Mr Latte - Question?

  • Thread starter RW65
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Sorry Henk I wasnt having a go at the wheel. I was referring to comparing engine tactile you were mentioning in the wheel to what could be possible in the main cockpit/seat regards options/settings and achieving the "best engine tactile". It wasn't really about using tactile in the wheel deck.
 
I will try to add to the discussion regarding SimVibe; I have spent quite a bit of time tuning the effects for engine (mini-pucks in my case) and Road Bumps (LFE).

For Engine vibes, I prefer them to have the most punch at high rev's so I tune the output slider in SC4 for best effect while sitting in the car revving the engine. Then the low end is tuned to give a softer effect; with the pucks, the range is quite small (20-44 Hz max). In some cases, I may also limit the max RPM setting to keep the RPM's in an effective range.

Wondering if you or others can read and offer advice or thoughts.


Gremlins & Frustration
So last night tried to help lucian with little success having a go with engine vibes.
Part of the problem is I have the software but no games installed on this laptop nor steam and only the on-board audio. So I cant even finalise Simvibe setup on my end to let me access the menus. This makes things more awkward to say the least and while I have an understanding of frequencies and what I believe will make a good usage of them in Simvibe.

Using the actual software is something I only done briefly over 2 years ago for some testing. Most of it yes does not give enough detail in what certain things do, this we already knew but will share the issue that arose last night. We seem a bit confused why it happened and needing to learn how to reduce the db intensity (volume) within a set rpm range and the best way to place the engine filters for what we what to do regards engine.

I alluded to lucian beforehand I hadnt much personal usage of Simvibe features myself but if we have to go through it step by step we will. Much of it is part of the learning process of the software and trial and error like many before us have also incurred. Place a setting, try it, then make a change, try it, feel for some difference and keep repeating. All very tedious but let me guess you've been their yourself.

Hopefully One Day
I would love to have access to being able to go through it all and monitor everything in the way I would want my own cockpit to be. Including RTA visual monitoring of all channels to whats happening regards their output. This may be the only way to really start to get much greater understanding of many of the sliders and what the changes are doing rather than feel it in the seat of the pants type trial and error.

Know you RW shared interest in this too that really the community in general needs or deserves a proper in-depth guide on this software including usage of filters/modifiers/layers and all the inner workings of various sliders and options. Well it does not look like an official guide is coming nor has the user friendliness of the software been improved much to my own knowledge since it released. On one hand it is brilliant software but with rather terrible support or information available for many of its functions in simple laymans terms.
I can only assume much of it is likely kept this way so little of its actual processing is better realised to protect in some way what it is doing.

RW we need to talk some time soon on some of the stuff your shared before...


Rundown
So here is description of issue lucian had.

The car auto detected for 6400 rpm
We changed the value of Hz range from 10 - 90 Hz

He hit a problem with revs at 4000rpm with them becoming much stronger like a spike in intensity. After spending some time doing checks to discover it was not the tactile units, it was not anything in inuke dsp and it was not a volume related problem it took us back to Simvibe.

Changing the Hz values by increasing the upper range moved when it occurred but it still kept happening. Now it was happening at about 3000rpm. So it seemed it was an issue not related to the actual rpm value but a specific Hz frequency happening in the low range causing it. My own thoughts are it is in how the Hz scale and volume is being generated by Simvibe that the volume intensity needs better controlled via possibly the thresholds or rpm sensitivity volume, or other possible method?

We could reduce it easily in the inuke PEQ by removing db power so could detect the Hz it is effecting but this is not the proper solution. It is knowing how to eliminate it in Simvibe using the rpm values and options available.

Next session we will start again, we spent more time trying to trace this issue than in Simvibe itself but we need to grasp more on how to control the generated effect with the rpm ranges used and things listed below should be utilised.

Its only complicated when you don't know how :)
I told lucian the hardest it can be is we have to learn...

This is what I had in my head would be a good config to try but not necessarily final:
Approx values but what is the best way to implement these?

ALL4
Idle 0rpm - 99 rpm? via scale 10Hz Min (perhaps 5Hz) 20Hz Max (idle to inertia feeling)
Gears 100 rpm - 6400 rpm via scale 10hz Min - 90Hz Max (strong low end with decreasing tactile in higher end)
Rev Limit 6200 - 6400 rpm via scale 20Hz Min - 25Hz Max (event tactile occurrence to highlight rev limit)

EM Engine (back of seat)
Intention of this is to trial keeping the high revs active in low Hz felt tactile while allowing the ALL4 low Hz range to be free for bumps/suspension etc.

