Makeshift Shuffle - No Tuning RacesOpen 

watermelonpunch
Yeah, I didn't understand which "he" was attached to handlebar or cc570 :boggled:

That's sort of what happened with you & I on Matterhorn that time.
I thought you dive bombed me at a turn, & pushed out into me forcing into a space that didn't exist.
But when I looked at the replay it appeared you had overlap before the turn-in point, and I was trying to run the racing line without leaving room for you, and I had to admit, it looked like my movement caused the contact.

Anyway, who gained position in the cc570 vs. handlebar incident?
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Handlebar did. Based on what I saw after cc went wide he should have taken a more outside line instead of going back inside but perhaps cc didnt see handlebar. I don't believe it was a serious incident and I do t think any penalties should be applied.
 
watermelonpunch
I'm also going to post a post about the definition of "off-roading".

NOTE: this is for linking from the OP, and not directed at anyone in particular.
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I find that hard to believe. :lol:

--

I will look at the replays, I'm curious anyway...I tried to look at one and it locked up but maybe I'll have better luck next time.
 
Ahem. I didn't want tongo to think I was ganging up on him bearing in mind cc570's comment. :odd:

But by all means, if you feel you need the refresher. :lol: :sly: ;)
 
daddyo845
Handlebar did. Based on what I saw after cc went wide he should have taken a more outside line instead of going back inside but perhaps cc didnt see handlebar. I don't believe it was a serious incident and I do t think any penalties should be applied.
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Okay so let me get this straight, just so I understand.

cc570 was going through the turn, and swung a bit wide, then corrected, came back in, to find Handlebar there having taken advantage of the opening, and bumped handlebar... but handlebar is the one who came out ahead in the end?

If that's the scenario, then yes, I don't see any reason for any penalties.
 
daddyo845
I've reviewed the replay on autumn ring mini with handlebar and cc on the third lap and I have to say it looked like handlebar was running the correct line and cc dove into the inside of the corner after he went wide. I don't believe it was handlebars fault and that a concession was necessary. I would like someone else other than cc or handlebar to review this because this is my first time giving my opinion on a replay so I want to know if I'm making the right call.
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Watch the replay from handlebars viewpoint and watch my front wheels. I turn in before he makes any overlap. By the time contact is made I have finished turning and have straightened my wheels out. I do believe I had a right to my line being in front. No worries either way.
 
watermelonpunch
Okay so let me get this straight, just so I understand.

cc570 was going through the turn, and swung a bit wide, then corrected, came back in, to find Handlebar there having taken advantage of the opening, and bumped handlebar... but handlebar is the one who came out ahead in the end?

If that's the scenario, then yes, I don't see any reason for any penalties.
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Yes exactly
 
watermelonpunch
Okay so let me get this straight, just so I understand.

cc570 was going through the turn, and swung a bit wide, then corrected, came back in, to find Handlebar there having taken advantage of the opening, and bumped handlebar... but handlebar is the one who came out ahead in the end?

If that's the scenario, then yes, I don't see any reason for any penalties.
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No correction just taking an out in out line through the turn. No worries anyway.
 
For any situation that is similar - Check speeds and gearing of all vehicles, of course, and the G-Force indicator - I cannot recall if that is in GT6 or not.

It is certainly possible I erred, just worth looking at both perspectives as well as the other data we have on inputs when possible.
 
Yes, well, in close racing & tight traffic, I always advise driving a DEFENSIVE line when you're in front... rather than assuming you can keep the racing line.
Not that you don't have the right to the racing line, but it's just prudent, to avoid allowing temptations to the behind driver. :rolleyes:

By this I mean:
B:
Leading cars have the right to take their line of choice through corners. I.e. they may drive a defensive line around the inside of a corner to protect their position, thereby forcing an attacking driver to try to pass around the outside. This is not blocking and is part of normal racing etiquette. In fact, apart from the restrictions of rule 10:A, a leading driver can drive any line which they feel is the most inconvenient for any following car to try to pass them.
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It cuts down on a LOT of getting bumped in situations like that.

