Official GTP Online Racing Discussion Thread

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Thank you!

It was brought up before here, but a little tag like in the motorsports section may be nice to have. Like the NASCAR series will have that at the end of the title, and the open wheel series would have a open wheel tag and so on.

That would help with knowing what type of series it is.

Yes it was.
When I first started looking into what type of series I wanted to join it was hard to decide which one due to they were spread all of the place instead of one section according tho that series type. Have tags or a series section would help out greatly. And a better way to show case them as well.
 
Then i think its pretty clear we've got the solution that will benefit and that is having sub categories in the main Online racing forum to help people sort through what they want to race in.

Ok onto the next topic of discussion.
 
Having the race report tied directly into the series thread will be helpful. The race reports could be in a scrolling window so it can be read with out cycling through the thread. A option within the user profile area would activate once they've started a series that would allow them to do updates to the race reports and have it post directly to the thread.
 
Yeah thats exactly what ill be doing for the ORS. It helps competitors feel more involved and apart of something. Rather then just another number to fill the room. Everyone wants to bring the feeling of a real racing series to the game.

Something I believe GTP needs to do as well. Be more then just a forum. Be a movement to starting a real sport of online racing. Similar to the MLG for FPS games.

I agree that GTP should do something of this fission. Give a more professional feel, it would also serve the same as a GTP_ tag.
 
Yeah agree with having a main forum with subs. Example of structure;

Main - Online Racing
Sub - NASCAR
- GT3
- LeMans
- One Makes
- Touring Cars

This will make it easier to sort through series you prefer to race in. The main Online forum could be used for interest check, spot races or even series that don't fit into a category.

I like the idea, but I feel like this will have one of two outcomes.

1. It's going to disconnect the series from each other to the point where you have multiple racing series going on in a night with no organization...

or

2. You're going to have only a very select group of racing series that will have a monopoly on racing by scheduling when they want to to prevent new series from starting up using new rules.

It's also a huge backwards step in my opinion. I want there to be fewer sub-categories of forums.
 
That's a nice alternate idea. So instead of making it like the Motorsports section, it would be more like the Other video games section.

"Other" would be replaced with "Online Events" Then the sub's would be divided up by the most popular series

I don't know if it lends itself to what we're trying to fix though, it could make the problem worse, dividing up the community even more. Remember, a majority of people are fickle when it comes to checking the forums, they don't like to click through multiple sub-forums and such like you and I would do. So at this point I'm still convinced streamlining the forums into as little sub-forums as possible would be the way to go. Using a tagging/label system to make threads and series content a lot easier to define at a glance.

These are the type of tags I'm thinking should be used, and not only just to point out what type of racing it's using either btw, it can be useful for lots of different things.
What I'm imagining is a dual tag system, so when you first start up a thread, you select from two drop down boxes, one is for series status, and the other is racing type. Here's just a few I've had in mind -

Series status:
Looking for drivers or Need drivers - Sign ups open - Sign ups closed - In progress - Postponed - Canceled - etc.

Series type:
- NASCAR - GT - Endurance - Spec Racing - Touring Cars - Open Wheel - Rally - Road Cars -Other - Clubs and Leagues - etc.


That does a lot of good for clearing up space in the thread titles in order to allow them to be more descriptive, letting drivers know exactly what the threads are about just at a glance, increasing the ability for organizers to promote their series and just making things easier.
 
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Series status:Looking for drivers or Need drivers - Sign ups open- Sign ups closed - In progress - Postponed - Canceled - etc.

Series type:
- NASCAR - GT - Endurance- Spec Racing- Touring Cars - Open Wheel - Rally Racing - Other - Clubs and Leagues - etc.
Alright Wardez stay out of my head. :lol:

Options in the user main page to make changes to the area in bold would make control of the series more convent. Would have to go to the thread to make a simple change.
 
Last week at Monza, the very same guy who was always struggling to get a top ten (turbo_snail) in the early rounds of the season scored a win - yes, win - against me in Round 5. Turbo_snail is learning a lot.

