Patch 1.10 - new single player mode "GT League"

[Turbo Racer 48]

No, I am actually looking at it pretty widely.
I will agree the various demographics certainly overlap and are not black and white, but the problem I stated exists. Most players are not interested in competitive racing, a smaller subset are.
When announcing GTS and focusing on eSports, they were communicating primarily towards those interested in the competitive aspects of the interest. The casuals were upset. Now they are trying to appease the latter, while any communication regarding any changes or improvements to the eSports aspect is totally absent.
So, it is clear that at least two of the market subsets PD is chasing are at odds with each other in terms of both the actual game design and development resources.

You still have not backed up your position. I have provided numerous, factual examples of why I consider it an unfocused mess. Please feel free to step up to the plate any time soon.

I will blatantly quote myself from my thread "Has PD lost the plot" where I argued the same position. Then I will stay out of this since we're getting off topic and I have stated my position on the update and league stuff. Frankly I am not even sure why I am here discussing it at all.

Foxis i suspect actually we have similar feelings but yours are much stronger re how much simulation needs to be there per your quote and I think you are very concerned the online focus will now get lost whereas i believe PD will continue to support both in the long term.......its not unreasonable for there to be relative silence on eSports right now as focus is on the next offline release.....what the release will be after that who knows only PD.

My view was that although the focus was primarily online it was designed with enough content to appeal to others in the GT tradition of having museum, scapes & the new livery editor. I don't believe though as a platform its a mess and I see a very much wider target audience than two market subsets with casuals themselves split into offline, online, car enthusiasts, racers etc.

What no one knows is whether PD always planned to expand in this GT League direction (one way of reading of Kaz's October quotes) or whether its a very late reaction or an established contingency plan that good organisations have or pullahead of the much fabled GT7 !.

To my mind it too early to say as we've not even seen the way it is implemented as I have posted already several times.

Lets agree to disagree in terms of depth of concern over direction as we are clearly off topic........

 

[Outspacer]

Sorry for the delayed response

Sales dictate what your basically allowed to do next as a studio. Do gangbusters and you can do another game with a bigger scope. But in this case the scope was clearly smaller, to get the game out of the door this year and to be more focused.
Development of GT5 was an unmitigated disaster and GT6's release was a direct result of GT5's development hell. No one wanted that again so we have GT Sport.
We also have no idea of the development costs of GT5, 6 and GT Sport. So comparing them is even more meaningless.

Another thing to factor in is that tastes ebb and flow, look at the fighting game scene, when GT5 came out on PS3 there was almost nothing else other than the GRID games for it to compete with, now the PS4 has many racing games and Forza is now a PC affair, furthering it's grasp on the racing game market.

We can roughly guess staff costs for GTS: 200 skilled staff for 4 years could easily cost a company $80 million. The other big chunk will be marketing, and they've done a lot of that this time round. Considering markups and costs etc, they might need to gross $300,000,000 or more to break even.

GT4 to GT5 was 6 years with a presumably slightly smaller team, but in between they put out Tourist Trophy, HD, and 5 Prologue. Development hell, maybe, but profitable.

Competition - for me at least, AC and GT(S) fill different needs, I have no problem enjoying them both. PCars 2... somehow after shelving it waiting for patch 3 I haven't felt any great desire to get back to it. Still love a bit of Driveclub now and then. They all got my money!! There have been other driving games in the past - plenty on PS2 - yet GT wiped the floor with them in sales terms.

Forza isn't on PS4, the biggest selling console. Simple as that.

I think had GT Sport kept to it's promise, it could have slowly built up its user-base and sales to be a very successful product for Sony. They could have made a basic version free to play after a few DLC packs so you could set up a party with some friends and had some online races together in your own little team... etc etc...

For Sport mode, the userbase is currently tiny compared to what would be needed to make that DLC model profitable. Online racing simply isn't appealing enough to enough people. So while you might think it could become successful, you haven't backed that up with any facts or figures to support that notion. Even when I allowed for quite a lot of DLC ($100 per active player) it was still a tiny fraction of the revenue. Giving away a free version would take away so much revenue, with probably not a lot in return - % conversion to active users would be much worse, so it may not even double the number of active users.