I successfully did this at the Zero Cup Lotus Elan races. There was one driver constantly looking to get in my inside on straights. Not aggressively. But I could see him there in my rear view looking for a spot on the inside to get the nose up alongside before the turn. So I continually drove the inside line into every turn, and forced him to try & pass on the outside... thereby lessening the chances of my getting pushed or having to run the outside myself to leave room for his overlap.
 
watermelonpunch
Yes, well, in close racing & tight traffic, I always advise driving a DEFENSIVE line when you're in front... rather than assuming you can keep the racing line.
Not that you don't have the right to the racing line, but it's just prudent, to avoid allowing temptations to the behind driver. :rolleyes:

By this I mean:


It cuts down on a LOT of getting bumped in situations like that.

I successfully did this at the Zero Cup Lotus Elan races. There was one driver constantly looking to get in my inside on straights. Not aggressively. But I could see him there in my rear view looking for a spot on the inside to get the nose up alongside before the turn. So I continually drove the inside line into every turn, and forced him to try & pass on the outside... thereby lessening the chances of my getting pushed or having to run the outside myself to leave room for his overlap.
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True. But. . .
The problem with taking a defensive line is it usually is slower. And your often trying to catch the car in front of you as much as you are trying not to get passed.

Now from the GTP-OLR rules
"A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver."

If you are passing someone and there is contact you know it, you hear it and you feel it. Do the right thing.

Also
"B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner's turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver's position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in." (my bolding)

My experience is that many people drive like the apex of a corner is the turn-in point.:rolleyes:

Well, I don't race for points or glory so I'm not concerned with points or penalties and am not concerned about this or other incidents. At the same time I think that discussing these incidents is a good thing as it should lead to a more uniform understanding/interpretation of the rules and cleaner, closer racing.👍

Yes, passing should be hard.:mischievous:
 
Well this I wanted someone else to review the replay but I don't know if anyone can. It seems as though the gtp olr sometimes contradicts itself. In those situations we would have to make the decision ourselves
 
The OLR has more than 8 sections. 18 in fact. 17 seems relevant here.

Sure, it is not bad to discuss incidents, or policies in public, but if we are going to follow the OLR, let's follow all of it, not just the parts we want to at the moment?

Since I can't see my replay, I have said all I can on this matter.
 
Stupid replay issue!
:mad:
Anyway, unless someone else not involved in an incident can see a replay, there's nothing doing. Because yes, daddyo845 is new to this, as he says. It's not fair to put it all on him.
Enough said. :indiff:

About driving the defensive line.
This was a suggestion... that I have found helpful.

Obviously yes, the ahead driver has the choice of line, if there wasn't substantial overlap before a turn in.
And you could face post-race penalties if you don't follow this rule.

And the racing line is faster, in an ideal situation.

But in a tight race with lots of traffic, I think NOT having someone bump me off track is also faster than being bumped even if I'm given a contact concession.

I'll say this... I have noticed in all these races, when I'm up against some of the fastest drivers involved, I notice that once they find a way a head of someone - they seem to focus on keeping faster cars behind them just as much as, if not more, than getting ahead themselves.
I don't think that's a coincidence.

I'm not "blaming the victim" for race incidents. I'm merely trying to share what I've learned about avoiding getting hit, by not opening the door for temptation or errors by the behind driver.
 
@buraspo & @HONESTGUV
WECOME :gtpflag:

Be sure to read the race procedure instructions and the rules section in the OP.
Everything you need to know about the scheduled events, which cars will be used on what tracks, is in post #2

If you have any questions, feel free to ask! :)


Also, it's a good thing to reserve a spot in advance, as spots get reserved. So if you have an idea of which days you're likely to race, let me know, so I can put you on the reserved spots lists. 👍
 
watermelonpunch
@buraspo & @HONESTGUV
WECOME :gtpflag:

Be sure to read the race procedure instructions and the rules section in the OP.
Everything you need to know about the scheduled events, which cars will be used on what tracks, is in post #2

If you have any questions, feel free to ask! :)


Also, it's a good thing to reserve a spot in advance, as spots get reserved. So if you have an idea of which days you're likely to race, let me know, so I can put you on the reserved spots lists. 👍
Click to expand...


