Massive Changes Coming to Gran Turismo 7 in Response to Fan Feedback

[Johnnn]

Which was the best wheel that you played on?

Oh, it's very long time ago but last one was G25. I played GT5 on it. Good old GT with a career.

 

[wheelhp]

Oh, it's very long time ago but last one was G25. I played GT5 on it. Good old GT with a career.

Oh yeah G25 was a great wheel for the time. I have a G27 with a GIMX adapter, I can race on the new consoles and change the FFB to some degree.


My question to you is, If gamepads were the exact same as a wheel, then why do F1 cars in real life all use steering wheels and pedals to control the car? shouldn't the controllers be the same thing and result in less driver fatigue? Why don't real cars use simply gamepads instead of big steering wheels and pedals? Whats' the reasoning you have for that?

 

[Johnnn]

Oh yeah G25 was a great wheel for the time. I have a G27 with a GIMX adapter, I can race on the new consoles and change the FFB to some degree.


My question to you is, If gamepads were the exact same as a wheel, then why do F1 cars in real life all use steering wheels and pedals to control the car? shouldn't the controllers be the same thing and result in less driver fatigue? Why don't real cars use simply gamepads instead of big steering wheels and pedals? Whats' the reasoning you have for that?

Yes, my friend had G27. Rather good wheels for the time (and price).

It's easy. In real car you are not on your coach, right? Forces are everywhere so it's necessary to have worse but much more precise machine. If you go over a bump and move the wheel one cm, it's not a problem. Imagine the same on a gamepad.

 

[wheelhp]

Yes, my friend had G27. Rather good wheels for the time (and price).

It's easy. In real car you are not on your coach, right? Forces are everywhere so it's necessary to have worse but much more precise machine. If you go over a bump and move the wheel one cm, it's not a problem. Imagine the same on a gamepad.

Thanks for answering my question!

Yes actually G27 was a decent wheel for the time, the only reason I use it still is because I'm planning on upgrading to a T300RS or something slightly better but not so expensive, the cost is always a factor for me! I'm not planning on dropping anywhere near 1000 on a sim wheel when my old one does the job for me! I have a GTEye progressive spring brake mod which helps with my braking zones enough.

 

[equalitus]

Great that they are "listening" now, but.... Make the game playable offline and it's all good.

Almost, also need player options for PP limits and tyre/car type choice in single player modus.

 

[tofuhero]

I'm pretty skeptical as to how much they will ease off the required grinding. I will reserve any kind of praise until I see the results. So far Kaz's statements just sound like a F2P mobile game easing the pressure just enough so that the money will start flowing again.

It's sad that two letters from Kaz primarily talk about the currency system in the game instead of gameplay improvements. It's also sad to me that so many GT fans are defending the grinding as a necessary part of the experience. I'm here to drive and race cars I will never be able to otherwise. GT Sport brought me back to the series after a long absence, but GT7 is making me want to leave again.

 

[equalitus]

No mention of custom race payouts being fixed and also I want to be able to create a custom championship, then I might be happier.

If we could change all the important parameters/rules in custom championships which included the same money/points gained, then not extreme need for an ingame editor or to change the PP limits and tyre rules.

 

[equalitus]

Well this is good. I was on the verge of selling my PS5 today but I guess now I have to rethink that. The AI need massive work though. I don’t care about new races when I don’t have fun in them. Most of the time you start over 20 seconds back and have to chase the leader, which sometimes just isn’t very possible in the WTC races. Or you pass everyone like they’re standing still. And the AI have no spatial awareness and will often punt you off. Often the races in this game are more of a frustrating experience than a fun one. Many games have way better AI at this point. Anyway, while this update is good, it’s not great. We were all lied to at the beginning, with PD hiding the economy from reviewers to get glowing reviews and then use us who spent 70 bucks as guinea pigs. That will also leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I almost forgot to mention the frustrating 'chase the rabbit' playing style which is stupid and boring because it is forced. It takes a few minutes of coding to change the rules so the player decides to start from stand-still or 20 secs late!

