Ovals VS Road Courses

[WolfRacer543]

Many people in Europe talks about Nascar without any idea, they think Nascar is boring, but i think Nascar is the best competition, at least, in Nascar, every driver can win, and in F1, only three or four.

I know I responded to this already, but since then I noticed some more info. In 2009 there were 6 different winners in F1 and 12 in NASCAR (may have miscounted, correct me if I'm wrong, I just counted by hand), but NASCAR has around twice as many drivers and twice as many races. So saying every driver in NASCAR has a chance to win when in F1 they dont isn't really accurate. The racing is closer time-wise on an oval simply because there's more time to gained and lost on a road course, but at the end of the day the same drivers are at the front regardless (with a few others randomly mixed in to the regulars).

 

[Sam48]

At Daytona and Talladega, it's more like 1st to 43rd- 1.2 seconds

that's a bit of an exaggeration. 43 cars 1st to 43rd, I would say more like 3sec. Still pretty close though. But that's only during restarts, or the start. After a while some cars tend to break off and get lapped.

 

[djanikowski]

I know I responded to this already, but since then I noticed some more info. In 2009 there were 6 different winners in F1 and 12 in NASCAR (may have miscounted, correct me if I'm wrong, I just counted by hand), but NASCAR has around twice as many drivers and twice as many races. So saying every driver in NASCAR has a chance to win when in F1 they dont isn't really accurate. The racing is closer time-wise on an oval simply because there's more time to gained and lost on a road course, but at the end of the day the same drivers are at the front regardless (with a few others randomly mixed in to the regulars).

If you don't include exhibition races, 13 different drivers won in 2009, and if you include exhibition races, there were 15 winners. I'm not trying to argue your point, just giving you the correct facts.

that's a bit of an exaggeration. 43 cars 1st to 43rd, I would say more like 3sec. Still pretty close though.

Yeah, I know, all 43 cars never finish the race either.

 

[Northstar]

I know I responded to this already, but since then I noticed some more info. In 2009 there were 6 different winners in F1 and 12 in NASCAR (may have miscounted, correct me if I'm wrong, I just counted by hand), but NASCAR has around twice as many drivers and twice as many races. So saying every driver in NASCAR has a chance to win when in F1 they don't isn't really accurate. The racing is closer time-wise on an oval simply because there's more time to gained and lost on a road course, but at the end of the day the same drivers are at the front regardless (with a few others randomly mixed in to the regulars).

There was actually 14(Would have been 15 if not for JPM's pit crew). I would say though only the top 20 or so actually have a shot at winning.

 

[lilcat89]

Id say more like the top 25 or 30. Any given sunday.

 

[LSX]

At Daytona or Talladega in particular, ANYONE really can win. But that's due to it being a race just to finish, not just a race to win. Look at Brad K, that was a ride just for experience and he won it.

Why is everyone arguing F1 vs Nascar? They both are great at two different things. They are what they are, one is the pinnacle of technology and innovation and is exciting. The other is the pinnacle of doing a whole lot without a whole lot of technology with some of the closest racing you can ask for, and its just as exciting.

This is not comparing blonds and brunettes, this is like trying to compare Dog's and Cat's, yeah four legs and furry, but that's about the end of the similarity.

 

[Earth]

And what I don't understand is people who lash out because people dislike NASCAR. I think it's incredibly boring to watch and just as boring to play in a game, in fact I think all oval racing is boring in a game. I have more fun with road courses, and even a poorly laid out road course is more fun than an oval to race on in my opinion. I think it's probably safe to say that a majority of GTP's GT owners and users would share that same sentiment based on forum topics.

Many who have not had a proper oval race. There have been many all roadcourse drivers transfer to oval heavy series like NASCAR and Indycar and they have been vocal about how they enjoy the ovals. While most if not all still prefer road courses as it is their background they hardly found the ovals boring.

Nigel Mansell said the Indy 500 was one of the most enjoyable races he's had in his entire (previously all road racing) career

But still there will be those who just cannot stand ovals no matter what. There has to be at least one right turn. I dont understand this, but OK.

If people hate ovals, NASCAR, whatever then I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to voice their opinions.

They can voice their opinions. However comments that are flamebait or troll like are not needed and I'm sure both sides dont like them. My rant a few posts back was a bit out of line, but notice it had reasoning behind it and was not a simple one liner flamebait. I wasn't calling Formula 1 as a whole boring but the racing quality of Silverstone. A response to the guy who thought any roadcourse could sell 500,000 tickets.

