Mr Latte - Question?
- Thread starter RW65
- 335 comments
- 35,399 views
- 49
- Australia
Hi guys, late but as promised… the project “Unofficial Simvibe EFFECTS Guide” (USEG) has been completed & posted here for your perusal. All the values are recorded from a fresh install of SC4 during November 2015.
I have taken visual liberty to either round up or down the decimal point on some of the sixteen Simvibe EFFECTS range & also record the value ZERO when a certain value is close to this mark.
In regards to the “Default” settings recorded within these pages of the USEG, I found it occasionally impossible to recapture the exact same “Default” value once the slider had been moved… but I am positive this is nothing to be concerned about.
Also, it is important to know that the MINIMUM value recorded in the Simvibe software is when the slider is moved to the LEFT… for the MAXIMUM values the slider is moved to the RIGHT… please note that some MINIMUM values are GREATER than their respective MAXIMUM values.
The Simvibe Software on the “surface” renders a user friendly basic setup, but has additional FILTER settings to modify some of the EFFECTS further. I have not included any the parameters to these filters within this guide but have noted upon which EFFECTS they can be applied.
The user must understand that this is simply a BASIC printable hardcopy rendering of the Simvibe EFFECTS default values & their capable ranges, nothing more…although I do believe it to be a useful guide for those who have just recently purchased this software or plan to do so in the near future…
What advantages does the USEG offer the user?
Last but not least, thanks to Mr Berny Villers & the team at SimXperience for creating & publishing the Simvibe Software… this can be purchased directly from the SimXperience website.
http://simxperience.com/en-us/products/simvibe.aspx
Every care has been taken for accuracy… hoping this may be of value to you.
Cheers.
I have taken visual liberty to either round up or down the decimal point on some of the sixteen Simvibe EFFECTS range & also record the value ZERO when a certain value is close to this mark.
In regards to the “Default” settings recorded within these pages of the USEG, I found it occasionally impossible to recapture the exact same “Default” value once the slider had been moved… but I am positive this is nothing to be concerned about.
Also, it is important to know that the MINIMUM value recorded in the Simvibe software is when the slider is moved to the LEFT… for the MAXIMUM values the slider is moved to the RIGHT… please note that some MINIMUM values are GREATER than their respective MAXIMUM values.
The Simvibe Software on the “surface” renders a user friendly basic setup, but has additional FILTER settings to modify some of the EFFECTS further. I have not included any the parameters to these filters within this guide but have noted upon which EFFECTS they can be applied.
The user must understand that this is simply a BASIC printable hardcopy rendering of the Simvibe EFFECTS default values & their capable ranges, nothing more…although I do believe it to be a useful guide for those who have just recently purchased this software or plan to do so in the near future…
What advantages does the USEG offer the user?
- A list of all EFFECTS available & brief description of the EFFECTS themselves.
- What EFFECTS are defaults & what EFFECTS can be added to the Chassis or Extensions modes.
- The EFFECTS default values plus minimum & maximum slider range values.
- Printable hardcopy of Simvibe EFFECTS to view whilst away from the computer.
Last but not least, thanks to Mr Berny Villers & the team at SimXperience for creating & publishing the Simvibe Software… this can be purchased directly from the SimXperience website.
http://simxperience.com/en-us/products/simvibe.aspx
Every care has been taken for accuracy… hoping this may be of value to you.
Cheers.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
Well done on all the effort and patience you put into this friend, great work...
I think you need to consider changing the name of the thread now as it has progressed way beyond just questions addressed to myself or ramblings to each other. (edit 1st post). I hope this is a good help to people and it is the beginning of increasing the user interaction with the software.
I think you need to consider changing the name of the thread now as it has progressed way beyond just questions addressed to myself or ramblings to each other. (edit 1st post). I hope this is a good help to people and it is the beginning of increasing the user interaction with the software.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
I watched a recent YT video the other day of a pleasant user (menacegtr) describing his Simvibe cockpit. He was saying many of the effects for him felt the same in reference to "Vertical Surges" and bumps. He uses some Aura Pro and while these may be limiting the overall potential detailing in the low end many bumps will be mid range based. So it seems a common issue that from pure "feeling" it is hard to determine differences with various effects. I will go more into this soon why perhaps this is the case.
Really though I still have a personal curiosity about these and if via DR they can be better exploited:
It is obvious when several suspension based effects are used together operating in tandem that the strongest effect may be preventing the detailing of others. Additionally this data allows a user to help determine what is the best way to go about adding or mixing engine tactile. I do not see ANY single tactile unit performing all the tasks Simvibe can produce. Be it using all suspension based effects or a combination of some with engine effects, its just too much for a single unit to try and produce the detail in them all. That does not mean we should not seek for better does it?
This thread has often discussed getting the very best out of this software. I think we have highlighted the drawbacks of some tactile and their advantages. (The points scoring). Considered how to implement engine with the least detrimental detail of other effects. This seems to come down to preference of DR or engine via EM.
I still personally as in the beginning of this thread, desire to try and get the very maximum out of CM for the multi-dimensional or directional suspension immersion. I kinda had to question early on, if a single unit was good enough to specifically detail all such effects in tandem, with so many in tandem? I think back again to the "less is more" referred from user experience given here and see using multiple effects potentially limited by the operation of a single tactile unit.
Just throwing this out there as consideration, that I realise or understand possible limitations of adding engine into the CM. With DR sure this is handled rather well but I can see potential in a cockpit using DR for CM suspension bumps only and engine only via EM. Giving the combined benefits of DR for the best suspension depth and detailing but maintaining engine to an individual role. The challenge with that is how it all gets implemented into a cockpit and then if the limitations of the seat/pedals become a factor. Such would also need clever and thoughtful installation. Yes this is very much theory but it is relevant to determine in testing what the expected limitations are and what might be considered for the ultimate Simvibe experience.
Not sure if much of this is to your own interests still RW. Though hope in future that such experimenting/discussion in different hardware configurations or approaches is considered. Such is also vital to help determine what may or may not be beneficial or indeed worth the extra money required to implement.
I wonder how many people have REALLY tried to exploit the suspension effects and make good use of the small/big bump tones or usage of FILTERS to enhance them? It certainly seems an area this software has yet to be fully realised and from my own experience of using tactile with the many units I have tested I honestly see greater limitation in the tactile models used than the potential the software can produce.
Thank you again for your input and work so far.
Still perhaps lots to uncover, understand and learn how to best exploit the most from it all.
Really though I still have a personal curiosity about these and if via DR they can be better exploited:
- Vertical Surges
- Front & Rear Suspension Bump Surges * (Not available on EM)
- Front & Rear Suspension Bumps
- Front & Rear Suspension Textures
It is obvious when several suspension based effects are used together operating in tandem that the strongest effect may be preventing the detailing of others. Additionally this data allows a user to help determine what is the best way to go about adding or mixing engine tactile. I do not see ANY single tactile unit performing all the tasks Simvibe can produce. Be it using all suspension based effects or a combination of some with engine effects, its just too much for a single unit to try and produce the detail in them all. That does not mean we should not seek for better does it?
