Mr Latte - Question?

[Mr Latte]

Will return with more in-depth reply but Im rather against the concept of using tactile to reflect as some form of motion/suspension. I have seen what some others have done but never tested such, did give it some thought in the past but even if only using LFE or multiple sets for suspension bumps/duties and nothing else I question/doubt that it can be an accurate portray for such and perhaps more of a gimmick.

When you think what is happening assuming the games "motion data" is being collected from the physics which Simvibe converts into sound-waves. Then using I assume its own (magic) likely consisting of DSP algorithms to generate suitable frequencies all modified depending on the users settings. To then want to use this conversion process and rely on the strength and output of various frequencies which of course move the pistion in a Kicker unit all in the desire to replicate suspension.

Nah not for me, I say flawed thinking, interesting but recommend to use motion for motion and tactile for tactile.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

I understand your point but, if motion were attainable - I wouldn't be considering these options. I just want to achieve as much as possible with the movements via LFE as is practical. I think I will be better satisfied knowing that I tried to push the tech beyond it's limits in order to settle on a practical solution. If it doesn't work as I hope, I'm not out much. Budget and space being very limited, I'm reaching for as much as this will provide. If all I get is a little better Vibe setup in the end - that's fine too.

I would like to try a GS-4 seat one day but, aside from that - I don't see my rig going much beyond what I have now. At any rate, I appreciate your input and your experience with tactile feedback; it's certainly interesting stuff.

 

[Mr Latte]

Its not really pushing the tech beyond its limits though, to me its more like using a screw driver as a drill.


I work better off images so if you upload some new ones of your current seat frame/structure I might be able to make suggestions. Certainly it would be possible to come up with something that incorporates dual LFE but its very much try and see, messing around with ideas. This will form a silly impression but is easy way to illustrate, imagine your seat is set on two speaker stands with their own individual wheels and individual top plates for the seat to get independant L/R tactile from. A full race-seat with such could be possible in a bucket style with side mounts or typical fit from underneath type. Not come across anything like it though before.

For the LFE performance you can easily boost the strength of individual Hz or create a Hz range of eg 18Hz-25Hz with +3db or more. Then also reduce db for individual Hz or ranges that may feel odd or you dislike with tried/tested/analysed effects. Lets assume you discover an effect that with current settings is utilising @ 39Hz-47Hz for example, you could go directly to these Hz and lower them with -5db or whatever. This is one of the major benefits with the inuke DSP and how I would tackle using Simvibe if I had a PC and testing my own build.

In theory duplicating Simvibe output and monitoring its Hz via spectrum analyser (RTA) on a PC or other hardware would allow the user to test all effects on each channel or down to individual effects operating via Simvibe Ouptut Mixer. This would enable much more detailed analysis and understanding of exactly what Simvibe is doing and not just the Hz being used but the power of them in real-time. The user then could apply specific changes to select Hz as mentioned via inuke DSP or a mix of this and making changes to the effects actual settings within Simvibe.

You can also try if you want to mess around with delay which will sustain an effect for longer than it lasts (added milliseconds) which could increase its impression/scale. A bit like how old dolby surround sound used delay for the rear channels to create more ambiance to the sound. Its the same principle but in tactile. Might be hit or miss but worth considering.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Ah, the delay feature is not something I thought of - thank you. I didn't realize it could have that effect on the vibrations but, it makes sense the way you explain it; certainly worth trying.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay no probs...
This is a typical Cobra Office Seat Mount
http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=5723

The issue with this is it being all one unit for L/R sides.
Something using independent L/R support sections would operate better.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

That's very much like my seat pedestal so not likely to get effective L/R separation. I'll try adjusting the delay to see if that works for a higher Hz range; if so, I can run BM again. I'll let you know how that works out.

 

[Mr Latte]

Look forward to how you get on Dean.
If your seat is like the Cobra frame then I think their still are things that will bring some success with underneath individual L/R metal plates. Also possible usage of side mounts for a seat. I see your situation of wanting stereo separation in a seat with a single upright/mount like what I describe below.