Gears 5400 rpm - 6400 rpm via scale Min 20Hz - 40Hz Max (low hz boost to engine at high revs / equates to 20Hz over 1000 rpm so 5hz increase every 200 rpm)

More needs to be understood by lucian and myself on:
Layers

Filters
Max Value Threshold
Min Value Threshold
Volume Smoothing

Modifiers
RPM Sensitive Volume
Speed Sensitive Volume

fun fun fun.....
 
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@Mr Latte: I'm using as very small amp to drive the Dayton Pucks and I haven't noticed any significant spikes in engine vibes; perhaps that is related to the low power being used and is not very noticeable.

The lack of a detailed user guide for SimVibe is unfortunate. I get the impression that very few users dive deep into it's advanced features and become "Power User's" in tactile. We see the same thing with the AccuForce settings and many people saying that SC4 is just a gimmick. I don't see it that way but, I can certainly see how people that try to use it can quickly become disillusioned due to it's complexity and advanced features.

In the case of the AccuForce settings, we have a User Guide by MockRacer; it serves as a simplified way to tune FFB in SimCommander by turning many of the FFB settings off and focusing mainly on the ones that have the most impact on the wheels FFB. This reduces the complexity greatly and gets us where we want to be much quicker.

In regard to the base settings in SimVibe, using the Output Tuning Wizard can be useful in some cases but, I think it assumes that the mini-LFE is generally the unit being used. I think the SimX settings are generally quite conservative in some ways but, they also allow for much higher values that offer much greater range in both settings and hardware configurations.

SimVibe is powerful software but, I have often felt that SimX likes their effects pretty subtle and conservative and uses a simple approach - at least from my reading. Having a User Guide like the one MockRacer created would be very helpful as it offers a simple approach but, also explains what each setting does and how it affects other settings for more advanced users.
 
Thank you Dean for your time and input.

The spike issue was odd, I have to ask and rely on the input he gives me on whats happening. With him new to tactile in general it just will take patience and learning. I will have to wait to when lucian contacts me again to start over and do things in a constructive approach.

He may want to rush to find a quick solution, with the impatience this causes to just start enjoying it.
Few people will have profiles to match his hardware and yes the "Wizard" potentially could act like an EQ to suit the characteristics of the Mini LFE.

We will stay positive and see how progress goes but we need to start and grasp some of the features and let him get some fun out of it all. Save it to a profile and then maybe hopefully work on a testing profile to delve deeper and gradually improve.

I agree much more can be achieved, Mini LFE that SimX use and how they have them installed isn't close to giving a user the best tactile experience. While I cannot speak for lucian my own determination wont be faded. I am a tactile hobbyist and wouldn't settle for "okay" in this type of "immersion" or "entertainment". I really would enjoy delving deeper if my own situation one day enables such.

The vision I have and the potential I see with using the best tactile hardware could produce something much greater than most are currently experiencing. No doubt the software itself and the uncertainty regards much of it, they too have extra performance or immersion eluding them from their own configurations.
 
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@Mr Latte
You're welcome to do testing in the Shed mate

As typing the above the thought crossed my mind but I wouldn't of imposed my friend. This before even seeing your reply while doing the above.

Although bang you show up saying such is pretty awesome.

"Green Army"
 
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Howdy, sorry for dragging my feet on this Simvibe project I keep promising... hopefully I will find time to finally finish this project & post at the weekend.

Heads up, this project (as you will see) will not provide any benefit to those that have Simvibe already setup to some degree... it is more for those that have recently purchased the software or plan to purchase in the future.

Probably stated this before but will repeat again, this project is basically a "printable hardcopy" of Simvibe effects, their ranges & characteristics. The real benefit will be for those who want to know what Simvibe has to offer within its basic parameters' whilst one is not sitting at the computer, scrolling through continuous pages of effects "data" & attempting to remember what has gone before.

With a printable "hardcopy" in hand, "starting points / testing ideas & refinement notes" can easily be written down within these pages at anytime & anywhere when one's inspiration strikes.

ML, Lucian84... probably nothing as this may not be an issue at all, but possibly worth saying anyhow? Perhaps test each & every Hz (via MP3 files) through each TU independently for locating any "dead zones" within the chassis rig itself along with it's located TU? Once the "Hz dead zone ranges" have been determined, contemplate a work-around?

Cheers
 
My Rift CV1 is coming in april too. My 2.5 year wait for VR is almost over :cool:. VR + tactile will be awesome.

We seek to make it MORE awesome! :)


Howdy, sorry for dragging my feet on this Simvibe project I keep promising... hopefully I will find time to finally finish this project & post at the weekend.