Team change and good setup helped a bit, all I needed was a good setup :D
 
Sorry for being late to the party, but thanks for the invite. I've skimmed over the previous posts and here's my take on what I've read so far. First, I would recommend staying away from any type of regimenting, regulating, or standardization. As long as variety is embraced and innovation is respected, a free-market system is the best way to ensure a high level of quality across the board. 👍

Secondly, I'm not sure why some are so keen to lower the "barrier to entry" of starting a new series. Do you really want a flood of new series that were spawned because wannabe directors finally felt that starting a new series was now "easy enough" to give it a try? I can easily see those series being abandoned once said directors realize how difficult and time-consuming running a legitimate series can be. Simply put, if someone doesn't have the skill, time, or inclination to put together an OP on their own, then they probably don't have the skill, time, or inclination to direct a race series. :indiff:

As for what I would recommend, it's really quite simply. Implement some sort of filtering system that new or current members can utilize to quickly and easily find a series "match". I've never used match.com, but I know that their members have to fill out a questionnaire in order for the website to suggest potential matches. Simply take that concept and apply it to GTPlanet's racing series. Some example questions could be:
  • What days of the week are you available to race? (Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc)
  • What time zone do you live in? (US Eastern, GMT-6, etc)
  • What time of the day would you like to race? (afternoon, early evening, late night, etc)
  • What kind of cars are you interested in racing? (Touring, NASCAR, Open-Wheel, etc)
  • Do you like to tune your cars or have the option to? (Yes, No)
  • What is your preferred race length? (Sprint, Endurance, etc)
  • What is your online racing experience/skill? (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, etc)
  • What type of racing are you looking for? (Casual, Competitive, etc)
  • How often can you commit to official races during a season? (Once a week, every other week, etc)

Each question above would have a drop down selection, and each answer would help determine how good of a fit a given race series would be for the new, prospective. or current member. Let's say there are ten questions on the questionnaire. If a race series matched all ten answers provided by the member, then that race series would be listed for that member as a "perfect match". If eight or nine of his answers were matched by one or more racing series, then those series would be listed as "potential matches", and so on and so on.

Basically, let software do the heavy lifting for potential series participants rather than forcing them to read through thread after thread trying to weed out the important info, then hope they stick around long enough to find what they're looking for. I don't know if GTPlanet's new software will be capable of such a filtering questionnaire, but if not, it could probably be done with a Google docs form. Simply make a sticky thread with a link to the form and give all racing directors the option of whether or not they want to participate in the questionnaire. If they do, they simply need to provide the document owner with the "answers" to the questionnaire that best match their series. Their answers will then be implemented into the form and they now how the potential to recruit any members who complete the questionnaire. :)

EDIT: If you'e not familiar with Google doc forms, there are a couple linked in the last line of my sig. Once the form is put together, filling it out is incredibly easy and fast. The majority of the work would be on the document owner(s), since they would have to update the document whenever a new series was formed (or one was completed).
 
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Sorry for being late to the party, but thanks for the invite. I've skimmed over the previous posts and here's my take on what I've read so far. First, I would recommend staying away from any type of regimenting, regulating, or standardization. As long as variety is embraced and innovation is respected, a free-market system is the best way to ensure a high level of quality across the board.

Secondly, I'm not sure why some are so keen to lower the "barrier to entry" of starting a new series. Do you really want a flood of new series that were spawned because wannabe directors finally felt that starting a new series was now "easy enough" to give it a try? I can easily see those series being abandoned once said directors realize how difficult and time-consuming running a legitimate series can be. Simply put, if someone doesn't have the skill, time, or inclination to put together an OP on their own, then they probably don't have the skill, time, or inclination to direct a race series.

One thing I've seen out of a lot of successful series is the tendency to have a few people assisting in the running and operation of said series. You can't simply lump every new member as a wannabe race director. Many of them may have the same drive that you have, but might not have the connections to help develop and create the good racing series they have in their head.

I don't want to see an influx of bad racing series anymore than you do, but I don't think it's fair that established members with groups supporting their series are allowed to flourish while a new member gets squeezed out because he's new.

And everyone has regimented calendars as it is right now, SNAIL especially. For racing series though, I was just recommending everyone work together to share drivers between seasons, to give drivers more opportunities to race in different series and events.