This thread has often discussed getting the very best out of this software. I think we have highlighted the drawbacks of some tactile and their advantages. (The points scoring). Considered how to implement engine with the least detrimental detail of other effects. This seems to come down to preference of DR or engine via EM.
I still personally as in the beginning of this thread, desire to try and get the very maximum out of CM for the multi-dimensional or directional suspension immersion. I kinda had to question early on, if a single unit was good enough to specifically detail all such effects in tandem, with so many in tandem? I think back again to the "less is more" referred from user experience given here and see using multiple effects potentially limited by the operation of a single tactile unit.
Just throwing this out there as consideration, that I realise or understand possible limitations of adding engine into the CM. With DR sure this is handled rather well but I can see potential in a cockpit using DR for CM suspension bumps only and engine only via EM. Giving the combined benefits of DR for the best suspension depth and detailing but maintaining engine to an individual role. The challenge with that is how it all gets implemented into a cockpit and then if the limitations of the seat/pedals become a factor. Such would also need clever and thoughtful installation. Yes this is very much theory but it is relevant to determine in testing what the expected limitations are and what might be considered for the ultimate Simvibe experience.
Not sure if much of this is to your own interests still RW. Though hope in future that such experimenting/discussion in different hardware configurations or approaches is considered. Such is also vital to help determine what may or may not be beneficial or indeed worth the extra money required to implement.
I wonder how many people have REALLY tried to exploit the suspension effects and make good use of the small/big bump tones or usage of FILTERS to enhance them? It certainly seems an area this software has yet to be fully realised and from my own experience of using tactile with the many units I have tested I honestly see greater limitation in the tactile models used than the potential the software can produce.
Thank you again for your input and work so far.
Still perhaps lots to uncover, understand and learn how to best exploit the most from it all.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
Got them all printed out....
I plan to go over looking at the defaults Simvibe uses from the PDF you have given @RW65
This will highlight the Hz Tones for each effect (the TONE BASED ones of course).
Assuming "Default Settings" are somewhat expected to be tuned. We can compare these to help determine which use similar or indeed how they differ. Of course their usage or actual testing would determine their rate/occurrence but this data you have gathered may be interesting to increase the understanding of their operation.
I would highlight in laymans terms that TONE BASED effects can be USER determined for the actual HZ they use. This may be a good idea to try and avoid effects using the same Hz or feeling the same. Additionally from testing it could be determined which are more active or should rate first-last in their importance or actual sensation or if to be used at all.
More inspection/consideration to follow over the weekend...
I plan to go over looking at the defaults Simvibe uses from the PDF you have given @RW65
This will highlight the Hz Tones for each effect (the TONE BASED ones of course).
Assuming "Default Settings" are somewhat expected to be tuned. We can compare these to help determine which use similar or indeed how they differ. Of course their usage or actual testing would determine their rate/occurrence but this data you have gathered may be interesting to increase the understanding of their operation.
I would highlight in laymans terms that TONE BASED effects can be USER determined for the actual HZ they use. This may be a good idea to try and avoid effects using the same Hz or feeling the same. Additionally from testing it could be determined which are more active or should rate first-last in their importance or actual sensation or if to be used at all.
More inspection/consideration to follow over the weekend...
Last edited:
- 49
- Australia
"I think you need to consider changing the name of the thread now as it has progressed way beyond just questions addressed to myself or ramblings to each other".
Nice ML, I like it.
Do you or any other readers here, even if you haven't yet posted, have ideas for an alternate new title for this thread?
Nice ML, I like it.
Do you or any other readers here, even if you haven't yet posted, have ideas for an alternate new title for this thread?
- 145
- Thessaloniki
Something clear to be googled easily like
Simvibe effects explained - guides - downloads
Simvibe effects explained - guides - downloads
- 49
- Australia
G’day ML,
Thanks again for some great posts… without your dedication, insights & commentary this thread would be dead in the water!
I hope that this new printable PDF attachment may of use to shed even more light upon the Simvibe EFFECTS parameters…
The Unoficial Simvibe EFFECTS Guide – A Closer Look At… The Road Effects (1 of 2)
...........................................................................................................................................................................
What I find confusing is this…
Vertical Surges (#15) as listed in the USEG are able to be allocated to either the Front, Rear or ALL four Corners of the virtual car & Simvibe has a dropdown menu to facilitate this… when I open the Simvibe (SC4) software program I find that the following EFFECTS (listed below) do not have this menu dropdown feature… although within the USEG “List of 16 Effects (page 17 is an exact rendering of the SC4 description of EFFECTS) it states that the EFFECTS I have listed below are LEFT & RIGHT for both the front & rear of the virtual car…
Are two of these three EFFECTS listed above acting in unison when an “EVENT” occurs or are they acting independently of each other… for example...
by focusing upon the FRONT of the virtual car only… the RHS front wheel activates an EVENT & responds accordingly or do both LHS & RHS respond to this EVENT in unison?
Furthermore, as one of the EFFECTS listed above is only available in CM, I assume that this EFFECT does respond independently at ALL four corners, just like how a real car responds in real life… & that the other two EFFECTS listed above work in unison together when either the LHS or the RHS triggers an EVENT?
Is there anyone with SC4 experience who can help me out here?
Cheers
Thanks again for some great posts… without your dedication, insights & commentary this thread would be dead in the water!
I hope that this new printable PDF attachment may of use to shed even more light upon the Simvibe EFFECTS parameters…
The Unoficial Simvibe EFFECTS Guide – A Closer Look At… The Road Effects (1 of 2)
...........................................................................................................................................................................
What I find confusing is this…
Vertical Surges (#15) as listed in the USEG are able to be allocated to either the Front, Rear or ALL four Corners of the virtual car & Simvibe has a dropdown menu to facilitate this… when I open the Simvibe (SC4) software program I find that the following EFFECTS (listed below) do not have this menu dropdown feature… although within the USEG “List of 16 Effects (page 17 is an exact rendering of the SC4 description of EFFECTS) it states that the EFFECTS I have listed below are LEFT & RIGHT for both the front & rear of the virtual car…
- Front / Rear Suspension Bump Surges (CM only)
- Front / Rear Suspension Bumps
- Front / Rear Suspension Texture
Are two of these three EFFECTS listed above acting in unison when an “EVENT” occurs or are they acting independently of each other… for example...
by focusing upon the FRONT of the virtual car only… the RHS front wheel activates an EVENT & responds accordingly or do both LHS & RHS respond to this EVENT in unison?
Furthermore, as one of the EFFECTS listed above is only available in CM, I assume that this EFFECT does respond independently at ALL four corners, just like how a real car responds in real life… & that the other two EFFECTS listed above work in unison together when either the LHS or the RHS triggers an EVENT?
Is there anyone with SC4 experience who can help me out here?
