Make all cars available from the start?

[GBalao888]

I agree with this, but for arcade mode only. We should also be given a chance to quick-tune them like in GT4, but in a much, more advanced way. Online and simulation, just stick with the method of having to buy the cars.

 

[Johnnypenso]

A bit of both. Give players a respectable selection of cars that they can use instantly in online mode, but if you want to modify them heavily, you'd have to buy them with credits in GT Life mode. However, I also think that online mode should offer credits, but this could encourage people to exploit the online system for money though, if not carefully thought out.

The price payouts for the different rankings should probably not be too far apart. Enough to make people want to win, but not so much that it creates an enormous amount of drama if someone plays dirty. If someone bumped you off the track and that made to lose half the price money, that would probably make you a lot more angry than if it just made your prize 5% lower.

By respectable selection, I mean at least a few competitive cars to use in events based on the rules of most major racing leagues. A few cars for every class, that is, and properly set up for the type of racing you'd typically do with those kind of cars.

Why not just make the entire catalogue available to anyone in any lobby online? The Recommended garage should include every car in the game. I see no downside to this at all. It allows everyone to go online immediately and race the cars they want when they want. It would probably encourage spec racing as well, since every host knows that every player has every car, as opposed to now where you can't easily limit to one car, and if you do, you never know who has it and who doesn't in an open lobby.

You won't fix dirty driving online by equalizing the prizes. The payouts are already so small there is little to be gained by winning anyway. The way to discourage dirty driving is by penalizing the behaviour. A driver rating system can help with this, perhaps an "incident replay report" automatically generated and available to the host could be possible on the PS4.

 

[CBH]

just stick with the method of having to buy the cars.

 

[MustangManiac]

Unless they come up with something to do other than collect cars in this series I think that would be a bad move on PD's part. Buy GT7, got all cars, finish game in a month...what do you do for the next 3 years? I know, play pcars and codies games

 

[Fat Tyre]

Part of the charm of the game has always been about collecting stuff. I think that is why although I knew that the A.I. and racing experience was terrible I didn't complain that much about the game. We collected cars by winning pointless races and in GT5 we also had the museum cards, race suits, helmets, etc. Now it is about collecting paint chips which I personally don't care about.

If cars were cheaper, would not have those silly 20mill cars, you would win most cars by winning races or special events and earning credits would be easier then yes I would be happy with having all cars locked from the start.

For online and arcade mode they could have all the cars unlocked from the start, also it would be nice to have a test drive feature in the dealerships I mean, Who buys a car without trying it out first?

 

[mister dog]

No, for a racer/ car collecting game like GT or FM (so not just a pure sang racing game), having all those hundreds of desirable cars available from the start would ruin the fun.

I even think second hand dealerships should be in there, be it the return of the UCD in GT or the auction house in FM, it's great fun looking for bargains with the money you raced together.

 

[TayeezSA]

@FS7 . Oh yes the players will get to drive their favourite cars, after they win some races, get their cash and buy them. There's the sense of accomplishment when you save up and buy something. Sure the race factors do improve skills but still, unlocking things seems to be good also, I mean there's a reason why we're earning credits. What's the point of playing and winning when everything is already there? Things must be earned, not just to appear and be like "Soooo what must happen now?". Why should it frustrating to unlock something? Just makes the game too easy.

@Johnnypenso the option man. While I support the idea of options, there's such a thing as having too many of them. In this context, I disagree with having the option to tick a different career mode. While everyone can't be pleased, the better way I rate is to just progress the old fashioned way. The open wheel system works for P.Cars, let's do things the GT way, a better GT way actually...

What I don't get is why is there this strong belief that for GT7, a game which is still being developed, the AI and the Career will be as stale as GT6's version? Let's not jump to conclusions here.

 

[FS7]

@FS7 . Oh yes the players will get to drive their favourite cars, after they win some races, get their cash and buy them. There's the sense of accomplishment when you save up and buy something. Sure the race factors do improve skills but still, unlocking things seems to be good also, I mean there's a reason why we're earning credits. What's the point of playing and winning when everything is already there? Things must be earned, not just to appear and be like "Soooo what must happen now?". Why should it frustrating to unlock something? Just makes the game too easy.