And as for the free market system, do you believe the community working together couldn't develop a set of rules that would be better than a team or two or three guys?

Just my thoughts on your comments, but I'm glad to hear your feedback! I'll add the matchmaking idea to the OP.
 
One thing I've seen out of a lot of successful series is the tendency to have a few people assisting in the running and operation of said series. You can't simply lump every new member as a wannabe race director. Many of them may have the same drive that you have, but might not have the connections to help develop and create the good racing series they have in their head.

I'm not lumping every new member as a wannabe race director, I'm simply warning against sugar-coating the very real and imposing responsibilities of running a quality race series. It's not for the faint of heart, so there's no reason to give anyone the wrong idea be spoon-feeding them a standardized OP format for them to simply "fill in the blanks".

I don't want to see an influx of bad racing series anymore than you do, but I don't think it's fair that established members with groups supporting their series are allowed to flourish while a new member gets squeezed out because he's new.

"Allowed" to flourish"? "Squeezed out"? I really don't get the impression that's what going on around here. If that were the case, I would have been squeezed out long ago. When I started SNAIL, it was more than a year after GT5 launched and I didn't know any other GTPlanet member. I can tell you wholeheartedly that I was not "squeezed out" because I was new. In fact, the opposite was true. If you ask me, success around here is earned, not "allowed". If a potential race director wants to have a successful series, the formula is pretty simple.. Be original, be organized, and be committed. Much easier said than done, but those factors far outweigh membership tenure IMO.

And everyone has regimented calendars as it is right now, SNAIL especially.

Nope, our race directors have complete freedom to schedule their races for whenever they want to. I simply wait to see what they decide on and then enter that information into our schedule. Nothing regimented about it.

And as for the free market system, do you believe the community working together couldn't develop a set of rules that would be better than a team or two or three guys?

Collaboration is great. 👍 Mandated regulations are not. 👎

Just my thoughts on your comments, but I'm glad to hear your feedback! I'll add the matchmaking idea to the OP.

Thanks for putting this together and inviting everyone to join in on the discussion. Hopefully some of the ideas proposed so far are able to stick and improve the experience here. After all, a successful and prosperous GTPlanet is what we're all after! :gtpflag:
 
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Problem-It can be difficult to keep a record of championship points, standings and penalties. Some use google documents, others post the information in the thread. Either way, it can get very confusing and time consuming for series organisers and racers.

Solution-Create some sort or table system(similar to excel) that can be used in the opening post of a series. This would mean that all of the point tables, standings and penalties will be in one location, this gets rid of the need for annoying hyperlinks or messy typed up points tables.

A calculating tier system would be a great addition to this, all the points would be totaled through out a season and once the end of the season arrives it will give the champion of the series. It could also include a manufactures slot as well.
 
I'm not lumping every new member as a wannabe race director, I'm simply warning against sugar-coating the very real and imposing responsibilities of running a quality race series. It's not for the faint of heart, so there's no reason to give anyone the wrong idea be spoon-feeding them a standardized OP format for them to simply "fill in the blanks".

But what if we made it easier for them to run a racing series in general? Instead of sugar coating something that's difficult, we make it less difficult? Make it easier to commit the time to and more enjoyable.


"Allowed" to flourish"? "Squeezed out"? I really don't get the impression that's what going on around here. If that were the case, I would have been squeezed out long ago. When I started SNAIL, it was more than a year after GT5 launched and I didn't know any other GTPlanet member. I can tell you wholeheartedly that I was not "squeezed out" because I was new. In fact, the opposite was true. If you ask me, success around here is earned, not "allowed". If a potential race director wants to have a successful series, the formula is pretty simple.. Be original, be organized, and be committed. Much easier said than done, but those factors far outweigh membership tenure IMO.

Indeed, success is earned and not allowed as it stands right now. But I don't see why that can't change. Why must we boil members down to only the die-hard participants? Why not make it easy enough for more casual members to participate and grow them into die-hards?

I also got the impression from discussion in this thread that a few members worked together to plan their schedules around each other's. I don't know how open they would be to adding new members into the rotation, specifically when they said they didn't want to have to share their time with them (granted, that was in reference to a member with no OP skills).

