Legal Street Racing?

[Muzaffar]

Well after reading Duke's and nd 4 holden spd's post above, maybe there is some big risk when street racing. I mean, if you crashed and you somehow got injured/died, you have made more trouble than you can bargain for. Relative, friends and the ones who is involved must be really hurt when something like that happens. Still, thats not gonna stop me from getting license, getting a car (and modify it) and going out in the middle of the night and drive the car (whether it is for spirited driving or bragging rights) and know that I feel happy inside. So really, whats the difference between a DUI and street racing? Both does involved dangerous activities with a car and both are illegal, so which one is worse?

Also, is it really a bad idea to go driving at night? How safe is the circuits around your area? I feel the closest (and the most suitable) track would be Sepang, but that would be like 1/2 an hour drive from my place and would definitely cost a lot. There is a go cart circuit near my place, but is that even considered a safe place to even go and do track days?

Thats enough, either i'm mentally unstable to think properly or that I'm thinking like a 7 year old.....

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Driving normal at night is fine, that's what lights are for. DUI is probably worse for the less judgement ability but still both are bad. The Circuit in my area is fairly safe I'd say. At the moment if you crash there you're only running into open space, flat grass. No matter how you look at it motorsport is dangerous, they even warn you on spectator tickets, but at a track is far safer than on the road.

 

[Duke]

I mean, if you crashed and you somehow got injured/died, you have made more trouble than you can bargain for. Relative, friends and the ones who is involved must be really hurt when something like that happens.

And what about the innocent people you might kill when you drift wide around a corner and head-on into a car full of teenagers coming home from a double date? Or a woman heading home to her family from her late-shift cleaning job? Or any one of a thousand other people who are using the road for its real purpose - to get from one place to another?

Still, thats not gonna stop me from getting license, getting a car (and modify it) and going out in the middle of the night and drive the car (whether it is for spirited driving or bragging rights) and know that I feel happy inside.

It should.

So really, whats the difference between a DUI and street racing? Both does involved dangerous activities with a car and both are illegal, so which one is worse?

Is it worse to be stabbed to death with a knife or beaten to death with a club? Neither street racing nor DUI is "worse". They are both unacceptable on public roads.

Also, is it really a bad idea to go driving at night?

It's not a bad idea to go driving at night if you are driving safely. It's a bad idea to drive very fast on public roads at any time. At night, lack of visibility means it is even easier to get surprised by something.

How safe is the circuits around your area? I feel the closest (and the most suitable) track would be Sepang, but that would be like 1/2 an hour drive from my place and would definitely cost a lot. There is a go cart circuit near my place, but is that even considered a safe place to even go and do track days?

It depends on the cart circuit. There are several outdoor cart tracks on the East Coast of the US here that offer track days and autocrosses for full-sized cars. You are lucky to have a roadrace circuit within half an hour's drive - I am several hours away from either Virginia International Raceway and Pocono. I go to autocross/gymkhana events that are 45 minutes to an hour away.

Thats enough, either i'm mentally unstable to think properly or that I'm thinking like a 7 year old.....

No, you are young and not even a licensed driver yet. You're excited by the way that street racing is portrayed in manga, games, and movies. It's very seductive.

You haven't had to live through the reality of it yet: hearing that kids in your daughter's school (or your school, if you are that young) have been killed. Or hearing about a streetracing car going into the crowd at an illegal event and killing 8 spectators - on a road that you have actually driven yourself.

Those things make you understand that you just have to grow up about certain subjects.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

And what about the innocent people you might kill when you drift wide around a corner and head-on into a car full of teenagers coming home from a double date? Or a woman heading home to her family from her late-shift cleaning job? Or any one of a thousand other people who are using the road for its real purpose - to get from one place to another?

Yeah, the concern isn't about the street racer and his family, it's mainly about the innocent people they may kill or injure.

 

[nk4e]

This reminds me of a Street Racing Game...

 

[Joey D]

So there is nothing wrong with spirited driving but there is something wrong when another car is involved (i.e. a race)? Isn't it just as dangerous to be driving hard down a road as lining up next to someone at a light and punching it?

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Any way you cut it, the problem isn't going to go away. In very many ways it IS, as someone pointed out, very much like a drug.

The mindset of a driver willing to race illegaly on public roads is attuned to the very simple and very physical dopamine response. The thrill to a person like this is not just the speed, not just the locale, but the very illegality of the act itself. Fast? Mmmm. Surrounded by skyscrapers on either side? Even tastier. But ILLEGAL? Sweet sweet dopamine cocktail Batman!