Heads up, this project (as you will see) will not provide any benefit to those that have Simvibe already setup to some degree... it is more for those that have recently purchased the software or plan to purchase in the future.

Probably stated this before but will repeat again, this project is basically a "printable hardcopy" of Simvibe effects, their ranges & characteristics. The real benefit will be for those who want to know what Simvibe has to offer within its basic parameters' whilst one is not sitting at the computer, scrolling through continuous pages of effects "data" & attempting to remember what has gone before.

With a printable "hardcopy" in hand, "starting points / testing ideas & refinement notes" can easily be written down within these pages at anytime & anywhere when one's inspiration strikes.

ML, Lucian84... probably nothing as this may not be an issue at all, but possibly worth saying anyhow? Perhaps test each & every Hz (via MP3 files) through each TU independently for locating any "dead zones" within the chassis rig itself along with it's located TU? Once the "Hz dead zone ranges" have been determined, contemplate a work-around?

Cheers

Hit me on PM if you want sometime, need a catch up.

No doubt SV could drive a person loopy. So what your doing will be some help.
Maybe I can get some more experience gathered in coming weeks with my friends offer.

The issue lucian was having is detectable by trying to calculate the rpm value to determine its Hz frequency in where it is happening. Oh he's done loads of audio tone tests, sub tests, stereo tests and checking the hardware prior to Simvibe, first thing I made him do and we spent some time trying to determine the cause if it was a hardware or installation issue.

Yes you can set a PEQ filter on inuke dsp for the required HZ ranges and reduce these greatly for only those frequencies but that would then compensate other effects using the same Hz too on those individual channels or tactile units.

Im confident we will get around the early learning curve and issues, no doubt more will surface. It seems an issue with the generation of the scale with the values we used, more investigation but likely can be fixed with some of the other tools available. We are Simvibe noobs so have to learn...

Adding more layers that are smaller will perhaps help.
I was even interested in layers for each individual gear so greater control of the Hz produced could be possible with the scale but such can be trialled at a later time or used to compare to something more traditionally used.

Trial and error with many errors :)
 
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I turned on the amps and launched sim vibe, first time in ages. Shameful the amount of use my rig gets lol


its alive.jpg



I'll buy it back off you @ £5 a week or a free Chinese take-away with prawn crackers and can of your choice. Hard to refuse I know but take your pick. :)

If you get a chance mate appreciate if you can PM me your engine settings just to get an idea for next time I talk to lucian. Been doing some other research to help on our next attempt if he hasn't already found a good working solution.

You deserve a bit of fun so enjoy it when you can...
 
View attachment 520075


I'll buy it back off you @ £5 a week or a free Chinese take-away with prawn crackers and can of your choice. Hard to refuse I know but take your pick. :)

If you get a chance mate PM me your engine settings just to get an idea for next time I talk to lucian.
Been doing some other research to help on our next attempt if he hasn't already found a good working solution.

You deserve a bit of fun so enjoy it when you can...

I don't have time at the moment to much at work to tired to do anything when I'm home. Il give you a message when I'm on the monster.
keep the research going ;)
 
Unravelling The Mysteries

I've been researching potential options for people to perhaps learn to get a better understanding of what Simvibe is doing with any changes made to its output of effects. This includes textures too or anything it processes. While I have seen other much more advanced hardware solutions to help enable this in the past they also come at a high cost so this is why I have not shared them before.

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How & Why
It would be possible to utilise a duplicated output from Simvibe (soundcard) to have this detected via RTA (Real Time Analyser) or other audio monitoring software. This will give a visual reading of the effects in real time. Showing what Hz are being used and the intensity of the db, their variation in the Hz and their peak levels.

If the user knows the Hz being used for the changes being made and the effect being monitored it will then allow them to better arrange effects that are not potentially conflicting with similar frequencies if on the same channel. TONE based effects in Simvibe may illustrate the Hz ranges that the user determines but does nothing to illustrate their operation within the set range.

Unknowns?
Additionally their seems to be not much explanation or understanding available regards TEXTURES and what frequencies they use or in how they differ to the TONE based effects.
The other confusion I see asked in various forums upon research is the difference between ROAD BUMPS and VERTICAL SURGES. I certainly have never found anywhere, any proper exploration or knowledge of such or if one is better used in some games or others.

Then their is the question of applying multiple LAYERS how does it alter the output? I could go on but really their are many other features/controls that are shrouded with little explanation or understanding that we generally have little idea how it is adapting the output of the effect. This includes the intensity, when the effects are being used and how often they are active.

