Besides, the I can barely notice the frame drop. In any case, that's the PS3 reaching its limits. It's having trouble handling GT6's awesomeness.

 

[Tornado]

The last shred of pure optimism left in me regarding the series following statements like the one this thread started in response to is about what PD can do with new hardware now that they hopefully got all of this blatant overreaching nonsense out of their system.





But it would help a lot more for the the "graphics aren't the important thing" rebuttal that keeps floating around to the Standard car issue if a good half of the PR material from the company (be it directly from Kaz in interviews or given out by Sony in regular press releases) wasn't essentially saying how awesome the game is going to look or saying how they kept "pushing limits as far they could go" (for the sequel to the game that already had performance problems so bad when they made it "better than reality" that he personally apologized for them when they came to light. Then repeated them for GT6 by trying to up the video quality again).