You're just thinking about yourself and how you like to play your games and not taking into account that other players have different preferences and may want to take a different approach on how to play the game. I'm talking about having options that will make the game fun to as many people as possible.

If you or some other players like to be forced to play the game in a specific way to have a sense of progression and like collecting stuff, that's fine with me as long as I can play the game my way. For somebody who has played previous GT games as well as other racing games being forced to grind credits again just to be able to drive some laps in time trial with my favorite car sounds like and boring a obsolete idea.

I mean, I can drive cars such as Peugeot 908 LMP, Nissan GT3, HSV Super GT, plus the 25 anniversary cars from the start without having to go through career mode, people seem to be fine with that, so I don't see why having all cars available in arcade mode from the start would be a bad thing. If I can drive the cars mentioned above from the start then there should be no problem in me having access to other LMPs, GT3s & Super GTs from the start in arcade mode. That would make the game more enjoyable for me and a lot of other people who simply care about racing, and people who prefer to "earn" their cars can simply ignore arcade mode cars and use only cars from their career garage.

 

[TayeezSA]

You're just thinking about yourself and how you like to play your games and not taking into account that other players have different preferences and may want to take a different approach on how to play the game. I'm talking about having options that will make the game fun to as many people as possible.

The poll right now?

 

[CaptainTNT]

The poll right now?

I am in the yes crowd, not the no crowd. And as for the career mode I lost interest in racing AI. Unless I need some money I do the X2014 championship on the occasion since it is the only decent prize money event. I still not have all those 20 million dollar cars like I did in GT5 since there is no larger money races than the X2014 races. I tried to repeat doing those races over & over and after that I had enough & got bored of doing it repetitively.

 

[TayeezSA]

I am in the yes crowd, not the no crowd. And as for the career mode I lost interest in racing AI. Unless I need some money I do the X2014 championship on the occasion since it is the only decent prize money event. I still not have all those 20 million dollar cars like I did in GT5 since there is no larger money races than the X2014 races. I tried to repeat doing those races over & over and after that I had enough & got bored of doing it repetitively.

This is about GT7 though, not GT6. We were "promised" that we'll get better AI and other better things in GT7, so let's wait then.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The poll right now?

The poll says 4/10 people would like this option. That's 4 million people if GT7 sells as well as GT1-5. That's huge.

 

[CaptainTNT]

This is about GT7 though, not GT6. We were "promised" that we'll get better AI and other better things in GT7, so let's wait then.

Yes & I am hoping for GT7 that there is the option for players to choose how to play their game or either the price of the 20 million dollar cars price will come down & be more affordable.

 

[TayeezSA]

The poll says 4/10 people would like this option. That's 4 million people if GT7 sells as well as GT1-5. That's huge.

On the flip side, the poll says 6/10 people wouldn't like the option. 6 million people, which is pretty huge.

 

[Johnnypenso]

On the flip side, the poll says 6/10 people wouldn't like the option. 6 million people, which is pretty huge.

So if the option is there for "all cars from the start", 10 million people are happy. If it's not, 6 million people are happy. See how that works?

Say I didn't like SRF and took the position that I wanted it gone, 60% of people agreed with me, so Kaz dropped it from the game. So for the 60% the game is the same because we didn't use it anyway, but the other 40% are no longer happy.

I understand why someone would make a personal choice not to use this option, I can't understand the position that you don't want others to have it.

 

[CBH]

Should never be and option to have all cars available at the start it is just silly. I can see it only happening in the arcade mode but nowhere else in the game.

 

[buickgnx88]

So if the option is there for "all cars from the start", 10 million people are happy. If it's not, 6 million people are happy. See how that works?

It doesn't quite work that way, at least the way the poll goes. Based on a yes/no situation, 4 million would be dissapointed one way and 6 million the other way. You can't add them up since it's not "no but I wouldn't mind if they were", but rather "no I don't want it changed at all".

I understand why someone would make a personal choice not to use this option, I can't understand the position that you don't want others to have it.

If arcade mode is completely open, as it should be, then everyone would be happy (your full 10 million). While I'm not of the mind that GT must be completely unique and can't be like any other game, I do enjoy the "rise from the bottom" aspect of the games, if done like the GT1-4 games.