Maximum there's about 100,000 active players of Sport mode, but a realistic guess would be quite a bit lower, say, 30,000 to 40,000. On a typical evening that might mean a peak of 10,000 actually online, optimistically. I'm running through those estimations to allow some sort of comparison to the SteamDB stats for AC, which has peaks of about 3,000 each night. Now clearly that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but it's interesting to note that for AC, 90k of 550k buyers have played within the last two weeks, which shows what a loyal fanbase looks like. No idea if the same is true on consoles, but it isn't totally daft to argue that Kunos is in a better position to make money from DLC than PD... it sounds ridiculous, but there it is.

... instead now like has been posted by a few here, they've gone against that and have tried to chase as many users as possible... which I feel is a mistake and will hurt the game and its userbase and future sales

I don't think it will hurt much, but I'm not sure it will help much either. I think most of the potential users may have already gone, and it could take a new product to make them reconsider.

 

[baldgye]

We can roughly guess staff costs for GTS: 200 skilled staff for 4 years could easily cost a company $80 million. The other big chunk will be marketing, and they've done a lot of that this time round. Considering markups and costs etc, they might need to gross $300,000,000 or more to break even.

GT4 to GT5 was 6 years with a presumably slightly smaller team, but in between they put out Tourist Trophy, HD, and 5 Prologue. Development hell, maybe, but profitable.

Competition - for me at least, AC and GT(S) fill different needs, I have no problem enjoying them both. PCars 2... somehow after shelving it waiting for patch 3 I haven't felt any great desire to get back to it. Still love a bit of Driveclub now and then. They all got my money!! There have been other driving games in the past - plenty on PS2 - yet GT wiped the floor with them in sales terms.

Forza isn't on PS4, the biggest selling console. Simple as that.



For Sport mode, the userbase is currently tiny compared to what would be needed to make that DLC model profitable. Online racing simply isn't appealing enough to enough people. So while you might think it could become successful, you haven't backed that up with any facts or figures to support that notion. Even when I allowed for quite a lot of DLC ($100 per active player) it was still a tiny fraction of the revenue. Giving away a free version would take away so much revenue, with probably not a lot in return - % conversion to active users would be much worse, so it may not even double the number of active users.

Maximum there's about 100,000 active players of Sport mode, but a realistic guess would be quite a bit lower, say, 30,000 to 40,000. On a typical evening that might mean a peak of 10,000 actually online, optimistically. I'm running through those estimations to allow some sort of comparison to the SteamDB stats for AC, which has peaks of about 3,000 each night. Now clearly that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but it's interesting to note that for AC, 90k of 550k buyers have played within the last two weeks, which shows what a loyal fanbase looks like. No idea if the same is true on consoles, but it isn't totally daft to argue that Kunos is in a better position to make money from DLC than PD... it sounds ridiculous, but there it is.



I don't think it will hurt much, but I'm not sure it will help much either. I think most of the potential users may have already gone, and it could take a new product to make them reconsider.

You seem to be quite dismissive and then make rather large assumptions.
I think trying to brake down sales like that and user bases without the numbers is kind of meaningless. Also I think leaping to the conclusion that AC players are more loyal that GT players is a bridge too far without any real evidence to back it up.
I think the PC is an increasingly important platform (which was why I mentioned it), especially when compered to the PS3 era when most gaming sites where talking about the death of the PC and PC gaming.


Regardless of the numbers assumed or otherwise, this patch doesn't address anything relating to sales or money. It's a free patch that (probably) took months of work that only really simulates the idea previous league modes of older games. On top of that they have already spent a decent budget selling Sport as an online esports focused racing game, how much more money do they spend saying the opposite, only for people to find out that's not really the case?

 

[Outspacer]

You seem to be quite dismissive and then make rather large assumptions.
I think trying to brake down sales like that and user bases without the numbers is kind of meaningless. Also I think leaping to the conclusion that AC players are more loyal that GT players is a bridge too far without any real evidence to back it up.
I think the PC is an increasingly important platform (which was why I mentioned it), especially when compered to the PS3 era when most gaming sites where talking about the death of the PC and PC gaming.