Cheers
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
I will highlight what you mean later today, however their is no mentioning of effects being mono based alternatives. The thread in the past has discussed how the software may "down mix" to produce a mono based output from the "Output Mixer" so that "multi-dimensional" based effects are still felt on each users configuration be it 1-7 tactile.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
I gotta say that I spent a good bit of time collecting data from your charts RW and the new one you added confirms things I had written down. Will share some of that in next post but I applaud this investigating.
Its ALL in the Motion?
One point if I may raise that is perhaps relevant but please to anyone correct me if my understanding is wrong.
Simvibe does not have speficic code written into games, developers do not have to add Simvibe support. The data Simvibe uses is that of motion. The Simvibe software cleverly makes usage of this and converts it for audio purposes for tactile. Titles for compatibility are added to Simvibe when each titles "data" has been organised for monitoring and adapted for to appropriate Simvibe features?
If this is correct then we can assume the various factors used for motion accuators to represent various values of motion are what are being utilised within Simvibe. Some of these will be forces or load based, suspension based, chassis based, road surface based etc. My own understanding here is limited but my assumption is that not all of course perhaps are relevent to tactile in Simvibe.
Yet in trying to understand how (suspension bumps/suspension bump surges/vertical surges/suspension texture/vertical texture and road textures) are all used for their intended purpose I believe part of the understanding comes from how such are utilised within motion actuators. In laymans terms Simvibe is replicating some of these motion attributes so to some extents determining what they are representing is already happening within motion rigs.
I believe their are reasons for the different types of bumps/surges merely beyond the purpose of a mono or multi tactile configuration but more investigation is required. We have to take into account some may be in reference to the chassis motion for front/rear regards pitch roll or whatever else, actual "motion cockpits" relate to. Some may be specific event based regards inclines/dips/on track/off track.
It may be that not all are effective within Simvibe or do end up feeing similar on the average tactile configuration but it also may be that some do certain things others do not. Therefore we should be seeking greater clarity on their usage and possible operational differences.
Its ALL in the Motion?
One point if I may raise that is perhaps relevant but please to anyone correct me if my understanding is wrong.
Simvibe does not have speficic code written into games, developers do not have to add Simvibe support. The data Simvibe uses is that of motion. The Simvibe software cleverly makes usage of this and converts it for audio purposes for tactile. Titles for compatibility are added to Simvibe when each titles "data" has been organised for monitoring and adapted for to appropriate Simvibe features?
If this is correct then we can assume the various factors used for motion accuators to represent various values of motion are what are being utilised within Simvibe. Some of these will be forces or load based, suspension based, chassis based, road surface based etc. My own understanding here is limited but my assumption is that not all of course perhaps are relevent to tactile in Simvibe.
Yet in trying to understand how (suspension bumps/suspension bump surges/vertical surges/suspension texture/vertical texture and road textures) are all used for their intended purpose I believe part of the understanding comes from how such are utilised within motion actuators. In laymans terms Simvibe is replicating some of these motion attributes so to some extents determining what they are representing is already happening within motion rigs.
I believe their are reasons for the different types of bumps/surges merely beyond the purpose of a mono or multi tactile configuration but more investigation is required. We have to take into account some may be in reference to the chassis motion for front/rear regards pitch roll or whatever else, actual "motion cockpits" relate to. Some may be specific event based regards inclines/dips/on track/off track.
It may be that not all are effective within Simvibe or do end up feeing similar on the average tactile configuration but it also may be that some do certain things others do not. Therefore we should be seeking greater clarity on their usage and possible operational differences.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
RW leaving your question to last, others may also comment on or give greater knowledge of to better answer than I can.
Well first again I congratulate RW on the charts.
I will share what I discovered and some covered in his latest chart.
Not all of this may be that important but it gives a general breakdown and highlights values.
Important point to bring up a while back I seen Berney Villers state on ISR forums that the STAGE 5 series is the basis for settings or profiles. The Mini LFE SE is the standard tactile unit used. I wonder if anyone ever noticed that the default settings do not go below the 35Hz.
Can we assume this is due to the issue the entry model Buttkickers have with below this range and common "over-driving" or known as the dreaded piston pang. To my understanding this irritating noise issue is part purpose to the foam being added for the "SE" versions. Something I never personally thought should ever of been listed as a "re-design" nor was any proper data ever released to show an increase in performance to the standard models. I do question if it was that easy to enhance the performance why do BK not do it with all their models anyways eh?
Really though we are talking about a bit of acoustic foam being added to suppress the pang of the piston or the unwanted noise it would make on their own cockpits. I am fine with that but have said it before and stand by my own thoughts that the "entry level BK units" have a performance limitation below the 35Hz and while perhaps not in all circumstances is more elevated with Simvibe having a very strong output signal and possible user intensity settings.
None of this is being divulged for purpose of pointing fingers, argument or criticising but only personal opinion. If you have such a tactile unit and experienced the issue, then I'm not disillusioned or if you don't agree, hey I am fine with that by all means.
Clearly however what I am addressing here having looked at all the default settings is that "Default Settings" while ideal for entry level BK users or similar performance units are not the best configuration possible for power users or those seeking the very best immersion, much greater is possible in low end performance depending on your tactile hardware capabilities and configurations. (Full Size LFE owners will be nodding their heads)
Default Tones In Order
Engine = User variable
Impacts = 35
Gear Change = 45
Road Bumps = 50
Vertical Surges Big Bump = 50
Suspension Bumps Big = 60
Suspension Bump Surges Big = 60
Vertical Surges Small Bump = 90
Suspension Bump Surges Small = 95
Suspension Bumps Small = 95
Missed Gear = 100
Default Tones By Type
Engine = User variable
Gear Change = 45
Missed Gear = 100
Impacts = 35
Road Bumps = 50
Vertical Surges Big Bump = 50
Vertical Surges Small Bump = 90
Suspension Bumps Big = 60
Suspension Bumps Small = 95
Suspension Bump Surges Big = 60
Suspension Bump Surges Small = 95
In a simple list this gives the user an idea of what their tactile are having to manage. Of course the various sensitivities will also likely determine which effects are more active and how engine effects will also have to be accounted for if on the same channels.
General Notes:
All default suspension varies from 50 - 95Hz
I find 50Hz rather surprising or generally a bit high in relation to how 50Hz actually feels but again this is far from the 35Hz level with what are very active/constant effects.
All bump/surges/vertical surges use the same min/max values of (Big 5-500Hz) and (Small 5-200Hz). While not criticising, these possible values do seem cable of much higher than people would actually use. Why into the several hundreds or Big bumps having higher possible values is kinda weird. These are not frequencies associated with low bass, indeed rather odd.
Sensitivity (General)
Gear Change = /
Gear Grind = /
Engine Vibration = /
Speed Based White Noise = /
Estimated Wheel Lockup = 25
Impacts = 81.43
Road Bumps = 74
Road Texture = 76
Vertical Surges = 92
Vertical Texture = 98.25
Suspension Texture Front = 99
Suspension Texture Rear = 76
Suspension Bumps Front = 99
Suspension Bumps Rear = 99
Suspension Bump Surges Front = 75
Suspension Bump Surges Rear = 75
General Notes
While engine is always going to be a constant effect.
