NEW DLC (TWIN RING MOTEGI & Scion FR-S'12)

[Suzumiya]

I like the track and the many variations of it. Since I am a NASCAR fan, I will be using the oval constantly, and the Road Course will also be ripped up constantly. Great deal for me. :3

 

[Samus]

Simon, Will you be buying it.

No I won't. I only buy DLC which I think represents value for money, so the only GT5 DLC I have bought is Spa. I don't buy the "It's only the price of a coffee" etc, it's about what I think something is worth, and to me this track is not worth £4.

When was this confirmed?

Well you don't think they started from scratch like they did with Spa when they had all that GT4 data, do you? Nobody knows exactly how they built it but clearly they didn't have as much work to do as creating a brand new track.

They are two seperate tracks....I would think that is pretty obvious. The Oval is not part of the road course....the road course is not part of the oval....hence my use of the word "seperate".?

They are on the same land though, and share the same background assets etc. Spa and Kart Space are completely different. It's not like PD would have finished the road track then thought "Right, back to the drawing board to make the oval".

 

[TheDabbinDave]

I'm sure PD has more cars (and tracks) completed but they're saving them for GT6. Every car released now as DLC is one new car less for GT6.

I don't know about you, but if GT6 comes out in 2014, not too many people are going to be all excited about a not so exciting production car. I'm sick of Gran Turismo having such a pathetic selection of current year cars.

 

[axl54]

When was this confirmed?

Confirmation isn't required, just open your eyes and look at the track.

 

[BubbleBelly542]

People stop trying to look for reasons why it costs $5. It just does. Complaining won't fix it.

 

[Bluntified]

Like I said, they COULD just send you a copy of the car and it not be in any dealer. They could also have just listed it as Scion on the arcade 1 car demo and in the full game still add it into the Toyota garage. They probably won't and you'll probably be right but that image still doesn't prove anything, it just gives a strong suggestion.

This is exactly what I think. I don't think we're getting any new dealerships, I just think we're getting a car ticket, like we always do. How many time have we gotten cars that don't show up in the Dealership? Dozens.

This is kinda like a freebie for making people wait so long for DLC to come, like they did when they gave out the GT-R and NSX Stealth mode cars when the servers went down. They gave us the cars but didn't add them to the dealership. As with all the Academy cars.

 

[DaveS1138]

They are on the same land though, and share the same background assets etc. Spa and Kart Space are completely different. It's not like PD would have finished the road track then thought "Right, back to the drawing board to make the oval".

So what if they are on the same land. They are still two seperate tracks that you get to race on in 4 different configurations......which is exactly what you had with Spa and Kart space.

So it was easier for them to model.....so what?

If your boss pays you $5 for the job you did today should he only pay you $4 tomorrow if the work is easier?

 

[Samus]

People stop trying to look for reasons why it costs $5. It just does. Complaining won't fix it.

Actually DLC has been reduced in the past in other games after community 'uproar'.

 

[terminator363]

Tracks too bland and ugly - and not one of my faves - so will not buy. Too much for a quick hd port of a Gt4 track imo. I think Pd should have given it away for free, as a goodwill gesture to the community who have stuck by this game through long delays, and many updates, to try and improve such a mediocre and disapponting entry in the series when released.

👍

If your boss pays you $5 for the job you did today should he only pay you $4 tomorrow if the work is easier?

Yeah, but it cost more!

 

[Griffith500]

Confirmation isn't required, just open your eyes and look at the track.

I forgot that's how the world works. Thank you, oracle.

...
Well you don't think they started from scratch like they did with Spa when they had all that GT4 data, do you? Nobody knows exactly how they built it but clearly they didn't have as much work to do as creating a brand new track.
...

Motegi has changed slightly in the intervening time, and the differences are reflected in the new track. Sure, if they laser scanned it, they can re-use the data, and a lot of the photos. But it's not like they've just taken the track and ported it. It is re-built from the ground up, it's clear to see. Unless we're going to argue that the Nordschleife, Le Sarthe, Tsukuba etc. are all "ports", too? In fact, why don't we just say the Premium cars are ports? I mean, it's the same data...

...
d) it's a strange kind of Earthquake tax
...

That's a strange kind of humour.

 

[dhandeh]

You like - You buy.
You don't like - You don't buy.

 

[axl54]

@Griffith 500, Your Welcome my child

 

[Samus]

So what if they are on the same land. They are still two seperate tracks that you get to race on in 4 different configurations......which is exactly what you had with Spa and Kart space.

So it was easier for them to model.....so what?

If your boss pays you $5 for the job you did today should he only pay you $4 tomorrow if the work is easier?

Easier to model = less hours to put in = less dev time should = lower cost.

