Official GTP Online Racing Discussion Thread

[polarbear345]

Edit: post above.

But still Furi... I have ran a few series

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Edit: post above.

But still Furi... I have ran a few series

You've run a few series... But they've all been Rolex or Conti.


Can't we just add polar to the call without even adding everyone? I've got like 10 people from my Skype.

 

[Oniichan]

and not because Furi spun you?

It's something I don't want to see. If slow drivers race against slow drivers, they don't learn. I used to force myself to race against the fastest. Now, when I show up at a race track in real life, I can see everyone's mistakes and be one of the best drivers on the track.

Instructors, coaches, etc. all tell me that I'm doing exceptionally well. I've gotten top 5s in provincial races in real life, came 7th in a full season of national competition... And all because I challenged myself to improve myself. Even in GT Academy 2012, I was in the Top 32 in Canada... Because I stepped up and raced/practiced.

Seriously, putting beginners against beginners is not an idea I'd like to see.

Your looking at it through the wrong angle. New drivers into online racing are not looking to come first. They are looking for competition on their same level so they can learn how to race against other drivers and not ai. They learn racing etiquette, how to follow series/league rules and so on. When they feel they have nothing more to learn they step up into intermediate where the drivers are slightly faster then them. Once they are comfortable and ready to push more they go to advanced. Its a stepping stone way of getting more skill.

Just throwing a guy who has never race in a series before with really fast guys isn't going to be good for all. Hence why alot of leagues have issues getting drivers due to the fact there is alot of drivers on GTP that want to race online but don't because they have no real entry point.

Hence why GTP should create official leagues for these drivers to step into the world of online racing. Nothing is stopping said driver from joining more hardcore racing leagues. It's all about giving options and providing an entry point to online racing for more people.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8850183#post8850183


I see no problem with having new guys join right in. Sorry.

 

[Com Fox]

Would this be optional, because I don't want my series to have a driver skill restriction.

 

[Oniichan]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8850183#post8850183


I see no problem with having new guys join right in. Sorry.

Not seeing what that link is meant to prove. I see 1 guy pulling out cause the racing isn't close enough. Which is what most people want in a series. Close racing. Not just for the guys at front but for everyone in the series. Something i've got down pat in the ORS. We have guys that are 1 second of the pace keeping up with the guys at the front due to my tier (division) system to help them progress.

I don't know why you are so against giving people options. How can it harm the community? I can only see positives as your giving new drivers a choice. They can choose to join a GTP beginner league or jump straight into the ITCC if they want. The people that run/host the GTP Beginner, Intermediate & Advance leagues would be like coaches/teachers helping them progress so they are not alone and left to fend for themselves. Also it helps them create friendships with other a more drivers, who in return will start series of their own due to the skills they learnt from the GTP Official leagues.

 

[Snaeper]

Just finished a good conversation with Furi, ITCC_Andrew, Wardez and at the end, polarbear.

Concerns were addressed and ideas were explained in a much better environment.

I will be hosting another conversation tomorrow, details will be added to the OP.

 

[Furinkazen]

I am not around tomorrow, but yes for the most part very progressive 👍

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

So, then, I'll have a chance to talk?



ITCC vs. ToCA jokes aside, I'm in. The conversation today, I feel, laid the ground works for tomorrow. And, Wardez, please don't include the bit where I get hit on. K thanks.

 

[HP]

Just finished a good conversation with Furi, ITCC_Andrew, Wardez and at the end, polarbear.

Concerns were addressed and ideas were explained in a much better environment.

I will be hosting another conversation tomorrow, details will be added to the OP.

A pity I missed that, I just got back from a 3400km drive-fest in the eastern part of Australia.

I should be right for the next meeting but I am uncertain as yet.

Regarding the skill tier being discussed I can offer some valuable input:

I have picked up a LOT of members in CRAP over the last 2 years (one just an hour ago) simply because we are a casual group without the pressures of the "big leagues" so to speak.

The new guy I picked up today said words to this effect: This is my first time online, I have been scared off by the seriousness of the hardcore racers and the fun ruining antics of the idiots.

Bang, instant member. He's already signed up and ready to go.

My group is a sort of stepping stone, though not by design, to more serious online racing and there are those that have gone on to other leagues after starting with CRAP when they had little or no experience.

I myself had no experience in the world of online racing and found that whenever I entered a room it was mostly either idiots in X1's hooning around or very accomplished drivers; there seemed to be no middle ground as finding a room with like minded people was a lottery with bad odds.

That was the catalyst for CRAP and we have been at it for 2 years this month which we call CRAPtober 👍

That group is the sole reason that GHH have competed, and performed well, in 2 online 24hr races; I owe it all to the fact that I could race against people in my in skill range and, more importantly, do so often which led me on to bigger and better things.