Also, NASCAR is not my beloved motorsport. I defend it, yes, however as I said earlier I am a motorsport fan. The reason it appears I hate F1, which I obviously dont as I watch it rather consistently, is as I noted earlier the arrogance of the clowns who run it and some of it's fans and drivers. Notice how alot of people dont like Lewis Hamilton that much after his arrogant comments recently. Arrogance can turn people off. But on the other side of the coin you have NASCAR whose fans, drivers and media people in general are only praise other series like F1 and Indycar.

Also F1 can be to me, sorry, compared to the Jonas brothers, Britney Spears, etc. They themselves are not that bad nor are they that great but are extremely loved and popular because they are the flashiest, most glamourous thing out there. It's not cool or popular to say you like NASCAR, but its cool and popular to say you like F1 so alot of people do that even though its highly unlikely they follow the series anywhere near as closely as I do! A bit off topic but I do not hate F1. I understand that because its such a technology and innovation driven series that runs on mostly poorly designed road circuits with clowns running it that penalize the drivers for any contact with each other the racing will suffer, but nethertheless I still watch because of the technology and innovation.

At Daytona or Talladega in particular, ANYONE really can win. But that's due to it being a race just to finish, not just a race to win. Look at Brad K, that was a ride just for experience and he won it.

Why is everyone arguing F1 vs Nascar? They both are great at two different things. They are what they are, one is the pinnacle of technology and innovation and is exciting. The other is the pinnacle of doing a whole lot without a whole lot of technology with some of the closest racing you can ask for, and its just as exciting.

This is not comparing blonds and brunettes, this is like trying to compare Dog's and Cat's, yeah four legs and furry, but that's about the end of the similarity.

Great post.

Can someone please explain what is so bad about an oval? I thought those who like racing are competitive and want to beat the other driver no matter how the track looks like, whether its a roadcourse, oval, or drag strip.

 

[Ferrari Modena]

If there are only 20+ locations with variations, I doubt there are more ovals than what we know about: Daytona and Indianapolis.

That doesn't seem like enough to support a full fledged NASCAR series, but I don't want them sacrificing more road courses for another oval.

 

[IsmokeGT]

And you just did the same thing.



Look, I'm not defending F1, I don't like it, but I think it's ridiculous to say that people need to see the error in their ways when saying NASCAR is boring and then in the very next breathe someone calls F1 boring.

Well, I said it kind of as a joke, sort of sarcastic. Besides that, I watch F1 a lot. I've watched it for a long time. Honestly, I prefer qualifying over the race most of the time. But I love anything with motors, so I love it all, boring or not.

 

[Nattefrost]

Can someone please explain what is so bad about an oval? I thought those who like racing are competitive and want to beat the other driver no matter how the track looks like, whether its a roadcourse, oval, or drag strip.

Some people just don't like them, end of. There's no rule that states if you like competitive racing you have to like any sort of circuit. Some people just like varied cornering.

 

[BolgOfThe North]

I don't see any point in having more than one oval circuit since the differences between them are so minimal and its pretty much only Americans that are interested in Nascar & Indy racing.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Can someone please explain what is so bad about an oval? I thought those who like racing are competitive and want to beat the other driver no matter how the track looks like, whether its a roadcourse, oval, or drag strip.

There's nothing "bad about an oval" it's more a matter of personal taste. Racing on an oval involves a completely different skillset to racing on a road-track. It's like comparing apples and oranges. There's nothing wrong with apples it's just that some people don't like them.

Personally I prefer the road-courses. I prefer them to oval tracks and I also prefer them to rally tracks and drag strips.

Problem is for every rally track, oval and drag strip they include in the game that means that less of the in-game tracks are of the type I want to play on and more of the game becomes useless to me. If GT5 were to end up with 30 nascar ovals, a couple of famous drag strips and all the current WRC calendar and Suzuka. I wouldn't buy it.

Extreme example I admit but every step toward that makes the game less appealing to me.

I also like finishing video games - always have, even ones like Gran-turismo. So every oval or drag strip you need to finish to get gold trophies for every event just makes it more boring for me.

This is the reason I wish GT the game had stuck to GT the sport. If you want to play nascar then buy a nascar game, if you want to play rally then get a rally game, F1 - F1 and so on ...

This "one size fits all" business will get old real quick. GT6 with hovercraft and powerboating anyone?

 

[IsmokeGT]

Some people just don't like them, end of. There's no rule that states if you like competitive racing you have to like any sort of circuit. Some people just like varied cornering.