I've been helping a member over PM who has now successfully incorporated dual LFE, dual TST239 for "Dual Role" rear "Chassis Mode" and a further TST239 on the back of the seat for "Ext Mode". So far testing with various audio samples from "stereo" and "subwoofer" based tests prior to any Simvibe usage to check channel separation, the frequency intensities, modifying and adjusting the tactile signature via PEQ from the inukes DSP features.

Thankfully the installation points of placement and installation he has used seems to be a success so far. In doing this described "audio testing" and tuning prior to Simvibe is to determine the operation of each unit so that it operates with various frequencies and is tailored to his build and personal taste yet being capable of integrating both the LFE/TST all together so that the DR is effective and volumes are well balanced too.

He is learning how to be able to further use the inuke DSP and load different pre-sets from its memory that can have variations of settings in how the tactile will respond with their own unique settings. For instance a "wife friendly" low power usage setting. Additionally he is discovering how tactile can add greatly to music enjoyment so his build can also have inuke pre-sets for "Audio Tactile" and "Simvibe" usages available.

Going to try and convince or ask him to share on the thread here for others to see and perhaps get inspired from it. Really though I have to respect his wishes if he prefers to keep it private in PM.

I will say however, this has all been achieved on a seat based on something similar to that on a SimX Stage 4 with only a central pivot and rear motion brackets. So his 80/20 motion build will have the best tactile configuration I have ever seen on any motion cockpit thus far and blows away what Sim-Xperience offer with their little Mini SE units and brackets. He is currently testing the pedal region with an installation we hope will be successful for the front CM and we have still much to do to test possible solutions. Such will then validate which is the best course of action to take and again to his preference.

What kinda amazes me is the job he has gradually been achieving with simple instructions and discussions. Even more crazy is that this is the first experience of tactile he has ever had. So talk about jumping in at the deep end eh! He has put a lot of time and effort including faith and money into what he has seen and read in this thread so I am doing my best to help as I can.

I always enjoy seeing people getting to improve their build and discovering tactile, then pushing the boundaries. So it is exciting for me also on my side to see it progress and become something that will greatly enhance his enjoyment.

RW what is happening on your end?

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Hi Mr Latte, hey - that's really good stuff and I'd love to learn more about his setup; it sounds very interesting. We're fortunate to have you around to help.

I haven't had any time of late to experiment with the amp settings, only enough to contemplate how I might mount a Clark unit into the seat back by removing the fabric and welding mounts to the tube-frame. There may be other solutions but, I'll know more once I open the seat up after I acquire some new hog-rings.

 

[RW65]

G'day ML, still here dude... hope to get a short post organised soon!

Cheers

 

[Mr Latte]

G'day ML, still here dude... hope to get a short post organised soon!

Cheers

Yes please, we need updates and something to read about.

Hoping my new PM buddy will respond soon but he has expressed some things to me that I will let himself explain.
I think he can add a great deal of insight to this thread on the DR configuration and his awesome cockpit with high end components.

Have told him in private conversation I would prefer him to give his honest opinions, regards the effort it has taken, lots of hassle he has went to and some of the issues he has come across. I would rather have honest discussion and "lay everything on the table" on his own thoughts about this experience and how it is going.

It is fine if we have differing opinions or ideas guys on what the best potential "tactile configurations" and the way they may be used actually are but without input from folks from the actual testing of such. Then really few others that read this thread will get much useful information from it.

I have requested as part of the help I have given him (and he knows how much) it would mean a lot to me for him to share in this thread. If anything I have expressed to him he can help me, by doing some tests that I would like to do myself but I can't with my current situation. So effectively he seems willing to be a "test pilot"

He has just started Simvibe and I hope soon to be able to share with him and you guys here some of the things that is going down...