We can all wax lyrical about the benefits of which system is best but there is a clear benefit to be gained from having an entry level system in place for the guys and gals that need it.

I am happy to offer the CRAP group to be that stepping stone if required, hell we have been doing it for two years and we know best how to do it properly so if it is decided that a stepping stone is needed I have one ready to put in place .

Thanks for reading.

HP

 

[Oniichan]

Bam! Right there is what i am talking about. Cheers Heathenpride.

We need more if these to have online racing flourish. Official (and unofficial) GTP Leagues that cater to that market is what is required.

 

[jobyone]

I think there is a balancing act in getting new members to enjoy the racing. While I totally agree that you will learn more by racing people faster than you there is a point where the gap is so big that having racers closer to your speed will be better. It is no fun if someone is 5 seconds a lap faster than you. I would never want to turn someone away because they are slower but if after a few laps they get discouraged and just pull over it does not help anyone. I think it is better to try to get them in a league/series where they can be competitive. If they improve they can try the next division up.

Now a more casual series may not have this problem and if they could be distinguished as such they would be a great way to introduce people to online racing.

So perhaps we need a way to seperate the casual from the diehard series.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

All I'm saying is that you can't put ITCC on a skill level labeling system. I refuse it. I'm neither elitist, nor am I specific to beginners. Everyone with a decent internet connection and a decent grasp of the rules is allowed, bar none. We've welcomed beginners, and we've welcomed people who have raced in real life for decades.


If you try to label ITCC, I'm going to personally tell you to stop. It's not an elitist series, nor a beginner's series. It's an everyone's series, and so shall it remain indefinitely.

If you can follow the rules, and connect, you're welcome. Nothing shall change that.

 

[Zuel]

Your looking at it through the wrong angle. New drivers into online racing are not looking to come first. They are looking for competition on their same level so they can learn how to race against other drivers and not ai. They learn racing etiquette, how to follow series/league rules and so on. When they feel they have nothing more to learn they step up into intermediate where the drivers are slightly faster then them. Once they are comfortable and ready to push more they go to advanced. Its a stepping stone way of getting more skill.

Just throwing a guy who has never race in a series before with really fast guys isn't going to be good for all. Hence why alot of leagues have issues getting drivers due to the fact there is alot of drivers on GTP that want to race online but don't because they have no real entry point.

Hence why GTP should create official leagues for these drivers to step into the world of online racing. Nothing is stopping said driver from joining more hardcore racing leagues. It's all about giving options and providing an entry point to online racing for more people.

Not seeing what that link is meant to prove. I see 1 guy pulling out cause the racing isn't close enough. Which is what most people want in a series. Close racing. Not just for the guys at front but for everyone in the series. Something i've got down pat in the ORS. We have guys that are 1 second of the pace keeping up with the guys at the front due to my tier (division) system to help them progress.

I don't know why you are so against giving people options. How can it harm the community? I can only see positives as your giving new drivers a choice. They can choose to join a GTP beginner league or jump straight into the ITCC if they want. The people that run/host the GTP Beginner, Intermediate & Advance leagues would be like coaches/teachers helping them progress so they are not alone and left to fend for themselves. Also it helps them create friendships with other a more drivers, who in return will start series of their own due to the skills they learnt from the GTP Official leagues.

I'm on the same page with you on this. It's vital to have these foundations in place for the whole community. I just recently became friends with Rw a new comer to Grand Turismo and I talked him into joining the planet as well but let me get to my point. During the time we've ran together talking about driving, the race series I'm developing and it operates. I asked him if he'll join, he said "Yes" though the remark after that really shocked me due to the norm of a few new comers. Rwjarvis remark was "I would rather start in the feeder series and work my way up." I asked why. " I'm learning, I have a lot to learn"
I'll continue the rest later. I must get back to class.

 

[HP]

Bam! Right there is what i am talking about. Cheers Heathenpride.

We need more if these to have online racing flourish. Official (and unofficial) GTP Leagues that cater to that market is what is required.

Thanks mate 👍

I think there is a balancing act in getting new members to enjoy the racing. While I totally agree that you will learn more by racing people faster than you there is a point where the gap is so big that having racers closer to your speed will be better. It is no fun if someone is 5 seconds a lap faster than you. I would never want to turn someone away because they are slower but if after a few laps they get discouraged and just pull over it does not help anyone. I think it is better to try to get them in a league/series where they can be competitive. If they improve they can try the next division up.

Now a more casual series may not have this problem and if they could be distinguished as such they would be a great way to introduce people to online racing.

