Makeshift Shuffle Club - Time Trials & Testing for club car lists - all welcomeOpen 

Cars being considered for a club spec 1-make list (tuning prohibited) (cars to have ready)

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
7 second spread! Well that seems a little unbalanced. It could be interesting but I like you don't know what to call that list. i still think we should do a compact sports car list. Sorry if it seems like I'm pushing it on you watermelon but I think a compact sports car list would be great fun.
 
daddyo845
7 second spread!
Click to expand...


:confused:

Deep Forest

1:38.116 -- Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) '89 = watermelonpunch
1:38.824 -- Nissan Fairlady 2000 (SR311) '68 = watermelonpunch
1:40.703 -- Volkswagen Golf I GTI '76 = watermelonpunch
1:41.058 -- Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR '74 = watermelonpunch
1:41.299 -- Mazda Cosmo Sport (L10A) '67 = watermelonpunch
1:41.496 -- Fairlady Z 280Z-L 2seater (S130) '78 = watermelonpunch
1:41.944 -- BMW 507 '57 = watermelonpunch
1:42.844 -- Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale '63 = watermelonpunch
1:42.897 -- Toyota Celica 1600GT (TA22) '70 = watermelonpunch
1:42:976 -- Honda 1300 Coupe 9 S '70 = watermelonpunch
1:44.362 -- Honda Civic 1500 3door CX '79 = watermelonpunch
1:44.547 -- Alfa Romeo Spider 1600 Duetto '66 = watermelonpunch
1:45.371 -- Marcos Mini Marcos GT '70 = watermelonpunch
1:46.289 -- Nissan Skyline 2000GT-B (S54A) '67 = watermelonpunch

8 second spread.
Slower cars too!
And the list is working out okay.

Deep Forest

1:47.455 -- Triumph Spitfire 1500 74 = watermelonpunch
1:47.802 -- Honda S800 '66 = watermelonpunch
1:47.985 -- Suzuki Cappuccino (EA11R) '91 = watermelonpunch
1:48.403 -- Nissan CUBE EX (FF/CVT) '02 = watermelonpunch
1:48:751 -- Toyota Yaris F (J) '99 = watermelonpunch
1:49.397 -- Daihatsu Copen Active Top '02 = watermelonpunch
1:50.665 -- Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08 = watermelonpunch
1:50.852 -- Nissan Be-1 '87 = watermelonpunch
1:50.870 -- Daihatsu MOVE SR-XX 4WD '97 = watermelonpunch
1:51.162 -- Mazda Autozam AZ-1 '92 = watermelonpunch
1:51.257 -- Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 = watermelonpunch
1:51.415 -- Nissan SKYLINE Sport Coupe (BLRA-3) '62 = watermelonpunch
1:52.312 -- Nissan PAO '89 = watermelonpunch
1:52.327 -- Ford Ka '01 = watermelonpunch
1:52.944 -- Suzuki WAGON R RR '98 = watermelonpunch
1:53.393 -- Volvo 240 GLT Estate '88 = watermelonpunch

6 second spread

1:46.980 -- Suzuki Cappuccino (EA11R) '91 = GTsail290
1:47.925 -- Honda S800 '66 = GTsail290
1:48.277 -- Nissan CUBE EX (FF/CVT) '02 = GTsail290
1:48.896 -- Triumph Spitfire 1500 74 = GTsail290
1:48.929 -- Daihatsu Copen Active Top '02 = GTsail290
1:48.998 -- Toyota Yaris F (J) '99 = GTsail290
1:49.802 -- Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 = GTsail290
1:50.037 -- Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08 = GTsail290
1:50.329 -- Mazda Autozam AZ-1 '92 = GTsail290
1:51.628 -- Nissan Be-1 '87 = GTsail290
1:51.844 -- Daihatsu MOVE SR-XX 4WD '97 = GTsail290
1:52.250 -- Ford Ka '01 = GTsail290
1:52.385 -- Nissan SKYLINE Sport Coupe (BLRA-3) '62 = GTsail290
1:52.993 -- Volvo 240 GLT Estate '88 = GTsail290
1:53.625 -- Nissan PAO '89 = GTsail290
1:53.917 -- Suzuki WAGON R RR '98 = GTsail290

7 second spread

Very slow cars... so every second means more.
 
