London and England riots

[F1GTR]

Apparently, Mark Duggan did not shoot a policeman. He had a gun but did not fire it. Both bullets fired came from a police firearm.

This is being reported by CNN/NY Times.

Yep, he was shot twice - once in the chest and once in an arm. The one that hit his arm was found lodged in a Police radio.

 

[Ardius]

Apparently, Mark Duggan did not shoot a policeman. He had a gun but did not fire it. Both bullets fired came from a police firearm.

This is being reported by CNN/NY Times.

Yep, he was shot twice - once in the chest and once in an arm. The one that hit his arm was found lodged in a Police radio.

I think its fair to say this is almost irrelevant to the problem at hand. I'd almost compare it to Franz Ferdinand and WW1. It is a catalyst..but not a singular cause.

I don't think it's a case of nobody thinking it was possible, but more that they never thought it was probable. When the riot squad gets called in, they're usually dealing with a large mass of protestors who are all in one spot and the riot squad simply have to form a barricade - like the G8 Summits that always attract trouble. But in England, the police have to deal with a mob that is anything but static. The rioters in England are unorganised. They are constantly moving, and can disperse and reassemble at will. They're probably using social media to co-ordinate their movements (BlackBerry has been threatened against helping the police identify rioters by a group of hackers), and they are not motivated by a common goal (unlike Arab Spring or the Cronulla race riots). The police have been caught off-guard because there has never really been a riot like this before.

I disagree, the real problem here is that the rioters are hitting several places at once and with relatively little to no warning and are stretching Police resources.
Not to mention we are not talking about defending or managing riots or protests in one location, but pretty much anywhere where there is shops (in a city centre). This is obviously quite a large amount of area for the Police to monitor and protect.

And I think I'm right in saying "possible" - who thought it possible that the (minority) youth of today would universally decide that it would be great to go start stealing and destroying property in large gangs? I think everyone felt the police could handle it with ease and assumed no one would dare. I didn't think it was possible this could happen.
To say it wasn't "probable" suggests people thought it might (not) happen or it was possible. I don't think anyone thought this a week or two ago.

I'm personally worried that this could trickle down to smaller, local shops with smaller gangs but still quite a bit of violence because surely everyone is thinking right now that the Police are pretty busy in the major cities. I fear the smaller towns and villages are going to be relatively defenceless.

 

[PeterJB]

Hopefully this won't last for four years though...

 

[Ardius]

Hopefully this won't last for four years though...

Well no the riots won't last for four years, but the effects on society must surely be very serious?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Apparently, Mark Duggan did not shoot a policeman. He had a gun but did not fire it. Both bullets fired came from a police firearm.

That does not necessarily mean the police were wrong to shoot. If Duggan had a gun and was pointing it at someone, then the police could justifably shoot him. They couldn't afford to wait until Duggan fired before firing back - if he posed a clear and present threat to someone, then the police had to protect whoever was in danger at the time.

 

[Keef]

Apparently, Mark Duggan did not shoot a policeman. He had a gun but did not fire it. Both bullets fired came from a police firearm.

This is being reported by CNN/NY Times.

That'll calm those riots right down.

 

[stig's helmet]

Rioters were seen shooting at officers in Aston, Birmingham. About 10 minutes later asian youth and locals started to defend the area by challenging the looters and rioters. Reports also of Lozells Birmingham having similar trouble.

From Birmingham riots updates.

 

[PeterJB]

Only a matter of time before they got their hands on firearms I guess.

 

[stig's helmet]

It's honestly disgraceful, giving teens like myself and others a bad name.

 

[Ardius]

That'll calm those riots right down.

For the last time! Its not the reason people are rioting and looting! It was only ever a catalyst for this starting, but the cause behind all this is not that!

Almost all of those out there now rioting and looting do not care about police shootings or what the government are doing. They are simply out to get free stuff and to wreck things for fun.

 

[Keef]

For the last time! Its not the reason people are rioting and looting! It was only ever a catalyst for this starting, but the cause behind all this is not that!

Almost all of those out there now rioting and looting do not care about police shootings or what the government are doing. They are simply out to get free stuff and to wreck things for fun.

Rioters riot because they want to. But the more bad news they hear, the harder they go. Doesn't really matter where the news comes from, as long as it can be construed as the little guy getting screwed over. A man being killed who never even shot his gun can definitely be construed as such.

 

[Ardius]

Rioters riot because they want to. But the more bad news they hear, the harder they go. Doesn't really matter where the news comes from, as long as it can be construed as the little guy getting screwed over. A man being killed who never even shot his gun can definitely be construed as such.

These are not your typical protestors though.

You really think stealing from shops is about the shooting of a man? It has nothing to do with it. While some are giving interviews claiming/blaming it on society/the government/the police/whatever - they are just making excuses to justify their actions. This is all opportunistic greed.

These people will continue to loot regardless of this news. It doesn't matter to them - all they needed was the spark to organise themselves and give their own twisted justification for doing it. Now they think they can get away with it, it doesn't matter anymore about justifying it.

A lot of these people are simply diving in to make trouble because they have nothing better to do.

 

[Dotini]

Hopefully this won't last for four years though...

You have extensive civil unrest, so far on the flimsiest of pretexts - the shooting of a hoodlum or the taking of free stuff for fun. That's BS.

It took many years to engineer your very peculiar social conditions. Add in the unexpected consequences of technology, and you have an unprecedented problem which so far defies analysis, let alone any speedy resolution.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[stig's helmet]

Rioters were seen shooting at officers in Aston, Birmingham. About 10 minutes later asian youth and locals started to defend the area by challenging the looters and rioters. Reports also of Lozells Birmingham having similar trouble.

From Birmingham riots updates.