So perhaps we need a way to separate the casual from the diehard series.

I think the setup we have at CRAP would be perfect for this but as we are on our own forum there are restrictions on what we can and cannot promote here at GTP which is a direct result of the agreement I made with Jordan when we moved on to our new home.

That does not make it impossible though and there are many options which I am happy to explore. We have a thread here already but I am happy to expand on that with GTP only events and/or series that are not included in the CRAP site content on our forum. This means we can carry on doing what we do but also extend to be the stepping stone, or indeed one of many, on GTP, and be a valuable presence for the casual racer who needs it

All I'm saying is that you can't put ITCC on a skill level labeling system. I refuse it. I'm neither elitist, nor am I specific to beginners. Everyone with a decent internet connection and a decent grasp of the rules is allowed, bar none. We've welcomed beginners, and we've welcomed people who have raced in real life for decades.


If you try to label ITCC, I'm going to personally tell you to stop. It's not an elitist series, nor a beginner's series. It's an everyone's series, and so shall it remain indefinitely.

If you can follow the rules, and connect, you're welcome. Nothing shall change that.

This I also agree with 100%.

A casual group/league/spot race/whatever should be entirely for those who wish to participate. If a beginner wishes to leapfrog it and join a more advanced series then that should be OK and we would still be there if they find the going tough.

We have at least one 'alien' in our group and many very fast drivers the next level down and then we have even newer guys or those who don't race much as well.

Much as Andrew says above that he won't discriminate on ability neither do I, fast or slow are welcome in CRAP and we have a good mix of both

The fast guys like a break from the serious stuff sometimes and that's when they come to us, who am I to refuse them?

 

[TDZdave]

All I'm saying is that you can't put ITCC on a skill level labeling system. I refuse it. I'm neither elitist, nor am I specific to beginners. Everyone with a decent internet connection and a decent grasp of the rules is allowed, bar none. We've welcomed beginners, and we've welcomed people who have raced in real life for decades.


If you try to label ITCC, I'm going to personally tell you to stop. It's not an elitist series, nor a beginner's series. It's an everyone's series, and so shall it remain indefinitely.

If you can follow the rules, and connect, you're welcome. Nothing shall change that.

anyone from dirty nascar lobbies can be recruited to ITCC, skill level -18

 

[Zuel]

We need more if these to have online racing flourish. Official (and unofficial) GTP Leagues that cater to that market is what is required.

This is a must for the racing series within GTP to grow.

All I'm saying is that you can't put ITCC on a skill level labeling system. I refuse it. I'm neither elitist, nor am I specific to beginners. Everyone with a decent internet connection and a decent grasp of the rules is allowed, bar none. We've welcomed beginners, and we've welcomed people who have raced in real life for decades.


If you try to label ITCC, I'm going to personally tell you to stop. It's not an elitist series, nor a beginner's series. It's an everyone's series, and so shall it remain indefinitely.

If you can follow the rules, and connect, you're welcome. Nothing shall change that.

A casual group/league/spot race/whatever should be entirely for those who wish to participate. If a beginner wishes to leapfrog it and join a more advanced series then that should be OK and we would still be there if they find the going tough.

We have at least one 'alien' in our group and many very fast drivers the next level down and then we have even newer guys or those who don't race much as well.

Much as Andrew says above that he won't discriminate on ability neither do I, fast or slow are welcome in CRAP and we have a good mix of both

The fast guys like a break from the serious stuff sometimes and that's when they come to us, who am I to refuse them?

There is nothing wrong for a beginner to jump into an more advance series if they chose to. In some cases they'll settle and in others they won't. The matter is to prevent a situation or situations that wouldn't allow them to settle in. There are times when new drivers will become overwhelmed buy the skills and speed in a more advance series. Even if they do get pointers from the more advance drivers they still may make mistakes in their progress due to they're trying to keep pace with a more skilled driver.

In some cases that driver will use that as fuel to push themselves more to be faster which will have two results. 1. They'll get up to pace in a short time. 2. They'll push themselves to hard and then they'll pick up bad habits and make even more mistakes. In other cases the driver will see has their speed compared to the other is a hinder which will have two results. 1. They'll stay and push until they find that zone or mindset to be at to preform well. 2. Leave the series and hope around other until they find one that at their pace.

My point is we need a area for new or old drivers to better their skills besides in the more advance series. New drivers mainly though.

I disagree with thinking that newer drivers couldn't learn anything from being in a feeder series. Feeder series are teaching tools, a school and ever school has teachers. If you have the right type of teachers the new drivers will be able to move through at a steady pace get faster with out being overwhelmed .