Sanctioning streetracing on public city streets may appease some drivers for some time, but the problem won't dissapear. Harsher criminal penalties only mean more "bragging rights" for those who DO engage in it and get away with it.

That said, the criminal penalties SHOULD be more severe than they are now, and should most definitely involve confiscation of the offender's car.

 

[Joey D]

Making something more illegal isn't going to stop it, people will always do it. Think about it, in a lot of states there is the death penalty if you kill someone but people still do it. Crime is always going to happen no matter what you do.

 

[Keef]

Making something more illegal isn't going to stop it, people will always do it. Think about it, in a lot of states there is the death penalty if you kill someone but people still do it. Crime is always going to happen no matter what you do.

Yup. Unless you make it awesomely easy and legal to do the once-illegal activity, like the Polish town did with street racing. They gave people an easily accessible place where it's legal to race. So instead of some people I know going "Hmmm...I wonder where the best place to race is tonight. Let's drive around (and race everywhere instead of one place)," they're all going to head straight to this place to race. It'll probably be the default meet spot, and everyone will know about it, and there won't be any reason to go anywhere else because everything they want to do can be done there. For free. And, apparently, somewhat safely.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

The fact remains that a large segment of the streetracing population races on the streets rather than on sanctioned tracks - whether government-sanctioned street tracks OR closed circuits - because of the added thrill of illegality.

And while imposing stricter legal penalities may not discourage the behavior in first-instance situations, it'll sure make it harder to repeat when the offender's car is sold at Police Auction. Just because a law may not have the desired effect immediately doesn't mean that the law is useless, or that it shouldn't be enacted on moral grounds.

 

[Joey D]

I'm not saying you should street race but have you ever seen the cost at some of these tracks? If they want to make more people head to these tracks they need to address some of the cost issues with them. I know it takes money to keep the track running, but maybe a free day once a month or something would help?

 

[wfooshee]

. . . maybe there is some big risk when street racing.

An astonishing revelation, huh?

An organized track event carries risk, but it's managed risk. There is emergency assistance onsite. Curves have runoff areas, drivers are classed according to skill and car, and there are very strict rules of behavior, violation of which will get you sent home.

Street racing's risks are completely unmanagable, with random events around every turn, from traffic, pedestrians, road quality, and unskilled competitors. This is supposed to be something you enjoy???

Street racing is not just dangerous, it's incredibly stupid. I burned my competitive urges in the SCCA, doing autocrosses for years. At one point I would run 3 events a month, as my home was equidistant from 3 different SCCA region's auto-x sites.

Realistic budgeting, home purchase, etc. has curtailed my running from that level. Tires cost too much, gas costs too much, and the car parts wear out considerably faster with that punishment. Now I do well to get 2 events a year in, and since I've bought a motorcycle and rediscovered riding, I haven't even had the car out of town since June!

And speaking of motorcycles, you wanna talk about stupid? Those squids who think the street is their playground, and traffic is an obstacle to handle with the throttle and a few choice words and gestures. If you can afford a bike, a turbo kit, a stretched swingarm (geez!), then you can afford the right gear and some track time, and stop being a poser.

That's all street racing is. Pretending. Posing.

 

[Duke]

I'm not saying you should street race but have you ever seen the cost at some of these tracks? If they want to make more people head to these tracks they need to address some of the cost issues with them. I know it takes money to keep the track running, but maybe a free day once a month or something would help?

I can race all night Friday, all day Saturday, and all day Sunday at a legal, NHRA-sanctioned drag strip less than 30 minutes from here. With lights, a tree, and emergency crews standing by.

For $20 a day.

At the recent accident in Maryland where 8 spectators were killed, there were fully-built, trailered cars at the illegals from several states away.

You're telling me that someone can drive 8 hours towing a $20,000 blown, built, 100-octane Camaro with Mickey Thompson slicks and a cage... but they can't pony up $40 for a weekend pass to the strip?

Right. They can ****ing afford it. They just think they're badass outlaws if they do it illegally. Makes me want to invest in a 100-lb barrel of drywall screws...

Like I said, there are some subjects about which you just need to man up and be an adult.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I can race all night Friday, all day Saturday, and all day Sunday at a legal, NHRA-sanctioned drag strip less than 30 minutes from here. With lights, a tree, and emergency crews standing by.

For $20 a day.