I'm quite dismissive because even if some of my numbers - sure, based on assumptions, which I've admitted and laid out - were out by a factor of ten it would be difficult to make the DLC model profitable.

Saying "it isn't totally daft to argue" isn't making a conclusion, but I am saying that the figures we have so far could support it. Apparently close to 20% retention for AC after years, vs maybe 10% tops for GT Sport after weeks. Whatever it means, it's quite a striking difference.

If we don't go into estimations at all, then we're just stating our respective opinions

Regardless of the numbers assumed or otherwise, this patch doesn't address anything relating to sales or money. It's a free patch that (probably) took months of work that only really simulates the idea previous league modes of older games. On top of that they have already spent a decent budget selling Sport as an online esports focused racing game, how much more money do they spend saying the opposite, only for people to find out that's not really the case?

Well I presume the reason they're doing it is to increase sales, because I don't believe they planned to do it at all. Otherwise, I agree with all of that. It seems like a knee-jerk reaction now, when it would be better to release a GT7 in a year or two. Maybe they have some other reasoning behind not doing that - I'm sure Kaz knows by now when PS5 is planned to release, for example. But on this, we are just guessing.

 

[baldgye]

I'm quite dismissive because even if some of my numbers - sure, based on assumptions, which I've admitted and laid out - were out by a factor of ten it would be difficult to make the DLC model profitable.

Saying "it isn't totally daft to argue" isn't making a conclusion, but I am saying that the figures we have so far could support it. Apparently close to 20% retention for AC after years, vs maybe 10% tops for GT Sport after weeks. Whatever it means, it's quite a striking difference.

If we don't go into estimations at all, then we're just stating our respective opinions



Well I presume the reason they're doing it is to increase sales, because I don't believe they planned to do it at all. Otherwise, I agree with all of that. It seems like a knee-jerk reaction now, when it would be better to release a GT7 in a year or two. Maybe they have some other reasoning behind not doing that - I'm sure Kaz knows by now when PS5 is planned to release, for example. But on this, we are just guessing.

I think this patch was a reaction, but not to sales. I'm also struggling to see how this patch would correlate to more/new direct sales.
GT7 would take many years to make, given how long Sport take to produce, and PD's history of making games... and game development has only increased in time and money.

I also doubt that anyone has a firm grasp on the PS5 or what it even is yet, let a lone the studio lead of a dev team. The Xbox One X only just launched and the PS4 Pro isn't old.

 

[Outspacer]

I think this patch was a reaction, but not to sales. I'm also struggling to see how this patch would correlate to more/new direct sales.
GT7 would take many years to make, given how long Sport take to produce, and PD's history of making games... and game development has only increased in time and money.

I also doubt that anyone has a firm grasp on the PS5 or what it even is yet, let a lone the studio lead of a dev team. The Xbox One X only just launched and the PS4 Pro isn't old.

He has a seat on Sony's board!

Many years? I don't think so, they have the foundations in place, and unlike GT6 (which took 3 years but they had a lot of work to get GT5 up to scratch first) it wouldn't be so vital to include physics etc improvements and extra content to make it worthwhile buying, since it would be a different enough product (compared to GTS without the GT League patch). They will need be making more cars and tracks either way. Technology-wise, any sort of purpose for wet tyres might be good, but it's too late now to switch to having any dynamic time-of-day or weather. Things like Creating a Tuning Shop for N-class cars wouldn't take forever. I really don't want to get side-tracked into minutae on this, but I do think saying that it would take 'many years' to create a reasonably full GT7 is quite a big assumption. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a massive seller to be worth it - just 5 milion would probably eclipse GTS, sadly.

 

[baldgye]

He has a seat on Sony's board!