 

[Oniichan]

It's like we are reading from the same book Zuel.

That is what i was trying to get across to people here.

 

[HP]

It's like we are reading from the same book Zuel.

That is what i was trying to get across to people here.

I agree completely also, there's also bucketloads of fun to be had for all concerned 👍

I'm happy to offer my services and group up to assist in any way possible

 

[Ph1sh]

Hello All! Manager here of TRL,

I have been reading this for awhile and been thinking about some possible ideas.

-My first idea that came to mind is what if the New GTP was somehow connected to gt6. As i have heard, that managing a league will be easier in GT6, And by being connected i mean if you are in a league race and the race finishes, i think it would be pretty cool if it transfers to the league thread in some...(Here comes the problem..how and where would it be transfered too) well im thinking Google Docs, as that has helped me a lot but putting in where each driver finishes.

-Also some suggestions go as if you are managing a league thread, of course we all want it clean and look very professional, i think it would be cool if you made the thread you should be able to edit some posts on your own so that it is cleaner. (For the league protection) Of course, there is supervisors here on GTP as well, which of course helps a lot.

-i saw somebody posted in this thread of color dots of what day they race on. totally onboard! Thats a great idea. 👍

-I have talked to many other league for use of permission to use in my league. And i do believe in the new GTP under clubs and leagues or where-ever it maybe, i think that before the whole new GTP goes out there should be a thread there saying all of the OLR Rules, and of course they have the right to choose weather to change it up. Some leagues had ideas before others. And before i created the new thread for turtle, i checked from many leagues making sure that i wasn't copying and i was being as unique as i can to attract new racers in. So i guess ask for permission to use rules could at least keep the "drama" down. Again, just a thought or a suggestion

-also, i think it shouldn't count as "characters" when editing your signature with like the counts as characters. i think it should just be letters counting for signatures giving more room for us. Just an suggestion as always.

- i dont know about the GTP app, and its future. but i guess i could say, when the new gtp goes out, make a new app to help us guide quickly on the run or some sort of Update for the app.

-Everyone elses ideas that I've read are great! Hoping to see them all Awesome idea guys

-Hope you enjoyed my input on this! Im glad you got this thread up! Thank you for the invite. Im sure not everything, maybe nothing will be on the new GTP, but im looking forward to it and im sure its going to be awesome!! Thanks Guys

-TRL League Director

-Ph1sher

 

[Zuel]

I apologize though I must press on the area of having a dedicated GT Planet racing body for new and old members alike. We have three well organized racing bodies within GTP, WRS, PURE, 3D3 Racing, all three of them started out a series an idea. Now they've grown into a well establish racing, with PURE being the first to be officially sponsored, which was shocking to a lot of the members. Now we have more racing series working to be a racing body instead of a series. In time though series organizers and directors won’t have time to tutor or coach new drivers with their series due to they’re along with the others working to grow that series to counter the mass amount of enters once GT Planet is flooded with new members. We all know too well that GTP will be flooded with new members soon after GT6 is released because GT Planet is the first stop for anything regarding the Grand Turismo heritage.

The one thing we must avoid in any of the top tier series is unnecessary issues and with an influx of new members that is a strong possibility. There is no reason to have any of the series go into fault just because of issues that drivers cause or come across. Yes we can remove that driver or drivers from the series and have more join after the season to fill the field. Though how do you know the next driver wouldn’t cause the same issues and you have to repeat the process. This is unnecessary time for the organizer, directors, marshals etc. I believe with the installment of GT6 the series within GT Planet will grow rapidly and we’ll have no chose but to restructure, evolve in order to grow. We should have started this process some time ago, though this is good timing in a whole.

We need members that will be willing to dedicate their series to form a GTP racing body. I’ve already gave a brief model of how my series works and I’ll be more than glad to dedicate mine.

 

[trustjab]

It's like we are reading from the same book Zuel.

That is what i was trying to get across to people here.

I said something about that before as well. For those who are beginners there could be a tier system of the racers/series. A simple level indication in the title? For instance, "[country flag of host] (intermediate level) (450-550pp) GTP Sunday Sports Car challenge" etc. in the title. 520-530pp sports car with moderate tuning blah blah.

 

[Zuel]

I must add this as well.

I noted before that my series required drivers to earn their licences in order to participate in the series. For instance you have a driver or drivers that wishes to join your series and you let them join. After some time you start to encounter some issues with the driver or drivers then your team or board and you must take action to rectify that issue and adjust or restructure a area so that issue does accrue again or reduce the reoccurring issues.

Now say that same driver or drivers are in or have gone through any of the GTP series and come to your series presenting a license that showed class, division etc. then you'll know for sure you'll encounter small issues instead of large ones. And the small issues I referring to are racing issues.