Edit: I do prefer the "all cars available" aspect though of not having to be at a certain level or xp to be able to purchase a vehicle. They should be all unlocked in career mode and the purchase price should be the only thing preventing you from obtaining a vehicle

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Or maybe instead of having all of them available from the start, maybe unlock all of them for arcade mode if you achieve 25% or 50% in career mode or something along the lines of that

 

[Johnnypenso]

It doesn't quite work that way, at least the way the poll goes. Based on a yes/no situation, 4 million would be dissapointed one way and 6 million the other way. You can't add them up since it's not "no but I wouldn't mind if they were", but rather "no I don't want it changed at all".

If arcade mode is completely open, as it should be, then everyone would be happy (your full 10 million). While I'm not of the mind that GT must be completely unique and can't be like any other game, I do enjoy the "rise from the bottom" aspect of the games, if done like the GT1-4 games.

Edit: I do prefer the "all cars available" aspect though of not having to be at a certain level or xp to be able to purchase a vehicle. They should be all unlocked in career mode and the purchase price should be the only thing preventing you from obtaining a vehicle

Yes it does work that way, at least the way I would do it. I don't want to take the career mode away, so adding an option for "all cars from the start" makes everyone happy. You get your career, I get my sandbox. Without the option, it appears, extrapolating the poll numbers for the sake of argument, that 40% of the fanbase would rather get all the cars from the start than go through the career mode.

Or maybe instead of having all of them available from the start, maybe unlock all of them for arcade mode if you achieve 25% or 50% in career mode or something along the lines of that

Why? Why lock cars away, forcing you to do an offline career? How does that make the game better for those that don't want an offline career, who just want to drive, tune and enjoy all the cars and tracks in the game?

 

[Downhill Dino]

Too bad? It's a basic tactic to have players keep the game around longer and work for achievements and unlockables.

 

[Imari]

Too bad? It's a basic tactic to have players keep the game around longer and work for achievements and unlockables.

And it's a terrible tactic.

Why don't they put lockout timers and such as well, so you can only play a few races a day? That would extend the gameplay, and it seems to be a very popular tactic in F2P games.

Proper games don't do this because it's abusive. There's advantages to having a mode where owning a car means something, which is why that shouldn't be taken away. But the only reason to force that gameplay into all modes of the game is if you don't think your game would be fun enough without it. You're having people play to get to the next milestone instead of having them play because they're having fun.

Basically, you're worried that people will simply stop playing if they have access to all the cars.

Maybe they would. And maybe that's a sign that you need to make the racing in your game more fun.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Hmm, this is true. I wouldn't necessarily say terrible though, unless in the case of free to play games. Diabolical mechanics they have.

Proper games don't do this because it's abusive. There's advantages to having a mode where owning a car means something, which is why that shouldn't be taken away. But the only reason to force that gameplay into all modes of the game is if you don't think your game would be fun enough without it. You're having people play to get to the next milestone instead of having them play because they're having fun.

Isn't that a bit of an assumption that going through the process of achieving and unlocking to not be fun?

By the way, since you mention it, what do you consider to be a "proper game"? Not just for racing games, but across the genres.

 

[Imari]

Isn't that a bit of an assumption that going through the process of achieving and unlocking to not be fun?

It's a recognition of the fact that a significant proportion of people don't find it to be fun.

I did mention that the current career mode should definitely stay in some form as well, as I'm well aware that some people enjoy that style of play.

By the way, since you mention it, what do you consider to be a "proper game"? Not just for racing games, but across the genres.

A "proper" game is designed for entertainment, to develop a skill, or some other such thing. It is not designed to waste time.

A proper game has respect for the player's time. Some people have time in abundance, others do not. But either way, they've chosen to spend their time on that particular game over whatever else they could be doing. A proper game provides something for that time spent, be it an emotional experience, new skills gained, new ways of approaching puzzles, whatever.

I don't consider repeating one set of races for forty hours to get to a car that you're not even sure you'll enjoy driving to be respectful of the player's time.

I'm aware that there are people that enjoy that, just as there are people that enjoy being kicked in the testicles. But it's absolutely not something that appeals to everyone. Especially in a game whose main claim to fame is now it's extensive car list. When the car list is only 150, there's not much of a barrier to trying all those cars. When the car list is 1200+?


