Mass Shooting in Las Vegas

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Guns can only shoot. All they do is shoot, they serve no other function, beyond wounding and taking life. All sports they're involved in are based on that function. In my view there's nothing glorious about shooting things, whether to injure or kill. Sure, people can be skilled shooters, but I personally have little respect for people who take pride in their ability to shoot things, people or animals.
Do you look at a bow and arrow or crossbow differently than a gun? How do you feel about Olympic shooting and archery competitions? Should we reward people with gold medals for their ability to shoot at targets in a competition environment?
 
Breaking "news" indicates rumors the gunman actually checked in two days earlier than previously announced, and may have had a companion with him during part or even all of that time. It couldn't have been the woman under investigation because she was out of the country. Recall there were two shooting positions with platforms about 10 meters apart. And I heard a witness of the shooting remarking upon the sound of two different kinds of gun reports at the same time. If this has substance, it will likely be coming out in major way shortly.
 
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Guns can only shoot. All they do is shoot, they serve no other function,
This sounds reasonable.

beyond wounding and taking life.
This is something different entirely. Shooting does not necessarily take anymore lives than stabbing or cutting [you dinner] does.

All sports they're involved in are based on that function. In my view there's nothing glorious about shooting things, whether to injure or kill.
I've taken part in recreational shooting. I've never killed anything with a gun, I've never been taught how to kill something with a gun while in possession of one, let alone really thought about it. A gun used for sport isn't much different from a soccer ball. A lot of the shooting that I did was actually with guns that had features to make them really bad a killing people.

It's not hard to understand why people sometimes link guns and death, just look at war. It's still strange when people then go on to pretend that guns can't be used in any other way.

Sure, people can be skilled shooters, but I personally have little respect for people who take pride in their ability to shoot things, people or animals. I hate guns. I'm not trying to claim that it should be the global world view, but at the same time I and people like like me roll their eyes when disasters like this mass shooting occur.
You can hate anything, but that doesn't mean that other people have to give up those things.
 
Believe me, I could not care less how other people feel about gun owners and people who have huge collections of guns, but I personally don't want to be around said gun owners.

I really don't give a **** about how other people perceive gun owners.
If how other people feel about gun owners isn't relevant to you, then how you feel about gun owners isn't relevant to other people. Which is why it was meaningless to bring it up in the first place (let alone continuing to do so), like I said.
 
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The amount of calculation by Paddock is becoming pretty chilling, he booked into an Air BNB apartment overlooking another music event just days before the shooting probably as a dry run and there is evidence he aimed to survive the event to probably go on to commit another shooting whilst on the run.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police

Also the Police don't believe he acted alone, there is no way a guy in his 60's didn't have some sort of help at some point during all the planning of this.
 
The amount of calculation by Paddock is becoming pretty chilling, he booked into an Air BNB apartment overlooking another music event just days before the shooting probably as a dry run and there is evidence he aimed to survive the event to probably go on to commit another shooting whilst on the run.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police

Also the Police don't believe he acted alone, there is no way a guy in his 60's didn't have some sort of help at some point during all the planning of this.
We don't have a lot of evidence yet but I don't see anything that a guy in his 60's, who has all the time in the world and bags of money, couldn't do alone. What's to plan? Rent a room for a few days, haul in your guns and ammo, shoot, commit suicide. The visit to the other music festival might have been a practice run for all we know.
 
Humans have the ability of Free will, every single person here for example is capable of killing people in cold blood(the equipment may differ) and all of us have the ability to not kill(at least not intentionally), this stuff is going to happen regardless if there isn't even a motive.

It is fully possible that someone just wanted to kill as much people as possible for no reason and not because of X.

I also don't like comparisons where Americas murder rate is compared to other countries, it doesn't prove that there is a gun problem if it's much higher it proves there is a killing problem.

Lets use Football/Soccer for example, some teams have more violent fans then others, this is just going to happen and it's most likely for other reasons not relating to Football.
 
We don't have a lot of evidence yet but I don't see anything that a guy in his 60's, who has all the time in the world and bags of money, couldn't do alone. What's to plan? Rent a room for a few days, haul in your guns and ammo, shoot, commit suicide. The visit to the other music festival might have been a practice run for all we know.

I did say that I thought the visit to the other music festival was likely a dry run.