Suspension based effects clearly have the fastest/sensitivity or control of operation. Their is potential a user could set these closer or below the 35Hz level and due to the amount of their activity might generate overheating. Hey it might not happen but I am only relating possibilities I think are relevant. By default strangely impacts and vertical textures have odd values compared to others. Attention should be focused on how suspension textures/bumps mostly match, possibly for good reason. The rear texture value is quite a lot lower however. "Vertical Surges" are higher than "Suspension Surges". It may be worth considering "Vertical Surges" relate more to the chassis than individual suspension and why they are listed separately.
More on this later...
Well first again I congratulate RW on the charts.
I will share what I discovered and some covered in his latest chart.
Not all of this may be that important but it gives a general breakdown and highlights values.
- Textures are the only effects that are NOT tone generated
- Only Textures use "Signal Conditioning"
- Effects that use "Dynamic Tone Sensitivity" have two tone values
- Effects that use "Dynamic Volume Intensity" have two tone values
- Susp Bumps & Susp Surges via default use the same tones for both big/small bumps
- They also share the same min/max possible values
- Surges via default have twice the "Dynamic Tone Sensitivity" value of Bumps 15 / 7.5
- General "Sensitivity" between these varies even though the default tones are the same
- Wheel Lockup is the only effect to use "False Clue Elimination"
- Speed Based White Noise (tone effect) has similar min/max values to textures
Important point to bring up a while back I seen Berney Villers state on ISR forums that the STAGE 5 series is the basis for settings or profiles. The Mini LFE SE is the standard tactile unit used. I wonder if anyone ever noticed that the default settings do not go below the 35Hz.
Can we assume this is due to the issue the entry model Buttkickers have with below this range and common "over-driving" or known as the dreaded piston pang. To my understanding this irritating noise issue is part purpose to the foam being added for the "SE" versions. Something I never personally thought should ever of been listed as a "re-design" nor was any proper data ever released to show an increase in performance to the standard models. I do question if it was that easy to enhance the performance why do BK not do it with all their models anyways eh?
Really though we are talking about a bit of acoustic foam being added to suppress the pang of the piston or the unwanted noise it would make on their own cockpits. I am fine with that but have said it before and stand by my own thoughts that the "entry level BK units" have a performance limitation below the 35Hz and while perhaps not in all circumstances is more elevated with Simvibe having a very strong output signal and possible user intensity settings.
None of this is being divulged for purpose of pointing fingers, argument or criticising but only personal opinion. If you have such a tactile unit and experienced the issue, then I'm not disillusioned or if you don't agree, hey I am fine with that by all means.
Clearly however what I am addressing here having looked at all the default settings is that "Default Settings" while ideal for entry level BK users or similar performance units are not the best configuration possible for power users or those seeking the very best immersion, much greater is possible in low end performance depending on your tactile hardware capabilities and configurations. (Full Size LFE owners will be nodding their heads)
Default Tones In Order
Engine = User variable
Impacts = 35
Gear Change = 45
Road Bumps = 50
Vertical Surges Big Bump = 50
Suspension Bumps Big = 60
Suspension Bump Surges Big = 60
Vertical Surges Small Bump = 90
Suspension Bump Surges Small = 95
Suspension Bumps Small = 95
Missed Gear = 100
Default Tones By Type
Engine = User variable
Gear Change = 45
Missed Gear = 100
Impacts = 35
Road Bumps = 50
Vertical Surges Big Bump = 50
Vertical Surges Small Bump = 90
Suspension Bumps Big = 60
Suspension Bumps Small = 95
Suspension Bump Surges Big = 60
Suspension Bump Surges Small = 95
In a simple list this gives the user an idea of what their tactile are having to manage. Of course the various sensitivities will also likely determine which effects are more active and how engine effects will also have to be accounted for if on the same channels.
General Notes:
All default suspension varies from 50 - 95Hz
I find 50Hz rather surprising or generally a bit high in relation to how 50Hz actually feels but again this is far from the 35Hz level with what are very active/constant effects.
All bump/surges/vertical surges use the same min/max values of (Big 5-500Hz) and (Small 5-200Hz). While not criticising, these possible values do seem cable of much higher than people would actually use. Why into the several hundreds or Big bumps having higher possible values is kinda weird. These are not frequencies associated with low bass, indeed rather odd.
Sensitivity (General)
Gear Change = /
Gear Grind = /
Engine Vibration = /
Speed Based White Noise = /
Estimated Wheel Lockup = 25
Impacts = 81.43
Road Bumps = 74
Road Texture = 76
Vertical Surges = 92
Vertical Texture = 98.25
Suspension Texture Front = 99
Suspension Texture Rear = 76
Suspension Bumps Front = 99
Suspension Bumps Rear = 99
Suspension Bump Surges Front = 75
Suspension Bump Surges Rear = 75
General Notes
While engine is always going to be a constant effect.
Suspension based effects clearly have the fastest/sensitivity or control of operation. Their is potential a user could set these closer or below the 35Hz level and due to the amount of their activity might generate overheating. Hey it might not happen but I am only relating possibilities I think are relevant. By default strangely impacts and vertical textures have odd values compared to others. Attention should be focused on how suspension textures/bumps mostly match, possibly for good reason. The rear texture value is quite a lot lower however. "Vertical Surges" are higher than "Suspension Surges". It may be worth considering "Vertical Surges" relate more to the chassis than individual suspension and why they are listed separately.
More on this later...
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
My own thoughts are that Simvibe will work with the windows audio setting to possibly downscale effects to the users applied configuration. So a user with CM (All4) will get full directional, a user with STEREO tactile can use (All4) but set windows to 2 Channel output only to get L/R stereo effects panning. A user with a single unit will get only mono.
Likewise users with multiple EM units these are all of course treated as MONO so have no connection with each other. They are after all location based for Seat/Pedals/Gear
Below I give some of that "theory" again but the situation is, two guys here in particular are asking a lot of questions regards Simvibe and its features. Yet presently can not test it, so we rely on others input from actual testing or experience. If you read this and don't bother commenting that is your choice but I do expect the "theories" RW65, myself or others may have will be things we would be testing ourselves at some point for greater understanding and getting the most out of this software and the hardware being used.
From the Simvibe Setup Guide
(Mentioned Directional Effects)
I noticed that no mention of "Suspension Bump Surges" is given here, not sure why. Although we know it is only available on CM so we should expect they are fully directional too. We only get detailed information on bumps & vertical surges and yes including textures but not actual detailing on "Suspension Bump Surges"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Impacts – Provides directional crash and collision feedback.
Front Suspensions Bumps – Provides directional (left / right) individual front suspension bumps as they would affect the chassis.
Rear Suspensions Bumps – Provides directional (left / right) individual rear suspension bumps as they would affect the chassis.