MMOs do this stuff to stretch out gameplay as well, which is still abusive, but it's a direct consequence of the monthly fee model. The longer they can keep people playing on the least amount of content, the more money they make. Ditto F2Ps, their gameplay is constrained by their monetisation tactics.

But with Gran Turismo, you've already paid your money up front. Bar microtransactions, Polyphony isn't seeing another cent whether the player plays for an hour or a thousand hours. What they do see more money from is satisfied customers coming back to buy the next iteration. So it's actually in their interest to avoid all the tricks that are used in other game types and do everything in their power to ensure that their players are having pure, unadulterated fun for every second that they have Gran Turismo in the machine.

It's not like a game with the amount of content that GT6 has needs to ration it out. There's 1200 cars. Drive each one for just five minutes (which is barely enough for a couple of laps sometimes) and that's one hundred hours of gameplay.

Polyphony will have the statistics to back this up, but I'd be really, really surprised if anything like a majority of Gran Turismo buyers actually put anything like that many hours into the game.

Gran Turismo doesn't need the gameplay to be padded out. There's far more than any person can reasonably accomplish already available, even if you're given the keys to every single car, track and event from the word go. What it needs is to make it compelling and enjoyable for people to go through and discover that content for itself, rather than giving them the carrot and stick routine.

 

[snowgt]

There's a relatively simple solution to this problem. Two different garages.

The "GT Life Garage" would be the garage we're having now, i.e. you need to buy everything that's in it. You can compete in GT Life events only with those cars and parts you bought with earned credits.

The "Online Garage", as I imagine it, could also be empty to begin with, but you could just add cars from the dealership and configure them without the needs for credits. Usage of these cars would be restricted to non GT Life events only.

You could make the cars from the GT Life garage available for Online also (could be like that by default, but why not add the choice), but cars from the Online Garage would not be available in GT Life events. With a simple button you could switch the garage between Online, GT Life and Combined Garage.

Best of both worlds.


ps: Yes, there will be some that want to play GT Life with every car from the get-go. I am aware they won't be satisfied with this either, but I think it would satisfy most people.

 

[Imari]

There's a relatively simple solution to this problem. Two different garages.

The "GT Life Garage" would be the garage we're having now, i.e. you need to buy everything that's in it. You can compete in GT Life events only with those cars and parts you bought with earned credits.

The "Online Garage", as I imagine it, could also be empty to begin with, but you could just add cars from the dealership and configure them without the needs for credits. Usage of these cars would be restricted to non GT Life events only.

You could make the cars from the GT Life garage available for Online also (could be like that by default, but why not add the choice), but cars from the Online Garage would not be available in GT Life events. With a simple button you could switch the garage between Online, GT Life and Combined Garage.

Best of both worlds.


ps: Yes, there will be some that want to play GT Life with every car from the get-go. I am aware they won't be satisfied with this either, but I think it would satisfy most people.

This is unfortunately the sort of solution people who would like access to every car have been pushing for. The naysayers think that all cars should not be available in any mode, because that devalues GT Life somehow or is against the spirit of Gran Turismo or some other non-gameplay based argument.

I'm all for keeping GT Life as is. The Pokemon aspect is part of how that mode plays, and is completely relevant. Personally, I think they could do with making the car buying aspect more relevant in GT Life, it's not really that important that you manage your cars and purchases after you've done a few races.

But there's no need to make that the entire game. The two can co-exist, as you've rightly pointed out. Unless GT Life is so boring that the only reason anyone plays it is because it's the most efficient way to earn credits, but there are better ways of dealing with that problem than crippling other game modes.

 

[Pseudopod]

How about this: In arcade mode and online mode, all cars in the game are available instantly, but you're "borrowing" them, so you can't change parts, but you can adjust the parts that are already included with the car as it would be if you buy it. Many high-end race cars come with a fully customizable transmission and suspension, so if you "borrow" this car in online or arcade mode, you will be able to change the settings of these parts.

Likewise, the cars might only come in one color when you borrow them for free, you won't be able to change rims, apply new paints, or do any custom livery (if that feature makes it into the game, lol). Ballast and power limiter will naturally be available on all of the cars, and if the car comes with aero parts that allow you to change the downforce, you will of course also be able to do this.

So there are still some limitations, but with (probably) a thousand cars that you can instantly use online, you're bound to find one that is suitable for a very large amount of races and challenges. If you want even more control over the car, get some money and buy it.