Besides, if you ignore the RS200, the spread is less than four seconds. That thing is quite quick indeed -- I've tested about half of that big 'Mixed Class' list around Tsukuba, and so far it's nearly two seconds faster than anything else (except that weird Infinity FX45).
 
have you been recording your times :D
^^
?????


:D
:D

I just kind of scooped out a bit from the list.
Just to get an idea.
I was hoping maybe peeps would have some suggestions for fill ins.
 
Here's some suggestions for my "Traffic" list

1:37.370 -- VW New Beetle RSi '00
1:37.477 -- Mini COOPER S Countryman (R60) '11
1:37.480 -- Seat Ibiza Cupra '04
1:37.800 -- Alfa Romeo Brera Sky Window 3.2 JTS Q4 '06
1:38.553 -- Volvo C30 R-Design '09
1:38.824 -- Toyota CELICA SS-II (ST202) '97
1:38.829 -- Toyota Tacoma X-Runner '04
1:38.840 -- BMW 120i '04
1:39.028 -- Pontiac Vibe GT '03
1:39.499 -- Alfa Romeo MiTo 1.4 T Sport '09
1:39.582 -- Suzuki SWIFT Sport '05
1:39.614 -- Citroen C4 Coupe 2.0VTS '05
1:39.738 -- Abarth Grande Punto '09
1:39.997 -- Peugeot 307 XSi '04
1:40.186 -- Volkswagen Golf IV GTI '01
1:40.312 -- Chevrolet SSR '03
1:40.461 -- Infiniti G20 '90
1:40.607 -- Land Rover Range Stormer Concept '04
1:41.412 -- Chrysler PT Cruiser '00
1:41.540 -- Eagle Talon Esi '97
1:42.197 -- Toyota WiLL VS '01
1:42.269 -- Alfa Romeo 147 TI 2.0 TWIN SPARK '06
 
Last edited:
1:34.686 -- Lotus Elise '96
1:36.658 -- Renaultsport Clio Renault Sport 2.0 16V '02
1:37.149 -- Mazda RX-8 Type E '03
1:37.622 -- Mazda SAVANNA RX-7 INFINI III (FC) '90
1:38.445 -- Toyota 2000GT '67
1:38.573 -- Nissan SKYLINE HT 2000 Turbo RS (R30) '83
1:38.706 -- Mazda SAVANNA RX-7 GT-Limited (FC) '85
1:38.824 -- Toyota CELICA SS-II (ST202) '97
1:38.839 -- Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GTS '03
1:39.246 -- Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99
1:40.512 -- Toyota CELICA XX 2800GT '81
 
Tested a few from Luxury list.
(Online lobby/tyre wear fast/real grip/3 clean laps)

Laguna Seca

1:41:301 -- Jaguar XK Coupe Luxury '07 =
1:40:744 -- Chrysler 300C '05 =

103 -- Infiniti G35 Coupe '06 =
093 -- Audi S4 '03 =
080 -- Jaguar S-Type R '02 =
073 -- Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02 =

1:38:533 -- BMW 135i Coupe '07 =

068 -- Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08 =
052 -- Jaguar XFR '10 =
048 -- BMW Z8 '01 =
047 -- Maserati GranTurismo S '08 =
035 -- BMW M3 Coupe '07 =
030 -- Aston Martin Vanquish '04 =

1:36:490 -- Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06 =
1:35:331 -- Lexus IS F '07 =


This one I'm not sure in what list I saw
1:35:780 -- Jaguar XKR '10
 
Okay so obviously yes, peeps are definitely getting more out of the Lexus than the DB9 on average.