And ultimately, the goal would be to teach new members what the formula is. What if there was a member who was ready to work hard, put in the time, and race his series, but he didn't think he needed a nice OP Thread to pull it off? Now his ideas, his drive, are all wasted because he didn't receive any attention.

The calendar also answers the questions. I tried to start two series, and they never made it past the interest check section (something that, if merged together with the Racing Series section, would make a world of improvement in general), because I kept over-thinking everything. "Do I launch when the drivers come? Or do I wait until I have a few drivers before I can launch?" There was no resource for me to go to, there was no one there offering me a helping hand, so I succumbed to my nerves and let the idea fade away.

It's what inspired me to suggest the Block system. Put your idea there. The drivers will eventually be available. If they don't come, it means you've got work to do, as your series wasn't interesting enough to attract them. It doesn't guarantee you drivers for a series anymore than the open system does now.

Nope, our race directors have complete freedom to schedule their races for whenever they want to. I simply wait to see what they decide on and then enter that information into our schedule. Nothing regimented about it.

I simply meant that you have regular events on Monday's, Wednesday's, Saturday's and Sunday's. That just seemed regimented to me.


Collaboration is great. 👍 Mandated regulations are not. 👎

Indeed, I don't know where you got the impression that these would be mandated, though. It's been stated specifically that many of these ideas would be available, not mandated.


Thanks for putting this together and inviting everyone to join in on the discussion. Hopefully some of the ideas proposed so far are able to stick and improve the experience here. After all, a successful and prosperous GTPlanet is what we're all after! :gtpflag:

Indeed! The difficulty is figuring out how to find common ground, as we all have different definitions of what it takes to make GTPlanet successful and prosperous.
 
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Having the option to recycle a thread if the organizers decides to reformat the series or completely rebuild. The race series section currently has 4811 threads, an 138 pages listing.
Edit- addition

Recycling the thread as in removing unnecessary post so the thread can start over fresh. I don't know of a option of this fashion within the threads. Furinkazen
 
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Zuel
Having the option to recycle a thread if the organizers decides to reformat the series or completely rebuild. The race series section currently has 4811 threads, an 138 pages listing.

That's already solely series organises decision. WEC did that.
 
Wow, looks like a few people are taking this way too seriously. Lighten up, this is just a game.

I cant believe people want to split drivers up based on ability. Don't forget you will probably be splitting friends up, too and that's the reason I play Gran Turismo. Why would I want to race in a series if my friends have been placed in a different division? That would suck.
 
Wow, looks like a few people are taking this way too seriously. Lighten up, this is just a game.

I cant believe people want to split drivers up based on ability. Don't forget you will probably be splitting friends up, too and that's the reason I play Gran Turismo. Why would I want to race in a series if my friends have been placed in a different division? That would suck.

Completely agree, thats what we have tried to do in the WEC... I feel that it is more of a community now than a racing series as all the guys (and girls) really get on well they have a laugh off track but its all serious on track and thats the way it should be. I would never not allow someone into my series because they were not that good at driving, Yes we have a strict penalty system but from what I have seen drivers grow evolve into pretty good drivers with that system.
 
Wow, looks like a few people are taking this way too seriously. Lighten up, this is just a game.

I cant believe people want to split drivers up based on ability. Don't forget you will probably be splitting friends up, too and that's the reason I play Gran Turismo. Why would I want to race in a series if my friends have been placed in a different division? That would suck.

Is it really unbelievable? You know every sport or anything competitive at all has the same dichotomy. There's always going to be hardcore and casual. There's absolutely no way to make a blanket set of recommended features to cover both, that's why each side needs its representatives and unique toolsets.

This discussion aims to cover both, so you don't have to try and point out things that are wrong by you, it's just a forum for opinion.

That's like going into a sporting event and being like, " Man why are they cheering when our team misses the goal?!"

What you're talking about is definitely important, it comes down to two different types of players: those that just want to race with friends or have the sole goal of making new ones and those that only want to challenge themselves and get better, no matter who they race with.

