Mission 34 - Mercedes Mclaren SLR at Nurburgring

[6668tp]

This will be my final post to this thread. As someone who has been involved with software development for many, many years I just wanted to add in something that maybe the developers of the game might get their hands on and see as feedback that they may draw on.

We are dealing with a program. The developer tells it what to do. So, doing what I do best I ran a little test. I saved off five completed laps of Mission 34 to five different named save laps and replayed each one by one. On the replay I got into the 300SL and road with it through the first portion of the lap. When in the replay mode you don't get the 126 second countdown, however, you do get to hear the beeps on the last three seconds of the countdown. For each replay I paused to freeze the 300SL when I heard the first beep. On every replay the 300SL is in the exact position on the track going the exact same speed in the same gear and so on. So, from a software development approach, the mission could have been modified to put all five competitors out on the track and have a ten second count down making the lap no less challenging and much easier to use. This concept could also be applied to Mission 26 with it's 90 second countdown. For a good development team this could have been a minor adjustment to the mission.

For this reason I state the following to Sony Entertainment and Polyphony Digital:

"If I don't see something in writing upon the release of GT5 that states that these long tedious waits have been removed from the game, I will not spend my money on it!"

 

[NOSBLAST]

I just did the mission today, got the car and I feel really great!!!
I beat the 300SL by 5.837 seconds though I have the version of GT4 where there is 118 seconds before you start.
If I did the same on the other version would I have still won?

 

[6668tp]

I just did the mission today, got the car and I feel really great!!!
I beat the 300SL by 5.837 seconds though I have the version of GT4 where there is 118 seconds before you start.
If I did the same on the other version would I have still won?

I think if you look on this thread you will see entries stating there is an 8 second sifference between your version (PAL) and the other version(NTSC). You start 8 seconds earlier and I also think the 300 SL has a slower finish than the NTSC version.

 

[realisticperson]

j

 

[Mick777]

I just did the mission today, got the car and I feel really great!!!
I beat the 300SL by 5.837 seconds though I have the version of GT4 where there is 118 seconds before you start.
If I did the same on the other version would I have still won?

To run the time needed to win on NTSC you have to run a 9'05.

Holl01 has run an 8'56.710 (he's gotta have some serious patience to sit through that wait)

Still you can't make an exact comparison between NTSC and PAL because you pass the opponents at different places.

 

[inkieminstrel]

I seem to be having different problems than most people here. I know the track well. I can consistently post times in the low 7:10's in arcade mode with the default tires and driving aids on. Not brilliant, not enough to win, but enough to start making attempts.

When it comes to the actual mission car it's a completely different story. I frequently lose it in the 4th gear turn before Aremburg that you barely have to brake for. If I tap the curb, I'm pretty much on the grass. I also sometimes end up sideways around Kallenhard. These places are beyond easy for me in time trials no matter what set up I use, but in the mission they're real problems.

I've seen the suggestions to practice in arcade mode with various tires and ASM settings, but none of it seems to give me that rear-end-about-to-slip-from-under-me feeling. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to best copy the car in that respect? I'm sure I just need more practice with that car, but it's a pain to wait 2 minutes to get it just to lose it 1:30 in.

Thanks!

 

[Greycap]

Hello inkieminstrel!

I'm not completely sure about this as the difference may be between my ears too, but I think the physics model in Arcade mode isn't exactly the same as in GT mode. It feels easier, more like GT3 to me.

My suggestion would be to buy the car in GT mode, yes, it's dirt expensive, but still. This should give you the exact same handling characteristics as in the actual test. But, some people have said that the physics still aren't the same. According to them:

The game asks very much from the hardware even in free run and the good old PS2 is giving its best even with one car on the track. When there are more cars, the processor's workload gets higher but the power is limited so it begins "skipping" calculations. This may cause another difference in handling.

I don't know, they may be right. But anyway, the best bet is to do the practising in GT mode to make sure that the physics are as close to the test situation as possible.

Hope this helps.

 

[inkieminstrel]

I've practiced in both the arcade mode and gt mode, but I honestly can't tell much of a difference between the two.

In the actual mission, one tiny twitch of my thumb can send my car flying out from under me it seems whereas in both gt mode and arcade mode practice, I'd have trouble losing the rear of the car.

 

[Ermac26]

Hello inkieminstrel!