NOTE BELOW (Game Dependant)
Front Suspensions Texture – Provides directional (left / right) individual front suspension details, including higher frequencies as they would affect the chassis. This effect accurately portrays road surface details as depicted by the game developer. *
Rear Suspensions Texture – Provides directional (left / right) individual rear suspension details, including higher frequencies, as they would affect the chassis. This effect accurately portrays road surface details as depicted by the game developer. *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Textures
From Simvibe Setup Guide
Texture based effects are not based on frequency scaling and as a result are more responsive and more able to reproduce rapid detail and texture.
Scaling determines how sensitive the effect will be to a change in incoming data for the purpose of manipulating volume. The volume will be scaled up to the maximum value set on the Intensity slider.
Scaling is the key adjustment for this style of effect. Smoothing will simply smooth out rough edges or spikes. This is rarely required. Signal Conditioning applies a proprietary filter that can remove excessive noise without compromising critical detail. Although it is not a low pass filter, this is the best analogy for this type of conditioning.
The guide relates to these as "higher frequencies" and while it offers no tone control whatsoever. It refers to using internal "incoming data" partly for their creation. The user control of these seems to be for their speed/occurrence and intensity. The "Unofficial Guide" gives more light on these regards their usage on his Clark TST units.
All textures use the term Signal Conditioning
Default = 800
Min = 1000
Max = 1
Vertical Texture – Provides vertical road surface details.
This is all we get and it does by default have an odd value of 98.25
In general it seems to be a more minor effect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No information is given regards the Hz frequency that textures use.
I STILL am curious if someone ever tested only Textures within the "Output Mixer" altering perhaps their intensity to give a general idea of what "detail" they really do generate.
*What games offer the front&rear suspension texture. Possibly few so this should be considered to help also determine the importance/need of these texture effects.
From this data they do not seem to be of much impact regards interference to other effects the tactile will be generating. However with not knowing their typical Hz being used then some users may not even be feeling much from them. Additionally some other effects a user may have with higher intensity could be masking them. Take note high engine revs, yes some may people have engine effects separate on an EM only but are you then sure within the actual seat/pedals you are still not masking these textures by high revs in engine vibrations? I just think it is important to illustrate and to determine more in detail what these provide and how to best incorporate them into a cockpit. Their detail could be enjoyable but lost on many peoples cockpits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vertical Surges
From the Simvibe Setup Guide
Vertical Bumps – Provides vertical bumps as they would affect the chassis.
We can assume it refers to these bumps as the "Vertical Surges"?
Vertical Surges also have a reference to G-Forces regards their description.
Dynamic Tone Sensitivity or Dynamic Volume Intensity seems to be used in many suspension based effects or those that allow the generation of a min/max or low/high value. I would expect (correct if wrong) therefore control of the intensity but also the variation in occurrence of these effects in how a "Bump" is generated is determined by the user settings.
The games actual track/data will have various values for different bumps. Small/Medium/Large. Notice we set the tones for the lowest and highest values. Does this then also generate the working range that such effect will use. So as example below the default 50Hz - 90Hz range has 40hz within these settings of frequencies to determine Small/Mediam/Large based bumps from the incoming data? From this example biggest bumps could be down to 50Hz, medium based bumps @ 75Hz and small bumps upto 90Hz.
Take note I am only making assumptions. Not seen this properly explained regards how Small/Big operate or if their only is two values for bumps and Big/Small and all you get with no variation, only the HZ the user sets for each.
Vertical Surges:
Small Bump Tone
Default = 90
Min = 5
Max = 200
Large Bump Tone
Default = 50
Min = 5
Max = 500
The "Unofficial Guide" is a good reference for more descriptive detail on these in operation but is easily read over without possibly being properly considered. No doubts it already has been of a great help to some people even if it is not so much a detailed analysis of the features or data. Certainly appreciate it being available. Also its creator uses the TST tactile units, I cant quite remember if they were TST209 or TST239.
My head is fried but think this is plenty....
Likewise users with multiple EM units these are all of course treated as MONO so have no connection with each other. They are after all location based for Seat/Pedals/Gear
Below I give some of that "theory" again but the situation is, two guys here in particular are asking a lot of questions regards Simvibe and its features. Yet presently can not test it, so we rely on others input from actual testing or experience. If you read this and don't bother commenting that is your choice but I do expect the "theories" RW65, myself or others may have will be things we would be testing ourselves at some point for greater understanding and getting the most out of this software and the hardware being used.
From the Simvibe Setup Guide
(Mentioned Directional Effects)
I noticed that no mention of "Suspension Bump Surges" is given here, not sure why. Although we know it is only available on CM so we should expect they are fully directional too. We only get detailed information on bumps & vertical surges and yes including textures but not actual detailing on "Suspension Bump Surges"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Impacts – Provides directional crash and collision feedback.
Front Suspensions Bumps – Provides directional (left / right) individual front suspension bumps as they would affect the chassis.
Rear Suspensions Bumps – Provides directional (left / right) individual rear suspension bumps as they would affect the chassis.
NOTE BELOW (Game Dependant)
Front Suspensions Texture – Provides directional (left / right) individual front suspension details, including higher frequencies as they would affect the chassis. This effect accurately portrays road surface details as depicted by the game developer. *
Rear Suspensions Texture – Provides directional (left / right) individual rear suspension details, including higher frequencies, as they would affect the chassis. This effect accurately portrays road surface details as depicted by the game developer. *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Textures
From Simvibe Setup Guide
Texture based effects are not based on frequency scaling and as a result are more responsive and more able to reproduce rapid detail and texture.
Scaling determines how sensitive the effect will be to a change in incoming data for the purpose of manipulating volume. The volume will be scaled up to the maximum value set on the Intensity slider.
Scaling is the key adjustment for this style of effect. Smoothing will simply smooth out rough edges or spikes. This is rarely required. Signal Conditioning applies a proprietary filter that can remove excessive noise without compromising critical detail. Although it is not a low pass filter, this is the best analogy for this type of conditioning.
The guide relates to these as "higher frequencies" and while it offers no tone control whatsoever. It refers to using internal "incoming data" partly for their creation. The user control of these seems to be for their speed/occurrence and intensity. The "Unofficial Guide" gives more light on these regards their usage on his Clark TST units.
All textures use the term Signal Conditioning
Default = 800
Min = 1000
Max = 1
Vertical Texture – Provides vertical road surface details.
This is all we get and it does by default have an odd value of 98.25
In general it seems to be a more minor effect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No information is given regards the Hz frequency that textures use.
I STILL am curious if someone ever tested only Textures within the "Output Mixer" altering perhaps their intensity to give a general idea of what "detail" they really do generate.
*What games offer the front&rear suspension texture. Possibly few so this should be considered to help also determine the importance/need of these texture effects.