(intermediate level) (450-550pp) GTP Sunday Sports Car challenge" etc. in the title. 520-530pp sports car with moderate tuning blah blah.

This can work out fine if the same tuning formula that is used in GT5 doesn't flow over to GT6 due to the major influx in performance in the cars when you tune them in the current matter.

One of the reasons why it was difficult for my series to get a good base was due to I didn't allow any modifications to the motors or adding a larger turbo. It wasn't until the last few mouths I found a few people that have started running their race cars with out modifications to the motors and their street cars aren't built to the max then de-tuned. The racing has been even closer than before due to this.

 

[Zuel]

Having the ability to appoint moderators for the series thread would help in making changes. Not only one person can make changes, the series creator will have full control of the thread and the board could make changes to entries, points, standings, scheduling etc. It would make operations of the series a lot smoother.

 

[Furinkazen]

And collectively the FRL / ToCA as well...

 

[trustjab]

This can work out fine if the same tuning formula that is used in GT5 doesn't flow over to GT6 due to the major influx in performance in the cars when you tune them in the current matter.

One of the reasons why it was difficult for my series to get a good base was due to I didn't allow any modifications to the motors or adding a larger turbo. It wasn't until the last few mouths I found a few people that have started running their race cars with out modifications to the motors and their street cars aren't built to the max then de-tuned. The racing has been even closer than before due to this.

Im not talking about a set PP level for cars. I'm suggesting a category system for all "levels" of racing series. Just an example of a "level" of cars. Levels like 450-500pp 500-550pp 550-600pp etc. for a category that your series falls under. Then a skill level of the drivers. Beginner (new members etc.) Intermediate (experienced but not that fast) Veteran (has some racing series' experience) Professional (has numerous racing series' experience and/or wins/championships).

It doesnt have to be exactly that, but it could be something along those lines so racers know what they're getting into. Not every supergt series has to be guys with wheels that crush you nor novice racers. Something like that could help others know who they're up against.

 

[V8-Johnboy]

You will need to shout/scream over Furi i doubt you will get a word in edgeways.

 

[Zuel]

Im not talking about a set PP level for cars. I'm suggesting a category system for all "levels" of racing series. Just an example of a "level" of cars. Levels like 450-500pp 500-550pp 550-600pp etc. for a category that your series falls under. Then a skill level of the drivers. Beginner (new members etc.) Intermediate (experienced but not that fast) Veteran (has some racing series' experience) Professional (has numerous racing series' experience and/or wins/championships).

It doesnt have to be exactly that, but it could be something along those lines so racers know what they're getting into. Not every supergt series has to be guys with wheels that crush you nor novice racers. Something like that could help others know who they're up against.

I understood your reference to the pp, I found classing cars within a group pp instead of a set pp will produce a larger selection of car and a much tighter field. Drivers really have to work at pace instead of letting the car do all the work.

Knowing what skill level of the driver or drivers you're dealing with or allowing in a well structured series is vital because you can somewhat predict what that driver or drivers are capable of doing. Are they able to preform under pressure running a pack, in close quarters under heavy breaking will they be able to hit their marks correctly, will they turn into or push into another going through a turn. Know that information before hand is key I feel.

 

[snowgt]

Knowing what skill level of the driver or drivers you're dealing with or allowing in a well structured series is vital because you can somewhat predict what that driver or drivers are capable of doing. Are they able to preform under pressure running a pack, in close quarters under heavy breaking will they be able to hit their marks correctly, will they turn into or push into another going through a turn. Know that information before hand is key I feel.

I tend to agree to that. Having one driver that doesn't know at all what he's doing, can sabotage a whole race when he takes out other drivers and ruins their races and spoils their fun. Now, while I don't think there should be unnecessary barriers for new drivers to join racing series, you have to draw the line somewhere. I don't want to sound elitist, but if you have someone 5,6,7 seconds slower in the same car, it gets problematic. Having a ranking system helps race organizers to judge beforehand, if a driver might be "good enough" not to ruin their event, but ultimately it's up to them who they let in and give their spots to. If you don't know someone and have no other reference to go by, I guess you have to screen them in a practice session to be able to judge.

On the other hand, there would have to be some way to improve your ranking, and I'm afraid you can't make everyone run specific events as the only way to do so. It's the appropriate way for GTP-WRS, but I don't think for a more global ranking approach.

 

[Com Fox]

Would this mean we all have to WRS members?

Would I have to use PP to classify cars?

Would I be forced to follow a set a start and finish date and I won't be able to change it during the series?

Would I have to have a restriction on the drivers based on skill?