And I'm glad to see some people are also doing better with the 300C. Yes, it's a goofy car, but it has some pretty good acceleration compared to the XK Coupe Luxury.

I'd like someone to test the 2 mercs on another track if anybody can manage that.
Because I have some :odd: concerns about those.
 
watermelonpunch
have you been recording your times :D
Click to expand...

But of course! I wasn't planning on posting them until I had them all done, is all.

For the ones I've tested so far that are on your recent unnamed list:

1:06.586 -- Ford RS200 '84
1:08.493 -- Chrysler Prowler '02
1:08.909 -- Dome ZERO '78
1:09.100 -- BMW M Coupe '98
1:09.215 -- DMC DeLorean S2 '04
1:10.582 -- Lancia Stratos '73
1:10.630 -- Alpine A110 1600S '73
1:11.060 -- Audi quattro '82
1:11.310 -- BMW 2002 Turbo '73
1:11.496 -- Lancia DELTA HF Integrale Evoluzione '91

(Tsukuba/Online/Tyre Wear v.fast/real grip/3 flying laps/CS/Oil Change/ABS 1)

Both the Stratos and the Dome ZERO could have gone one to two seconds faster (and even more in quick hands, i.e. not mine). The ZERO was such a delight I had a hard time putting it away after only three laps. I don't remember it being so good? The Stratos, as usual, was hard for me to extract speed from; I was 1.something up on that time on one lap before chucking it too hard into the last turn.

Personally I would suggest adding the BMW 120d (1:11.463) as it was an absolute joy to drive, even if not particularly quick (yes, I know, there are already 2 BMWs), and the Hommel Berlinette (1:10.372) for another 'interesting' mid-pack car. At Tsukuba at least, it waggled its tail almost as much as the Stratos.

As far as the luxury list, that looks fine to me. I very much dislike those mercs too, especially the really floaty one with the inaudible engine at low revs (the SL55, I think? Can't remember.). Will take them both out somewhere else tonight, if I get the chance.
 
Off to Spa for some luxury motors lap-time testing.:)

I will set up a room and see how the connections go.

Edit update:
-----------------
I've got a Spa room open. Its friends only though I can change this if necessary.

Any tester is free to join!

GTsail
 
Last edited:
LEGENDS list

💡

1:32.018 -- Ford RS200 '84
1:36.103 -- DMC DeLorean S2 '04
1:36.653 -- Mini Cooper S '11
1:37.148 -- Jaguar E-Type Coupe '61
1:38.094 -- Ford Focus ST170 '03
1:38.116 -- Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) '89
1:38.445 -- Toyota 2000GT '67
1:38.558 -- Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Coupé '54
1:38.826 -- Audi quattro '82
1:38.833 -- Dome ZERO '78
1:38.965 -- Renault 5 Turbo '80
1:39.078 -- Lancia DELTA HF Integrale Evoluzione '91
1:39.191 -- Alpine A110 1600S '73
1:39.213 -- Lancia Stratos '73
0:00.000 -- Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85
0:00.000 -- Nissan SILVIA 240RS (S110) '83

(those last 2 I haven't even tested yet)

And I'm open to consider other legendary suggestions.
And to cutting ones that don't quite fit well enough.
 
Last edited:
amarynceos
Personally I would suggest adding the BMW 120d (1:11.463) as it was an absolute joy to drive, even if not particularly quick
Click to expand...
Yeah after test driving the 120d ... and having driven the 120i when we were running the commuter list ... the difference is night & day. The 120i is kind of wonky... The 120d is smooth oh smooth.

amarynceos
As far as the luxury list, that looks fine to me. I very much dislike those mercs too, especially the really floaty one with the inaudible engine at low revs (the SL55, I think? Can't remember.). Will take them both out somewhere else tonight, if I get the chance.
Click to expand...

I've test driven several cars over the past couple of weeks where I they were so quiet or indistinguishing that I didn't know when to shift properly... I actually got confused.
 