Certainly will - and thanks again mate
 
CC570
Autumn Ring Handlebar mustache: 1st lap bumped Jack Argent did not concede pass,1st lap bumped cc570 did give back position, 3rd lap bumped cc570 did not concede pass.
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I took a look at this. The first incident on lap 1 with JackArgent with Handlebar looked to be Handlebar carrying too much speed (it took place in the initial esses: turn 3). While there was a large gap, the "corners" are not so clearly defined by apex there, especially in the wet. Nevertheless, there was space, and Handlebar chose to exploit it. But with the too much speed, drifted wide enough to knock JackArgent a little (but not off the track, did lose him speed however). There was space, but in my opinion there was too much speed for the racing line Handlebar was taking, considering JackArgent did not change his line on the outside and he drifted into him.

The 3rd lap incident seems to be. CC570 was entering the corner, he judged it to be too quick (and/or wide) an entry and decided to dive to the apex by slowing more than otherwise required. I think Handlebar simply did not expect such a slow entry (more than 5mph less than Handlebar was going to take the corner at). The two cars met at the apex. Handlebar was committed to the inside (the line he was taking anyway, I think) and then CC570 chose to enter it slowly (towards the apex) unexpectedly. There was contact, but it definitely could have been worse. I don't think Handlebar even intended to pass there, it just happened because of the speed differential and he was trying to avoid contact. This one is a bit more difficult to judge, so @daddyo845 had his hands full with his first review! I think this is more of a racing incident...it's hard to attribute fault. The onus is on the car passing, but I don't even there was an intent to pass. So I would say it was more of a racing incident. Although I will say....Handlebar could have applied more brakes when he saw what was about to happen to avoid it more (he was not on the throttle). It happens very fast though.

Also, this might just be a coincidence...but I seem to have more success loading replays when I do so when not signed in (to PSN).
 
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LongbowX
I took a look at this. The first incident on lap 1 with JackArgent with Handlebar looked to be Handlebar carrying too much speed (it took place in the initial esses: turn 3). While there was a large gap, the "corners" are not so clearly defined by apex there, especially in the wet. Nevertheless, there was space, and Handlebar chose to exploit it. But with the too much speed, drifted wide enough to knock JackArgent a little (but not off the track, did lose him speed however). There was space, but in my opinion there was too much speed for the racing line Handlebar was taking, considering JackArgent did not change his line on the outside and he drifted into him.

The 3rd lap incident seems to be. CC570 was entering the corner, he judged it to be too quick (and/or wide) an entry and decided to dive to the apex by slowing more than otherwise required. I think Handlebar simply did not expect such a slow entry (more than 5mph less than Handlebar was going to take the corner at). The two cars met at the apex. Handlebar was committed to the inside (the line he was taking anyway, I think) and then CC570 chose to enter it slowly (towards the apex) unexpectedly. There was contact, but it definitely could have been worse. I don't think Handlebar even intended to pass there, it just happened because of the speed differential and he was trying to avoid contact. This one is a bit more difficult to judge, so @daddyo845 had his hands full with his first review! I think this is more of a racing incident...it's hard to attribute fault. The onus is on the car passing, but I don't even there was an intent to pass. So I would say it was more of a racing incident. Although I will say....Handlebar could have applied more brakes when he saw what was about to happen to avoid it more (he was not on the throttle). It happens very fast though.

Also, this might just be a coincidence...but I seem to have more success loading replays when I do so when not signed in (to PSN).
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Very good analysis. I was turning in early and hard trying to keep that Yaris from understeering. By the time we made contact I was done cornering and getting on the throttle. I wouldn't assign fault either.
 

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