I'm in the latter camp, but we have plenty of guys that are in the former. Both sides have their issues that need to be addressed and I'm all about helping both sides realize them. No need at all to split ourselves up.

And again, try thinking more broadly, giving your personal opinion on what your ideal type of racing is, but try and think from my perspective of wanting to race people much faster than myself constantly and be on an extremely level playing field when it comes to reg's and BoP.

Getting into those "shoes" and trying to figure out ways to improve things for that side of things brings in a totally fresh perspective from you, it's a really valuable asset to have when people do it.

I'm not lumping every new member as a wannabe race director, I'm simply warning against sugar-coating the very real and imposing responsibilities of running a quality race series. It's not for the faint of heart, so there's no reason to give anyone the wrong idea be spoon-feeding them a standardized OP format for them to simply "fill in the blanks".

I think it's important to promote as many racing series as humanly possible. That's always been one of my biggest aims. I mean, hell, I was the one that motivated Brandon to get started with the Cappuccino Cup series. I could've ran it myself but I would've much rather encouraged someone new to take up the challenge rather than just make everything myself.

It breeds inspiration and innovation. That's the return profit you get from encouraging anyone and everyone to start a series that's even half-way interested in doing it. I learned a lot from different series and organizers I've helped get kicked off and the lessons taken away from that are just priceless. It's an investment the whole community could benefit from. That's why I'm so adamant about creating an exhaustive index of all the new series that are gonna be popping up for GT6 here. Not only to collect data and evaluate trends and all that, but also to keep track of who's making moves, what works, what doesn't, and reaching out to series owners through it, in a much more familiarized state. That way we can bounce success off of each other and just create an awesome stew of prosperity and constant advancement. If that means a few guys are going to make series that are gonna crash and burn, let it be. Whether we do this or not, people will fail, some really hard. Some, so hard it'll even turn them off to the idea of making a series forever. That's a risk that's definitely worth taking though, because even if it was that for every hundred failed series, one incredible series came out of it, that's more than worth it from where I'm looking.

"Allowed" to flourish"? "Squeezed out"? I really don't get the impression that's what going on around here. If that were the case, I would have been squeezed out long ago. When I started SNAIL, it was more than a year after GT5 launched and I didn't know any other GTPlanet member. I can tell you wholeheartedly that I was not "squeezed out" because I was new. In fact, the opposite was true. If you ask me, success around here is earned, not "allowed". If a potential race director wants to have a successful series, the formula is pretty simple.. Be original, be organized, and be committed. Much easier said than done, but those factors far outweigh membership tenure IMO.

He was just saying he wants to avoid that sentiment cropping up, not that it's happened at all.

Nope, our race directors have complete freedom to schedule their races for whenever they want to. I simply wait to see what they decide on and then enter that information into our schedule. Nothing regimented about it.

I think he's talking just about your Sunday series, which runs every Sunday. So regimented! haha

Collaboration is great. 👍 Mandated regulations are not. 👎

No one's ever suggested mandatory regulations at all. Only a base set of recommended reg's people could copy and paste if they so desired. But I definitely agree. Collaboration's great here.

Thanks for putting this together and inviting everyone to join in on the discussion. Hopefully some of the ideas proposed so far are able to stick and improve the experience here. After all, a successful and prosperous GTPlanet is what we're all after! :gtpflag:

Definitely man. Every week we're going to be evaluating the contents of the threads and submitting summaries to Jordan and the OLR and WRS officials for digestion and to get some good discourse going. You'll definitely the most popular and reasonable ideas being taken seriously and hopefully implemented.
 
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I like the idea, but I feel like this will have one of two outcomes.

1. It's going to disconnect the series from each other to the point where you have multiple racing series going on in a night with no organization...

I'm not following you. How is having them sorted into different sub categories going to change how things are now?

Example. The ORS rotates its seasons. 1 season will be a 1 make the next will be a GT (GT3) series, next a one make again so on and so forth.

Therefore i'd make a post under the "one make" sub forum about my new season. As would anyone else that is doing a one make season. Next season i'm starting a GT3 series so i would make a new post under the "GT3" sub forum. ITTC would make a post under "Touring Cars" so on and so forth.