 

[regnar]

It's a shame they intentionally crippled the Custom Race Mode, With there focus on keeping credits gained to a minimum in this game, I believe they've reduced the credits so severely as so no one can credit farm or be tempted to.
No save mode so as to not be convenient, so there's the additional time setting up races each time.

Forced BOP when 'Select from garage' when setting up a mix group of cars. This would make since when selecting car classes GR.1, GR.2 etc., but not mixed group of cars.

 

[equalitus]

I wouldn't do it for less than 24mil as it currently stands, and they have to have some type of pause mechanic that allows us to leave and play other races, or bring back b-spec. No way I'm playing for 24hr straight, lol. Couldn't find the time even if I wanted to play that long.

Though if they actually increase payouts to the point where we don't have to grind just to be able to afford a set of tires, I'll be a lot more likely to do events for the fun of doing them rather than only running the most efficient races.

If they do what they claim they are going to do, and do it properly, I'll adjust mine. But not before I actually see the changes myself.

A 24 minutes option is necessary, it was one of the few changes from GT5 to GT6 that was very good improvement, even though perhaps a small minority of players wanted the 24 HOURS option? Even though I think 30 mins is more than enough and 60 mins are too much, I did complete several endurance races on GT3, since none of them lasts for several hours!

 

[MadJackMcMad]

Their approach to custom races is bizarre to me. As if it’s designed to be the ‘end game’ content, which you can play purely for fun (when credit rewards are no longer a concern) once you’ve completed your collection/done grinding - which no one realistically will be within the economy they initially created (where players are never done grinding given the paltry rewards and exuberant cost of cars).

 

[equalitus]

Thanks to Hagerty. I despise that partnership so much it's not even funny. They literally have NOTHING to do with the game, slap their name on a dealership they didn't even help make and then ruin the prices of those cars inside said dealership with their real world valuations inside something that's supposed to be an escape from reality.

If Kaz didn't literary/actually disconnect from the real world in GT1/2/3/4/5/6 it would not have been fun at all.

 

[Jtheripper]

Their approach to custom races is bizarre to me. As if it’s designed to be the ‘end game’ content, which you can play purely for fun (when credit rewards are no longer a concern) once you’ve completed your collection/done grinding - which no one realistically will be within the economy they initially created (where players are never done grinding given the paltry rewards and exuberant cost of cars).

This game is a joke for sp, only for mp simple fun i guess. Hope for ones who play mp that rewards are better than sp.
Not gonna grind for years on end to get each top interesting priced cars.
Been irrelevant for long, he's out of touch, and now focused more and more on online and mts and marketing fluff.
Not getting a cent from me, that's for sure.
I stopped grinding in gts, and uninstalled, waste of my time, focus , cash and energy.

 

[VinylRichie]

Thanks to Hagerty. I despise that partnership so much it's not even funny. They literally have NOTHING to do with the game, slap their name on a dealership they didn't even help make and then ruin the prices of those cars inside said dealership with their real world valuations inside something that's supposed to be an escape from reality.

This game has even the word „simulator“ in his name, so why do say it is supposed to be an escape from reality? Kaz‘s ambition was exactly the opposite when he started the the first GT, he wanted to bring reality trough consoles to the people in a time were only old school arcade racers were popular.

 

[ScottPuss20]

ACC is definitively a better sim racing title.

It sure is but if you don't have a league to race in, it's kinda worthless.

 

[Silver Arrows]

This game has even the word „simulator“ in his name, so why do say it is supposed to be an escape from reality? Kaz‘s ambition was exactly the opposite when he started the the first GT, he wanted to bring reality trough consoles to the people in a time were only old school arcade racers were popular.

