Lemons Season 4: Next Race on 29 November
- Thread starter Vol Jbolaz
- 898 comments
- 28,162 views
- 874
- Ottawa, Canada
- GTP_pyxen
LAAaaaaAaame. Just come race for the fun of it, man! We all know Wii's gonna win anyways.
For some strange reason I do think that this system is working a bit...the good drivers are able to be competitive with cars that are mid-level (Diabolic's car is ****, so his skill doesn't bring things up)
I think there's still something to be desired with the way stuff is working out..drivers should get cash for being in first in this format - their cars need to try and keep some kind of pace, but (and note that I haven't had cash in 2 races now, and only a grand the race before that..) for some weird reason I think it's kind of working... it does seem to balance out the force.
I would recommend dropping the cash allotment to the lower ranked cars though, because it may take more for them to come up, they just get way too much...10K should be the max, with cash going to the series leader(s?)
2.5K for 1 and 2
5k for 3-5
7.5k for 6-10
10K for 11-14
There's no way for someone who's in first to get a crazy car at 2.5k/wk...but 10K will get you a tranny and some power parts, and then 2 wks will still get you a high-rpm turbo, which should make your car more than competitive..that's 3 out of 7 weeks, which still gives you lots of time to make it up.
Dunno...it's a strange leaderboard points/cash mix, but it doesn't seem horrible to me (who will be drinking and driving next week, because I need to drop a few positions and make some coin).
Garris - I think you should throw dabney a bone here, and give him 15K (resulting in 18.5K total, or what I have - the next lowest winnings, in first) to get his car back in the series. It's really lame that he needs to sandbag and ruin his chances at winning anything at this point, just to make his machine competitive.
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- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
I have to agree with others. I think you should stick it out.
I say keep the discussions open. Though, I suspect the intention is to exclude me. Fair enough.
Wow, your maturity is impressive. You, sir, have won the internets. I was going to say, "offer something productive, or..." but I realized that you lack that capability. So I'll say this as politely as I can. Leave the thread or I'll report your posts.
Thank you for coming up with ideas and not solely complaining about Diabolic's Pay Structure. I was thinking of a couple of ideas myself. I've debated the idea of dropping the pay. I wonder if that would help tighten the field up.
I also wonder about making the pay based on the last x number of races instead of the entire season. So it would be based on a rolling average. It would still discourage sandbagging, but not penalize people like Dabney.
There are several different ideas we can kick around. I say we keep the discussion productive. I would like to point out that this system, while flawed, is still better than the previous system. We haven't had anyone sandbagging this series. And as I've said, last nights race was the tightest race I've been in in a long while.
It wasn't very tight for Dabney, but he is still doing very well for points!
We'll just have to see how the rest of the season shapes up.
- 874
- Ottawa, Canada
- GTP_pyxen
I realise that..but the fact is that everyone else's car is well ahead of yours in PPs, and I don't think that's right..There's no way you can win/podium in the series with your car, the way it is now.. it's just a matter of time before you (and I) drop down in the leaderboard.
Maybe..just maybe..there's a chance for the 6th and 7th races to have a good showing, but I dunno.
If you don't want the cash, just say so - I'll take it!
Maybe..just maybe..there's a chance for the 6th and 7th races to have a good showing, but I dunno.
If you don't want the cash, just say so - I'll take it!
- 918
- Leitchfield, KY
- BOWTIEKID
Like I said earlier, I'm going ahead and dropping out. My fellow IKEA Elite drivers you understand my reasoning, and I have thoroughly enjoyed racing so far this season with all of you. Can't wait till January when the Apocalyptic Lemon's come with some idea's I have.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I thought the rules were OK, provided everyone showed up and raced their hardest. However there was an obvious flaw in the points/credits system when it came to the results of race #1. And there is an obvious additional flaw in the points/credits when drivers miss races. I was willing to look past it after missing one race, but after missing two through no fault of my own, i have no chance of winning and I don't even know if I will have decent battles on the track.
I like passing and battling for position. This series in all its iterations thus far has succeeded in that up until about the 4th race. Occasionally there are a few late season battles but for the most part there is too much of a gap between vehicles.
Anyone else curious what a 60 minute lemons race would be like with boost on low? I bet it would be insane and intense. With cars racing in packs the entire time...until someone gets damage.
I like passing and battling for position. This series in all its iterations thus far has succeeded in that up until about the 4th race. Occasionally there are a few late season battles but for the most part there is too much of a gap between vehicles.
Anyone else curious what a 60 minute lemons race would be like with boost on low? I bet it would be insane and intense. With cars racing in packs the entire time...until someone gets damage.
- 591
- Easley, SC
- spooble
Weak boost, eh? If you're going for close racing, it will get you there. I used to run a good bit in a lobby that kept boost on low. It kind of takes pit strategy away, though. I think over an hour long race, a 2 pit-er would still be able to catch back up to a no pit-er if their cars are close. I'd be down for some testing.