Revealed!
These are some of the factors that monitoring via RTA and even by headphones would allow the user to see and hear the difference audibly to the effect. Simvibe of course can easily allow the user to run single effects for direct or sole monitoring. This is perfect but really it depends what the users switch on within the OUTPUT MIXER and what channel(s) they want to monitor. Monitoring of db level and peak output of even all Simvibe channels is possible or the frequencies being used within a set channel.

Those with more advanced configurations or demand for fine tuning I still recommended "inuke dsp" amplifiers. These can specifically enhance the exact frequencies discovered by the monitoring process for certain effects via the PEQ feature they offer.

This will enable more optimisation to user preference or to the tactile hardware they use in either boosting or reducing how an effect feels, not just increase or decrease its "general output" level. Different tactile units may vary in their feel regards the generation and operation of frequencies. So "volume intensity" and individual "Hz equalisation" should not be confused or treated as the same thing. This has always been one of my main reasons for promoting the inuke dsp models because they can give the user more personalisation control. This easy tuning option enables a user to adapt the output from Simvibe so it is more suited to the model of tactile they are using and/or their own personal preference in how its output actually feels.

Some of the Digital Mixers available for what I am recommending here also of course may enable advanced control of the audio source input to be adapted in various ways too. This could create problems however if not understood or used properly but of course can be bypassed leaving the Simvibe output completely unaltered.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  1. Visually Monitor In Real Time
  2. Audio Monitoring Via Headphones
  3. Record Simvibe Channel Outputs for later or deeper comparison

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TEXTURE BASED EFFECTS
  • Road Texture
  • Suspension Texture
  • Vertical Texture
  • Front Suspension Texture L/R
  • Rear Suspension Texture L/R

Placement = FRONT / REAR / ALL 4
Effect Type = CONSTANT (TBC)
  • Speed based white noise
  • Engine
  • Road Bumps
  • Vertical Surges
  • Wheel Slip * (few games only)


 
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To keep it simple and potentially possible for many. I think the ipad seems to be one of the most suitable platforms. Their are of course options to do similar on PC or MAC but a portable device may have some benefits. Android can be researched as it too technically could do the same but their may be fewer hardware choices and suitable apps. Apple may have the pro/music scene more supported perhaps?

* I am in no way a musician or have experience with the devices shown below but perhaps someone reading can by all means bring more information or thoughts. As always it would be welcomed.


So this would mainly be a process of:
  • Cable or connector or pass-through box to duplicate the Simvibe output
  • One goes to your amp as normal
  • One goes to a suitable ipad audio device/dock
  • Suitable apps via app store
Some of the hardware options available will allow the audio to be output and forwarded to your amp and of course also allow audio monitoring via headphones. Other features or benefits too could be useful.


Please note this is by research not by ownership or usage of any of these. I see no reason why they will not work as "analogue audio is audio" regardless of what it is coming from. For the record I am in no way attached to any of the companies, apps or dealers nor get a penny promoting products of my own preference here. The aim is to highlight these as a potential benefit.

We can further discuss if anyone is interested but really these solutions are for those that want to be able to get the most out of their Simvibe configuration and achieve greater understanding of it. I think it is about time don't you?


First software apps.
This below looks to do more than required for monitoring purposes which is our main goal.
We are not necessarily looking at ways to modify the output or change it. This app has many other features too but seems to be one of the better ones for our requirements.

Ideally we need to monitor frequencies of approx 20Hz-100Hz many apps will not offer very low frequency monitoring. Those that offer more BARS within this range will give you greater visual information of specific frequencies.

Audio Tools via app store.
Audio Tools $19.99
Audio Tools UK £14.99

See some of the features here:



Additional examples:












Hardware Considerations.
This is by no means are the only or perhaps best solutions but some I found may be good for this application.

Official Page Focusrite iTrack Dock
Typical UK Promotion/Price £130+

This offers 2 channel input and headphone monitoring including pass-through to amp.
Units that offer pass-through will not need the user to split the Simvibe output from the soundcard.





 
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Alesis io-mix Homepage
This device looks to offer upto 4 inputs so could deal with ALL4 in CM. It would be possible if this was beside a cockpit to allow the increase/decrease the volumes easily as well. It too has various output and headphone monitoring for a similar price range.

Their seems to be a different version of this too without the siders, not sure if it is older model but can be purchased slightly cheaper.

*Do take note the software app used will determine what is possible and if any offer recording or 4 channel monitoring.