I'm talking about help from a practical standpoint, not a financial or planning one. As for his age how did he get 10 suitcases filled with ammunition and guns up to his room? I don't think he used the bell boy! He must be a pretty fit 60 year old to have done that. Also there is talk that some of the guns he owned were not verifiably purchased, so someone must have given them to him.

Of course we don't know everything yet but this is what's coming from the Police, they believe he didn't act alone.
 
I did say that I thought the visit to the other music festival was likely a dry run.

I'm talking about help from a practical standpoint, not a financial or planning one. As for his age how did he get 10 suitcases filled with ammunition and guns up to his room? I don't think he used the bell boy! He must be a pretty fit 60 year old to have done that. Also there is talk that some of the guns he owned were not verifiably purchased, so someone must have given them to him.

Of course we don't know everything yet but this is what's coming from the Police, they believe he didn't act alone.
You know hotels have baggage carts right? Suitcases have wheels? He was there for a few days, known to the hotel and staff and could come and go as he pleases. The room was comped from what I read. I'm sure they are pouring over the security cam footage and we'll know details soon enough. He may have had help but, so far, I haven't seen anything that absolutely needed 2 people to complete.
 
...the Police, they believe he didn't act alone.

I'd be careful about saying what it is the Sheriff believes. Sometimes beliefs about criminal conspiracies are political, and the Mayor and/or higher officials will issue the Sheriff, or the Police Chief, his beliefs down to him according to the required politics of the situation.

As a rule, we prefer the "lone gunman" theories to the conspiracies.
 
I did say that I thought the visit to the other music festival was likely a dry run.

I'm talking about help from a practical standpoint, not a financial or planning one. As for his age how did he get 10 suitcases filled with ammunition and guns up to his room? I don't think he used the bell boy! He must be a pretty fit 60 year old to have done that. Also there is talk that some of the guns he owned were not verifiably purchased, so someone must have given them to him.

Of course we don't know everything yet but this is what's coming from the Police, they believe he didn't act alone.
For whatever it's worth, the FBI and the Sheriff aren't really agreeing on what they are saying. The Sheriff says they think he had help, while the FBI says they are only working in facts, not in assumptions.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police


So far, they have apparently found legitimate purchase histories for 50 of the guns dating as far back as 1982, tracing them to California, Nevada, Texas, and Utah.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-gunman-planned-escape-sheriff/story?id=50273390

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-ve...-paddock-gun-purchases-didnt-raise-red-flags/
 
Yesterday I was listening to Joe Rogan's podcast with Alonzo Bodden and they talked about the fact that this was a white guy shooting white people and not a black guy shooting white people or a white people shooting black people. With the racial tensions and identity politics rising in the last couple of years, the fact that things happened as they did is kind off a """lucky""" coincidence*.

*unless we find out the shooter deliberately wanted to kill white people.
 
https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10...er-is-complete-nonsense-stephen-paddock.html#

Let's pick apart the conspiracy theory. Some of those questions answer other questions. I'll kick things off with the fact that it's not easy to tell what floor you're looking at from the outside of a las vegas building. Most effective way to do it (if you know how many floors the building has) is to count down from the top.
The weapons in question were not full auto, but semi-auto.

And they are designed to take enormous amounts of stress and shots fired before requiring clean-up. 600 RPM, about what the guy shot at, isn't damaging to the gun for the most part. In this context, the gun damage didn't matter because the guy had other guns.
 
The weapons in question were not full auto, but semi-auto.

And they are designed to take enormous amounts of stress and shots fired before requiring clean-up. 600 RPM, about what the guy shot at, isn't damaging to the gun for the most part. In this context, the gun damage didn't matter because the guy had other guns.

...which answers the question about why so many guns... so that he could deal with a jam, overheated, or otherwise damaged gun.
 
It is fully possible that someone just wanted to kill as much people as possible for no reason and not because of X.

Not really. There may not be a good reason, but one does not take an action that far from the norm without consideration. You can get out of bed in the morning without thinking about it because it's a customary action, but one does not kill that many people with that much planning with no thought at all.

He must be a pretty fit 60 year old to have done that.

You make it sound like being 60 you have one foot in the grave. You should meet some 60 year olds. Many are as capable and active as people half their age, or even more so. Just because someone is under 30 doesn't mean that they are athletic.
 