Many years? I don't think so, they have the foundations in place, and unlike GT6 (which took 3 years but they had a lot of work to get GT5 up to scratch first) it wouldn't be so vital to include physics etc improvements and extra content to make it worthwhile buying, since it would be a different enough product (compared to GTS without the GT League patch). They will need be making more cars and tracks either way. Technology-wise, any sort of purpose for wet tyres might be good, but it's too late now to switch to having any dynamic time-of-day or weather. Things like Creating a Tuning Shop for N-class cars wouldn't take forever. I really don't want to get side-tracked into minutae on this, but I do think saying that it would take 'many years' to create a reasonably full GT7 is quite a big assumption. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a massive seller to be worth it - just 5 milion would probably eclipse GTS, sadly.

GT6 had over 1000 cars, GT Sport has less than 200. Not to mention the fact that GT Sport has no where near enough tracks to support a full GT mode/proper GT league.
It took 3 years to go from GT5 to GT6, yet you're suggesting it would take less than that for GT Sport to get to something even closely resembling a full GT game?

 

[Outspacer]

GT6 had over 1000 cars, GT Sport has less than 200. Not to mention the fact that GT Sport has no where near enough tracks to support a full GT mode/proper GT league.
It took 3 years to go from GT5 to GT6, yet you're suggesting it would take less than that for GT Sport to get to something even closely resembling a full GT game?

GT Sport has nowhere near enough (particularly real-world) tracks to support itself, currently. For cars, it doesn't feel empty in the main Gr classes. As a rough guess, could we agree that 50% more cars and tracks would be possible in two years? And that they will be producing these regardless? That wouldn't be the vast expanse we've had before, but it could provide for 'sufficient' variation. Perhaps barely sufficient, but still.

So yes, they could produce a GT7 within a couple of years. It may get criticised for limited content, but IMO it would still sell better than GTS. (And it could be way, way, closer to a full GT than GT League will be, on that you surely agree).

 

[BrunusCL82]

It is for these reasons that the GT7 will come.

GTS failed.

GTS has no way to recover.

The reception from the critics and the community was terrible. Terrible when compared to the other GTs.

76 on Metacritic is terrible. It is incompatible with the GT franchise. But PD preferred to race an incomplete game, without tracks, without rain, without cars ...

The damage is already done. There is no way to recover.

GTS sold less than Need for Speed on PS4. It's a joke!

Imaginative in other times!

PD was wrong with these confusing and lazy decisions about GTS.

As they said, it would be very wasteful for SONY to invest in DLCs in the GTS. Not worth it.

It is preferable gives a timid support throughout 2018. For example, one hundred cars and six circuits.

Then, in the middle of 2019 they launch GT7. A complete game.

The bad reception is not because of the community's current feelings about racing games. Wrong.

The truth is that the direction of PD towards GTS was terrible. It's the fault of the PD, not the gamer community.

And there is another flaw in the GTS.

The GT franchise is focused on being a trademark, rather than a video game.

The game is very pretentious. A little pedantic.

Want to be an encyclopedia, whether the seal of Hamilton, Vettel's, FIA's ...

Want to be a brand of glasses, clothes ...

He wants to team up with carmakers and brands to build fiction cars, with the vanity to come back and flatter.

And the main game is forgotten. No edge lines. No car. Without rain. No dynamic time.

They worry about the fly on the plate, but they forget the dog in the food depot.

 

[VXR]

No, it definitely is the fault of the gamer community, because they're knocking the direction and content of the absolute best performing GT of all time out on the track, where it matters.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Greetings from Toko all.

When Gran Turismo SPORT becomes the GT7 we've all been waiting for, y'all let me know.

Cheers.

 

[baldgye]

GT Sport has nowhere near enough (particularly real-world) tracks to support itself, currently. For cars, it doesn't feel empty in the main Gr classes. As a rough guess, could we agree that 50% more cars and tracks would be possible in two years? And that they will be producing these regardless? That wouldn't be the vast expanse we've had before, but it could provide for 'sufficient' variation. Perhaps barely sufficient, but still.

So yes, they could produce a GT7 within a couple of years. It may get criticised for limited content, but IMO it would still sell better than GTS. (And it could be way, way, closer to a full GT than GT League will be, on that you surely agree).