I completely agree. I would also add, some people like varied circuits, as well as varied corners. Since I enjoy road courses, with varied turns, and I enjoy Ovals, because I like varied circuits also, it is looking like I will enjoy GT5 more than anyone who despises ovals. It must suck to be them right now!

Call it boring, hate it until you die, and you won't see me blink because I'll be going 200mph door to door with Earth.

Let me reiterate how much I, and Earth, will enjoy the ENTIRE GT5 experience, road course and ovals included.
I am glad all you whiners have to pay for content you hate.

 

[djanikowski]

enjoy the ENTIRE GT5 experience, road course and ovals included.

Exactly, now there will be 1 game that has NASCAR, road courses, and production cars instead of having all of that in 3 different games right now.

 

[LSX]

I don't see any point in having more than one oval circuit since the differences between them are so minimal and its pretty much only Americans that are interested in Nascar & Indy racing.

Late to the party?

Call it boring, hate it until you die, and you won't see me blink because I'll be going 200mph door to door with Earth AND LSX.

Duh. or fixed, whichever way you want to look at it.

Edit: That is of course provided there aren't any yahoo's out there just to wreck cars. I played Daytona oval online just the other night and it was infuriating! Getting hit in the side while going straight, people rocketing into you as you head into the corners. It was a joke, really, not a funny one though. And the closure rate in the draft was insane, people coming from so far back only to hit you going 10-15mph faster than you. Does not end up well... Woo-Hoo for private rooms.

It's not cool or popular to say you like NASCAR, but its cool and popular to say you like F1 so alot of people do that even though its highly unlikely they follow the series anywhere near as closely as I do!

That's probably not far from the truth.

As if Nascar is the only oval racing series, and of course, no other series in the world but F1 races on road courses. It's funny how F1 won't even be properly represented in GT5, yet it's being used to argue against Nascar which is? Argue Nascar against Super GT or just GT cars, that's at least relevant as there will be at least more than two of those kinds of cars included. Though that's just speculation...

 

[Exorcet]

This "one size fits all" business will get old real quick. GT6 with hovercraft and powerboating anyone?

If PD could do it without wrecking the rest of the game, go for it.

Sure, having NASCAR, etc, might take away from what else could have been in the game [I'm really hoping for ALMS myself], but I seriously doubt that the amount of "classic Gran Turismo" will be less than in previous games. Typically, when new features are added, they do not remove or diminish all the previous features.

Seriously, if you're saying that NASCAR fans should just get a NASCAR game, what's to stop people from saying that GT should be anything more than Skylines and JGTC cars/tracks? After all, they've been a pretty big focus of GT for a while. GT should appeal to as many people as possible, whether you realize it or not, you're probably benefiting from PD doing just that.

 

[MilkMan]

Ovals are boring, i like it the way it has been in GT3 and GT4. One oval per game and then the top speed track ofcourse ^^ but yes, it could get boring with the nascars though, lets say, 4 ovals

 

[LSX]

Seriously, if you're saying that NASCAR fans should just get a NASCAR game, what's to stop people from saying that GT should be anything more than Skylines and JGTC cars/tracks? After all, they've been a pretty big focus of GT for a while. GT should appeal to as many people as possible, whether you realize it or not, you're probably benefiting from PD doing just that.

Yes! WINNER! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

 

[djanikowski]

Seriously, if you're saying that NASCAR fans should just get a NASCAR game, what's to stop people from saying that GT should be anything more than Skylines and JGTC cars/tracks? After all, they've been a pretty big focus of GT for a while. GT should appeal to as many people as possible, whether you realize it or not, you're probably benefiting from PD doing just that.

The problem with the argument of "Get a NASCAR game", is that GT is the only NASCAR game since 2008.

 

[LSX]

The problem with the argument of "Get a NASCAR game", is that GT is the only goodNASCAR game since 20083.

And of course whenever Iracing came out. Which is maybe what you meant.

 

[IsmokeGT]

Duh. or fixed, whichever way you want to look at it.

Edit: That is of course provided there aren't any yahoo's out there just to wreck cars. I played Daytona oval online just the other night and it was infuriating! Getting hit in the side while going straight, people rocketing into you as you head into the corners. It was a joke, really, not a funny one though. And the closure rate in the draft was insane, people coming from so far back only to hit you going 10-15mph faster than you. Does not end up well... Woo-Hoo for private rooms.

If you befriend the right guys around here, there will be endless racing with guys that are fast, clean, and competitive, on any track.