His configuration:
Front CM / Pedals = DUAL ROLE
L/R Mini LFE & L/R TST 239

Rear CM / Seat = DUAL ROLE
L/R LFE & L/R TST 239

EM / Back Of Seat
TST 239 (additional engine effects and gears)

 

[lucian84]

here is my monster

it's an upgrade of stage 4 from simexperience upgrade because mine is heavy duty and scn6 motors.

as Mr Latte sad in previous post I attached to it 9 transducers and I started whit simvibe. I tested yesterday a bit whit engine and impacts and it felt nice but still more to do as I'm new to transducers and simvibe hz frequently etc so lot to take in and read. I got more information from Mr Latte so Il test that hopefully tomorrow. Il try to update here more. but my English is not so good so pictures may help more

I would never do something like this if I didn't see Mr Latte build and all of his transducers so thanks to you for helping me in this quest whit ups and downs. hard work and many pms was written to come here.

my goal is simple when I get in the Sim and fire up iracing or whatever game I play I whant to feel the car the engine the bumps the curbs more and even more. obviously I do that whit my motion but I whant more so that's why I choose DR mode that Mr Latte advice me. still a lot more to do whit the software but IM confident that I will achieve my goal in the end. and I hope whit my sharing more will do the same. it's an awesome quest building spending money

Mr Latte i sad I will not show pics but what a he'll here comes pics.

OK time to sleep Im done for today.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thank you lucian84 for responding and nice to see you have considered adding some images.

Yes it has been a bit of a journey thus far (@ 25 Pages in PM) but soon things shall start showing their worth and you get the benefits. I can if you are willing perhaps post later (not now) some day soon more details about some of the things you had to tackle and issues regards discussions on trying to determine the optimum placements of the tactile.

I can perhaps later draw a tactile diagram for the layout.

 

[Mr Latte]

So lucian's build is of course still in some ways W.I.P . For now at least the purchases have been decided and made, the cabling, all the wiring and connectors, the duplicating of channels within XLR, channel tests confirmed, the tactile positioned, attached and installed. All this is a lot to give you credit on, seriously for a first time tactile build, English not even your native language it has been a very big step on your part my friend to try and grasp. So again my praise to you.

I can point out to folks that some things may still be temporary like the wood (under pedals) to be replaced with metal plates (similar to under seat) and the possible consideration of LFE to replace the Mini LFE at the front. This will be an interesting discovery in determining if full size LFE are indeed necessary ot if they bring as much advantage to the pedal sections to what they offer in the seat. I would highlight that lucian84 has already purchased dual inuke DSP 3000 so one is avail to replace the Mini LFE if desired in future. For those of you looking closely he still has an empty channel on one of the inuke DSP 1000 so potentially can go up to a 10 unit configuration if he wishes.

What I do hope is that we can do the tests we have discussed in PM, (starting with engine/gears) and highlight these here and openly express how it works or the issues/drawbacks that may be discovered. A lot has been said in my part about potential benefits DR may or may not bring and its actual true testing that will show such. More is to be covered soon on some of the things being considered to highlight how the engine can perhaps perform better with this configuration you have.

It would be nice if anyone is interested that wants to share some feedback or thoughts.
You guys might want to discuss what has worked well for you regards engine filters and settings for the engine in idle, acceleration and gear changes?

I have shared some things already with lucian84 that he hopes to test this weekend ...

Anyways more info to follow soon but so excited to get the feedback from lucian on how things progress

 

[insert coin]

here is my monster

it's an upgrade of stage 4 from simexperience upgrade because mine is heavy duty and scn6 motors.

as Mr Latte sad in previous post I attached to it 9 transducers and I started whit simvibe. I tested yesterday a bit whit engine and impacts and it felt nice but still more to do as I'm new to transducers and simvibe hz frequently etc so lot to take in and read. I got more information from Mr Latte so Il test that hopefully tomorrow. Il try to update here more. but my English is not so good so pictures may help more

I would never do something like this if I didn't see Mr Latte build and all of his transducers so thanks to you for helping me in this quest whit ups and downs. hard work and many pms was written to come here.

my goal is simple when I get in the Sim and fire up iracing or whatever game I play I whant to feel the car the engine the bumps the curbs more and even more. obviously I do that whit my motion but I whant more so that's why I choose DR mode that Mr Latte advice me. still a lot more to do whit the software but IM confident that I will achieve my goal in the end. and I hope whit my sharing more will do the same. it's an awesome quest building spending money

Mr Latte i sad I will not show pics but what a he'll here comes pics.