From this data they do not seem to be of much impact regards interference to other effects the tactile will be generating. However with not knowing their typical Hz being used then some users may not even be feeling much from them. Additionally some other effects a user may have with higher intensity could be masking them. Take note high engine revs, yes some may people have engine effects separate on an EM only but are you then sure within the actual seat/pedals you are still not masking these textures by high revs in engine vibrations? I just think it is important to illustrate and to determine more in detail what these provide and how to best incorporate them into a cockpit. Their detail could be enjoyable but lost on many peoples cockpits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vertical Surges
From the Simvibe Setup Guide
Vertical Bumps – Provides vertical bumps as they would affect the chassis.
We can assume it refers to these bumps as the "Vertical Surges"?
Vertical Surges also have a reference to G-Forces regards their description.
Dynamic Tone Sensitivity or Dynamic Volume Intensity seems to be used in many suspension based effects or those that allow the generation of a min/max or low/high value. I would expect (correct if wrong) therefore control of the intensity but also the variation in occurrence of these effects in how a "Bump" is generated is determined by the user settings.
The games actual track/data will have various values for different bumps. Small/Medium/Large. Notice we set the tones for the lowest and highest values. Does this then also generate the working range that such effect will use. So as example below the default 50Hz - 90Hz range has 40hz within these settings of frequencies to determine Small/Mediam/Large based bumps from the incoming data? From this example biggest bumps could be down to 50Hz, medium based bumps @ 75Hz and small bumps upto 90Hz.
Take note I am only making assumptions. Not seen this properly explained regards how Small/Big operate or if their only is two values for bumps and Big/Small and all you get with no variation, only the HZ the user sets for each.
Vertical Surges:
Small Bump Tone
Default = 90
Min = 5
Max = 200
Large Bump Tone
Default = 50
Min = 5
Max = 500
The "Unofficial Guide" is a good reference for more descriptive detail on these in operation but is easily read over without possibly being properly considered. No doubts it already has been of a great help to some people even if it is not so much a detailed analysis of the features or data. Certainly appreciate it being available. Also its creator uses the TST tactile units, I cant quite remember if they were TST209 or TST239.
My head is fried but think this is plenty....
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
Their is no official detailed information on "Suspension Bump Surges" The description given is the same as for standard "Suspension Bumps". As shown from your chart the values at default and their min/max are identical. The only difference I noticed was the sensitivities for their operation.
This is why the guy I referred to YT video saying they felt the same, (err they have the same values). In operation it may be hard to determine the differences or why we have both. It does not state that "Suspension Bump Surges" are game restricted.
It does however list this for "Front / Rear Suspension Textures" * (I-Racing Uses)
The event difference between the Bumps & Bump Surges may be on track/off track related by various games. I say again their is no reason for a repeat effect that is identical in operation so to me has individual purpose.
I would recommend you re-read the unofficial guide for the descriptions made mate, it will give added clarity now, well it has to me having digested this new information you have given/shared in the charts and the data collected from it.
It refers the below as "on track":
- Road Bumps
- Road Texture
- Vertical Surges
It refers to the below as "off track"*
- Front/Rear Suspension Bumps
- Front/Rear Suspension Textures
- Vertical Bumps
- Vertical Texture
*Predominantly work when off track
Stay positive however as it would be VERY easy to determine what each are doing with RTA monitoring. Highlighting exactly when they are active by testing each independently and comparing for on-track and off track tests. Such monitoring also will highlight the exact Hz generated for ALL Effects including Textures which are not known. Sure, yes Simvibes settings for Tones may determine their Min/Max Hz values but they do not illustrate in real time the Hz tones being generated within their set ranges nor their fluctuating activity regards the incoming game data. This will all become apparent with the proper monitoring and determination to discover such.
Eventually some people might take more notice in the benefit of RTA to gaining real time data that is useful and will answer our concerns. I'm not worried either way if nobody bothers, I could spend endless hours and plan to eventually just dithering with it discovering such in comparisons but heck that's just me. All in good time friend, all in good time.
From Northern Ireland - Australia this has been your report for the week.
Last edited:
- 49
- Australia
PREVIOUS POST ATTACHMENT ERROR
Yesterday I located an error on EFFECTS #15 – Vertical Surges… this should read “Dynamic TONE Sensitivity” & not “Dynamic VOLUME Intensity”… a new attachment to address this error has been posted (re: post #243) & the offending attachment has been removed, apologies for this typo.
...........................................................................................................................................................................
USEG – A Closer Look At… Other Effects (Page 2 of 2) now posted.
...........................................................................................................................................................................
Copies of two pages from the OFFICIAL Simvibe Manual (OSM) posted… BUMP Based Effects (BBE) & TEXTURE Based Effects (TBE).
...........................................................................................................................................................................
fatkrakr, thanks for your reply, appreciated… ML thanks for your posts & reply also, appreciated x 100, thank you Sir!
And for this...
It refers the below as "on track":
It refers to the below as "off track"*
Yes, of course… had a Homer Simpson moment there Latte!
Yesterday I located an error on EFFECTS #15 – Vertical Surges… this should read “Dynamic TONE Sensitivity” & not “Dynamic VOLUME Intensity”… a new attachment to address this error has been posted (re: post #243) & the offending attachment has been removed, apologies for this typo.
...........................................................................................................................................................................
USEG – A Closer Look At… Other Effects (Page 2 of 2) now posted.
...........................................................................................................................................................................
Copies of two pages from the OFFICIAL Simvibe Manual (OSM) posted… BUMP Based Effects (BBE) & TEXTURE Based Effects (TBE).
...........................................................................................................................................................................
fatkrakr, thanks for your reply, appreciated… ML thanks for your posts & reply also, appreciated x 100, thank you Sir!
And for this...
It refers the below as "on track":
- Road Bumps
- Road Texture
- Vertical Surges
It refers to the below as "off track"*
- Front/Rear Suspension Bumps
- Front/Rear Suspension Textures
- Vertical Bumps
- Vertical Texture
*Predominantly work when off track
Yes, of course… had a Homer Simpson moment there Latte!
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
Just posting this partly to my own comparisons/understanding and interest.
The default values certainly seem rather high Hz for really strong bumps.
* The method of how the engine scales with the user set values might differ, above is calculated. Majority of race speeds/tracks will be from mid gear-highest gear rpm. So I plan to ensure these are operating on my TST units and not the LFE. Once again RTA monitoring would answer if tone increase is gradual from the min-max values or not.
Unofficial Guide Comparison (Clark TST)
Suspension Bumps F/R 5-51Hz
Road Bumps 5-45Hz
Impacts 45-70Hz
Vertical Surges 5-54Hz
Engine 21-82Hz
This certainly shows better customisation of frequencies offering a great deal more depth for various bumps and will give an indication of what a tactile unit is dealing with for various effects.
Do you notice all (his) main bumps are to what I have stated in the past regards going beyond the 50Hz. The bass/depth sensation really starts to drop off. You will have read in the past often here that I normally only set my LFE to 45Hz max and let my TST 429 go beyond this frequency. It certainly bodes well for my ideas with DR which is nice to see including previously suggested that the engine mid-high revs would operate mainly freely from the other main constant effects and of course provide more detail through the TST units.