Approx on offer £140









Behringer iStudio iPad Mixer Dock INFO PAGE
Available on offer for @ £75
This unit looks to offer the basic features as some others with a good range of inputs using 2 channels. For the cost could be ideal for what is needed.

More info below:






Many more are available and could be compatible with Android/PC/iPad or Mac. Some can even offer wireless control via Bluetooth or Wifi. Depends on the budget you want to spend. Of course the Android side of things needs to be looked at too and the available apps, these posts are just to give an insight into my thinking of what could be done or achieved.

This approach via "Digital Mixers" however I believe is a good direction to look more into or consider in getting the most out of Simvibe at this time and for anyone wanting to build a high end tactile based cockpit with Simvibe or "Game Audio" usage from Consoles etc. It also does not seem to be over complicated to grasp and only would require basic skills to get it working.

Someone or a group of people could at least use such within the community to then discover and explain/share in more detail all the unknown stuff about the Simvibe software described above. Certainly it should open the door more than has been done before. It also would be ideal for a future guide to be created, going much deeper in content and understanding than anyone has yet produced.

Perhaps something the Simvibe user-base or community can really benefit from.

*I personally in time will be interested to go through EVERY single slider/option/feature Simvibe offers to collect data and form better understanding. It is possible to consider to use this towards an informative guide. It needs some thought and consideration how to best implement tests and such would be easier with additional help or creativity.
 
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You are trying to see 20 steps down the way, but still not doing the first necessary steps to get moving. Instead of planning to buy extra expensive equipment you should install Simvibe, play a bit with the settings, understand what they are, share your experiences, and once you tune it..then start the process of fine tuning. Because after all, until now everything here is in theory. There is not yet the practical guide for basic Simvibe parameters.
The feeling you get from Simvibe is not universal. A well setup profile will have a complete difference in another rig with other materials and shakers.Even the same shakers and other material and placement changes the situation. You people are obviously not engineers, since you are looking at the least cost efficient ways to make your research.

People need to understand how simvibe works in order to add tactile to their rigs. If they feel it's something too complicated they won't. If they can manage the basics then they could go a step further down the line and help with fine tuning themselves.

Please.
 
You are trying to see 20 steps down the way, but still not doing the first necessary steps to get moving. Instead of planning to buy extra expensive equipment you should install Simvibe, play a bit with the settings, understand what they are, share your experiences, and once you tune it..then start the process of fine tuning. Because after all, until now everything here is in theory. There is not yet the practical guide for basic Simvibe parameters.
The feeling you get from Simvibe is not universal. A well setup profile will have a complete difference in another rig with other materials and shakers.Even the same shakers and other material and placement changes the situation. You people are obviously not engineers, since you are looking at the least cost efficient ways to make your research.

People need to understand how simvibe works in order to add tactile to their rigs. If they feel it's something too complicated they won't. If they can manage the basics then they could go a step further down the line and help with fine tuning themselves.

Please.


Hi, I did install it and recently explained as I have a laptop not capable of running much games, no games are installed neither and Simvibe will not even complete configuration because of this. If I actually did install even the easiest games to run with the intel based gfx (wooo hooo) I then need to buy a USB sound-card. Yet this is no good or recommended for Simvibe so I would have to then use the USB card for audio and the on-board sound of the laptop for Simvibe, which is only 2 channels. I don't really want to do that as when I become more familiar in testing it I want to do so properly in CM.

I appreciate your help @asteroulis and what your saying, in time when my own circumstances change then I may be able to do such properly.

With respect this thread was started by someone querying the building of an advanced Simvibe cockpit. Discussion may of considered or queried many things that do not seem to be clarified regards Simvibe but most should have some relevance to the OPs own considerations and interests. You talk about sharing experiences. Well their has been limited help in this thread for the OP, myself or anyone seeking to learn more. To anyone reading when asked many times regards things within Simvibe few people typically do little or something to help or clarify.

I may have different opinion to what the best configuration may be and RW65 clearly has something different in mind, which is fine, it certainly never stopped me putting hours into this thread or to help inspire others as I know it has/did.

As for the recent usage of ipad audio input dock and usage of software, it will work as Simvibe outputs standard analogue audio via all it's channels. All that is required is suitable apps that monitor that audio source connected. This was all researched and done not for my own benefit as I am not in the position to do such but for others that want to persue or consider. Thier is no technical reason that makes it not possible my friend.

I will however be taking up the offer from a friend of temporary getting a grasp of Simvibe itself and understanding more its usage just like everyone that uses it has to learn and mostly via trial n error.

What people want to do with their Simvibe setup is up to them. I know what I want to do and achieve even if it takes time to make it happen.
 