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
My concern with boost is it is hard to practice with it. The car is going to be going faster than I'm used to. And I have no idea how much faster. Also, it is artificial and underminds certain valid strategies.
For example:
My car was crazy fast in a straight line. Probably the fastest car this week. But it had mountains of understeer. Does me no good to speed ahead of someone on the straight if by doing that they are going to get a speed boost. My hope of having enough of a lead that they can't pass me in the slow corners goes away, since they will catch up to me sooner and always pass me in the corners. And then we are back to giving me a boost on the straight that I don't need just so I can trade it back when I pass again.
On fresh tires, I was faster around the track that Wii this week. But, even if I raced clean, my car starts to slow more than his on worn tires. I didn't think I could get away with one pit, but I did. With boost, I'm not sure how that would work out. I wouldn't get any distance on him on fresh tires, and on worn tires I'd get a speed boost that I can't use because my tires can't handle it.
I could be wrong, but those are my fears with boost.
I'm curious about something like a set series, with no car growth, on one set of tires, but we balance driver ability with PP handicaps.
For example:
My car was crazy fast in a straight line. Probably the fastest car this week. But it had mountains of understeer. Does me no good to speed ahead of someone on the straight if by doing that they are going to get a speed boost. My hope of having enough of a lead that they can't pass me in the slow corners goes away, since they will catch up to me sooner and always pass me in the corners. And then we are back to giving me a boost on the straight that I don't need just so I can trade it back when I pass again.
On fresh tires, I was faster around the track that Wii this week. But, even if I raced clean, my car starts to slow more than his on worn tires. I didn't think I could get away with one pit, but I did. With boost, I'm not sure how that would work out. I wouldn't get any distance on him on fresh tires, and on worn tires I'd get a speed boost that I can't use because my tires can't handle it.
I could be wrong, but those are my fears with boost.
I'm curious about something like a set series, with no car growth, on one set of tires, but we balance driver ability with PP handicaps.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
It is true that certain corners cannot be taken with the utmost precision. You have to learn these ahead of time. For example, 130R at Suzuka can be taken flat out in some cars but when boost is added, you will have to lift the throttle before entry. However, weak boost is still strong enough that you don't have to hit the corner perfectly to catch back up. And if you're not trying to pass someone you don't want to run the turn flat out anyway. Learning to brake and pay attention to your speed is part of racing. Tires and track conditions change in real life...boost adds in that same variability that you need to learn to deal with.
It may undermine some strategies...but it will create new ones. For example, if you know you have to pit to win the race, typically you want to pit at the half-way point +/- one lap. With boost on, you could risk pitting early and allowing your boost of speed to increase the gap between other cars that are close to you on the track. By the time your opponent makes their pit stop you could be seconds ahead. They might close that gap after some number of laps but then again, they might make a mistake racing to catch up. Pitting late might work too allowing you to run the final laps with fresher tires.
The only fear I have with boost is bad drivers. Everyone will race side by side at some point and boost can be used to attempt passes in places that would never happen with it off. Short straights on tight courses are places to close a gap with boost off, but drivers sometimes try to turn those into passing opportunities with boost on. You have to watch your rearview more carefully with boost on. Getting to the front is easy...but staying there is another story. It could be an hour of non stop passing.
It may undermine some strategies...but it will create new ones. For example, if you know you have to pit to win the race, typically you want to pit at the half-way point +/- one lap. With boost on, you could risk pitting early and allowing your boost of speed to increase the gap between other cars that are close to you on the track. By the time your opponent makes their pit stop you could be seconds ahead. They might close that gap after some number of laps but then again, they might make a mistake racing to catch up. Pitting late might work too allowing you to run the final laps with fresher tires.
The only fear I have with boost is bad drivers. Everyone will race side by side at some point and boost can be used to attempt passes in places that would never happen with it off. Short straights on tight courses are places to close a gap with boost off, but drivers sometimes try to turn those into passing opportunities with boost on. You have to watch your rearview more carefully with boost on. Getting to the front is easy...but staying there is another story. It could be an hour of non stop passing.
- 72
- SoCal
- GeezerG123
Hey.......can I have my car back soon?
Anyone have good idea what's a good lap time for these silly cars at LCC?
Anyone have good idea what's a good lap time for these silly cars at LCC?
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- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
Just a random thought... we are losing Huyler and Bowtie. Now, we do still have Wii, and I don't want to say that everyone else is rubbish, but I have actually been able to keep up with Dabney and Leadbedr a couple of times during 450 nights.
Maybe we should scrap this and finish the rest of the season Crappy Touring Car Driver Style!
I really am interested in how things will go, but with five vacancies out of 14 drivers, the results may be a bit skewed.
Maybe we should scrap this and finish the rest of the season Crappy Touring Car Driver Style!
I really am interested in how things will go, but with five vacancies out of 14 drivers, the results may be a bit skewed.