At the recent accident in Maryland where 8 spectators were killed, there were fully-built, trailered cars at the illegals from several states away.

You're telling me that someone can drive 8 hours towing a $20,000 blown, built, 100-octane Camaro with Mickey Thompson slicks and a cage... but they can't pony up $40 for a weekend pass to the strip?

Right. They can ****ing afford it. They just think they're badass outlaws if they do it illegally. Makes me want to invest in a 100-lb barrel of drywall screws...

Like I said, there are some subjects about which you just need to man up and be an adult.

Oh drag strips are cheap yeah, it's like $10AUD or $20AUD for me to go to my local strip.

 

[Joey D]

It's only $20 to race near you? There is a track near here that charges people $10 per run if they want to use the strip. I guess it really depends on the area then. There is a road course here as well that charges all sorts of different prices depending on the organisation but they are always expensive. I know it has something to do with their insurance.

I'm not trying to justify them racing on the road, I just think more tracks could do their part in helping.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

It'd be great if they could, but road racing is, sadly, not as profitable a venture here in the U.S. as it once was - NASCAR has seen to that. Operating and maintaining a road course is very VERY expensive, and with most sponsors far more willing to subsidize oval-track ventures, there just isn't the profit margin for the tracks alone to open up for free days very often. Many tracks now are so strapped they're going to a "Motorsports Country Club" type arrangement - private membership with huge fees that guarantees a few free trackdays a month.

The government would have to share the costs of a program like the one you suggest - which means tax dollars. It's a tough situation any way you look at it, but you can't really blame the tracks. If they stop making a profit, they close, and nobody gets to use them.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Just close down NASCAR, make ALMS the main racing series of USA. (Am I going to get rocks thrown at me like Top Gear did for saying NASCAR sucks?)

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Not from US GTP members you won't, at least I'd hope not. However, drive through most any of the southeastern states wearing what I describe below and you may receive a reception not unlike Clarkson and Crew when they traveled through Alabama

One of the best motoring magazines in the US, Grassroots Motorsports, advertises T-shirts with the word "BORING" swapped into the NASCAR logo instead of "NASCAR". I know for a fact this site has a good few GRM readers on it, and I'd venture to say there are a lot more that we don't know about.

Screw turing left for 500 miles, says I!

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

You'd think that the ALMS would be enough to keep race tracks alive and prices down.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

I'd think so too, but ALMS' market share is TINY compared to NASCAR. I mean MINISCULE. It's sad! It's hard to find ALMS on TV if you don't get the upper tier channels, which offers SPEED Network.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Oh hey son, wanna spend all day watching cars run in circles for hours on end?

Not really- I'd rather watch cars doing something...............

And this is why street racing is a problem. Except in Australia where we just have domb-🤬 hoons.

 

[Gil]

It's only $20 to race near you? There is a track near here that charges people $10 per run if they want to use the strip. I guess it really depends on the area then. There is a road course here as well that charges all sorts of different prices depending on the organisation but they are always expensive. I know it has something to do with their insurance.

I'm not trying to justify them racing on the road, I just think more tracks could do their part in helping.

Yeah, but at $10 a run, you can make that up in side-bets..
While I was quite foolish in my youth, and have been in more than one impromtu race in the streets of my little part of my former home.
We did run out where there was little to no other activity.

I suppose that if the police are there, and the car clubs are lending their support to street racing in a relatively un-inhabited place, I might be ok with it.
But there are still great risks to both drivers and spectators at street races.
At least, on most tracks, there are many people whose job it is to keep drivers safe, and to transport them to comprehensive medical care immediately.

Gotta say that medical care for emergencies, or to stabilize victims en route to the trauma center, verses cops closing down the streets in some seedy, uninhabited section of town where people can race...I know which one I'd pick.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I think the problem with the closing down streets idea is that a big part of the reason why street racers do it is because it's illegal and its gives them a bit of a "rush"



And Muzaffar Musa, you FAIL. You can't compare someone like Smoky Nagata to the teenage idiots racing around in their riced Civics. Japan is a totally different situation, and they generally don't fly around in the middle of the cities. Not to mention people just drive better there in general, and the cars are in way better condition because of stricter laws. I can keep going, but in general it's just not even close to the same.

 

[Leonidae]

Just close down NASCAR, make ALMS the main racing series of USA. (Am I going to get rocks thrown at me like Top Gear did for saying NASCAR sucks?)

AMEN!