Ignoring the fact that the word 'simulator' has been more defined in the time since the first GT (and arguably, it was already defined but considering 95% of this forum doesn't really care about 90's PC racing sims or any of Papyrus' work, it's a pointless narrowing of things):

The issue is that ultimately, Hagerty's partnership in the game does nothing. At the current stage we cannot sell cars, we can only buy. And vehicles that come from before 2001 or so cannot be bought as zero mile examples at all, only with a random variable of miles attached, unless they are apart of the Menu reward tree. If this was going to be 'real life' then we absolutrly should have the option to sell our vehicles for a price that we believe is commiserate to the value that Hagerty themselves set within the game. That's about the only place I can see the live and flexible pricing of Legend Vehicles (and really, UCD vehicles) to be ultimately useful.

But we don't know how long it is before we get this basic feature back, or what even the rates for vehicles that get sold is. And it doesn't exactly take away from the fact that so much of the game's worst problems in terms of its gameplay and feature set come from the mind of a guy who obviously spends too much time with car guys then he does anyone with any sort of actual finger on the pulse on what makes games fun. Because that is what GT is. Sure, it is a simulator (though on the simcade portion of the sliding scale of racing games) but it is also, by Kaz's own admission in how the game is designed, a game. If you are going to try and make the game more realistic, then let us sell our cars. Either in an auction house setting like Forza, or hell even a classified setting, I don't really care.

 

[787B GT4]

This game has even the word „simulator“ in his name, so why do say it is supposed to be an escape from reality? Kaz‘s ambition was exactly the opposite when he started the the first GT, he wanted to bring reality trough consoles to the people in a time were only old school arcade racers were popular.

There's a difference between making something realistic for the sake of being true to physics VS making realistic prices for the sake of making your game insanely annoying to the people that have played your games for the past 25 years and remember full well what the prices should be.

They are cherry picking what to make realistic and what not to. You can sell cars IRL but not in GT7. How is that "realistic"? Also an NSX is half a million? R34 Skyline half a million? FD RX-7 quarter of a million? That's not realistic, that's greed. Pristine examples of all 3 of those cars can be had for 100K or under all day long.

I rest my case.

 

[Ande3200]

I think the 100 increase in rewards is enough, its just needs a lot of different events and championchips so you not doing the same races over and over, right now i can’t use a lot of the cars in the game in the world circuits section there should be more events and championchips than there was at launch, the 100 increase in rewards and more events is going to bumping it up from 7/10 to 8,5/10 for me if there is a good amount events added,

 

[bar1010bar]

Thoughts?

These updates should be nice. Would like to see a TRACK CREATOR available in the future with the ability to upload one’s tracks to the internet and download tracks that others have created.

 

[VinylRichie]

There's a difference between making something realistic for the sake of being true to physics VS making realistic prices for the sake of making your game insanely annoying to the people that have played your games for the past 25 years and remember full well what the prices should be.

They are cherry picking what to make realistic and what not to. You can sell cars IRL but not in GT7. How is that "realistic"? Also an NSX is half a million? R34 Skyline half a million? FD RX-7 quarter of a million? That's not realistic, that's greed. Pristine examples of all 3 of those cars can be had for 100K or under all day long.

I rest my case.

Ok that isn’t a argumentation to take serious, so you not even try to think about what real reasons could be behind because you are annoyed by PD?

Selling cars is announced to be added next month, so what is the purpose of still ranting about it?

Yes not all prices are realistic and the ones you mentioned are really too much, but I also can understand that they don’t give a rx-7 a 50,000$ price tag. But yeah the critic is fair, I think the game would need more cars to create a more realistic economy and I would welcome a auction house like in Forza Horizon.

But still, Kaz explained what is his approach to this game before release, that it should be a „car life simulator“ in his words. You can like it or not and as a long time fan it is understandable that you have the expectation for it to be like the ones before, but it is still a private work of art which end result you can enjoy or not, it doesn’t exist to be everyone.

This is just about this part of the game, other parts are just clearly underdeveloped or falsely advertised (like the ability to sell cars, but again this has been announced to be changed), and this isn’t just a small mistake.