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
I'm starting to dislike this thread. The fussin' and fightin' needs to stop. I think we should go ahead and finish the season so we can move on. If you don't think that you can have fun driving in whatever car you've chosen, maybe you shouldn't be doing this in the first place.
Like I said, I want to finish this season in this car. Maybe the winnings should be recalculated to account for fewer drivers, but I'm ready to keep going as-is, and I'm sure I still have the slowest car.
Like I said, I want to finish this season in this car. Maybe the winnings should be recalculated to account for fewer drivers, but I'm ready to keep going as-is, and I'm sure I still have the slowest car.
- 918
- Leitchfield, KY
- BOWTIEKID
Spoob, I'm not taking my ball home because I lost. I didn't show up Tuesday on purpose having planned dropping out already. Four people know my reason, and that's all that matters.
I didn't take my ball home, I gave it to charity to help another. It will make sense soon.
I didn't take my ball home, I gave it to charity to help another. It will make sense soon.
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
I've updated the spreadsheet.
There are three ties for points. And I've been using the same tie breaker from before, but I got to thinking, we should let the ties stand. If this system were done again, then weeks like we have right now should maybe see
0 Cr.
0 Cr.
1,000 Cr.
1,000 Cr.
1,000 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
For the first 8, or perhaps
0 Cr.
0 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
10,000 Cr.
10,000 Cr.
15,000 Cr.
Or average them:
500 Cr.
500 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
11,250 Cr.
11,250 Cr.
15,000 Cr.
I think I like the first system, cause it bases everything relative to the point leaders, if that makes any sense.
Sorry to double-post, but thank you for being mature and coming to me with your concerns. I do appreciate it.
There are three ties for points. And I've been using the same tie breaker from before, but I got to thinking, we should let the ties stand. If this system were done again, then weeks like we have right now should maybe see
0 Cr.
0 Cr.
1,000 Cr.
1,000 Cr.
1,000 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
For the first 8, or perhaps
0 Cr.
0 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
2,500 Cr.
10,000 Cr.
10,000 Cr.
15,000 Cr.
Or average them:
500 Cr.
500 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
5,000 Cr.
11,250 Cr.
11,250 Cr.
15,000 Cr.
I think I like the first system, cause it bases everything relative to the point leaders, if that makes any sense.
Sorry to double-post, but thank you for being mature and coming to me with your concerns. I do appreciate it.
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- 2,600
- Saint Louis
- diabolicwyvern
I'm not rubbish and not to make an excuse, but my car is awful. There is no sugar coating. I thought my worst choice was limiting weight before the first race. I was wrong. My worst choice was the car itself. I'm thinking we mount a trailer hitch on one of the Beetles and have it drag me around the track. I only weigh 970kg!
If we put your and my car together...we may be able to keep pace with the third worst car!
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
You are not rubbish. But you seem to enjoy picking truly crappy cars that I can occasionally keep up with. Not only this Tigra, which I was barely able to stay ahead of during the first race of this season, but I recall a 450 Countach that I could almost keep up with a little bit.
As to a trailer hitch... I don't know.... My tires wear pretty badly. I don't know if a Tigra counts as an optional sport pack.
- 2,600
- Saint Louis
- diabolicwyvern
I intended to run the Polo GTI right till three minutes before the season started. Then I saw Leadbedr and I thought one other person in the room in them so I changed last minute without testing. I had NO idea it was this bad or I'd never have gone near it. There is no excuse for my choice other than ignorance and stupidity. If we ever run this level again, I'm picking the polo and I wont go back on it.
Sport packs can be mounted to all cars.
Optional sport packs only seem to fit 20yr old Audi's
PS: The Lamborghini anniversary countach is too weighty at 450PP, but sometimes I just want to run a Lambo and the regular '74 is really too good on most tracks.
12/4/11 update:
Just noticed the final results from London. Garris, did you actually stay on track for the first heat? Its giving you last place there when I believe I was the last car on track. The trickle down effect is me gaining positions overall I shouldnt have....ie less money. just wonderin'
Sport packs can be mounted to all cars.
Optional sport packs only seem to fit 20yr old Audi's
PS: The Lamborghini anniversary countach is too weighty at 450PP, but sometimes I just want to run a Lambo and the regular '74 is really too good on most tracks.
12/4/11 update:
Just noticed the final results from London. Garris, did you actually stay on track for the first heat? Its giving you last place there when I believe I was the last car on track. The trickle down effect is me gaining positions overall I shouldnt have....ie less money. just wonderin'
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- 72
- SoCal
- GeezerG123
Lemons Country Circuit is kinda fun.....just a little narrow....oh my...I can only get a 1:20.xx.....another week in the middle to back of the pack......any really 'good' laps out there?
Geezer
Geezer
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
I think I should skip Decembers (and possibly Novembers). I haven't had a chance to practice at all. There sounds like a fun 450 event tonight, but I won't be able to make that either.
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