I'm not completely sure about this as the difference may be between my ears too, but I think the physics model in Arcade mode isn't exactly the same as in GT mode. It feels easier, more like GT3 to me.

My suggestion would be to buy the car in GT mode, yes, it's dirt expensive, but still. This should give you the exact same handling characteristics as in the actual test. But, some people have said that the physics still aren't the same. According to them:

The game asks very much from the hardware even in free run and the good old PS2 is giving its best even with one car on the track. When there are more cars, the processor's workload gets higher but the power is limited so it begins "skipping" calculations. This may cause another difference in handling.

I don't know, they may be right. But anyway, the best bet is to do the practising in GT mode to make sure that the physics are as close to the test situation as possible.

Hope this helps.

I totally agree with you 100%...buy the car in GT mode instead because the default car in GT handles almost the same as the mission test car...arcade mode is too easy in a way because the car is almost preset for the track you are racing with any given car...I also like someone elses suggesstion of using the RUF Yellow Bird in arcade mode and do the best you can on the 'Ring...or even use the RUF Yellow Bird in GT mode as well on the track ( I personally am NOT a fan of this car for the fact that it spins too easily... )

anyway back on topic, I'd recommend doing what Greycap suggests...best way of beating this mission...

maybe I should get my but in gear and start practicing with the Benz McLaren on the 'Ring for a while....

 

[HKS T51R]

i FINALLY beat this mission, what a hassle it was. now i have to do circuit d la sarthe 24 hours on both, and Formula GT, and im 100%

 

[The Cheef]

I've taken about a week long break from Mission 34 but am ready to try it again... On my last attempt last weekend, I was around 10 seconds off pace and I wen't off multiple times. Im just going to focus on being smooth and learning the track for the next couple of days. With any luck that'll do the trick! Im also playing with the NTSC version...

 

[Raptor13x]

Wow, this mission is absurd! I've been practicing for hours and hours and hours, and I just did, what I consider to be an unbelievably good lap, and I'm still 25 seconds off the lead car's pace. You're supposed to overtake the 5th place car around the karaussel? My lap was, as far as I can tell, virtually perfect up until that point and he wasn't even within visual range. I finally overtook him right before the final two corners.

How on earth is it concievably possible to win this?

 

[Mick777]

Wow, this mission is absurd! I've been practicing for hours and hours and hours, and I just did, what I consider to be an unbelievably good lap, and I'm still 25 seconds off the lead car's pace. You're supposed to overtake the 5th place car around the karaussel? My lap was, as far as I can tell, virtually perfect up until that point and he wasn't even within visual range. I finally overtook him right before the final two corners.

How on earth is it concievably possible to win this?

Many people have done it. Check out the Mission 34 videos at this site:

http://users.adelphia.net/~mickey4me/

They should help you to learn the track.

 

[MisterWeary]

Quite simply you need to practice the ring more...the only way you can get through this mission is to practice until you know the track back to front, every single bump in the road surface, and every place you should be overtaking. 25 seconds is an awful long way behind, one thing you could do that will cut time really quick is if you're driving auto, change to manual 👍 Otherwise if you have some bandwidth I'm sure there'll be some videos of people completing the mission around.

 

[Raptor13x]

Part of the problem is the car is totally incompatible with my usual driving style. I like to brake late, and trail brake into corners, and the SLR understeers wildly when you try to do that. I've spent much of the last few months driving the F1 car as well as the best car in the game, the Lotus Elan, which stops like the hand of God, so the brakes on the SLR seem pathetic by comparison.

And no, I'm not using the automatic. I don't know how anyone could possibly drive with that crap on.

The strange thing is, in the videos of people that won, it looks like they're going slow as hell. They even brake in several places where I take it flat out without a problem. I went off once or twice, but there's no way it costed me that much time. Argh!

 

[curbit]

this damn mission is impossible. i can't even get to 5th place yet. at least i'm getting to where i can see the cars when i finish! lol

 

[Mick777]

Part of the problem is the car is totally incompatible with my usual driving style. I like to brake late, and trail brake into corners, and the SLR understeers wildly when you try to do that. I've spent much of the last few months driving the F1 car as well as the best car in the game, the Lotus Elan, which stops like the hand of God, so the brakes on the SLR seem pathetic by comparison.

And no, I'm not using the automatic. I don't know how anyone could possibly drive with that crap on.