Anyone that wants to start a particular series under a certain category will post in that sub forum. This gives new people ease of searching through series they want to race in rather then how it is now where you have to click through each one.

2. You're going to have only a very select group of racing series that will have a monopoly on racing by scheduling when they want to to prevent new series from starting up using new rules.

It's also a huge backwards step in my opinion. I want there to be fewer sub-categories of forums.

Not following the monopoly. Say ITTC have a season up. Its currently full. Nothing is stopping someone from opening a new one at the same or different time. ITTC doesn't run every single day of the week. Also there is a LARGE userbase on GTP. It's not like ITTC has everyone locked down. Some drivers prefer not to join ITTC cause its "too hardcore" to them. So if someone sets up a series using standardized rules "OLR" for example.

It's not a step backwards. The way it is now having everything unsorted is being backwards. Your not splitting up series into categories which make it harder for people to find what particular category they prefer. Its about making things easier for drivers to find.

share drivers between seasons, to give drivers more opportunities to race in different series and events.

This is something i do not understand. Nobody is forcing their drivers to be exclusive to a certain series. A driver that joins a particular series wants to because that's what they are looking for. Starting a different series with different cars doesn't mean they will suddenly flock to it if they have no interest. Every competitor has their own free will to decide what they want to do.

Maybe i'm just miss reading what your trying to get across.

__________________________________________________

Totally forgot to post one of my suggestions to help make it easier for drivers to sort through forum posts.

I'm sure many of you have been on other forums for different games, hobbies etc. Some forums use Icons that can be added to the topic title. These come in the form of thumbs up, smiley faces etc. How about you take that idea and use the following. Make flags for different regions. Which you already have in place now under members usernames.

Now when a organiser creates a series. They select from a flag USA (if USA Only), World Map (International, JPN (Japan only) etc. This way people know that series is only for that region. Add that in addition to the other ideas people gave for thread titles.
 
A series doesn't have to be region locked. Mine have had racers from UK, Europe, USA, and Australia.

@Wardez. You already have the PURE group who are incredibly fast as an example, yet other series have a mix.

Still maintaining the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach".
EDIT. Also noticed none of my suggestions have been added to OP...
 
A series doesn't have to be region locked. Mine have had racers from UK, Europe, USA, and Australia.

@Wardez. You already have the PURE group who are incredibly fast as an example, yet other series have a mix.

Still maintaining the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach".
EDIT. Also noticed none of my suggestions have been added to OP...

Not saying it has to be region locked. I'm saying if you as the organizer create a series but only want it for a particular region you pick that flag. If you want it to be international for all drivers you pick the World icon. Get it?

It's a way of visually making a series more visible to that particular driver looking for that particular type of series.

Here is a visual aid.

Example_zps0bcb0ca0.jpg
 
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Oniichan
Not saying it has to be region locked. I'm saying if you as the organizer create a series but only want it for a particular region you pick that flag. If you want it to be international for all drivers you pick the World icon. Get it?

It's a way of visually making a series more visible to that particular driver looking for that particular type of series.

That makes a little more sense. I also like the tagging idea for different types of racing...
 
I'm not following you. How is having them sorted into different sub categories going to change how things are now?

Example. The ORS rotates its seasons. 1 season will be a 1 make the next will be a GT (GT3) series, next a one make again so on and so forth.

Therefore i'd make a post under the "one make" sub forum about my new season. As would anyone else that is doing a one make season. Next season i'm starting a GT3 series so i would make a new post under the "GT3" sub forum. ITTC would make a post under "Touring Cars" so on and so forth.

Anyone that wants to start a particular series under a certain category will post in that sub forum. This gives new people ease of searching through series they want to race in rather then how it is now where you have to click through each one.

See my explanation for that here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8881394#post8881394

Not following the monopoly. Say ITTC have a season up. Its currently full. Nothing is stopping someone from opening a new one at the same or different time. ITTC doesn't run every single day of the week. Also there is a LARGE userbase on GTP. It's not like ITTC has everyone locked down. Some drivers prefer not to join ITTC cause its "too hardcore" to them. So if someone sets up a series using standardized rules "OLR" for example.

