North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[xXKingJoshXx]

Does anyone else think a thread needs to be made about this whole North Korea thing? Technically, we're all really off topic sort of.

 

[PeterJB]

I don't see how we are. Discussing nuclear tests in North Korea and living conditions in North Korea have everything to do with North Korea...

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

It was just a thought. Anyways, this isn't a general North Korea thread. It's about a "Peaceful" rocket launch that happened a while ago. Maybe change the thread title?

 

[cphbullet]

I know the first response I'll probably get to this question will be 'because there's no oil' etc but why was north Korea not invaded looooong ago, I don't think anyone would look badly upon the invading country.

 

[a6m5]

Well, they don't have any oil, or Jews. Secondly, they have very powerful & angry mother we all know as China. It is truly sickening how China have enabled this behavior by North Korea decades after decades. The day China threaten to cut them off, North Korea would have no choice but to start playing nice.

P.S. I do see the point by Josh. I'm sorry man. I got caught up & jumped in on the discussion, but I didn't bother paying much attention to the thread title.

Edit: Before people start jumping up & down about the oil & Jews, it's a dumb joke.

 

[cphbullet]

Well, they don't have any oil, or Jews. Secondly, they have very powerful & angry mother we all know as China. It is truly sickening how China have enabled this behavior by North Korea decades after decades. The day China threaten to cut them off, North Korea would have no choice but to start playing nice.

Hmm i was unaware about china enabling them, for once though i'll reasearch this rather than just ask how:tup:

Edit: Before people start jumping up & down about the oil & Jews, it's a dumb joke.

I won't but im now thinking someone needs to make a site about oiled jewish women on a trampoline...


...see me next week on dragons den

 

[a6m5]

Hmm i was unaware about china enabling them, for once though i'll reasearch this rather than just ask how:tup:

Well, I call them out as enablers, because without the support from China, North Korea simply would not be able to keep up their lifestyle. They could barely afford to keep up their military force(buy, maintain & train), and keep their people from starving to death as it is.

I think anyone could see that North Korea is a key political pawn to China. I'm not saying that Western nation are above that either.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It is truly sickening how China have enabled this behavior by North Korea decades after decades.

If you were in China's place, what would you do differently, cut the North off entirely? You do know what that means, don't you? What little aid the North receives, they receive from China. You'd be condemning the population to death by starvation in the foolish hopes that Pyongyang would suddenly snap to and behave as demanded. We've already established that the government is an oppressive regime, and whether they do it through force, intimidation, propaganda or any combination thereof, the result would be the same: all you would do is push them further away. They would become more isolationist, more vehemently-opposed to the outside world, and even more unpredictable. The North doesn't care about its people. We know that much. They went through decades of famine without batting an eyelid. How can you claim in good conscience that you would cut the North off entirely, knowing full well that the government would simply ignore the problem of feeding its own people?

You claim to have read up on North Korea, but the sheer fact that you think the problem is China and that Pyongyang would fly the white flag of truce after two days without food aid proves just how little you understand the situation.

The day China threaten to cut them off, North Korea would have no choice but to start playing nice.

Or they'd figure "screw it" and fire a nuke at Beijing out of retaliation.

 

[Hyped]

Or they'd figure "screw it" and fire a nuke at Beijing out of retaliation.

If that were to happen, wouldn't they be left with no allies?

 

[a6m5]

If you were in China's place, what would you do differently, cut the North off entirely? You do know what that means, don't you? What little aid the North receives, they receive from China. You'd be condemning the population to death by starvation in the foolish hopes that Pyongyang would suddenly snap to and behave as demanded. We've already established that the government is an oppressive regime, and whether they do it through force, intimidation, propaganda or any combination thereof, the result would be the same: all you would do is push them further away. They would become more isolationist, more vehemently-opposed to the outside world, and even more unpredictable.

Diplomatic pressure to ease up spending on military, nukes, offer & assist in rebuilding their social structure. Throw them a bone by giving them increased business & trades.

Give them a choice. North Korea knows that China got their back. Stop the inhumane treatment of their own people, shift the focus from "versus" South Korea & the United States to rebuilding their nation, build themselves back up stronger from within. The West would not attack North Korea, as long as Chinese military is there to protect them. If they say no, I'd consider a regime change in the North, brokering peaceful reunification with the South, or invasion. *edit - by "invasion", of course I meant the first two options(regime change or reunification), but by force.

You claim to have read up on North Korea, but the sheer fact that you think the problem is China and that Pyongyang would fly the white flag of truce after two days without food aid proves just how little you understand the situation.

You are putting words into my mouth just about every post now. And what is up with the attacks. Do you just never get over things? Jesus. So reminds me of Middle East & East Asia politics.

I thought after all the exchanges, you might get just a slight hint that I believe the problem is with the North Korean Government? Clearly, I do place some blame on China, as I did refer to them as enablers. Two days? I think you might be taking my figure of speech little to literally.

Or they'd figure "screw it" and fire a nuke at Beijing out of retaliation.

That's always a possibility, though highly unlikely. I probably don't have to tell you that there are diplomatic & technical measures to prevent that from happening, and also, countermeasures exist to shoot that nuke down.

If that were to happen, wouldn't they be left with no allies?

North Korean government would cease to exist within 24 hours would be my guess.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

If that were to happen, wouldn't they be left with no allies?

They don't have any anyway, China only sticks around to keep North Korea from doing anything too stupid.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The West would not attack North Korea, as long as Chinese military is there to protect them.

North Korea is built on the philosophy of juche, or self-reliance. They would never accept another another nation standing over them and offering protection.