I don’t agree with this assessment, yeah they could add 50% more cars and a decent number of tracks in two years to GT Sport. But 300-400 cars does not a GT7 make.
And if you carried over all the Vision GT cars and GT3 cars, you’d have a startling number of real world cars to race cars ratio... which isn’t what the traditional GT audence wants.

So you’d launch a GT7 that, wasn’t anything close to the size or scope of previous games, pretending to be something it’s not... and this some how would be a good thing for PD, Sony and consumers?

 

[RichiPuppy]

I think this patch was a reaction, but not to sales. I'm also struggling to see how this patch would correlate to more/new direct sales.
GT7 would take many years to make, given how long Sport take to produce, and PD's history of making games... and game development has only increased in time and money.

I also doubt that anyone has a firm grasp on the PS5 or what it even is yet, let a lone the studio lead of a dev team. The Xbox One X only just launched and the PS4 Pro isn't old.

Any of my real life friends that were interested in this game pre GT league I advised against buying. I have since changed my stance on it with GT league and I know at least one of them is going to get this game once GT league is added. That is just one sale directly effected by this and I have seen some posts in this thread with people saying that they have bought or plan on buying it since the GT league announcement. So why are you having trouble seeing this patch correlate with sales?

 

[baldgye]

Any of my real life friends that were interested in this game pre GT league I advised against buying. I have since changed my stance on it with GT league and I know at least one of them is going to get this game once GT league is added. That is just one sale directly effected by this and I have seen some posts in this thread with people saying that they have bought or plan on buying it since the GT league announcement. So why are you having trouble seeing this patch correlate with sales?

A handful of people connected to a a 3rd party Gran Turismo fansite... is going to undo months and millions of $ advertising and static game reviews?


Edit: this off topic chat I think has run its course tho, sorry mods!

 

[TheRacer94]

So,GT League release next week?

 

[Outspacer]

I don’t agree with this assessment, yeah they could add 50% more cars and a decent number of tracks in two years to GT Sport. But 300-400 cars does not a GT7 make.
And if you carried over all the Vision GT cars and GT3 cars, you’d have a startling number of real world cars to race cars ratio... which isn’t what the traditional GT audence wants.

So you’d launch a GT7 that, wasn’t anything close to the size or scope of previous games, pretending to be something it’s not... and this some how would be a good thing for PD, Sony and consumers?

Of course the bulk of the new cars would have to be N-class... which is precisely what we see in the announced 12 cars coming soon - every last one of them!

Vision GT is so much more out of place in GTS than in a GT7

What is their choice? We agree that trying to put a GT into GTS doesn't cut it, I'm only going one step further to say it's a sunk cost fallacy and plan B should involve a new product release. You'd rather believe that paid DLC can save the day.

Yet 200 cars and 14 tracks a Forza made. Same criticisms, but even smaller, and it still sold OK (very well compared to the number of XBones sold). A GT7 with 300-400 cars would sell just fine. It wouldn't be 'pretending' as long as it had the same old exhaust and turbo upgrades, etc, etc, etc. It would simply have less cars and tracks. What isn't good for Sony and PD about selling some product? What isn't good for the millions* of consumers who didn't buy GTS, who wanted GT7? Some disappointment is better than a lot

* absolutely a guess, but I think it's fair to say at least 2 or 3 million.

 

[Iceman]

No, it definitely is the fault of the gamer community, because they're knocking the direction and content of the absolute best performing GT of all time out on the track, where it matters.

How can you place fault in the community for not finding the content enjoyable? People are buying a game, not just a driving simulator - there are more pieces to the puzzle than how the cars drive. I would agree that this is the most important component, but if there isn't an entertaining structure around that experience you're left with something hollow.

You also have to consider expectations of the fanbase - is it wrong or unnatural to expect this release would build on the format of past GT games? It's very similar to a band completely changing their style/genre after many popular releases - there may be nothing wrong with the new music, but the fanbase often feels alienated. They have an expectation of receiving something similar to what they've enjoyed for so long. You can argue the merit of this reaction, but it is completely predictable.