@ryzno and I tried out the two person on-line testing at SPA and it works pretty well, though it doesn't pay-out that much. Only about $9300-9700 credits for each race depending upon who ends up in 1st place. The format of a warm-up lap and then 3 flying laps works good though!

My initial results for the first few luxury cars at Spa:

2:48.389 -- Audi S4 '03 = GTsail9
2:50.785 -- Chrysler 300C '05 = GTsail9
2:51.558 -- Infiniti G35 Coupe '06 = GTsail9
2:52.470 -- Jaguar XK Coupe Luxury '07 = GTsail9

2xxx -- Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Lexus IS F '07 = GTsail9
2xxx -- BMW M3 Coupe '07 = GTsail9
2xxx -- BMW Z8 '01 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Jaguar XFR '10 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Maserati GranTurismo S '08 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Aston Martin Vanquish '04 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Jaguar S-Type R '02 = GTsail9
2xxx -- BMW 135i Coupe '07 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08 = GTsail9
2xxx -- Mercedes-Benz CLK55 AMG '00 = GTsail9

More results as I get to them.

Great fun!
GTsail
 
Cape Ring - South (online)

1:26:250 -- Jaguar S-Type R '02
1:25:794 -- Audi S4 '03
1:25:743 -- BMW 135i Coupe '07
1:25:543 -- Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
1:24:448 -- Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08
1:24:210 -- Jaguar XFR '10
1:24:010 -- Maserati GranTurismo S '08
1:23:577 -- BMW Z8 '01
 
(Spa)

2:40.032 -- Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02 = LongbowX
2:40.546 -- Jaguar XFR '10 = LongbowX
2:40.746 -- Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08 = LongbowX
2:42.245 -- Jaguar S-Type R '02 = LongbowX
2:42.288 -- BMW 135i Coupe '07 = LongbowX

SL55 achieves laptime through acceleration and speed. 135i is over 2 seconds slower just to the first sector(!) Which it only about 30-something seconds long. The XFR is not as fast but handles a little better, also can be tricky as its a bit floaty. The C63 is even more tricky, I can now say I'm not that fond of it either, but it is a challenge. The S-Type doesn't handle bad, worse than the 135i,but makes it up with acceleration. It will likely do better in the races versus the 135i as I said before.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I think we can't let the 135i be quite so far down in the list. :/


Is anyone looking at my Legends list?
No additiaonl suggestions of legendary cars?
 
  1. Jaguar XK Coupe Luxury '07
  2. Chrysler 300C '05
  3. Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
  4. Audi S4 '03
  5. Jaguar S-Type R '02
  6. BMW 135i Coupe '07
  7. Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08
  8. Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
  9. Jaguar XFR '10
  10. BMW Z8 '01
  11. Maserati GranTurismo S '08
  12. BMW M3 Coupe '07
  13. Aston Martin Vanquish '04
  14. Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06
  15. Lexus IS F '07

????
 
I still maintain the S-Type should be switched with the 135i, but if you like it better this way it's fine. It really depends on the throttle time per course, and of course, luck.

The Legends list is certainly as wacky one. I kind of still don't think the Miata deserves to be there, or the newer Mini (and the Focus ST). I'd like something else slotted it that was...older? I don't know. The times spread looks good apart from the RS200 outlier. I would like to see some cars slotted in between it and the rest of the field. Maybe the cars you didn't test will do that.
 
I saw your legends list and I think the problem is the ford rs200 is running laps 3 seconds faster than the second fastest car
 
I was hoping that maybe someone would have a suggestion for fill ins.
Besides, until someone else tests these cars on some other track, we'll never even know if any of them are actually compatible or 3 or 10 seconds apart. :lol:
Remember - these are MY lap times. not Longbow's. :lol:


The Miata is there because it's the best selling sports car world wide.
Ford... is a legendary make... and granted, there's not many legendary models as options to include. :(
Besides, when I worked in advertising for the automotive industry 10 years ago, Focus was HOT HOT HOT. :lol: :rolleyes:

I'm open to more suggestions.
And then we'll start testing and really see how it works out.