Seems that THIS was not far away from being accurate
Although in real world scenarios I doubt few will really have the hardware to properly feel true 5hz and not amplifier distortion. 20hz is damn low and a more realistic usable Tone.
The default values certainly seem rather high Hz for really strong bumps.
* The method of how the engine scales with the user set values might differ, above is calculated. Majority of race speeds/tracks will be from mid gear-highest gear rpm. So I plan to ensure these are operating on my TST units and not the LFE. Once again RTA monitoring would answer if tone increase is gradual from the min-max values or not.
Unofficial Guide Comparison (Clark TST)
Suspension Bumps F/R 5-51Hz
Road Bumps 5-45Hz
Impacts 45-70Hz
Vertical Surges 5-54Hz
Engine 21-82Hz
This certainly shows better customisation of frequencies offering a great deal more depth for various bumps and will give an indication of what a tactile unit is dealing with for various effects.
Do you notice all (his) main bumps are to what I have stated in the past regards going beyond the 50Hz. The bass/depth sensation really starts to drop off. You will have read in the past often here that I normally only set my LFE to 45Hz max and let my TST 429 go beyond this frequency. It certainly bodes well for my ideas with DR which is nice to see including previously suggested that the engine mid-high revs would operate mainly freely from the other main constant effects and of course provide more detail through the TST units.
Seems that THIS was not far away from being accurate
Although in real world scenarios I doubt few will really have the hardware to properly feel true 5hz and not amplifier distortion. 20hz is damn low and a more realistic usable Tone.
Last edited:
- 239
I agree: the default values are too high, I have turned them down too. One thing to know: if you turn down the tone, the effect is played at bit longer than if the tone is set higher. It's like playing a video in slow motion: it takes more time to play the whole video. A high tone impact effect sounds like 'bimp' and a very low tone impact effect sounds like 'booooommmm'. That's why I love to have vertical surges played at low frequencies: if you drive over large bumps ('mini hills') it sounds and feels like 'hoomhoomhoom' - great! Excuse my analogy in words 
.
.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
Thanks @insert coin, can you give any input on the Sml/Big Bump values?
I find it odd the Unofficial guide has different layers but they are almost opposites.
Is their a reason for this, does anyone know?
Example below if a single layer do Big surges operate @ 5-33Hz and Sml from 33Hz - 5Hz?
If creating a secondary layer do the ranges then react to the two values set for each Big/Sml?
So if adding the second layer do Big then operate from 5-54Hz and Small 5-33Hz?
Eg. Vertical Surges
Big 5Hz - Small 33Hz
Big 54Hz - Small 5Hz
Is this to give greater impression or scope to individual bumps?
I would REALY REALLY REALLY like clarification on this, ANYONE?
I find it odd the Unofficial guide has different layers but they are almost opposites.
Is their a reason for this, does anyone know?
Example below if a single layer do Big surges operate @ 5-33Hz and Sml from 33Hz - 5Hz?
If creating a secondary layer do the ranges then react to the two values set for each Big/Sml?
So if adding the second layer do Big then operate from 5-54Hz and Small 5-33Hz?
Eg. Vertical Surges
Big 5Hz - Small 33Hz
Big 54Hz - Small 5Hz
Is this to give greater impression or scope to individual bumps?
I would REALY REALLY REALLY like clarification on this, ANYONE?
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Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
No worries....
Researching into the issues the Official Guide mentions regards certain effects working in tandem.
The "less is more" attitude is understandable but also a technical limitation of a single unit that perhaps can not be eluded even with nicely matched settings. I also believe even with having engine or impacts transferred to EM like Henk has, free from the CM channels this still does not enable proper operation of certain suspension/chassis effects to be combined with strong intensities. Annoyingly their added detailing for the best immersion may be beneficial so I don't like the situation of this limitation.
While not all titles will use all effects. I do not see a point of simply "duplicate effects" being present in the software, instead see each effect having a set role/purpose. Even if they do operate similar to others in timing of their event, as they are possibly meant to compliment each other? Their has not been enough individual exploration perhaps into these occurrences or research on each conducted to get proper understanding of their operations that I have seen.
Previously we were concerned about engines and suspension conflicting but really the most difficult issue seems to be more the amount and operation of suspension/chassis based effects being optimised. The engine is easily offset to EM role as non directional. From my own interest in seeking the best immersion possible from tactile. These need to be determined if they have little or no importance to the potential immersion, before just concluding they just feel similar or work at a similar time or way. Then choose the effect of preference and excluding one or others. That's not to say good immersion is not possible of course by only running certain effects or limiting the numbers of them but it is not seeking or striving to push things further.
Getting beyond the single unit limitations has long been my point of discussion with DR. The data you provided @RW65 and those from the Unofficial Guide have helped highlight to me anyways the main loads on the tactile for various suspension/chassis effects. Their is a LOT going on with Simvibe and most of it happening at very fast rate of occurrence, hence the issue.
So my own intentions would be to focus on havig the vast majority of BIG bumps only on the LFE and SMALL bumps on the TST. Of course Simvibe does not allow this but as previously discussed it does not mean, it is not possible by utilising the inuke dsp filters to determine what Hz go where. We simply are halving the working range for all the main suspension/chassis effects to determine how these effects are split over two specifically suited units instead of one. No unit handles low end better than the LFE and personally I think TST can offer the best detail/speed. So the two combined generate one unit with relevant performance attributes to the issue at hand.
Personally I do want to research deeper and have full intention to go beyond the typical limitations. Yet I do not see any single tactile configuration with today's current tactile hardware. That is capable of fully operating with Simvibe at it's maximum possible potential.
I really think you need to consider this when determining your hardware configuration or purchases but the new data/info only highlights to me more the issue Henk and likely just about everyone with a single unit is using has come across, the tactile unit struggles to keep up or handle it all.
It would be good to actually have peoples input from their own user experiences on the topic but seems their are plenty of ears/eyes here but fewer tongues. This annoys me cause lack of input from actual users would very much be valued.
Researching into the issues the Official Guide mentions regards certain effects working in tandem.
The "less is more" attitude is understandable but also a technical limitation of a single unit that perhaps can not be eluded even with nicely matched settings. I also believe even with having engine or impacts transferred to EM like Henk has, free from the CM channels this still does not enable proper operation of certain suspension/chassis effects to be combined with strong intensities. Annoyingly their added detailing for the best immersion may be beneficial so I don't like the situation of this limitation.
While not all titles will use all effects. I do not see a point of simply "duplicate effects" being present in the software, instead see each effect having a set role/purpose. Even if they do operate similar to others in timing of their event, as they are possibly meant to compliment each other? Their has not been enough individual exploration perhaps into these occurrences or research on each conducted to get proper understanding of their operations that I have seen.