OK time to sleep Im done for today.

Very impressive monster, Lucian! A 'bit' above my budget I'm afraid ...

 

[RW65]

Sweet, really impressed lucian84... wishing you the best with your testing & further refinements... is that the Manu-Factory sequential shifter?

Cheers

 

[lucian84]

Very impressive monster, Lucian! A 'bit' above my budget I'm afraid ...

thanks

 

[lucian84]

Sweet, really impressed lucian84... wishing you the best with your testing & further refinements... is that the Manu-Factory sequential shifter?

Cheers

Yes it's the manu

thanks I hope Il be done soon and be happy and I can share every feeling

 

[Dean Ogurek]

I will try to add to the discussion regarding SimVibe; I have spent quite a bit of time tuning the effects for engine (mini-pucks in my case) and Road Bumps (LFE).

For Engine vibes, I prefer them to have the most punch at high rev's so I tune the output slider in SC4 for best effect while sitting in the car revving the engine. Then the low end is tuned to give a softer effect; with the pucks, the range is quite small (20-44 Hz max). In some cases, I may also limit the max RPM setting to keep the RPM's in an effective range.

For the Road bumps (my rig utilizing the seat-post spring/shock combination), I like a very low range in SC4 to drive the LFE (about 7-12 Hz) but, what makes this work really well is the use of a speed-sensitive filter in SC4. At slow speed, there will be almost no output and then it gradually increases with more speed.

The two ADX units at the front of my seat do some engine vibes, shift-bumps and road bump duties in alternating fashion i.e., one unit does Engine-vibes and shifts, the other does road-rumble effects. All of my setup is using EM at this time.

Something interesting about SC4 and how it works with various titles: in some games, Road Bumps work really well but, in others, they may not work at all. In GSC/AMS/RR for example, I use Vertical Surges to provide bumps to the LFE to good effect and that also has the Speed-filter available.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for sharing the info Dean....

1st quick question on earlier research I thought I read an issue or some bugs with "speed based filters". Maybe I am mistaken or any issues in past have been sorted Appreciate any input on this...

You mention having the "punch at the high revs", so are you setting only a limited rpm range with high rpm values to work within the 20-44Hz frequency range? If so this is one thing I expressed to lucian we try with the EM on the back of the seat to concentrate on it performing in a role to bolster the mid-high rpm.

I am keen to hear how things go and get Lucians feedback on things. My own initial thoughts (i may be wrong) were that the main issue for many if using say a larger TONE (Hz) range, that the strength in the depth of the tactile would reduce as the tone increases. So the lower rpm would be felt more and the upper rev ranges are felt less.

The other issue I was trying to get my head around is, at race speeds and with every higher gear change, due to the gear ratios that certainly the last couple of gears are likely to be always in the higher rev ranges. So often this would mean higher revs are lacking the bass within the tactile, certainly going over the mid 60s and beyond while lower revs would be using the lowest Hz if using a single Tone scale for the whole RPM range.

I have some things I want to try with lucian to learn some more about how the TONE generation works with the RPM range and if it is just linear in scale depending on the values used.

Have suggested to him we can try to achieve good idle depth in engine tick over and initial movement, detail in the increase of RPM but do so also with the rear seat EM unit producing low Hz tones for the high rpm. Additionally to bring in an engine block vibration type effect to highlight the last 100 or 200rpm in the rev range. Perhaps for top gear or potentially for all gears using if possible suitable or multiple filters.

More info on how things go to come soon and look forward to lucians own input as to what he will end up liking and enjoying most as really it has to please him. Anyone feel free to chime in if you want on ideas or past experience...

Dayton Puc
Curious have you tested your Pucks with only a 20Hz tone? I see they peak at 40Hz though.

TST 239
I believe lucian found for him the TST239 produced very little if anything below 40Hz (with audio tests). So we will need to re-look into this with Simvibe as it is meant to operate from 15Hz upwards. Also he had to address the TST over liveliness he discovered with music in the 60Hz ranges. Those may not be such an issue with Simvibe when on a set channel and for limited effects usage but curious to check again the under 40Hz now in Simvibe.