It's not a step backwards. The way it is now having everything unsorted is being backwards. Your not splitting up series into categories which make it harder for people to find what particular category they prefer. Its about making things easier for drivers to find.

I also address this problem in the post I linked to above, but I can expand a bit more on it here.

Imo we should want to avoid the further compartmentalization of the Online Events section. Right now the sorting is set by group categories or type in order to keep like-minded communities around each other. It worked well for allowing established entities and ideas to have their proper placement, but wasn't conducive to spreading more interest from new drivers. It created gulfs and that's what I would want to sidestep this time around. I could be wrong though, you definitely have an interesting proposition, I would love to hear many more opinions and theory on this.

This is something i do not understand. Nobody is forcing their drivers to be exclusive to a certain series. A driver that joins a particular series wants to because that's what they are looking for. Starting a different series with different cars doesn't mean they will suddenly flock to it if they have no interest. Every competitor has their own free will to decide what they want to do.

Maybe i'm just miss reading what your trying to get across.

Yeah, I'm thinking he just meant that it would happen naturally if there was more cohesion between series.

Totally forgot to post one of my suggestions to help make it easier for drivers to sort through forum posts.

I'm sure many of you have been on other forums for different games, hobbies etc. Some forums use Icons that can be added to the topic title. These come in the form of thumbs up, smiley faces etc. How about you take that idea and use the following. Make flags for different regions. Which you already have in place now under members usernames.

Now when a organiser creates a series. They select from a flag USA (if USA Only), World Map (International, JPN (Japan only) etc. This way people know that series is only for that region. Add that in addition to the other ideas people gave for thread titles.

Yeah that's a nice idea, but it depends on how the upgraded GTP is going to look like, they may end up getting rid of those topic markers all together. If the new topic system has a tagging system included, kind of like with Youtube videos, that would be great as well (as long as it's not abusable too much). That way, topic/series creators could tag up the thread with everything needed to make searching easier.

But with my labeling proposal (what's called a prefix on GTP on places like the Marketplace and Motorsport forum) all it would take to sort into one specific type of racing you're looking for is one click and you're taken directly to a list of all the threads you're looking for, and all in the same one place.

A series doesn't have to be region locked. Mine have had racers from UK, Europe, USA, and Australia.

@Wardez. You already have the PURE group who are incredibly fast as an example, yet other series have a mix.

Still maintaining the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach".
EDIT. Also noticed none of my suggestions have been added to OP...

Don't quite get what you mean by that. We're not the only group who's like that, there's more, but not enough. We don't want to be the only ones.
 
Is it really unbelievable? You know every sport or anything competitive at all has the same dichotomy. There's always going to be hardcore and casual. There's absolutely no way to make a blanket set of recommended features to cover both, that's why each side needs its representatives and unique toolsets.

I just think it's an elitist approach to what appears to be a problem that doesn't really exist. In actual sport thats fair, but not in a game.

This discussion aims to cover both, so you don't have to try and point out things that are wrong by you, it's just a forum for opinion.
That's like going into a sporting event and being like, " Man why are they cheering when our team misses the goal?!"

... And that is my opinion.

What you're talking about is definitely important, it comes down to two different types of players: those that just want to race with friends or have the sole goal of making new ones and those that only want to challenge themselves and get better, no matter who they race with.

I'm in the latter camp, but we have plenty of guys that are in the former. Both sides have their issues that need to be addressed and I'm all about helping both sides realize them. No need at all to split ourselves up.

What you don't seem to be taking into consideration is there are people who enjoy serious racing, who want to go for race wins/championships etc... but want to do it in a chilled out atmosphere with their mates.

And again, try thinking more broadly, giving your personal opinion on what your ideal type of racing is, but try and think from my perspective of wanting to race people much faster than myself constantly and be on an extremely level playing field when it comes to reg's and BoP.

My ideal type of racing is primarily with people I enjoy having a laugh with, who also enjoy taking the racing seriously. Luckily I'm in a series with people exactly like that.


Getting into those "shoes" and trying to figure out ways to improve things for that side of things brings in a totally fresh perspective from you, it's a really valuable asset to have when people do it.

Yeah I'm just not that sort of person.
 