Previously we were concerned about engines and suspension conflicting but really the most difficult issue seems to be more the amount and operation of suspension/chassis based effects being optimised. The engine is easily offset to EM role as non directional. From my own interest in seeking the best immersion possible from tactile. These need to be determined if they have little or no importance to the potential immersion, before just concluding they just feel similar or work at a similar time or way. Then choose the effect of preference and excluding one or others. That's not to say good immersion is not possible of course by only running certain effects or limiting the numbers of them but it is not seeking or striving to push things further.
Getting beyond the single unit limitations has long been my point of discussion with DR. The data you provided @RW65 and those from the Unofficial Guide have helped highlight to me anyways the main loads on the tactile for various suspension/chassis effects. Their is a LOT going on with Simvibe and most of it happening at very fast rate of occurrence, hence the issue.
So my own intentions would be to focus on havig the vast majority of BIG bumps only on the LFE and SMALL bumps on the TST. Of course Simvibe does not allow this but as previously discussed it does not mean, it is not possible by utilising the inuke dsp filters to determine what Hz go where. We simply are halving the working range for all the main suspension/chassis effects to determine how these effects are split over two specifically suited units instead of one. No unit handles low end better than the LFE and personally I think TST can offer the best detail/speed. So the two combined generate one unit with relevant performance attributes to the issue at hand.
Personally I do want to research deeper and have full intention to go beyond the typical limitations. Yet I do not see any single tactile configuration with today's current tactile hardware. That is capable of fully operating with Simvibe at it's maximum possible potential.
I really think you need to consider this when determining your hardware configuration or purchases but the new data/info only highlights to me more the issue Henk and likely just about everyone with a single unit is using has come across, the tactile unit struggles to keep up or handle it all.
It would be good to actually have peoples input from their own user experiences on the topic but seems their are plenty of ears/eyes here but fewer tongues. This annoys me cause lack of input from actual users would very much be valued.
Last edited:
- 145
- Thessaloniki
Will do when it's time to do so, don't worry ML. Right now I'm still struggling to fix the amp. I am also collecting subs to experiment with diy Shakers since I feel that a good sub could have lots of hidden shaking potential for its cost. Lots of space, but big bump and a wide spectrum to work. Need time.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
Thanks, interested in your progress and hope you are well.
It is so frustrating to be in the situation that I am and want to continue this further but have to wait or rely on the kindness of others participating.
Subs work great by increasing the immersion I can assure you this. They could likely work really well with the various "bump/suspension" effects too with their ability to handle many layers of similar frequencies.
Not sure if it is any help but a problem I found from early testing of my old cockpit wooden base (built pre Simvibe) was that multiple subs within a contained wooden structure could tend to blend easily so you might lose or may not distinguish fully their independent vibrations from different channels that may have varying frequencies. It is easy enough from close proximity to hear each and determine its relevant position/channel enjoying the bass from the audio but the actual tactile vibrations could be trickier to maintain their independence.
Music or something with a mainly mono based low frequency like "Dolby LFE output" is a different scenario as is non directional to say trying to set up (ALL4) from Simvibe. To build a cockpit structure to use multiple subs for them to enhance directional bumps I think would work best to have each contained or enclosed individually. Like tactile, some form of isolation may be needed but it really depends on how it is applied. I also used acoustic foam and Fattmat internally to try and help performance. In the end all this was scrapped and the subs either sold or given away. Do hope sharing might help you with your own ideas, such helps inspire others just as peoples build threads always do.
Old build ideas built to accommodate at the time Dolby Digital audio:
My own current build, the 4 subs I feel nothing from the bass vibrations, but the bass pressure in the audio and what it adds is well worth it. The directional low bass audio gives the tactile an added sense of immersion or perception. So even something cheap like an Aura Pro but partnered with a sub could be excellent.
Look forward to your updates...
It is so frustrating to be in the situation that I am and want to continue this further but have to wait or rely on the kindness of others participating.
Subs work great by increasing the immersion I can assure you this. They could likely work really well with the various "bump/suspension" effects too with their ability to handle many layers of similar frequencies.
Not sure if it is any help but a problem I found from early testing of my old cockpit wooden base (built pre Simvibe) was that multiple subs within a contained wooden structure could tend to blend easily so you might lose or may not distinguish fully their independent vibrations from different channels that may have varying frequencies. It is easy enough from close proximity to hear each and determine its relevant position/channel enjoying the bass from the audio but the actual tactile vibrations could be trickier to maintain their independence.
Music or something with a mainly mono based low frequency like "Dolby LFE output" is a different scenario as is non directional to say trying to set up (ALL4) from Simvibe. To build a cockpit structure to use multiple subs for them to enhance directional bumps I think would work best to have each contained or enclosed individually. Like tactile, some form of isolation may be needed but it really depends on how it is applied. I also used acoustic foam and Fattmat internally to try and help performance. In the end all this was scrapped and the subs either sold or given away. Do hope sharing might help you with your own ideas, such helps inspire others just as peoples build threads always do.
Old build ideas built to accommodate at the time Dolby Digital audio:
My own current build, the 4 subs I feel nothing from the bass vibrations, but the bass pressure in the audio and what it adds is well worth it. The directional low bass audio gives the tactile an added sense of immersion or perception. So even something cheap like an Aura Pro but partnered with a sub could be excellent.
Look forward to your updates...
Last edited:
- 145
- Thessaloniki
I remember your early build very well, it was very inspiring.
But what I was taking about was diy bass shakers, you know the ugly ones you can find on YouTube with the epoxy etc. I started experimenting with tactile with a diy one made from an old 5.1 8" woofer. It worked really nice, then simvibe came along, and now it's set aside.
But seeing the limitations of the cheap transducers that I have bought (2x auras, 4 noname auralikes, 4 pucks) I thought that it could be worth experimenting with diy solutions that could provide wider spectrum, more power and see if I can cope with the size.
I already have a Z5500 10" driver, an 8" 200-5000hz without cone(don't know what I can achieve at third spectrum) , and willing to source different sized woofers to play a bit.
So as you can see it has nothing to do with audible effects, it will be just another type of transducer.
But what I was taking about was diy bass shakers, you know the ugly ones you can find on YouTube with the epoxy etc. I started experimenting with tactile with a diy one made from an old 5.1 8" woofer. It worked really nice, then simvibe came along, and now it's set aside.
But seeing the limitations of the cheap transducers that I have bought (2x auras, 4 noname auralikes, 4 pucks) I thought that it could be worth experimenting with diy solutions that could provide wider spectrum, more power and see if I can cope with the size.
I already have a Z5500 10" driver, an 8" 200-5000hz without cone(don't know what I can achieve at third spectrum) , and willing to source different sized woofers to play a bit.
So as you can see it has nothing to do with audible effects, it will be just another type of transducer.
- 145
- Thessaloniki
Well ,they seem quite durable to be honest. If the epoxy part succeeds then normally they should last longer than they would as speakers. I think the obvious disadvantage is their size.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,072
- N Ireland
It is more the possible strain on an amplifier that would concern me though. Like for instance if doing this puts increased load/strain on the amp? I never really researched that much into it.
- 145
- Thessaloniki
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