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Rodney,

I have a Inuke 1000 DSP, which i use for Engine RPM and Gearshift only. The only thing i do now with the amp is turning on, i'm not even using the volume controle.

I use a RPM based filter in simvibe that basically raises the volume when the engine revs go up. Feels pretty awesome and it's one of my favourite effects in simvibe.

What could i benefit by using the Inuke DSP ?
What can the Inuke DSP do for me what Simvibe can't?
 
Henk

Please do and I insist to feel it necessary to correct me where I am wrong in the below. You have been involved with Simvibe and even a beta member pre-launch. So of course you have a good deal of user experience of it and I am only a noob with little user experience. Your query deserves a detailed answer as engine is rather technical in Simvibe with what is possible. Also I assume rpm/speed based modifiers bring more in their operation as well as engine being a constant effect?



Double Espresso Answer

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What Simvibe Does
The user can generate the control of what effects to use, how effects operate, when they operate, their intensity. For TONE based effects we choose the Hz ranges they operate in, the direction of their volume scale and the overall volume output for all effects used within the output mixer. Several effects like textures or other settings/sliders for control within Simvibe are less understood. It is questionable what frequencies they may be generating and this could also vary. I would add that some users may avoid certain features due to no proper explanation what they do or if they are of any potential benefit or decremental to the overall users experience or their tactile's performance.

What Inuke DSP Does
This gives the user control to adapt the Simvibe Output to better suit the following:

  1. The tactile units individual performance characteristics
  2. Increased detailing of their operation
  3. The users own unique cockpit installation
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before covering the above let me state that. The DSP control is not just a single feature neither their are several features with potential to be a benefit. Firstly you have overload protection to digitally limit the wattage is within that of your tactile. You can set the (High Pass & Low Pass Filters). Basically the working Tone Hz range the tactile will operate in for all effects on the channel. This has benefits during testing (examples below). Also their are GEQ / DELAY and more features. The one often mentioned here in this thread is PEQ. (Parametric EQ)


Latte With Cream & Chocolate Answer

Your Cockpit & Example
I know you put plenty of thought into your own configuration. You mention "Engine RPM & Gear-shift" are the only effects these two units are producing.

So with engine, you have a constant use effect working within a "user set" TONE range eg 10Hz-135Hz. I expect you will be using various layers controlling how the engine effects from Simvibe are generated and managed for greater control. Gear-shifts of course are only a short event based effect so should require little additional demands on the tactile unit already generating the engine effects.

Your "less is more" preference and these being I assume Mini LFE units via an EM channel should cope well already. By having this set role you are excluding them from additional TONE based effects that also would require a "user set" working frequency Hz range and place more demands on the tactile. This thread has already discussed doing this is a good idea. Recommending if possible to avoid having multiple constant effects so as not to overwhelm a single tactile unit. With the end result potentially causing a loss in general performance or individual effects realised detail.



Not Got a Clue About PEQ?
Lets look at your example again...

What you cant do to my knowledge with Simvibe is determine how your tactile will respond to "effects created"
Yes you can set the TONE (begin/end) working range, you can determine by layers how it is used for set ranges and you can set the intensity for the power of this effect to a fixed intensity or in various ways to increase or decrease with rpm/speed. This to my understanding does not give db intensity control to individual Hz that the tactile will be generating. I question but it might be possible to set multiple very small Hz ranges to operate at different intensities but I do not believe Simvibe gives the same level of control in this area.

For example lets assume you have a working range of 10Hz-100Hz for engine and you also use additional layers for increased presence and control. Depending if you use increase/decrease volume to boost the higher or lower rpm/speed. This will alter the db intensity for either low/high values with @45Hz representing 50% volume intensity in either case within the working Tone range. Notice that with a default 10Hz-135Hz setting the 50% volume intensity would be for the approx 60Hz range (more on this later).

What you can not do by altering only the intensity and direction of its scale is determine how different frequencies within the set range are controlled. Your global set volume will also likely represent a level that is below when the piston would pang / yes? When you do increase/decrease this the general volume for all the frequencies db output are going to be altered but still work to the method of the scale used.


Amps & Specs
Different people use different tactile units and even different amplification. These determine how the Simvibe Hz for all the effects are generated. Not all amps nor tactile operate in the same way or perform in the same way. Some have different characteristics in their operation. Many amps are limited in their low end performance (sub 40Hz) and likewise are many tactile. They may flaunt nice specifications from a test lab in controlled/limited circumstances but real world operation often differs.