Music/Audio as a source for tactile certainly needs different calibrations than Simvibe that I hope to do with him soon.

 

[Mr Latte]

Sweet, really impressed lucian84... wishing you the best with your testing & further refinements... is that the Manu-Factory sequential shifter?

Cheers

Something Else
That steering wheel and rim, awesome
Kinda makes even the Accuforce seem a bit like a Logitech (sorry Henk)

Overall it is a pretty serious setup no doubts about it deserves the "Monster" name for sure....

 

[Dean Ogurek]

@Mr Latte, I'm not aware of any bugs with the speed-based filters, they seem to work fine with the road-bumps. I generally only use the tone settings for engine idle - whatever utilizes the transducers to best effect. I think it makes sense to sync the tones being used on different channels as well so as not to muddy the waters. Perhaps RPM adjustments could enhance performance of certain units to maximize range, I haven't tested that theory to see if there is any benefit. It should also be possible to sync idles speeds with the wheel in theory (AF).

I have let the LFE handle very low rev's in some cases as it seems to be how SC4 works when letting the software setup a profile, of course, it doesn't know it's an LFE and not a Mini-LFE. Getting a nice transition from the low range to high would take some time to tune but, might be interesting to try.

The Dayton-pucks drop off quickly near 40Hz, in some cases I have limited them to mid-to-high 30's. I now have some hog-rings so I can open up my seat back and plan a mounting solution that offers improved comfort and retains good performance. I still want to upgrade to a Clark unit at some point.

 

[HoiHman]

Something Else
That steering wheel and rim, awesome
Kinda makes even the Accuforce seem a bit like a Logitech (sorry Henk)

Overall it is a pretty serious setup no doubts about it deserves the "Monster" name for sure....

Yeah, @lucian84 has a real bad ass monster rig and a great looking steering wheel. 👍



I seriously considered buying this rim with full led displays for my accuforce:

But.. in a couple of months i'm expecting the Oculus Rift. If this turns out to be the next big thing, spending money on expensive rims with displays is (for me) a waste of money.

I very curious how tactile + GS4 will improve "the sense of presence" when driving with VR.

After 9 months of use, i'm more than convinced thought that the AccuForce was the right buy for me personally. The ability to tune your wheel and even use it like a transducer for the engine revs is awesome.

There's no transducer that is capable of producing engine vibrations as good as the AccuForce.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay Dean, no doubt lucian will likely want to try different options so thanks for the heads up on the speed based effects. He may of course be eager just to start enjoying his cockpit again and I doubt he wants to spend too long with testing.

Of course issues or limitations may present themselves, just excited that I can get to try some things with lucian and through his help and cockpit. My thoughts are if TONE based effects allow the user to set the working range for "when or how long they operate" and allows the user to also set the "lowest and highest" tones to be used. Assuming their is no limit on the number it should give a great potential of control for the user to experiment with.

I have little doubt he can find a very good engine based setting, with Simvibe settings and the usage of the inuke dsp he has a great deal of control of what is output, how it is utilised and where it goes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Been a while since I shared some thoughts so here is a bit of a breakdown on tests I have been longing to do or things to discover and hope to know get more feedback from lucian in understanding more and testing the theories.
This could get a bit long .....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Multidimensional Muddle?
My concern as has always been is with engine always in constant usage, getting a configuration that works and not to interfere with the multi-dimensional effects. I have yet to read of anyone saying the detection of ALL4 was working fantastic for them, that they felt every bump of every wheel in both seat and pedals from their cockpit using Simvibe. This is what lucian wants, he is driven by performance as seen in his components and for Simvibe to really highlight his motion experience not just add some tactile sensation to it.

Lattes Concerns
This cockpit while very impressive has not been designed and built specifically for tactile performance. It has been professionally built for motion.

My main issues are that with all cockpits the body contact in pedals is so small (heel/toes) as discussed previously in this thread lucian has to test the Mini LFE vs the LFE to determine if the LFE does indeed work in the pedals with added benefits to increasing the perception of directional effects.