Paying me (or in this case the PD employees) has nothing to do with how much they charge for DLC. They would still get paid the same if they gave it away for free, for example. I'm not saying they should do that, but your analogy is wrong.

It's more like, if you pay an employee $5 a day and in 5 days they create a track, then in the next two days they create another track, you've paid less to your employees to create that track, the next three days he can work on something else. So you can afford to charge consumers less for it.

 

[CodeRedR51]

You like - You buy.
You don't like - You don't buy.

👍

 

[Samus]

I forgot that's how the world works. Thank you, oracle.


Motegi has changed slightly in the intervening time, and the differences are reflected in the new track. Sure, if they laser scanned it, they can re-use the data, and a lot of the photos. But it's not like they've just taken the track and ported it. It is re-built from the ground up, it's clear to see.

I don't think it is, most of it looks exactly the same, save the different lighting. All I'm saying is they clearly didn't start with a blank piece of paper as they did with Spa.

Unless we're going to argue that the Nordschleife, Le Sarthe, Tsukuba etc. are all "ports", too? In fact, why don't we just say the Premium cars are ports? I mean, it's the same data...

La Sarthe 05 and many of the original tracks clearly ARE ports. As for the premium cars they're not ports no, because they aren't the same data (much more detail) and were started from scratch because of how the standard cars were modeled (one piece). It's not the same for tracks.

You like - You buy.
You don't like - You don't buy.

Very true, but this is a discussion forum. It would be rather boring if everyone just made that decision and didn't comment on it, would it? Or you'd just have a forum full of "I'm buying", "I'm not buying". Again, rather boring.

 

[Suzumiya]

The United States Playstation Blog states that the DLC will come 'today'. Don't know if the article was meant to come out tomorrow, or something.

 

[dhandeh]

Easier to model = less hours to put in = less dev time should = lower cost.

Paying me (or in this case the PD employees) has nothing to do with how much they charge for DLC. They would still get paid the same if they gave it away for free, for example. I'm not saying they should do that, but your analogy is wrong.

It's more like, if you pay an employee $5 a day and in 5 days they create a track, then in the next two days they create another track, you've paid less to your employees to create that track, the next three days he can work on something else. So you can afford to charge consumers less for it.

And the next track takes 8 days to create, then what? You make it four times the price, as it took four times as long to create?

 

[BubbleBelly542]

Actually DLC has been reduced in the past in other games after community 'uproar'.

Well, since it's coming out tomorrow I don't think we have enough time to complain our way out.

 

[RACECAR]

Here's where I find the whole price complaints kinda unnecessary:

Essentially, the track DLC gets only a 1 dollar increase and everyone complains, all the while I see another game offering up a DLC track that should've been in its game from the start purely because unlike in GT5, you can't complete the main game without it and its $9.99. If It was a 3 dollar increase or more for 1 track, I'd understand but from what I'm looking at, its only 1 dollar more. I don't understand whats wrong about that

Going by the attitudes of some of the production staff, I wouldn't bet on that. They're casting their net as wide as possible, just like everyone else - plus there's the whole "too many cooks" thing inherent in the development model.

Interesting because that was not the impresssion I initially got.

This new version of Motegi has clearly had a lot of work since GT4, but I'm still curious as to why it's dearer than the Spa + Kart Space pack.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Samus]

And the next track takes 8 days to create, then what? You make it four times the price, as it took four times as long to create?

Well no, because that was a very crude example. Tracks obviously aren't made in days. My underlying point was that if something takes less dev time to create you can afford to sell it cheaper. You don't have to, but you can afford to. That's why I'm confused that it's costing more.

 

[DaveS1138]

Easier to model = less hours to put in = less dev time should = lower cost.

Paying me (or in this case the PD employees) has nothing to do with how much they charge for DLC. They would still get paid the same if they gave it away for free, for example. I'm not saying they should do that, but your analogy is wrong.

It's more like, if you pay an employee $5 a day and in 5 days they create a track, then in the next two days they create another track, you've paid less to your employees to create that track, the next three days he can work on something else. So you can afford to charge consumers less for it.

I'm guessing you have never run a company.

If they take 5 days to create Spa and Kart Space you charge your customers $5 for it because it's two tracks.

If they take 3 days to create the oval and road course you charge your customers $5 for it because it's two tracks.

The fact it took your employees 2 days less to model it is a little thing people like to call "profit".

It's the reason Sony, PD and everybody else are in buisiness.

Look at it this way......people like to claim GT5 took 5 years to make and it costs $60 when it was released.....
If PD take 3 years to make GT6 are you going to claim it should only cost $40 because they didn't spend as long making it?

No of course you are not......it's going to cost $60 because that's what a full retail PS3 game costs. Doesn't matter how long it took to make or how complex/easy it was to make.