The Baby Buttkickers
I highlighted this about 3-4 years ago and the tendency to have issues below the 35Hz range. It is not always the case but more noticeable with increased wattage. The piston on the BK will pang as it bottoms. It does not matter if it is a BK Gamer/ Mini LFE or SE to my knowledge they all are inherent of this issue. What people generally do with some amps or even BKs own is they reduce the working range by the "Hi Pass Filter" control. This reduces the load of frequencies being sent to the BK but it does not eradicate the issue with the low end. Buttkicker themselves recommend users "reduce volume". The point being the issue is a performance based limitation.


Aura Pro / Clarke Synthesis / ADX / Reckhorn etc
These types of units operate differently to BK and some may have peak output commonly around 40Hz. They also may be irritating in feeling and make most noise with mid bass frequencies commonly I find around 60Hz. So their characteristics are different.
(Do you think it is coincidence the @60Hz range is a controlled 50% volume for rpm/speed based engine. Or purposely related to the issues these frequency can present in various tactile)


PEQ to the RESCUE?
So it is possible to alter the intensity or db level of individual Hz. In your case example a Mini LFE. A user can address the (35Hz) issue by reducing the db strength to any Hz in the working range. Lets say you want to reduce the 10-35Hz range. No problem how about -5db, do you want to reduce more/less = okay. What if you want to just feel what the tactile is doing between 25Hz and 35Hz with your engine effect. You can if you want investigate to determine what Hz are most responsible for the problem by this approach.

As mentioned earlier, by setting the working range of the inuke to only operate at what Hz you want avoiding making changes to Simvibe settings or any pre-sets. It allows you to monitor exactly a Hz range that a specific effect or all effects are coming from any Simvibe channel. You can then determine how your tactile is generating and handling these effects if you wish. Controlling the individual Hz db totally separate from a general volume or intensity control.


So as example only...
You may end up selecting 10Hz @ -5db / 20Hz-3db / 35Hz -8 db
You now in layman's terms are reducing the volume output of this sub 35Hz range to try and avoid the "over-driving" of the piston. If/when successful now you have found your idle engine and first gear revs might be better controlled but optimised to produce the best low end before causing the piston to pang. This could now potentially allow the use of more intensity for the engine which may help the feel of other revs too. Possibly you kept a set volume to avoid the "over-driving" now you could have increased volume and no issue. Alternatively you may of avoided using certain low Hz Tones altogether due to the piston problem persisting.


Quick Summary
Without going deeper into controlling individual Hz. Be it for low range, mid range or high engine revs. Either to boost or reduce their felt sensation and how you like such via the Mini LFE.

The point being compared to using Simvibes rpm/speed based volume scale generation. The volume or tone smoothing or using a standard fixed engine tone intensity. All these determine how the working range eg (10-135Hz) is utilised but do not determine the ability for the user to match how the individual tones will be produced on their own tactile.

So like I have said in the past use Simvibe for controlling the effect but use the PEQ for controlling how your tactile's characteristics will operate with such frequencies.
 
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Thanks for that wel documented reply Rodney 👍

To simplify what you just explained in great detail:

It will allow me to tune my transducers specific to my rig:
- eliminate / reduce the specific problem areas (frequenties) where the buttkicker might be giving me issues (aka bottoming out)
-enhance frequenties that i like or work best on rig.

Because this is set at amp level, this will work for all Simcommander presets through that amp.

Great stuff, i have to dive into that one of these days. :cheers:

Engine tactile already works pretty flaweless as it is, but there always room for improvement. :D
 
Yes it is about fine tuning and controlling how the tactile respond.
Lucian is totally new to tactile and has been grasping this quite well. Espically with the audio tests he discovered the Clark TST needed reduced in the mid frequencies as they are very lively in that range. The 10Hz - 100Hz is a limited range but how vibrations react to these tones varies. Some if reduced may also reduce vibration noise to the contact surface/area but if bad noise comes from the mounting connection/solution then I recommend using a material to help dampen the contact between the tactile unit and surface it is attached to. Strong volume may produce ringing on metal or an audible sound within wood as the structure of the wood/metals themselves are effected by the actual tones. A vibrating mobile phone on a surface is an example or making the surface audible.

It may be easier to understand with this....

The aspect of it is similar to speakers, were a user may be trying to tune their performance characteristics to the source they are using, their personal taste and the room acoustics. Some speakers are over-bright in mid - high frequencies, some are better than others for good bass, some may be more neutral or have a flat response. All these of course depend on the amplifier/speaker combination in how well they also match to how they work well together.