The strange thing is, in the videos of people that won, it looks like they're going slow as hell. They even brake in several places where I take it flat out without a problem. I went off once or twice, but there's no way it costed me that much time. Argh!

Both the car and Nurburgring won't tolerate trail braking much. You'll run faster at Nurb if you make the track flow smoothly. Powerjunkie's video from the site i posted before is one of the nicest examples. He has done it faster but in that video he made it look like a sunday drive.

When you see others braking for corners that you take flat-out there's really two possiblities. Either you are too slow on the way to the corner and so you don't need to brake to be at the right speed for the corner. Or braking for that corner is to set the car up better for the up coming corner(s) which results in taking the set of corners faster overall. Compare your speeds to the speeds you see on the videos.

 

[curbit]

this is probably a stupid question but on the replays the drivers are driving from the car view. is that how they're racing or just the replay? i used to race from that view but found it much better driving from inside the car

 

[Mick777]

I drive GT4 from the chase cam (ToCA 3 from the cockpit, hooray for a real cockpit view). PJ drive's from the bumper, or bonnet cam. Our videos are usually from the chase cam so that you can see the car because we usually make videos for comps on the US boards where people need to see if tyres went off the track.

 

[curbit]

thanks ... damn i've been non-stop on this mission. i have ntsc and i can't tell you how many times i've run the track. i just now got 7.750 off the pace car. it's my best time yet from 11 seconds off the pace car last night. geez i wonder if it's just a matter of time now. it was nice coming up behind the second car when i finished!!!

 

[wfooshee]

I went off once or twice, but there's no way it costed me that much time. Argh!

Incorrect. . . . If you went off, you lost time.

Now, about brakes: Late braking and trail braking is something guys want to do because they want to maintain speed for as long as possible. Sounds logical. Problem is, you have to slow down more when you brake too late, because you end up too fast for the turn. Then you lose your speed out of the turn, which means you are slower than you should be for the entire time you're on the gas, till the next brake application.

Check your replays. You'll find that your speed is higher at turn-in than the exit. This is wrong, and is why you're slower than you ought to be.

On a 9-minute run, if you lose a second here, a half second there, completely botch that turn, it doesn't take long. Do the math, 30 mistakes is a mistake about every 20 seconds. On most tracks a mistake every 20 seconds will get you lapped. However, there are about 170 opportunities for mistakes on this course. Think you're only making 30 in your runs? HA! Once you accept that, you'll realize how slow you really are, compared to how quick you ought to be. Anyway, back to late braking. Just don't. Exit speed is king. Every MPH you lose out of a turn is gone forever. You NEVER get it back.

You should learn the track in a different car. Run the DTM 190 license test until you can gold it time after time after time. If you can't, you don't know the track, and you'll never beat Mission 34.

I had to make a HUGE adjustment to my driving style for this mission. I like diving on the brakes and accelerating out, full throttle. Can't do it at this track in this car. Make yourself aware that the gas has an infinite number of positions between fully off and floored, and sometimes, one of those other positions is the correct one. Many of the longer turns that sweep through 90 degrees or more are part-throttle turns. Smooth is best.

That said, I haven't beaten the mission clean: I have two or three off-road shortcuts and two wall-rides in my 'successful' run.

Again I cannot over-emphasize that late braking dives are NOT the way to beat this mission, or generally the way to go really fast anywhere. brake in time to clip the apex smoothly, and carry more speed out of the turn than you carried in. You'll be MUCH faster.

My credentials for this lecture???? 100% and 80 golds, US NTSC version. Not to mention real-world autocrossing success. Of course, there's an asterisk on Mission 34 for the wall-riding.

 

[aguia]

Mission 34 was the best fo me
2 minutes waiting, drink a coffe, relax a little...go...vruuum...grass...try again
drink another coffe...next no grass....vrummm...3º corner....more grass....and go on.... and i saw one thing.... without grass i can't pass the mission
and you?
i make three times this one...the best time was 9.05.403 with grass.

 

[Raptor13x]

Incorrect. . . . If you went off, you lost time.

Now, about brakes: Late braking and trail braking is something guys want to do because they want to maintain speed for as long as possible. Sounds logical. Problem is, you have to slow down more when you brake too late, because you end up too fast for the turn. Then you lose your speed out of the turn, which means you are slower than you should be for the entire time you're on the gas, till the next brake application.