Keep in mind that I don't mean borrow in the sense that you would need to find another player to borrow them from. You're borrowing them from an imaginary entity within the game that just so happens to own every car in the game . Also, I don't think there should be any limit on how many times you should be able to borrow cars in this way.

However, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of letting players borrow cars from other players as well. These cars would of course have all the parts and stuff that the owner of the car have bought for it, giving the borrower the same amount of options as the person who owns it would have.

Personally, I think this would be a pretty decent compromise. Online enthusiasts can get loads of cars to race right away after installing the game, and even if you're not all that into online play, this solution also lets you test out cars before dumping 20 million credits into a car that might be a wildcard. At the same time, it retains the value of owning the car because that gives you the ultimate level of control over them.

 

[snowgt]

This is unfortunately the sort of solution people who would like access to every car have been pushing for. The naysayers think that all cars should not be available in any mode, because that devalues GT Life somehow or is against the spirit of Gran Turismo or some other non-gameplay based argument.

I'm all for keeping GT Life as is. The Pokemon aspect is part of how that mode plays, and is completely relevant. Personally, I think they could do with making the car buying aspect more relevant in GT Life, it's not really that important that you manage your cars and purchases after you've done a few races.

But there's no need to make that the entire game. The two can co-exist, as you've rightly pointed out. Unless GT Life is so boring that the only reason anyone plays it is because it's the most efficient way to earn credits, but there are better ways of dealing with that problem than crippling other game modes.

I think we're both on the same page. However, I don't think it's an "unfortunate" solution. There's one fraction that still thinks of Gran Turismo the way it was before the advent of online play (i.e. where GT Life was all there was). Ever since then however, there was no way for GT to stay the way it was without embracing online play, and that means that there are many people who focus on that part, and on that part exclusively. GT's introduction of online play was a painful birth, and some would agree that the baby still hasn't fully been delivered, because it doesn't support what people in the "online fraction" would expect of it. "Plan an online "Le Mans of the 60's" racing series? Come back when you've saved up 60 million credits!" - That's just not good enough for an online game.

I just think the separation of both modes would allow both groups of people to find their GT in the same installment of the game.

 

[Imari]

However, I don't think it's an "unfortunate" solution.

It's unfortunate in the sense that this or something like it has been proposed already, and that those who are against having all cars available are against these sorts of ideas as well. They do not consider this to be a solution.

It's unfortunate in that those who answer "yes" are asking for a design which would allow everyone to play the game in the way they most enjoy, but that those who answer "no" are asking for a design which removes all options apart from the one way that they want to play.

I just think the separation of both modes would allow both groups of people to find their GT in the same installment of the game.

And you're right.

You have a good idea, but a significant number of those answering "no" to the poll in this thread have expressed their dissatisfaction with any solution that makes all cars available, in any mode.

And yes, I'm aware of how silly that is. Then again, Polyphony has been pretty clear about avoiding options in their designs, so perhaps the players are simply taking their cues from that.

 

[FS7]

How about this: In arcade mode and online mode, all cars in the game are available instantly, but you're "borrowing" them, so you can't change parts, but you can adjust the parts that are already included with the car as it would be if you buy it. Many high-end race cars come with a fully customizable transmission and suspension, so if you "borrow" this car in online or arcade mode, you will be able to change the settings of these parts.

Likewise, the cars might only come in one color when you borrow them for free, you won't be able to change rims, apply new paints, or do any custom livery (if that feature makes it into the game, lol). Ballast and power limiter will naturally be available on all of the cars, and if the car comes with aero parts that allow you to change the downforce, you will of course also be able to do this.

So there are still some limitations, but with (probably) a thousand cars that you can instantly use online, you're bound to find one that is suitable for a very large amount of races and challenges. If you want even more control over the car, get some money and buy it.

Keep in mind that I don't mean borrow in the sense that you would need to find another player to borrow them from. You're borrowing them from an imaginary entity within the game that just so happens to own every car in the game . Also, I don't think there should be any limit on how many times you should be able to borrow cars in this way.

So, basically have every car available as a "courtesy" car in arcade & online modes? I like this idea.

 

[Pseudopod]

Yes, courtesy was the word they used in the game. I didn't remember at the time i wrote my post .