Ignoring the fact that the word 'simulator' has been more defined in the time since the first GT (and arguably, it was already defined but considering 95% of this forum doesn't really care about 90's PC racing sims or any of Papyrus' work, it's a pointless narrowing of things):

The issue is that ultimately, Hagerty's partnership in the game does nothing. At the current stage we cannot sell cars, we can only buy. And vehicles that come from before 2001 or so cannot be bought as zero mile examples at all, only with a random variable of miles attached, unless they are apart of the Menu reward tree. If this was going to be 'real life' then we absolutrly should have the option to sell our vehicles for a price that we believe is commiserate to the value that Hagerty themselves set within the game. That's about the only place I can see the live and flexible pricing of Legend Vehicles (and really, UCD vehicles) to be ultimately useful.

But we don't know how long it is before we get this basic feature back, or what even the rates for vehicles that get sold is. And it doesn't exactly take away from the fact that so much of the game's worst problems in terms of its gameplay and feature set come from the mind of a guy who obviously spends too much time with car guys then he does anyone with any sort of actual finger on the pulse on what makes games fun. Because that is what GT is. Sure, it is a simulator (though on the simcade portion of the sliding scale of racing games) but it is also, by Kaz's own admission in how the game is designed, a game. If you are going to try and make the game more realistic, then let us sell our cars. Either in an auction house setting like Forza, or hell even a classified setting, I don't really care.

Like I answered the other guy, yes this is a reasonable critique (and It got wrongly advertised)but it is already announced that the feature of selling cars will come in April, so what does this whole conversation should lead to in your opinion? It has been Heard and will be implemented, and I think we ranted enough in the last 2 weeks.
I for myself ain’t happy with the state of the game right now either, but I decided to leave it as it is right now and pick up the controller when these updates have been released. This is sad for a newly released game but it is like it is right now.

And I think selling cars for the price tags you pay in the legendary dealership could be an option, but I think selling them trough an auction house like you said would be better, and can also be seen as realistic. I like the naturally dynamic that came to life in Forzas auction house.

 

[787B GT4]

Ok that isn’t a argumentation to take serious, so you not even try to think about what real reasons could be behind because you are annoyed by PD?

Selling cars is announced to be added next month, so what is the purpose of still ranting about it?

Yes not all prices are realistic and the ones you mentioned are really too much, but I also can understand that they don’t give a rx-7 a 50,000$ price tag. But yeah the critic is fair, I think the game would need more cars to create a more realistic economy and I would welcome a auction house like in Forza Horizon.

But still, Kaz explained what is his approach to this game before release, that it should be a „car life simulator“ in his words. You can like it or not and as a long time fan it is understandable that you have the expectation for it to be like the ones before, but it is still a private work of art which end result you can enjoy or not, it doesn’t exist to be everyone.

This is just about this part of the game, other parts are just clearly underdeveloped or falsely advertised (like the ability to sell cars, but again this has been announced to be changed), and this isn’t just a small mistake.

I'd be less angered about the prices of the cars if I wasn't sitting here for the past 2 1/2 hours doing the same boring rally race over and over again to get the Ferrari 288 GTO for 2.5 million. It doesn't matter if they want to make it "realistic" price wise because more events and events that actually pay out well like seasonal events should've been prioritized.

Not gouging people for 18.5 M to buy a McLaren F1 where the fastest way to make money would take you 18.5 hours of the same boring rally race to buy it. Or alternatively you can open your wallet and fork over $200 USD to not even bother with it. Had the game launched like GT6 with 250% logon bonuses and seasonal events this would be a complete non issue. Do you see my point? It's an extremely bad look that they prioritized all the greedy aspects of the game before all the aspects of the game that prevent the greed. That's ridiculous.

Just because they are going to add the ability to sell cars doesn't save them from criticism because it should've been in the game from day 1 since it was advertised. Either don't advertise it, advertise it with a disclaimer that it won't be in at launch or put it in the game day 1. They chose none of these options and decided to tell people they could and then not let them, hoping we wouldn't notice or care too much.

Don't get me wrong, I like the game but this is ridiculous and a vetetan dev like Polyphony Digital should know way better than this.

 

[ZEGOLFMAN]

Oh yeah G25 was a great wheel for the time. I have a G27 with a GIMX adapter, I can race on the new consoles and change the FFB to some degree.