For tactile we generally need amplifers that handle the low frequencies better and with little distortion. Some of the cheap amps will have higher distortion levels even if they may list suitable specs for wattage.
 
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No, I have not used it myself. I'm just using the simple RealTek EQ that comes with my onboard soundcard to amplify 33 Hz by 3 dB, that's enough for me. But Equalizer APO exists since 2012 and it gets good reviews, so I cannot imagine it is 'corrupted'. They recently added a GUI which makes it easier to configure. Editing a config file by hand is what's kept me from using it in the past.
 
You guys know this exists?

Not used it but their are likely dozens of professional music applications/software on PC that are suitable and offer DSP control. I know from past research some home cinema enthusiasts/communities look or discus these. The topic of sub-woofer tuning is big and similar aspect relating to sub-harmonics. Also communities that do live gigs with huge subwoofers/speakers such software or indeed hardware is common place.

Some may have a greater learning curve than found on say an ipad or possibly android with digital mixers. Certainly feel free to share or research alternatives but for a user to input 4-8 Simvibe channels into a PC will also likely in many cases require a hardware solution to do such compared too what some on-board or soundcards may offer with perhaps only traditional stereo input.

I do not know if it is possible to enable such software to monitor the Simvibe based "soundcards" (note also for many not just 1 card but 2 guys) prior to the live audio being output. So some of the professional based options may be more complicated to learn and may still require additional hardware purchases anyways.

Perhaps audio does not even need to be output to be monitored or routed back into PC. All worth researching. :)
 
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Check these out...
The Behringer XR series offers incredible control far beyond the inuke DSP.
It was my original personal consideration. Works on mobiles/tablets/PC or Mac and controlled from any or even all at once via wifi.

 
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Not used it but their are likely dozens of professional music applications/software on PC that are suitable and offer DSP control. I know from past research some home cinema enthusiasts/communities look or discus these. The topic of sub-woofer tuning is big and similar aspect relating to sub-harmonics. Also communities that do live gigs with huge subwoofers/speakers such software or indeed hardware is common place.

Some may have a greater learning curve than found on say an ipad or possibly android with digital mixers. Certainly feel free to share or research alternatives but for a user to input 4-8 Simvibe channels into a PC will also likely in many cases require a hardware solution to do such compared too what some on-board or soundcards may offer with perhaps only traditional stereo input.

I do not know if it is possible to enable such software to monitor the Simvibe based "soundcards" (note also for many not just 1 card but 2 guys) prior to the live audio being output. So some of the professional based options may be more complicated to learn and may still require additional hardware purchases anyways.

Perhaps audio does not even need to be output to be monitored or routed back into PC. All worth researching. :)
Equalizer APO seems to be able to do that as well, see this discussion.
 
For some of you, certainly might be worth checking.

Really whatever approach a user determines they want to go with for monitoring Simvibe any should be of some benefit. To increase the understanding of how different effects will be using various Hz, their timing or other useful information about them.

So much can be learned and the data used to get the most out of the software to each users hardware configuration used. As questioned earlier in this thread also understanding fully what effects are indeed mono based, front/rear based or fully multidimensional.

I would be interested if some of you want to discuss your own engine based settings or appreciate if you can PM any tips to @lucian84 or @RW65. I am sure they would appreciate more interaction or determining proven success in your own configurations. Be a while before I will get any benefit from it so consider it helping them or others, please.

At the moment I am keen on increasing my knowledge on it how/where possible. Would like to hear more on the pros/cons for engine on the usage of
  1. Volume increase rpm/speed?
  2. Volume decrease rpm/speed?
  3. Versus using a fixed db level with multiple personal layers for individual gears?
  4. What could potentially be the very best usage of engine?
 
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Equalizer APO seems to be able to do that as well, see this discussion.

I certainly welcome yours or others own research to confirm if monitoring Simvibe in real-time is possible. It has to do so in real-time, monitoring user changes and of course game effects output, with no latency. Stereo 2 Channel monitoring would be enough and rather useful to determine how kerbs/road bumps/textures/surfaces are being generated. Having visual analysis with RTA would be excellent. Other effects too under such monitoring will also highlight which are dual mono, stereo and while ALL4 monitoring could conclusively determine which are fully multi-dimensional. Also with this level of monitoring a user could help avoid certain effects causing clipping, by monitoring the db output.

Basically such monitoring brings several uses and with greater understanding of Simvibe.

The main drawback with such technical software (several) on PC may be a bit of a challenge for the users to grasp or their learning curve. This is why I see the the ipad/android hardware dock solutions much easier to grasp with apps specifically made for easy usage too.
 
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