 

[Spagetti69]

The United States Playstation Blog states that the DLC will come 'today'. Don't know if the article was meant to come out tomorrow, or something.

Ha ha. Only Playstation could do these gems.

The article should say "coming out today, unless your reading this tomorrow then it came out yesterday".

Lol.

 

[dhandeh]

Very true, but this is a discussion forum. It would be rather boring if everyone just made that decision and didn't comment on it, would it? Or you'd just have a forum full of "I'm buying", "I'm not buying". Again, rather boring.

Or you could have a forum full of whining, about why it isn't free, why this, why that, why haven't PD made my bed, blah blah blah.

The simple fact is it is a new track to GT5. The main problem with GT5 DLC is the ingame support it doesn't get. We get a new track, but no new events to run it with. It is up to us to go online with or hotlap on your own.

 

[Samus]

Here's where I find the whole price complaints kinda unnecessary:

Essentially, the track DLC gets only a 1 dollar increase and everyone complains, all the while I see another game offering up a DLC track that should've been in its game from the start purely because unlike in GT5, you can't complete the main game without it and its $9.99. If It was a 3 dollar increase or more for 1 track, I'd understand but from what I'm looking at, its only 1 dollar more. I don't understand whats wrong about that

What game are you talking about there?

Also it's not about the cost itself, it's the principal of the matter. I don't see why I should have to pay more, for less.

I'm guessing you have never run a company.

If they take 5 days to create Spa and Kart Space you charge your customers $5 for it because it's two tracks.

If they take 3 days to create the oval and road course you charge your customers $5 for it because it's two tracks.

The fact it took your employees 2 days less to model it is a little thing people like to call "profit".

It's the reason Sony, PD and everybody else are in buisiness.

Look at it this way......people like to claim GT5 took 5 years to make and it costs $60 when it was released.....
If PD take 3 years to make GT6 are you going to claim it should only cost $40 because they didn't spend as long making it?

No of course you are not......it's going to cost $60 because that's what a full retail PS3 game costs. Doesn't matter how long it took to make or how complex/easy it was to make.

What I said is they COULD afford to charge less if they wanted to, and still turn a profit. They choose not to. Also you still aren't addressing the point that it doesn't cost the same, even if you think the content is equal, it costs more.

 

[OHM_fusion]

I don't know about you, but if GT6 comes out in 2014, not too many people are going to be all excited about a not so exciting production car. I'm sick of Gran Turismo having such a pathetic selection of current year cars.

I actually meant new cars as in cars of any year new to the series, not new as in current model year. Just like people said that GT5 has too few cars that are now to the series.

Anyway this whole DLC thing is a bad trend IMO. But hey, this community begged for it. I can't wait when GT6 comes out - people will call it a ripoff because it contains cars and tracks they already paid for ( even though somehow it wasn't a problem when going from GT3 to GT4).

 

[dhandeh]

Well no, because that was a very crude example. Tracks obviously aren't made in days. My underlying point was that if something takes less dev time to create you can afford to sell it cheaper. You don't have to, but you can afford to. That's why I'm confused that it's costing more.

How do you know it took less time to create it? For all we know, PD bought the Spa track data from any number of Publishers, added a few GT signs and that was it. It's not like Spa has never been in a game before.

The same as Twin Ring, was it a simple spit and polish or have they modelled it from scratch?

I'm happy to pay £3.99 for it. I consider that a reasonable price.

 

[NCRthree]

These complaints are boring and predictable. Forza forum complaints are like way better.

 

[DaveS1138]

What I said is they COULD afford to charge less if they wanted to, and still turn a profit. They choose not to. Also you still aren't addressing the point that it doesn't cost the same, even if you think the content is equal, it costs more.

Nike could sell me sneakers for $10 instead of $50 and still turn a profit. That's not how business works. You charge the price the market will pay and pocket the profit.

Are the prices different in the UK? Spa and Kart was $4.99 and the playstation blog says Twin ring Motegi is $5.00

 

[drummermaniac]

Will buy , great tracks .

 

[Samus]

How do you know it took less time to create it? For all we know, PD bought the Spa track data from any number of Publishers, added a few GT signs and that was it. It's not like Spa has never been in a game before.

If they did buy the track data (Which given their track record of not outsourcing anything, I hugely doubt) it wouldn't exactly have been free. There would also still have been the time making everything work in their own engine. You can't just copy and paste a track from another developer and expect it to just work in yours.

Nike could sell me sneakers for $10 instead of $50 and still turn a profit. That's not how business works. You charge the price the market will pay and pocket the profit.

Are the prices different in the UK? Spa and Kart was $4.99 and the playstation blog says Twin ring Motegi is $5.00

Spa and Kart Space is £3.19 here, Motegi is £3.99.