London and England riots

  • Thread starter Alex.
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^After watching that, I redact my previous statement :scared:
Those weren't rioters, those were vigilantes, possibly Millwall FC supporters who had go together.
Forgive me if I sound disrespectful, but the amount of people there looks to be tiny. How can't the police deal with that?
It's not just the number, it's the fluidity that they move and the opportunistic targets. Every time the police turn up the rioters have already moved on elsewhere. Every time the police try to trap them they find a spare alley. Its cat and mouse but there's so much cheese the mouse is in a target rich environment.
 
No. People are, and people always have. Politicians, like police, are now so scared to make any major decisions because they're so afraid of upsetting groups from all around society that nothing ever really gets done.

It's the people who have been shaping decisions for good or bad for a long time now, and that to me absolves the government of responsibility in situations like this. They have responsibility to help bring it under control, but the cause of the riots wasn't of their doing.

It's absolutely no different from much of the root cause behind the credit crisis. The banks were borrowing more than they could afford, but so were the individuals.

There's one thing losing your job and finding yourself in financial problems, it's another thing living beyond your means, getting into massive debt and then complaining at the government that they should have done more to stop it being so easy to get into debt. There's an underlying stupidity to much of our society and a belief that the state should sort all of their problems out, rather than individuals shutting up, stopping being stupid and becoming accountable for their own actions.

You are right: Just like law can not protect against crime, it can only bring justice to victims and try to give motives not to commit crime.

But people vote for politicians and pressure them to put some policies in place or they do not vote for them again. It is these policies that form society. It might have been religion before, but that role in our part of the world has come down.

But still, I find it very Anglo Saxon to believe that everyone can take care of themselves. It is not clear to me in what social contexts you have worked. I worked with good people that could not write and never will be able to write. Believe me they can not read the small print on a payment scheme either, nor are they the best planners for the family finances.

Sorry to come back to this (other thread though), but there is a class that actually acts as "Uber mensch" and sets the norm. In putting individual responsibility as high as you do above, you are putting some people in a situation they can not handle.

Principle is clear though, we work in a society where the individual is responsible for their acts, there is no valid alternative (unless incarceration). But there is a responsibility of education, protection (against debts as much as against looting), help, entertainment, ... that governments need to put in place.
 
You are right: Just like law can not protect against crime, it can only bring justice to victims and try to give motives not to commit crime.
Not at all. We have laws that can have you arrested and prosecuted for planning a large number of serious offences. They were recently and controversially used to arrest known trouble makers before the student protesters earlier in the year. They are also commonly used to arrest people planning terrorist atrocities.
 
Its pretty crap what is going on. I am back in London on the 17th, hope it is all finished by then. Checked that google map link, and there have been 3 riots right where my place is in Islington/London, right where the yobs normally are seen. I probably even know some of the people that would have been envolved in any trouble caused where I live.

The annoying thing is, the vast majority of those people smashing up the place are either doing it for the sake of it, or so that they can take advantage and steal rather than actually knowing or caring about what ever the cause may be.

In every picture or video, all I see are Hoodies, little wanna be Gangsters, jeez what has happend to the UK that we have so many "yoof" with nothing better to than smash and steal!
 
Not at all. We have laws that can have you arrested and prosecuted for planning a large number of serious offences. They were recently and controversially used to arrest known trouble makers before the student protesters earlier in the year. They are also commonly used to arrest people planning terrorist atrocities.

It's a bit like that old medieval law where you can still shoot anyone from Wales if they try and cross the River Severn - as long as it's with a longbow. It's all about preventing crime you see. :sly:

Or is that an urban myth... :dopey:

EDIT: Christ! Just seen your location... :nervous: ;)
 
It's a bit like that old medieval law where you can still shoot anyone from Wales if they try and cross the River Severn - as long as it's with a longbow. It's all about preventing crime you see. :sly:

Or is that an urban myth... :dopey:

EDIT: Christ! Just seen your location... :nervous: ;)
:lol: Nah the laws are still in the law, but have been nullified by later law.
 
:lol: Nah the laws are still in the law, but have been nullified by later law.

So I can't still shoot you with a crossbow within the walls of Chester after sundown?

Dream shattered.
 
So I can't still shoot you with a crossbow within the walls of Chester after sundown?

Dream shattered.
There's still hope
bow-and-arrow-set-3.jpg
 
Libyans be trollin'

1055: BBC Monitoring Libyan foreign ministry spokesman Khalid Ka'im has called on world governments to take action over the unrest in the UK. David Cameron has lost legitimacy and "must go", Libya's official news agency Jana reports. Libya "demands that the international community not stand with arms folded in the face of this gross aggression against the rights of the British people, who are demanding its right to rule its country", the report said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675

I remember Iran saying something similar earlier this week.
 
Police blamed for that here too. Can't stretch police forces to thin or their safety is in great danger. Ever seen a riot when they isolate a policeman or 2?.....scary stuff.

Yeah, there's some awful footage from when the Glasgow Rangers fans rioted in Manchester city centre a couple of years back where a massive group of rioters chased down a small group of coppers, who quite rightly legged it. One of the coppers got tripped up as he tried to run and the Rangers fans just pounced on him and kicked the living 🤬 out of him. They would have kicked him to death if some brave / stupid kebab shop worker hadn't of jumped in and dragged him away.
 
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Normally yes, but they're being used to hide their identity.

Not even normally. The whole reason for the "hoodie culture" in the UK is because kids have been using them to hide their identities for years.

Your average cotton hoodie is pretty crap at keeping the weather off. There's no real reason to have the hood up than hiding your face from people.
 
Not even normally. The whole reason for the "hoodie culture" in the UK is because kids have been using them to hide their identities for years.

Your average cotton hoodie is pretty crap at keeping the weather off. There's no real reason to have the hood up than hiding your face from people.
:odd:

Hoodies are very practical in windy conditions and in the surprise rain shower. And especially stopping you from getting a cold head after the gym.
 
:odd:

Hoodies are very practical in windy conditions and in the surprise rain shower. And especially stopping you from getting a cold head after the gym.

The same windy conditions where, if you walk into the breeze/gust/hurricane, it comes down around your shoulders? :grumpy:
 
The same windy conditions where, if you walk into the breeze/gust/hurricane, it comes down around your shoulders? :grumpy:
No, because you pull it up far enough the front is just over your forehead.

Also keeps the wind out of your ears while not impeding you hearing on a bicycle. Gotta love boundary layer effect on air pockets.
 
Afternoon all, any further developments on the UK being 🤬 or have the kids stopped playing up now?
 
Afternoon all, any further developments on the UK being 🤬 or have the kids stopped playing up now?

Ah, you missed it. They dropped huge glass domes over the top of all the major city centres and pumped in rat poison. Worked a treat! 👍
 
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