Two days? I think you might be taking my figure of speech little to literally.

And yet you seem to think that starving them out - as if it is some kind of siege - is a viable option. If you are as well-read on the subject of North Korea as you claim to be, you would know that the government would ignore the problem. They'd happily let their people starve and claim that they were living in paradise; they did it for a decade in the 1990s. If you were China and you cut off all support to North Korea, you would probably be faced with international pressure to restablish ties in the face of a growing humanitarian crisis that you had just created because you think you know best. It could even be interpreted as a crime against humanity.

 

[a6m5]

North Korea is built on the philosophy of juche, or self-reliance. They would never accept another another nation standing over them and offering protection.


And yet you seem to think that starving them out - as if it is some kind of siege - is a viable option. If you are as well-read on the subject of North Korea as you claim to be, you would know that the government would ignore the problem. They'd happily let their people starve and claim that they were living in paradise; they did it for a decade in the 1990s. If you were China and you cut off all support to North Korea, you would probably be faced with international pressure to restablish ties in the face of a growing humanitarian crisis that you had just created because you think you know best. It could even be interpreted as a crime against humanity.

This is the most pointless, unproductive discussion ever. What I posted in my last post, that is how I would handle it. You asked. However, I am not China, and I don't begin to see eye-to-eye with them. They also know a lot more about North Korea than you or I think, or claim to know about North Korea.

If North Korea insist on their pretend self-reliance, like I said, I would handle them as I said I would previously. Save your face, save you regime, or disappear.

 

[Blitz24]

North Korea is built on the philosophy of juche, or self-reliance. They would never accept another another nation standing over them and offering protection.


And yet you seem to think that starving them out - as if it is some kind of siege - is a viable option. If you are as well-read on the subject of North Korea as you claim to be, you would know that the government would ignore the problem. They'd happily let their people starve and claim that they were living in paradise; they did it for a decade in the 1990s. If you were China and you cut off all support to North Korea, you would probably be faced with international pressure to restablish ties in the face of a growing humanitarian crisis that you had just created because you think you know best. It could even be interpreted as a crime against humanity.

Well at least they then think that they can take on all enemies. Might not be the best approach in their situation.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If North Korea insist on their pretend self-reliance, like I said, I would handle them as I said I would previously. Save your face, save you regime, or disappear.

Which is rhetoric that they won't understand, and would likely interpret as a veiled threat.

Well at least they then think that they can take on all enemies. Might not be the best approach in their situation.

To us, no, it's not the best approach. But as has been established, the North Korean government doesn't think in the same terms as the rest of us.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

More crazy propaganda from the people who invented crazy propaganda:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-05/n-korea-video-shows-us-city-under-attack/4502654

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I see Call of Duty footage. Yeah, propaganda.

Edit:


I found the closest video I could find in five seconds.

 

[Furinkazen]

Right, i'll threaten the biggest country in the with with nukes when we can;t even get a satellite to go straight up in the air without falling down... go figure..

 

[a6m5]

Which is rhetoric that they won't understand, and would likely interpret as a veiled threat.

You are assuming that they won't understand, and yes, it is a veiled threat. I'm suggesting change of power, either from within, or outside. More waste of time.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Right, i'll threaten the biggest country in the world with nukes when we can't even get a satellite to go straight up in the air without falling down... go figure..

... With video of Call of Duty. Again, go figure is very right.


But, since when is North Korea threatening Russia? Since when isn't Russia the biggest country in the world?

 

[Tesla]

Activision make DMCA claim against North Korean video, gets taken down.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I was actually right, too?


And, copyright beats North Korea; expect a video of a video, telling us that "the American pigs are censoring North Korean usage of the internet based on the unfair principle of imperialism." I expect that, because copyrights just seem like a money grab. Yeah... [/SARCASM]

 

[Hayden]

I believe that in 20 years time, school kids will see that video in history class and realise why there is a smouldering crater just above Korea on their globe.

 

[Blitz24]

Well they made the test today.... or it failed but who knows.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/11/world/asia/north-korea-seismic-disturbance/index.html

 

[Dennisch]

So, we will see new sanctions imposed on NK, and that will be it.

Naughty Kim. Shame on you.

 

[Antonisbob]

Relevant.

I don't see why people are so uptight about Nuclear testing, the USSR and USA conducted 100's during the Cold War, and honestly, who doesn't love watching massive explosions?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't see why people are so uptight about Nuclear testing,

Because it means an unstable, unpredictable and belligerent state now has access to the single most powerful weapon mankind has ever made.

the USSR and USA conducted 100's during the Cold War,

And the Cuban Missile Crisis and Able Archer 83 taught us just how easily things can get to the point where people with these weapons can find themselves in a position where their bombs are pointed at the other person with those weapons and are about to blow the other other person up so that the other person doesn't blow them up first.

and honestly, who doesn't love watching massive explosions?

The people who are wondering if the next bomb is going to be aimed at them so that North Korea can prove a point.

 

[savage388]

Relevant.

I don't see why people are so uptight about Nuclear testing, the USSR and USA conducted 100's during the Cold War, and honestly, who doesn't love watching massive explosions?

Because as bad as the power struggle during the cold war was, north Korea is a completely unstable and unpredictable country with no known goal other than to decimate the Western world.

 

[arora]

It's not anything new, or any real threat to anyone. If they were so big and bold there would not be an SK.

Anyway... China is the power there, as much as I may like or dislike our dealings with them, they are the ones that will keep the order or not. It won't be NK.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The worst bit, is that North Korea's actually got better weapons than propagandists, and still their population seems entirely brainwashed... Basically, everything that arora doesn't say seems right.