Check your replays. You'll find that your speed is higher at turn-in than the exit. This is wrong, and is why you're slower than you ought to be.

On a 9-minute run, if you lose a second here, a half second there, completely botch that turn, it doesn't take long. Do the math, 30 mistakes is a mistake about every 20 seconds. On most tracks a mistake every 20 seconds will get you lapped. However, there are about 170 opportunities for mistakes on this course. Think you're only making 30 in your runs? HA! Once you accept that, you'll realize how slow you really are, compared to how quick you ought to be. Anyway, back to late braking. Just don't. Exit speed is king. Every MPH you lose out of a turn is gone forever. You NEVER get it back.

You should learn the track in a different car. Run the DTM 190 license test until you can gold it time after time after time. If you can't, you don't know the track, and you'll never beat Mission 34.

I had to make a HUGE adjustment to my driving style for this mission. I like diving on the brakes and accelerating out, full throttle. Can't do it at this track in this car. Make yourself aware that the gas has an infinite number of positions between fully off and floored, and sometimes, one of those other positions is the correct one. Many of the longer turns that sweep through 90 degrees or more are part-throttle turns. Smooth is best.

That said, I haven't beaten the mission clean: I have two or three off-road shortcuts and two wall-rides in my 'successful' run.

Again I cannot over-emphasize that late braking dives are NOT the way to beat this mission, or generally the way to go really fast anywhere. brake in time to clip the apex smoothly, and carry more speed out of the turn than you carried in. You'll be MUCH faster.

My credentials for this lecture???? 100% and 80 golds, US NTSC version. Not to mention real-world autocrossing success. Of course, there's an asterisk on Mission 34 for the wall-riding.

Thanks for the advice. I *only* need to make up 22 seconds as of the last time I tried, and I'll try and put this to good use, lol. You get so used to late braking because it is THE way to pass other cars during a race. I suppose I'm not really that quick out there by myself, as judged by the fact that I currently have a grand total of zero gold licenses. heh.

 

[AdamW]

It's probably a good idea to try and at least gold the two 'Ring licenses before running this mission - I didn't really start trying it seriously yet, but just from my practice it's obviously harder than either license test (it seems you have to lap about the same time as in the S16 test; the car's a little more powerful, but the tyres are worse and there's overtaking to do...)

 

[Dr_Watson]

down to a 9'07.1
slight contact with the 600 and an off... hopefully next time I play around with this I can get a clean 9'05.

 

[AdamW]

well, this is a butt kick of a mission. spent all day on it and I'm still two seconds out. Sigh. I practiced in arcade mode with ASM+TCS on (as recommended earlier in this thread somewhere) for a while first, but I agree with later posters that the mission car isn't set up that way - if ASM is on, it must be set very low, and there seems to be something more than that...curbs just throw you right off in the test car, and if you even touch the grass with one wheel with any steering input, you may as well stop right there. but eh, I'll probably make it tomorrow. And I'm not using any short cuts either, fricking lame tactic.

 

[jcman]

I finally did it!
It wasn't a very clean lap, since I went out 2 or 3 times. No cuts, no wall riding, but no penalties, and a 9'15 on a PAL system.

I'm one of them!!!!!

 

[jcman]

I finally did it!
It wasn't a very clean lap, since I went out 2 or 3 times. No cuts, no wall riding, but no penalties, and a 9'15 on a PAL system.

I'm one of them!!!!!

In order to help I will put the partial diferences to the leader of this ride (some of them are not the best I achieved but it was enough to complete de mission)
1'42.783
1'34.181
1'26.674
1'14.859
1'02.558
0'51.416
0'37.617
0'30.141
0'24.665
0'13.576
0'05.143
-0'00.651

 

[jcman]

In order to help I will put the partial diferences to the leader of this ride (some of them are not the best I achieved but it was enough to complete de mission)
1'42.783
1'34.181
1'26.674
1'14.859
1'02.558
0'51.416
0'37.617
0'30.141
0'24.665
0'13.576
0'05.143
-0'00.651

By the way, I use a Logitech Driving Force Pro Wheel and a Playseat, and I can tell you it's a hell of a fun!

 

[AdamW]

heh....PAL.

it's annoying how nerves can affect you on this mission - I had my best run ever yesterday, taking fifth place right after the karussel, then somehow managed to stuff it into the grass on the flat-out left hander that follows, even though it's a very simple corner. sigh...