 

[baldgye]

* absolutely a guess, but I think it's fair to say at least 2 or 3 million.

This is the crux of why we disagree.

But I don’t think we are making any headway in this discussion so I’ll leave it as it is and look forward to playing what ever content GT Sport brings us

 

[VXR]

How can you place fault in the community for not finding the content enjoyable? People are buying a game, not just a driving simulator - there are more pieces to the puzzle than how the cars drive. I would agree that this is the most important component, but if there isn't an entertaining structure around that experience you're left with something hollow.

You also have to consider expectations of the fanbase - is it wrong or unnatural to expect this release would build on the format of past GT games? It's very similar to a band completely changing their style/genre after many popular releases - there may be nothing wrong with the new music, but the fanbase often feels alienated. They have an expectation of receiving something similar to what they've enjoyed for so long. You can argue the merit of this reaction, but it is completely predictable.

Firstly, people knew exactly what GTS was going to be. I have no desire to race online, but I knew the scapes, livery editor and desirable PD-designed race variants were more than enough to make the product seem worthwhile still. Instead of following the Forza route and churning out another compendium of what they did 2 years ago, PD chose to offer a lighter experience than before, but one with much more substance than ever. Every car feels nuanced, each one is really well made and the lighting is second to none.

It's that good a product, to tarnish it because it isn't just GT7 seems way too harsh.

 

[Outspacer]

This is the crux of why we disagree.

But I don’t think we are making any headway in this discussion so I’ll leave it as it is and look forward to playing what ever content GT Sport brings us

You're right, I think we've both put all of our thoughts down on this already. And if you don't agree that GTS is selling (at best) about half as well as was hoped/expected, I don't think we'll come to any closer agreement

In the meantime we can enjoy the racing in the 'mistake' PD gave us, and I hope to see you on track

 

[EliteBeast55]

ERRMAHGERD!! Just like old times!

 

[05XR8]

GTS is, just about, crying out for a sandbox. For this that have the game since launch, I'm reading it like they've got all the cars and funds to burn. All that's needed now is a mode to do their own thing.

Reminds me of a game that gives access to all cars and tracks from the start. All that's left, is to acquire DLC.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Firstly, people knew exactly what GTS was going to be. I have no desire to race online, but I knew the scapes, livery editor and desirable PD-designed race variants were more than enough to make the product seem worthwhile still. Instead of following the Forza route and churning out another compendium of what they did 2 years ago, PD chose to offer a lighter experience than before, but one with much more substance than ever. Every car feels nuanced, each one is really well made and the lighting is second to none.

It's that good a product, to tarnish it because it isn't just GT7 seems way too harsh.

People on THIS site knew what it was about mate. Not by any stretch does that mean everybody else did. That's why I didn't buy it until the Black Friday sale. I still don't think I've got good value for money at all. It's better than GT6 but that's all it is at the moment. The AI is a pushover for solo play and there aren't enough esport races for people to race in. The Lobby crowd don't have all the options they need and no-one has enough content. Light doesn't even begin to describe that!

I have to detox in Assetto Corsa after playing this once a day to get yet another duplicate car in this.

It looks great but substance? No.

 

[goatslunch x]

"The game is very pretentious. A little pedantic." (BrunusCL82)
Nailed it.
This game is the spoil t child of a jazz enthusiast when it would benefit greatly had it been raised by a community.

 

[Baconink]

No not by a long shot.

That just them trying to fix their colossal mistake.

Hahahah this is hilarious. Colossal mistake that is providing loads of fun for many many people. Good one

Also many people knew what the game was about whether you’re a part of this site or not. PD made it very aware what the game was about.

 

[sirjim73]

I would sum it up by referring to the Team VVV podcast after release. They mentioned that they had been reporting what the game was going to be for A YEAR and everyone was saying in the comments " no, it won't" even though Kaz said everything about the game at the VERY FIRST unveiling at the Orange Box and at EVERY single event after that (I was at the orange box - it was extremely clear what GT Sport was). There are thousands of people who chose to ignore every single gaming site and news report and YouTube video they saw and read and made their own assumptions.