 

[Gashlycrumb]

It's a nice idea in theory, but I can't see it working. As has already been said the majority of street racers do it for the notoriety and "thrill" that comes from doing it illegally.

In my experience the types of people who go to track days, night drags and other legal events tend to be genuine car enthusiasts. They tend to look after their cars and modify them with performance and handling in mind.

Street racers on the other hand tend to be more at the "ricer" end of the spectrum and are more concerned with modifying their cars for looks. This crowd tends to drive more poorly maintained or illegally modified (chopped springs etc) cars that in a lot of cases are unsafe at any speed.

Most track days here cost between $30-$140 a day depending on the track and the type of event. I would hardly call these costs prohibitive when you compare it to the possible fines or losing your car to street racing.

 

[Muzaffar]

And what about the innocent people you might kill when you drift wide around a corner and head-on into a car full of teenagers coming home from a double date? Or a woman heading home to her family from her late-shift cleaning job? Or any one of a thousand other people who are using the road for its real purpose - to get from one place to another?

Well....... yeah. I totally agree with that and I know the consequences. Its not something to be proud of anyways..... especially if your the one at fault.

It depends on the cart circuit. There are several outdoor cart tracks on the East Coast of the US here that offer track days and autocrosses for full-sized cars. You are lucky to have a roadrace circuit within half an hour's drive - I am several hours away from either Virginia International Raceway and Pocono. I go to autocross/gymkhana events that are 45 minutes to an hour away.

Lucky? If you can get $20 a day for a track day, your the one whos lucky. Going to Sepang ain't cheap at all. I could easily spend $50+ a day just for a track day.....

No, you are young and not even a licensed driver yet. You're excited by the way that street racing is portrayed in manga, games, and movies. It's very seductive.

You haven't had to live through the reality of it yet: hearing that kids in your daughter's school (or your school, if you are that young) have been killed. Or hearing about a streetracing car going into the crowd at an illegal event and killing 8 spectators - on a road that you have actually driven yourself.

Those things make you understand that you just have to grow up about certain subjects.

Yes, maybe video games and movies did affect me at some point, but I really was interested in car since I was young. I can't help think of those things!!! But if its too much trouble race on the streets, then maybe I should be a race driver instead. Which leads me to this:
Why is it so hard to become a race driver?
My parents, friends (hell, everyone) says to me that I can't be a race driver. Its so totally unfair for me to be like this. They don't even give me a chance! If there was a bigger opportunities to become a race driver, surely the number of street races would decrease right? I know I could easily be race driver if I'm good, but I'll probably become one of them if my dreams can't be achieved (to be racing in D1....)

And Muzaffar Musa, you FAIL. You can't compare someone like Smoky Nagata to the teenage idiots racing around in their riced Civics. Japan is a totally different situation, and they generally don't fly around in the middle of the cities. Not to mention people just drive better there in general, and the cars are in way better condition because of stricter laws. I can keep going, but in general it's just not even close to the same.

So your saying that what Smoky Nagata did is legal and that the teenage idiots racing around in their riced Civics are not? So whats so good about Japan that you say is better than the U.S.? I mean, you said their drivers are better, than their cars are in a better condition and that their driving laws are more stricter..... But still, you see teenagers in Japan still touge racing at night against one another (just like street racing) so does that make them any better than the other street racers?

 

[Azuremen]

$50 a day? Thats cheap. If I want to get 4 runs (about a minute each) autocrossing, it costs me $25, and over $100 for a day at the circuit. Then you have tires and gas. Be grateful for your situation.

Racing is nearly impossible to get into. It requires a lot of money, skill, and luck. Most professionals start in carts at a very young age (4 or 5) and constantly drive. A wise man I knew once said, "to get a little money from racing, you need to put a lot into it."

What Smoky Nagata did is no more legal than what the ricers do. The difference PB was pointing out is Smoky is actually skilled with a properly modified car. I've done some stupid stuff, and I can tell you all it takes is one person to screw up. Some random traffic changes lanes on the freeway suddenly; the guy in front of you over does it in a corner and spins out right in front of you; a tire blows out; someone is a large truck tries to intentionally run you off the road. Or a million other things. It doesn't take a lot for you to be featured on the late night news with the word "tragic" involved.

Being infamous in an area doesn't bring you anything but trouble. My MR2 was known for its engine swap and appearance; all I got out of it was headaches from Civics, a nervous twitch when I would park at the mall, and some less than friendly dealings at the legal drag strip with some poseurs.

Let me tell you this Musa, its nothing but trouble.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Sim Racings where its at....