We have discussed options and he has used dual frames/plates for the L/R operating from the seat runners his pedal section is mounted on. Unfortunately this is a complicated area as he also has the connection for the "Traction Loss". Currently his pedal section is not isolated so lots of the vibrations will go through the foot placement region but continue through the front of the main frame.

It may still work okay but a base/floor for the whole cockpit has been suggested to act as a huge isolator (something his wife might appreciate too) and on this I would recommend to lucian to consider to build an independent support frame for the pedal section. This way it will contain the tactile within the pedal section much better and avoid the noises or tactile leakage going through the whole front extrusion of this build. His seat on a pivot is not so much an issue and all the tactile to his seat is direct with only the underneath having L/R metal plates.

To Be Considered
Like RW has showed with his potential layouts which differ from my own perceptions and I wish he was close to a position to begin to offer his own findings. Having such input from alternative approach would of been ideal for comparisons and likely more useful than a "follow me" from the perspective of greater learning. My own build will not be progressing much for a while although it is not final, I would have no problems adapting it or starting over with a new approach. So for now as to what I can offer further to this thread, for now really I rely on lucians patience and desire to get the best from his cockpit and on his feedback. It is greatly appreciated as it helps me understand more myself.

Perhaps even DR will still have short comings and could benefit from an engine based LFE via EM. On paper this separates the lowest/strongest engine vibrations from those used for CM channels. This makes good sense to avoid the "mudding of waters" as Dean mentioned. The problem however is the end locations, a seat and small pedal area. What it comes down to is the body contact points and limitations these bring, only so much will be detected before it becomes a muddle and so much power/wattage overwhelms other weaker effects and how do we distinguish more clearly which is which?

That Ultimate Configuration?
While power is important to represent really good low end Hz. I believe the most enjoyment found in tactile cockpits will be those that offer the best detail. It is worth testing with the above but adding even more low end power with the strength of the LFE in particular how well does the brain detect similar frequencies from identical units operating for different purposes and still the issue that the engine is always constant? Do we once again discover the constant engine effects will destroy the directionality or detection and illusion of multidimensional effects with using a strong mono engine tone?

The Questions
Regards CM do we have to sacrifice either engine or directional effects detail for a better performance in only one?
How good really is ALL4 multidimensional effects perceived even with the best tactile used and no engine operating?
Could our bodies/brain highlight effects better with only stereo directionality in the seat and engine in pedals?

Still lots to discover...

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah, @lucian84 has a real bad ass monster rig and a great looking steering wheel. 👍

There's no transducer that is capable of producing engine vibrations as good as the AccuForce.

Appreciate if you care to describe more what it offers or does and the settings you use?
What makes it the best engine vibrations possible?

Or is that Berney PR talk?

However lucian told me he does not need tactile vibrations in his wheel but does want it to perform really well in the seat and pedals.

If you can add anything I am sure he or others will appreciate...

 

[lucian84]

Yeah, @lucian84 has a real bad ass monster rig and a great looking steering wheel. 👍



I seriously considered buying this rim with full led displays for my accuforce:

But.. in a couple of months i'm expecting the Oculus Rift. If this turns out to be the next big thing, spending money on expensive rims with displays is (for me) a waste of money.

I very curious how tactile + GS4 will improve "the sense of presence" when driving with VR.

After 9 months of use, i'm more than convinced thought that the AccuForce was the right buy for me personally. The ability to tune your wheel and even use it like a transducer for the engine revs is awesome.

There's no transducer that is capable of producing engine vibrations as good as the AccuForce.

i get my oculus in april the wait is killing me

I was close to buy that rim but a fried suggested Carsten and I went whit that instead and I'm happy whit it

 

[Mr Latte]

Your nice wife will be killing you soon never mind the wait for Oculus
(Haaa Haaaa)

 

[lucian84]

Your nice wife will be killing you soon never mind the wait for Oculus
(Haaa Haaaa)

hahaha true

 

[Dean Ogurek]

@HoiHman: I agree with you 100% regarding the AccuForce and also about VR and not needing a high-end wheel display although, they certainly look fantastic.