I just think it's an elitist approach to what appears to be a problem that doesn't really exist. In actual sport thats fair, but not in a game.

Well, I see it as both depending on the arena if you know what I mean. It's not elitist, it's just being flexible. It seems elitist because I'm trying to address the issues of the type of online racing that sees themselves as a sport (takes things seriously and strictly) but I'm never going to ignore what's important to the other side that sees it just as a game. There's lots of problems on both sides to consider, but not all of them are crucial to making progress of course. Progress being getting more people racing.

... And that is my opinion.

Sorry, I just realized you're only coming from a driver's perspective. I was coming at you as if you were a series organizer. Forget what I said! xD

What you don't seem to be taking into consideration is there are people who enjoy serious racing, who want to go for race wins/championships etc... but want to do it in a chilled out atmosphere with their mates.

My ideal type of racing is primarily with people I enjoy having a laugh with, who also enjoy taking the racing seriously. Luckily I'm in a series with people exactly like that.

I'm definitely taking that into account, you're talking about Club style racing. That's another issue we have to talk about. Whether Clubs need their own section, or could do with just being labeled with prefixes or otherwise sorted into one main Online Racing section. Either that, or Spot races keeps its own section, but it's only reserved for people looking to join spur of the moment public rooms. Well planned one off races, I think, could be bundled in with the rest into one place.

But on the side, you think people in serious leagues looking for big challenges are just racing with straight faces on the whole time? We're pretty much the same, we're just more competitive, and we don't get to have as much time to get to know eachother, that's pretty much it.

Yeah I'm just not that sort of person.

Doesn't hurt to try and put yourself in the mindset from time to time. It's not an ability you need to have, people do it all the time, it's natural. I just want to point out that I've had people solve problems for me I was stumped on that came from the outside like that. It's a great asset.
 
I understand Ross (a regular of mine), and Wardez viewpoints having driven in a number of series. I think what Ross is trying to say is he likes competitive hard racing, but also the fun factor.

For example the Sunday WSC Ross races in it's deadly serious and close (He won his class by 0.3 seconds after 2hrs 40 in changeable weather at Nurb), but at same time we have a laugh, people making a few jokes, we take turns commentating on each others quali sessions... And we won't lose it.

It ends up being a question of target audience. Wardez, correct me if I'm wrong but you always seem to want the fastest most serious racers for competition, and for organisation of those things you guys have it down to fine art,.

Yet for example with me I cater for those who want to go fast, but I welcome other drivers of different ability as it gives them chances to race in a friendly environment. (and I'm not saying PURE guys don't have fun either)

End of the day, on a series organiser side its down to what kind of racing and racers you want. On a driving side its finding the format that's fits you.
 
We need to focus on accessibility for new members. Don't make it easier to create OPs. We should do the opposite. The series director should designate the nationalities whose timezones are being aimed for in the series, the type of racing (sprint, touring cars) and the day in making the OP; a standardized OP checklist/informational heading..


Then, as I said before, people can search by cars. "I want to drive a BMW touring car. I'll search for a BMW touring car. Oh, ITCC has one! I'll join that."


Whether they search by day/time, car, racing type etc. They'll all find what they're looking for. It's been my idea the whole time. You can/should let everyone have their own OP, but look at how YouTube creates search engine results by asking the uploader to post tags. Someone might post a WRC video and put WRC in the tags. Then, when someone searches for a WRC video, it's not full of cats chasing lasers, but it's actually full of WRC.
 
@Furi
Spot on, creating these definitions and functions will definitely make it easier for people to be pointed in the right direction in the future, can only be good!

@Andrew
Why should we make it harder to create series? Since you're saying we should do the opposite.
Seems like you're suggesting that only a privileged few should have rights to create series. Not saying you are, just comes across like that.

And about the Youtube tag problem, yeah, definitely aware of that, which is why I suggested it should be designed against abuse like that. I'm not trying to give mod's way more work than they already have, any system that's implemented to help prevent or deter that sort of abuse where people go crazy with tags or labels needs to be passive. So something as simple as limiting tags to be selected among pre-made ones, or just limiting the number of tags possible to under 8 or so.
 

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