You make it sound like being 60 you have one foot in the grave. You should meet some 60 year olds. Many are as capable and active as people half their age, or even more so.
My mother is 59 and could probably kill someone in one hit. She's also a short woman, too.

So I agree with Imari here.
 
As for his age how did he get 10 suitcases filled with ammunition and guns up to his room? I don't think he used the bell boy! He must be a pretty fit 60 year old to have done that. Also there is talk that some of the guns he owned were not verifiably purchased, so someone must have given them to him.

You make it sound like being 60 you have one foot in the grave. You should meet some 60 year olds. Many are as capable and active as people half their age, or even more so. Just because someone is under 30 doesn't mean that they are athletic.

This is part of the conspiracy theory, that a 60 year old could not sustain 10 minutes of fire with an automatic weapon. It's really not a big deal to take 10 heavy suitcases up to your room in a hotel by yourself. Especially if they roll. Just take your time, space it out, take breaks, and if they roll... well... just roll it. You can also get a luggage cart without a bellboy.

In terms of sustaining fire for 10 minutes, I think it's important to keep in mind that this guy was completing something he'd been planning for a long time, and was probably so pumped full of adrenaline for what he knew would most likely be the last moments in his life (even if he held out hope for an escape), he probably didn't even notice.
 
Not really. There may not be a good reason, but one does not take an action that far from the norm without consideration. You can get out of bed in the morning without thinking about it because it's a customary action, but one does not kill that many people with that much planning with no thought at all.
I Said Possible, so yes it is.

It's easily possible for someone to plan something that they had no reason for doing other then just wanting to.

Even though it's unlikely there is no reason I still wouldn't rule it out.
 
This is part of the conspiracy theory, that a 60 year old could not sustain 10 minutes of fire with an automatic weapon. It's really not a big deal to take 10 heavy suitcases up to your room in a hotel by yourself. Especially if they roll. Just take your time, space it out, take breaks, and if they roll... well... just roll it. You can also get a luggage cart without a bellboy.

In terms of sustaining fire for 10 minutes, I think it's important to keep in mind that this guy was completing something he'd been planning for a long time, and was probably so pumped full of adrenaline for what he knew would most likely be the last moments in his life (even if he held out hope for an escape), he probably didn't even notice.
I'm pretty sure anyone could get the weapons and ammo up to their room using the luggage carts. He had over 3 days to do it, if he checked in on Thursday, as was reported.

He also wasn't sustaining fire for 10 consecutive minutes. There were definite breaks while he was changing magazines and swapping guns. Some of the guns also appeared to have bipod or tripod setups on them to help him support the weight of the weapon and steady his aim.
 
If this dude had 50+ guns with purchases dating back to 1982, that’s at least 35 years of experience with those weapons. As others have said, plenty of 60 years are still in great shape and with that kind of exposure over that length of time, you know this man had learned how to keep himself conditioned to shoot them all those years.

I think Danoff even alluded to at one point about how do you stop someone from stock piling guns for several years before becoming a nut job who turns them on the public?
 
As for his age how did he get 10 suitcases filled with ammunition and guns up to his room?

Me da walked the Pennine Way carrying all his camping gear when he was 68. Meanwhile I'm forty-mumble-something and would probably collapse in the lobby under that kind of weight. Age is just a number, it's down to how much pie you eat.
 
I'm talking about help from a practical standpoint, not a financial or planning one. As for his age how did he get 10 suitcases filled with ammunition and guns up to his room? I don't think he used the bell boy! He must be a pretty fit 60 year old to have done that.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest he used wheeled suitcases and took the elevator.
 
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As for his age how did he get 10 suitcases filled with ammunition and guns up to his room? I don't think he used the bell boy!
10 trips, maybe? He could have even asked for help from staff, if it's not obvious what's inside the suitcases it doesn't make a difference. I've helped guests in our hotel with their luggage countless times, I've never looked inside.

I also don't like comparisons where Americas murder rate is compared to other countries, it doesn't prove that there is a gun problem if it's much higher it proves there is a killing problem.
The murder rate is a statistic that can be manipulated but it's pretty obvious that the sort of event that happened Sunday only ever seems to happen in the US, which is the only country where you can easily buy the sort of weapons used. Something needs to be done about it or they'll keep happening.
 
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