Lemons to Le Mans Season 3 Tuesday Series: Final Race, Tuesday 11 October 2011

[Vol Jbolaz]

By the way, what does the red line thru the cars in the spreadsheat mean? Disqualification?

They weren't shared previously. So those must be shared, please.

 

[Cujo 940]

What the heck was that about?......lol.
10th.....thanks.

It wil be epic @ LaMans......look at those standings.....wow. The series formula doesn't look broken to me.

Thanks team IKEA. No sandbags next week.

By the way, what does the red line thru the cars in the spreadsheat mean? Disqualification?

Patience my young grasshopper. I hold the key to your success

 

[diabolicwyvern]

I've updated the spreadsheet. Cujo has eeked into third, so it is Moe, Larry, and Curly on the podium.

There was some epic comedy. On the upper right of my screen, I saw Geezer is Offline. I make a comment, "Uh-ho, Geezer's been dropped."

To which, Geezer responds, "I have?"

And then he was promptly dropped from the race.

Please, share your cars.

Pretty sure I'm still diabolicwyvern. Just checked. If you're going to change my name at all, how about Winner. Yea that has a ring to it. For
example:

You: How was the race last night Winner?

Me: Oh, it was decent. I goofed around for 29 laps while the rest of the folks were apparently racing. Had to nearly wreck 10 times so I wouldnt get too far ahead of the folks I needed ahead of me.

You: Oh Winner, you so silly. Hey what place are you in?

Me: First, that why I'm called Winner

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

you: How was the race last night, winner?

ftfy.

 

[BTK]

Congratulations to Diabolic for winning this season, he must finish higher than 9th next week to clinch the title. I highly doubt that I can win, AND have him crash multiple times.

Also, I'd like to congratulate myself on second, I saved my best mods for last, so my 450pp car should place well. Mwahahaha.

EDIT:

158mph into first chicane, without cheating.

 

[pyxen]

Congrats...hope you can keep up with the 6th place car.

171mph into the first chicane...

 

[GeezerG123]

Cujo strategy 2.0 get geezer into 1st or 2nd if I can't myself. Geezer I've got an idea. :-)

I am listening.

 

[Cujo 940]

Congratulations to Diabolic for winning this season, he must finish higher than 9th next week to clinch the title. I highly doubt that I can win, AND have him crash multiple times.

Also, I'd like to congratulate myself on second, I saved my best mods for last, so my 450pp car should place well. Mwahahaha.

EDIT:

158mph into first chicane, without cheating.

Oooooo, So young so confident Daniel-son.

 

[BTK]

My names not daniel.

 

[chuyler1]

Cujo's name isn't Mr. Miyagi, what's your point?


Side note, everyone see the latest GT5 news story? Next update will contain updates that are actually useful (unlike lame-@ss race suits).

Things should be interesting next season when we get to the all-weather tracks...

FFWD/RWD is also rumored to be part of the DLC too!!!!

 

[BTK]

I'm very happy with this new update, PLEASE have Seattle Circuit, I need my jumps, and the standard car interiors sound sweet.

 

[chuyler1]

Nah, standard car interiors look like a black mask over bumper camp. I'll stick with bumper cam because it gives me the full rearview mirror.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

FFWD/RWD is also rumored to be part of the DLC too!!!!

Not sure I follow what you mean there.

That is exactly what I wanted in my rant last week. I love it. I also like that little tire/wet/road percentage icon in the upper-left. I'm curious as to what that will be showing.

 

[dabneyd]

Fast-forward and rewind in replays.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Fast-forward and rewind in replays.

Awesome!!!!

I was reading it as Front/Rear Wheel Drive. I thought the extra F was a mistake.

 

[dabneyd]

Did anyone notice that the release date is Tuesday the 11th? That's going to make things interesting.

 

[Cujo 940]

Hopefully it screws up peoples net less people for me to pass. :-)

 

[GeezerG123]

How many laps next tues.?

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

How many laps next tues.?

Not sure. Depends on lap times.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Several points of business:

There is another penalty outstanding, and I'm working out how to deal with it. For next season, I'm definitely going to formalize the penalty rules.