There are also however many many "casuals" who were persuaded by the massive marketing without knowing about the game.

I'm not saying the chosen route for GT Sport was right or wrong, i would have preferred more single player content on release myself, but many people stuck their fingers in their ears.

Anyway - let's get on topic folks. I am starting to suspect the big update will drop on Christmas day. Remember they will be working over Christmas and we've had vision cars and other things released on Christmas day on gt5 and GT6.

 

[Metalogic]

I 'm really liking GT Sport (and this is coming from someone who plays more "serious" PC sims), looking forward to more single-player content, but have always preferred quality over quantity, so don't mind it coming it stages.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Well, as of those tweets of 13th Oct 2017, I guess we could say 'probably'

Before that... who knows. But in the various presentations and the closed beta there was no mention of a GT League, or anything remotely like it. Of course they could have planned a Professional section to Driving School, more Mission Challenges, and Circuit Experience events for any new tracks. And possibly even on 13th Oct that was still what Kaz was referring to.

I absolutely believe they are creating (not 'created', yet) GT League as a response to the backlash. Whether it was decided on 13th Oct 2017 or even a couple of months earlier doesn't really make a lot of difference. The closed beta made it really clear what was planned to be in the full game, even though there were parts we couldn't use, and that's when at least some of the backlash started.

Didn't he also say that the game would appeal to veteran GT players as well as newcomers? Can't find the article it was in annoyingly.
Also, this:

Three years ago, we basically reset all the car models in the game, to start building them from scratch. Now, the models have been created at a quality that will last for ten years from this point on. We intend to add more and more models in future updates, so you don’t have to worry about that. We have a lot of plans to add content post-launch.

This sort of confirms what I said.

I'm going by the stats that @Milouse generates. Would it surprise you to learn that 2/3 of drivers have never had a single race in sport mode?

Well, if 2/3 of PlayStation owners don't have PS Plus, then I am not surprised in the slightest. Still, I think Sport Mode is great fun and more people should try it.

 

[Outspacer]

Didn't he also say that the game would appeal to veteran GT players as well as newcomers? Can't find the article it was in annoyingly.
Also, this:
This sort of confirms what I said.

Well that's the problem, Kaz says a lot of vague things! I think he had a vision of everybody finding their place enjoying online racing against other humans, at whatever level. Maybe he was bored of the old GT and thought everyone else was too.

Saying "lot of plans to add content", in the same breath as saying there will be more cars, is basically saying nothing definite beyond more cars (and tracks, hopefully).

These vague statements just serve to confirm your (and lots of other people's) hope...

The game has been polarizing from the start, no doubt. But clearly PD didn't create GT League after the backlash, I think they had planned it for a while. At least I hope that's what happened anyway.

I was responding to your specific thought on GT League. All the evidence points in the other direction.

As for polarizing... I'm in conflict with myself over it! It does evoke the traditional GT love-hate feelings Seriously though, while I'm enjoying GTS (with some caveats), I've also always been sceptical of it being a big success - a feeling that only grew the more we found out about it. So yeah, you'll see me being really quite critical of it, objectively as a product, while subjectively getting on alright with it and quite pleased that I reached DR:A.

 

[Sergio18]

The game has just been released and there are already dramas ... PD knew perfectly that this game was going to suffer this, but it is a little sad that people hate him, it is a popular saga that had the balls to reinvent himself and propose something new (at least in console), having one of the menus, photo and music mode more beautiful and artistic than I had ever seen before, GT Sport is a GT, why? He has a soul, he is Yamauchi, he is Polyphony ... It is sad that people ask him to become the same as the other sagas, do not have enough with the others? So that more of the same? How does it benefit us to have generic identical games? PS and Sony have done something we should thank, risk, the sad and frustrating is that there are people who are happy about it, when they do not realize that this is what is missing in the industry today, you can criticize the lack of content, but not the idea or the soul. In short, today the generic triumphs over art, the world goes to hell.