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

It's a nice idea in theory, but I can't see it working. As has already been said the majority of street racers do it for the notoriety and "thrill" that comes from doing it illegally.

In my experience the types of people who go to track days, night drags and other legal events tend to be genuine car enthusiasts. They tend to look after their cars and modify them with performance and handling in mind.

Street racers on the other hand tend to be more at the "ricer" end of the spectrum and are more concerned with modifying their cars for looks. This crowd tends to drive more poorly maintained or illegally modified (chopped springs etc) cars that in a lot of cases are unsafe at any speed.

Most track days here cost between $30-$140 a day depending on the track and the type of event. I would hardly call these costs prohibitive when you compare it to the possible fines or losing your car to street racing.

Yep yep yep. Where I work I can see all the lappers/street racers on Thursdays and Fridays. Apart from them very rarely ever being V8 drivers (maybe 1 or 2) most of them are ricers, there cars rarely sound healthy, but there they are gunning their automobiles flat-out, arm hanging out the window and all their best mates along for the ride. I sincerely hope I never witness an accident there, too much blood, too disturbing.

Well....... yeah. I totally agree with that and I know the consequences. Its not something to be proud of anyways..... especially if your the one at fault.

Lucky? If you can get $20 a day for a track day, your the one whos lucky. Going to Sepang ain't cheap at all. I could easily spend $50+ a day just for a track day.....

Yes, maybe video games and movies did affect me at some point, but I really was interested in car since I was young. I can't help think of those things!!! But if its too much trouble race on the streets, then maybe I should be a race driver instead. Which leads me to this:
Why is it so hard to become a race driver?
My parents, friends (hell, everyone) says to me that I can't be a race driver. Its so totally unfair for me to be like this. They don't even give me a chance! If there was a bigger opportunities to become a race driver, surely the number of street races would decrease right? I know I could easily be race driver if I'm good, but I'll probably become one of them if my dreams can't be achieved (to be racing in D1....)



So your saying that what Smoky Nagata did is legal and that the teenage idiots racing around in their riced Civics are not? So whats so good about Japan that you say is better than the U.S.? I mean, you said their drivers are better, than their cars are in a better condition and that their driving laws are more stricter..... But still, you see teenagers in Japan still touge racing at night against one another (just like street racing) so does that make them any better than the other street racers?

The reason being a racing driver is so hard is you have to almost be rich, or at least very comfortable financially. To be a race driver you pretty much have to start as a go-karter, there's a few thousand dollars for the go-kart on top of competition fees for the season. After doing that a few years, you buy your own car to enter in a series- hope like hell you can find sponsors to subsidise most costs of racing and you may even need a second job to keep money coming in and to stay alive. The car itself depending on what series you enter may cost over $50k. Racing is not cheap, and unless you're really good in a really big series like V8 Supercar or DTM it's not a money making career. It's more of a super expensive hobby.

 

[McLaren]

Just close down NASCAR, make ALMS the main racing series of USA. (Am I going to get rocks thrown at me like Top Gear did for saying NASCAR sucks?)

Biggest mistake ever. NASCAR brings in boatloads of money.

Put it this way. NASCAR goes through at least 40 races a year. Now, look at how many seats each of their speedways hold:

• Daytona - 167,785
• Auto Club - 91,200
• Las Vegas - 142,000
• Atlanta - 125,000
• Bristol - 165,000
• Martinsville - 65,000
• Texas - 212,585
• Phoenix - 76,800
• Talladega - 175,000
• Richmond - 112,029
• Darlington - 65,000
• Lowe's - 167,000
• Dover - 135,000
• Pocono - 76,812
• Michigan - 137,243
• Infineon - 102,000
• New Hampshire - 92,400
• Chicagoland - 75,000
• Indianaoplis - 257,325
• Watkins Glen - 41,000
• Kansas - 82,000
• Homestead-Miami - 65,000

Now, if you reckon the fact that about a little over 3/4 of the seats (Not concessions or motorhome parking) in a single speedway cost $100 or more, you're talking probably $4,875,000 just from those seats if they all cost $100 in just a 65,000 seat speedway. But they don't all cost $100, many up $300 & $400.

Which means we're probably looking at a 65,000 stadium looking close to making $10 million each race. Now, try and do that math for a 200,000 seat speedway.

The money that comes in from NASCAR is far too great for it to just shut down and give way to a series like ALMS that only hits 12 circuits a year, and has a much cheaper starting fee for seating.