Check the spreadsheet. If your car is in green, I've inspected it. If your car is in yellow, then please share it. If your car is in red, then it wasn't shared before last race. So share it. There is a budget problem with Pyxen's car and we are working through that right now.

My car is shared for fairness. Don't scratch it, please.

I'm hoping to comb though the rest of the thread and add the rest of the ideas to the list. Feel free to add more ideas or add pros and cons for the existing ideas. Also, feel free to suggest a good poll site. I'm kind of surprised that Google doesn't have one. I basically want to do a poll on these ideas. Though, I think I am going to dictate some of them (particularly those that are designed to curb parking and sandbagging).

Clearly, I like Google. I've had a calendar going, and I've added another event. I'll host four shorter races on Tuesday the 18th (provided PSN and GT5 are online). These shorter races will be to test out four possible PP levels for next season. Right now, I'm thinking 325, 345, 365, and 390. You don't have to bring the car that you'd actually use next season. But part of what I'm looking at is, what sort of variety will we generate, and how close will the cars be at that starting PP level.

This event is open to everyone, not just current Lemons Tuesday members. It will, however, be in my lounge, so if you have not, yet, sent me an invite, do so.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Sounds great. I think starting lower will break a lot of unused potential out of garages. 👍

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I know, double posting, but I don't want to edit the previous post and have someone miss it, because this is kind of lengthy:

I proposed the idea that 10th through 16th should be different points, so people who are in 16th don't just park. Huyler mentioned that assigning different points may penalize people who finish poorly early in the season as drivers drop out. I think that is a fair point.

It got me to thinking, what if we went back and re-allocated points after drivers have left, just to see what it does for this season.

The Current Standings for This Season:

1. diabolicwyvern - 80
2. BTK - 66
3. Cujo 940 - 62
4. GeezerG123 - 62
5. dabneyd - 60
6. o8_jedi - 56
7. pyxen - 53
8. Vol Jbolaz - 41
9. leadbedr - 37
10. Dikarika - 35
11. vitin01 - 29
12. JOE2011 - 28

Adjusted Standings for This Season:

1. diabolicwyvern - 84
2. BTK - 68
3. Cujo 940 - 67
4. GeezerG123 -65
5. dabneyd - 63
6. o8_jedi - 60
7. pyxen - 59
8. Vol Jbolaz - 47
9. leadbedr - 40
10. Dikarika - 38
11. JOE2011 - 34
12. vitin01 - 30

No idea what to take from that, just wanted to see what it would look like, and I thought I'd share.

p.s. I should go back and change the 10th through 16th places to see what they look like, just out of curiosity.

 

[dabneyd]

Check the spreadsheet. If your car is in green, I've inspected it. If your car is in yellow, then please share it.

Mine is shared, or am I missing something?

 

[chuyler1]

Garris, I've done that experiment before and it doesn't really make much difference. However the bigger issue is rewards. Drivers do better when they place low and get more money to spend. If you remove the drop-outs you won't get an accurate picture of everyone's performance.

It appears to be that we end up with about 10-12 drivers by the end of the season so a scoring system that uses only 10 is the safest way to keep things fair as people come and go.

The PP starting point is really only to force people to try something different. We've seen some unique cars on the track, many of which had potential if they were driven properly. Whatever we pick, there will be good cars and bad cars.

I still think the only way to keep the racing closer is to eliminate turbo upgrades after the season has started. The turbos basically promote sandbagging. You either don't spend your money for several races to add one, or you sandbag one race to get it quicker. If we removed them, drivers would push harder for points instead of credits. However, it appears that many drivers simply can't race clean enough for 60 minutes to win a race even when they are given the turbo.

As for increasing the length of races...right now the strategy is close between no pit stop and 1 pit stop. The race is short enough to give FFs a fighting chance on the one pit strategy. We've seen drivers push for no pit stops and it has worked in some situations. Increasing to 75 minutes will remove pit strategy entirely as everyone will have to pit once.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Garris, I've done that experiment before and it doesn't really make much difference. However the bigger issue is rewards.

Ah, that is true. Still, though, there has to be a way to encourage people to keep racing. This season, the Autumn Ring and Suzuka races were like parking lots. Perhaps 10+ gets max cash, but each position gets different points?