My question to you is, If gamepads were the exact same as a wheel, then why do F1 cars in real life all use steering wheels and pedals to control the car? shouldn't the controllers be the same thing and result in less driver fatigue? Why don't real cars use simply gamepads instead of big steering wheels and pedals? Whats' the reasoning you have for that?

clearly you do not understand physics

 

[klondike]

higher online payouts are nice for people who are fast. for me it still will be big trouble to get in the first 10 people

Yeah. I really hope for higher online payouts, as well as better payouts for custom races.

But for Online mode a good way to implement it could be for anyone participating in a online race, and not quiting the race they should get a basic resonable payout that is on pair with the time spend in the race versus doing a campaing race.

Then add a small bonus for the placement in the race, and top it off with another bonus for a clean race.

 

[VinylRichie]

I agree with your opinion, but again: it is like it is right now and it is said to be improved, more better rewarded events and the ability to sell cars. So I thought now we overcome this point, what should result out of this now?
I don’t really get why you still play this game under this condition and still grind when you know it will be easier soon? Play something or do something entirely else, no one is forcing you to play it.

 

[Scaff]

but it is still a private work of art

It's really not, it's a commercial product design to bring in revenue and promote the Playstation system.

The finger-paintings my granddaughter has done are closer to private works of art than GT7 is.

clearly you do not understand physics

Control method =/= physics

 

[ZEGOLFMAN]

It's really not, it's a commercial product design to bring in revenue and promote the Playstation system.

The finger-paintings my granddaughter has done are closer to private works of art than GT7 is.



Control method =/= physics

How would they have been able to use a controller in the 1940's how would they be able to use a controller in the 1950's cars had rack and pinion for steering therefore a wireless controller could not and would not work.

 

[Scaff]

How would they have been able to use a controller in the 1940's how would they be able to use a controller in the 1950's cars had rack and pinion for steering therefore a wireless controller could not and would not work.

No idea, so it's a good job I didn't come close to saying anything like that!

 

[VinylRichie]

It's really not, it's a commercial product design to bring in revenue and promote the Playstation system.

The finger-paintings my granddaughter has done are closer to private works of art than GT7 is.



Control method =/= physics

And views like that are the problem. You understand nothing and actually, in my opinion, you don’t really deserve to call yourself a fan with this attitude.
Do you even know what the word „art“ means? And yes it still comes private people from a private company that is known for giving their studios a lot of creative freedom. It is not a governmental project and it didn’t originated with the thought of making the most revenue, it originated because of Kaz‘s passion.
Sorry guys like you are the reason why there was this debate about video games being Art lived on for so long.

 

[Samus]

and it didn’t originated with the thought of making the most revenue

They're a business. They aren't making works of art, they're making commercial products to sell.

 

[Scaff]

And views like that are the problem. You understand nothing and actually, in my opinion, you don’t really deserve to call yourself a fan with this attitude.

I suggest you re-read the AUP before you post like this again, ad-hominem attacks are not acceptable.

I'd also suggest you ask about my history with the series before making claims you can't support. Oh look, it's me and Kaz.

Do you even know what the word „art“ means? And yes it still comes private people from a private company that is known for giving their studios a lot of creative freedom. It is not a governmental project

Sony is a publicly traded company, and Kaz is an employee of that company, and it's a product sold to the public, that it's not a government entity doesn't matter at all.

and it didn’t originated with the thought of making the most revenue, it originated because of Kaz‘s passion.

It most certainly did originate with a need to make revenue, that's exactly why Kaz didn't get the green light for GT from the word go, but had to prove he could make a commercially viable product with Motor Toon GP first. The inclusion of MTX's in GT title also clearly illustrates that Sony expect it to be a commercially viable product (even if they could support it as a pure halo product if they wanted to).

Sorry guys like you are the reason why there was this debate about video games being Art lived on for so long.

Once again, don't assume you know about people, I'm 100% behind the idea that games can be art (Flower and Journey being two of the greatest examples of it in my opinion).

Nor does something being art preclude it from being commercially viable.