I imagine when GT5 finally is released, GTPlanet will be packed. I can't speak for other countries, but the fast guys in the US are all friends. The guys on top of the TT chart can be found racing all the time, but you just gotta know where and when

 

[djanikowski]

And of course whenever Iracing came out. Which is maybe what you meant.

iRacing didn't get NASCAR until 2009, what I was talking about whas NASCAR 09, which came out in 2008.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

If PD could do it without wrecking the rest of the game, go for it.

Sure, having NASCAR, etc, might take away from what else could have been in the game [I'm really hoping for ALMS myself], but I seriously doubt that the amount of "classic Gran Turismo" will be less than in previous games. Typically, when new features are added, they do not remove or diminish all the previous features.

Seriously, if you're saying that NASCAR fans should just get a NASCAR game, what's to stop people from saying that GT should be anything more than Skylines and JGTC cars/tracks? After all, they've been a pretty big focus of GT for a while. GT should appeal to as many people as possible, whether you realize it or not, you're probably benefiting from PD doing just that.

You're totally right of course. I just can't stop myself from thinking 20 locations and 70 variations - how many of those are Ovals and Rally tracks? Cos for each one it's one less track I'll like in there. Prolog P'd me off cos it had an oval with a really bad (IMO) infield and HSR which, despite having opposing corners, is very much like an oval in regards to the way the lap "feels" so I basically had Suzuka and Fuji and London which really doesn't suit faster cars when I couldn't help thinking I could have had the Nurb or Laguna Seca or something else there instead of the Oval.

Totally selfish, I know but there you have it. Of course DLC is the answer here. I'll quite happily shell out a couple of bucks for new tracks of my choice and a few new vehicles.

 

[subsonic]

I don't see any point in having more than one oval circuit since the differences between them are so minimal and its pretty much only Americans that are interested in Nascar & Indy racing.

Ypu are wrong, i`m from Spain and i like ovals, Nascar and IRL

 

[bubbajan21]

I think one oval is enough (Daytona, which was in Prologue). Once you've driven one, then they are all basically the same.

 

[IsmokeGT]

I think one oval is enough (Daytona, which was in Prologue). Once you've driven one, then they are all basically the same.

The same can be said about road courses, and rally courses. So, I guess three tracks is sufficient for GT5. 👎

 

[Sam48]

I think one oval is enough (Daytona, which was in Prologue). Once you've driven one, then they are all basically the same.

How would you know, the only oval in GT is Daytona. So how can you say all other ovals are the same if you've never driven them?

 

[LSX]

I think there is a major difference in holding it wide open the whole lap like Daytona, and going full throttle, to full on the breaks into a banked hairpin every 7 seconds at a place like Bristol.

One is as long as the pit road of the other. Damn similar if you ask me.

I think one road course is enough honestly, I mean, you can only turn left and right so many times before they all become the same.

Just don't work does it.

You guys need a bigger spoon for pot stirring?

 

[Ferrari_Tifoso]

British pay 150+ euro/pounds to watch that funeral procession?

Um you just made my point for me. See how much these people love F1. How many Indy/Nascar fans would be willing to pay $244+ to watch a race?

And where do you propose, if they could, build these 400,000 extra seats around the track that fans would want to watch the race from?

Um... theoretically. Or for arguments sake. I'm pointing out that F1 is just as big a draw, if not bigger, than any oval based sport. Just because the seats dont exist doesn't mean the fans don't.

Silverstone from 1990. Looks like Indianapolis but with a chicane and a couple of worthless bends so they can call it a roadcourse.

How you came up with is beyond me. Wow... By your standards a 350Z could be compared to a Mclaren F1 because they're both sports cars.

Formula 1 is thinking about adding SHORTCUTS to produce passing

For someone who claims to know about F1, you sure take stuff Bernie Ecclestone says seriously.

I doubt that "kills" all.

Well the vast majority of the WORLD'S motorsports fans disagree with you.

But wait, F1 has all the money, glamour and technology. Its so fascinating how teams like Toyota and BMW spend tens of millions of dollars for a midpack car

So what's wrong with having all the money, glamor, and technology? And the fact that it takes more than just money to win in F1 is a drawback, because?????

Of course there are great things about F1, but some people talk about it like its this god way up in the clouds that can't be touched and is flawless.

I'm very well aware of all the flaws in F1. But IMO GP racing, at it's highest level, is the greatest sport in the world. How many other race cars can do all the things a F1 car does? Acceleration, top speed, stopping power, and cornering? How many other cars can do all the things the way a F1 car does? Hell, even the drivers are the fittest in the world? How exactly is F1 not the pinnacle of motorsports?

 

[SomeStrangeSin]

I hate,hate,hate oval courses. A retard could be succesful at oval racing. GEEZ