As for engine vibes at the wheel, I think the AF and SC4 do a great job in that dept. but, there are cases where I prefer greater detail from the road and grip so I run with little or no engine vibes in the wheel. For titles that lack FFB detail in the wheel, engine vibes serve me well to fill the gaps and add some life to what may be rather "Dull" FFB.

@Mr Latte: I'm also very interested in how the transducers locations and mounting designs affect and work with Chassis mode although, my current implementation is much simpler using EM. I do get some good residual vibration to the pedal via the 80/20 frame.

I've not experienced stereo separation via CM at all thus far but, you raise some excellent points regarding it's effectiveness in combination with EM and/or engine vibes. There certainly is a point where the tactile can become totally overwhelming and I suspect the best approach may be to tune things for a full-range experience with both very subtle and more dramatic tactile events with just enough separation between.

Again, utilizing different transducers to perform appropriate duties within a defined range seems very important but, also very complex given all of the variables involved. Interesting study indeed.

 

[Mr Latte]

I think the best approach Dean like mentioned in this thread previously and still perhaps a goal for RW and myself is to take things further in the understanding of Simvibes operation.

With conclusive testing of individual effects done on their own, these fine tuned so they have good performing settings used in Simvibe to determine when and how they operate. I have expressed this one day goal with lucian and the possible usage of monitoring Simvibe via an RTA or the digital mixer option to have visual representation of all effects output from multiple channels at once.

Truth is all this time since Simvibes release and the community is none the wiser to most of its operation. Well certainly research of other forums, discussions and questions raised here often go unanswered, none of this highlights much. Once information on each effect type is gathered, with more known about what effects are fully multi-dimensional and those that are not. Then it would be possible to evaluate which effects work perhaps in a similar manner regards the different bumps,surfaces,suspension the frequencies they use and what combination of effects may be best to work together. Of course many games do not offer all anyways but I do desire to learn more in-depth about them.

As HoiHman has stated in the past not all effects are necessary "less is more" and while I understand why he says that. I have to also express that more is possible with dual units than a single unit on any channel. I strongly believe the synchronization of two specific units suited to their own frequencies and with their own installation placements is better than multiple units working individually and installed in close proximity.

The simple reason being LFE and TST have their own unique benefits/disadvantages and both in detail and impact. As I shared here several times. Having two units work as one also gives better control of the effects dispersion as your also not relying on a single installation point neither. So potentially the region with body contact you are seeking to utilise can also be better optimised.

With the inuke DSP you can address what Hz goes to which device rather than Simvibe sending all Hz within the used effects to single units. Additionally lucian can now make detailed changes to the specific Hz for LFE/TST with +/- db separately to enhance only those Hz he wants to increase/decrease rather than just adjust the intensity of all Hz used for an effect in Simvibe. So this approach offers various advantages and tighter control of Simvibes output but it is up to the user to apply such or just output Simvibe as normal. Lucian can even run in single unit mode, both units as identical or the Dual Role mode using individual set Hz. So he will also have lots of variation to how his installed tactile can be used.

Yet even with all this added control and still my thoughts are that getting the very best out of Simvibe will still be a challenge. I personally believe Simvibe has yet to be fully realised and optimised to what is really possible with it.

What Berney offers in his own SimX cockpits or a users common entry or mid priced tactile for me does not come close to highlighting the software's true potential or tactile performance possible for a very rich immersion.

 

[HoiHman]

Appreciate if you care to describe more what it offers or does and the settings you use?
What makes it the best engine vibrations possible?

Or is that Berney PR talk?

However lucian told me he does not need tactile vibrations in his wheel but does want it to perform really well in the seat and pedals.

If you can add anything I am sure he or others will appreciate...

I have tried a couple of times to add transducers to my wheeldeck for engine revs in the past and the result was always unsatisfactory. The AF simply does a better job, has a broader freqency range and (in general) does it more silently

Like Dean i use the engine rev to enhance the FFB coming from the game, this is a personal preference.



The wait for the oculus is killing me too.