  1. Jaguar XK Coupe Luxury '07
  2. Chrysler 300C '05
  3. Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
  4. Audi S4 '03
  5. BMW 135i Coupe '07
  6. Jaguar S-Type R '02
  7. Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08
  8. Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
  9. Jaguar XFR '10
  10. BMW Z8 '01
  11. Maserati GranTurismo S '08
  12. BMW M3 Coupe '07
  13. Aston Martin Vanquish '04
  14. Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06
  15. Lexus IS F '07

?

I guess that's fine. Becaues then if a slower driver (like me) comes in 3,4,5... at least in the next race they won't get a handful next race.
 
I will think more about the fill-ins...but nothing comes immediately to mind. 1200 cars and still not enough variety. :lol:

I think out the three I mentioned, the Miata is the one I would most likely include. The Mini (maybe want the Countryman for more modern 'rally' heritage!) and Ford don't really fit. Ford...yeah it does have some legendary rally machines. Too bad they aren't better represented... And the Focus was hot...and then Europe got a new vastly improved model and we didn't! That was the worst...

I think your testing is just as relevant as any other...They will end up being similar on my list.

I understand why you put the 135i where it was...on the curvier tracks it will be better. And that many seemed to get more out of it because of how forgiving it is. I just think that it won't translate as well in the race even if some can drive it better than S-Type R. But it's really a flip of a coin. The 135i will lose out more in race trim but people may still drive it better. Hard to know until we get on the track.
 
Well wait - I didn't put them there - I was going by the test data. :lol:
I mean just so that is clear. The original order was based on averages from testers.
 
  1. Jaguar XK Coupe Luxury '07
  2. Chrysler 300C '05
  3. Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
  4. Audi S4 '03
  5. BMW 135i Coupe '07
  6. Jaguar S-Type R '02
  7. Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08
  8. Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
  9. Jaguar XFR '10
  10. BMW Z8 '01
  11. Maserati GranTurismo S '08
  12. BMW M3 Coupe '07
  13. Aston Martin Vanquish '04
  14. Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06
  15. Lexus IS F '07

I'd rather not have to fuss with it.
And chances are there will be no way to know for sure what's going on. They're in the middle, so it'll really be a toss up because there's all SORTS of reasons drivers wind up finishing in the middle somewhere.

I mean opposed to the reasons people wind up at the back or on podium.
There are just a few reasons why people wind up in the back - slow car, being bad in a car, being a slow driver, messing up, having a collision.
Also - people win because being fast, having a faster car, not messing up.
People wind up in the middle for ALL of those reasons both.


What I mean is that given ideal circumstances for everybody... people in the middle maybe should've finished higher or lower... sometimes you finish in the middle and it's a big deal that you did that well... sometimes you finish in the middle because you messed up & you could've finished up front.
 
One thing is for sure...
It will take a lot of skill AND a lot of luck to podium 2 races in a row.
And that's how it should be in this set-up.
It should be VERY difficult to podium 2 races in a row.
And it should be nearly impossible (or extremely improbable) to win 2 races in a row.

I think that's the best you could hope for in mixing things up & make sure everyone's competing in every race, among different drivers in mixed model racing.


Append:
And that was my original idea behind this - and also why shuffle was always popular.
Because you want to have a mixed up grid... You want people to be competing all over the grid in every race. And also, you want people to be competing against different drivers - not the same drivers all the time you see over & over on track all the time because they're just similar skill to you.
 
I think with this list it will be even tougher than some of the lower powered cars, but we'll see. It also makes people more prone to mistakes most likely... We'll see though.

Inevitable that the people who are similar in speed end up together though. You always get the idea of who your competition is. Not always together but you do end up seeing them a fair bit. That's not a bad thing...good racing is good racing.
 

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