After saying this Birmingham coach station has been shut down and there are unconfirmed reports; repeat unconfirmed reports of an asian male being ran over on Dudley road, other injuries in the brawl have been reported too. as for the male ran over and killed, I doubt it very much folks don't take this as gospel however the area was in trouble and people seem to be injured. Explosion in the area being heard now too...blimey!

If the ran over bit is untrue which I suspect it might be, that is sick and shouldn't be made up!

Right ok west midlands police have confirmed 3 men have been run over during the brawl on Dudley road, and on that note guys wherever you are stay safe!

 

[Keef]

A lot of these people are simply diving in to make trouble because they have nothing better to do.

Don't you think I know what a riot is? I already said rioters riot because they want to. You're not telling me anything I don't already know. My point that bad news makes rioters worse no matter where it comes from went right over your head.

 

[Akira AC]

After following the situation after two days, here is what comes into my mind:

The riots widespread and extent over the last 72 hours, there has been attacks in the mayor commercial districts in different areas through the UK, and there have been fires and all kinds of vandalism over the areas in which the riots take place.

The police response took place over the normal protocols, but the riots seem too widespread into for the police to handle, now, what comes to my mind(and I know this will subjected into many political/social and other topics) is why the army hasn't been mobilized?

As far as I understand, the riots began under a peaceful protest, which created disturbances that created the riots, but the police response was kind too small due to the quick growing of the riots, what I think is that the army(or UK version of national guard) should have been mobilized 48 hours after first riot, since then the protest was no longer a protest that can be politically blameable, I don't understand really well how police response is or acts under situations like this(in a smaller considerable scale)and why the army or any other mayor law enforcement take control of this situation(and I know that Army=/= law enforcement, just so you guys get the idea).

The Americans deployed the National guard after the riots on LA, which can be consider of similar(not equal) scale, and while there was many subjections under under that, I consider that such actions provides damage control, something that UK seem to need at this moment.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14466369
Authorities in the US city of Philadelphia have ordered a curfew for minors in an effort to halt a series of violent flash mobs.

 

[Keef]

The police response took place over the normal protocols, but the riots seem too widespread into for the police to handle, now, what comes to my mind(and I know this will subjected into many political/social and other topics) is why the army hasn't been mobilized?

Because when the government takes the offensive they set themselves up for a live stage performance of V for Vendetta. It's better so simply block the rioters' paths instead of forcing them back into their homes.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

You noticed that, eh?

It is nice that our firearms officers are trained not to fire and know that when they do they will save a life or some lives with the potential consequence of losing their job - it means they aren't trigger happy and the gun is an absolute last resort. It is dim that we have almost no active police officers with any experience of firing their gun in a pressure situation or taking a life.

Thats the problem with US cops, they're jittery and have a shoot first think later attitude, but It's a good riot attitude. Burn down a block, get shot in the but.

So, your solution is to shoot people. Would that be correct?

When it comes down to saving lives and keeping order, shoot at will.
You cant have people running around destroying whole blocks.
Thats not right.
They want to act like they run the city, give them something to run for.

 

[pk_090]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14466369
Authorities in the US city of Philadelphia have ordered a curfew for minors in an effort to halt a series of violent flash mobs.

U.S police officers can enforce this. A kid is going to have the brown stuff scared out of them when somebody points a gun at them, but over here at the moment the rioters are better armed than the police.

 

[stig's helmet]

2 of those men have reportedly died since the collisions. Absolute disgrace!

http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/

Reports also that Aston area has injuries after their scrap to defend the area.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

I have heard they have been shooting? At cops?
Wow I think I'm moving to the UK now, Cops over the pond are lenient!

 

[Sam48]

I've never studied British laws, but I've always wondered what the difference's are between ares and theirs.

For example, in the US, if an officer feels threatened in any way, they may point their gun (but nothing more). In a life threatening situation, they may shoot.

Now I'm assuming that's not the case in Britain. Is it harder for officers to defend themselves there?

 

[a6m5]

Because when the government takes the offensive they set themselves up for a live stage performance of V for Vendetta. It's better so simply block the rioters' paths instead of forcing them back into their homes.

You might have a different opinion if the rioters are looting, or burning down your business, and the police is literally just watching on from block away?

I think I posted this earlier, but if this was going on where I live, and the jackasses are stealing inventory from my work, burning the building down, I expect the Governor to call in the National Guard. I'm not a fan of the cops, hate the State Government, also the politicians. But in case of riot, I'd be siding with the police. I'd be communicating and organizing protection from the rioters. Not join on in, score a free 3D TV and a new 7.1 surround.

If this protest(<-humoring) could possibly lead to a situation like in "V for Vendetta", I'm seriously missing something here. I've seen members like Famine express frustration with the British Government, but I'm pretty sure they don't hate their government enough to burn some cities down. Bottom line, impression that I've been getting is that this is criminals acting criminal. If they weren't criminals before, they are criminals now.

 

[niky]

At this point... is it now war? When you have organized, armed troublemakers, that's the point where you call in the military, isn't it? By this point, the peaceful protesters have gone home. Anyone still rioting is in it merely to riot. Use of force is completely justified.

Thoughts go out to those of you stuck there... Good luck and keep safe.

 

[Villain]

That'll calm those riots right down.

Right, just like stomping out the fireworks that started the forest fire will make the trees stop burning.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Right, just like stomping out the fireworks that started the forest fire will make the trees stop burning.

I think Keef was being sarcastic.

 

[WeShallNverStop]

I've always wondered why the police, army, etc never use LRADs on big riots like this.



I would of thought the police would have this in a dense populated city, it's a great weapon for disabling people from a distance.

 

[Omnis]

I would think LRAD has too much collateral damage. If you live on the street people are rioting on and they blast LRAD, it could possibly damage your hearing.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

If there's rioters on your block, chances are your house is burning.