The PP starting point is really only to force people to try something different. We've seen some unique cars on the track, many of which had potential if they were driven properly. Whatever we pick, there will be good cars and bad cars.

I agree completely. And it seems there are people that want to lower the PP. I'm fine with that. The problem I have is why. So far, I've just heard BTK saying he wants a challenge. I can appreciate that, but my concern is the entire field, not one driver. So I don't want to lower the PP if it is just going to exaggerate the differences.

It is entirely possible that we'll learn nothing useful with the testing evening, but I'm hoping there is some turn out and maybe there is a magic PP level where everyone starts closer, making the season more fun.

I still think the only way to keep the racing closer is to eliminate turbo upgrades after the season has started. The turbos basically promote sandbagging. You either don't spend your money for several races to add one, or you sandbag one race to get it quicker. If we removed them, drivers would push harder for points instead of credits. However, it appears that many drivers simply can't race clean enough for 60 minutes to win a race even when they are given the turbo.

I'd really hate to do this. There has to be other measures to discourage sandbagging (perhaps Diabolic's award structure). This week at Daytona was, "who could out-sandbag whom".

And me, with my turbo, with no wrecks of my own, and only two offs (it was the same corner on laps 1 and 3), fought for my fourth place finish. Mind you, we only had 10 cars, one of which got disconnected, one of which parked on lap two (though he was slower than me anyway), and one of which crashed himself out (so, I probably should've been 6th).

The problem I have is, without the turbos, we would've been as slow as "the go-karts". They are going to win the technical courses since they can take the corners faster and wear tires longer. And while I can appreciate the field being tightened up at Daytona, it means that larger cars have even less of a chance at winning the championship since the go-karts have a fair chance at winning the long-legged, speed courses.

I really do hate the sandbagging, but I feel that this measure targets the larger cars more so than the smaller ones. Since I'm still focusing on not wrecking, I will not even attempt a small, mid-engine, twitchy car. That means even if I have a stellar season (don't laugh), I don't have a chance in the championship. If the turbos are removed, then I'd want something to balance it out to make the mid-engine cars less desirable.

I have no idea what that could be.

As for increasing the length of races...right now the strategy is close between no pit stop and 1 pit stop. The race is short enough to give FFs a fighting chance on the one pit strategy. We've seen drivers push for no pit stops and it has worked in some situations. Increasing to 75 minutes will remove pit strategy entirely as everyone will have to pit once.

I agree. I think this season has been fairer to the FFs.

 

[chuyler1]

I've been thinking about Diabolic's idea...assigning rewards based on current standings. I don't think it will work. The winning strategy will to be in 2nd or 3rd place prior to the final race...which should give you enough credits to place higher than your opponents in the final race and therefore take the championship.

If you look at previous seasons, the drivers at the top almost always win with significantly fewer credits. This approach will be no different, except that it changes when you sandbag from early in the season to mid/late in the season. Eventually, you need to get those credits to improve your car.

In short, I don't think the reward system needs to change...I think drivers just need to improve and build up consistency. Stay on the track (even if it means driving a little slower), avoid damage, and you'll do better.

 

[pyxen]

Garris, what about a minimum weight? Many real series have them, so why not Lemons? If we restriucted it to 1000kg, they'd be light cars, but the 'gokarts' would prollyt have to add ballast.. It would even out tire wear a bit more, too.

My civic is at 960kg or so now...adding 40 wouldn't really do anything to it.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Garris, what about a minimum weight? Many real series have them, so why not Lemons? If we restriucted it to 1000kg, they'd be light cars, but the 'gokarts' would prollyt have to add ballast.. It would even out tire wear a bit more, too.

My civic is at 960kg or so now...adding 40 wouldn't really do anything to it.

Ooo. That is interesting. No idea how much weight would balance things out, though.

 

[pyxen]

Itd change things significantly from a pit strategy perspective..would have to add before starting, and then adjust power parts to whatever we start the series at.

It just adds another element to even things out..

 

[Cujo 940]

Itd change things significantly from a pit strategy perspective..would have to add before starting, and then adjust power parts to whatever we start the series at.

It just adds another element to even things out..

Lengthening the face does not favor FF. Might mean two stops.instead of one!