Patch 1.10 - new single player mode "GT League"

[Tired Tyres]

Didn't he also say that the game would appeal to veteran GT players as well as newcomers? Can't find the article it was in annoyingly.
Also, this:

This sort of confirms what I said.


Well, if 2/3 of PlayStation owners don't have PS Plus, then I am not surprised in the slightest. Still, I think Sport Mode is great fun and more people should try it.

How do you account for the 56.4% take up of the Trophy you HAVE to have before you can do any online racing?

Do you actually realise how small a minority online racers actually are?

This update is a fix for the people who don't care about online. They are the majority.

 

[SHGTP]

I've only done a couple of online races (on a single night), but nothing in Sport mode. I'm about 60% through the career, but the vast majority of my time right now is spent in the livery creator.

I see the single player content as something to chip away at between other things (including other games), while the online, community aspects and DLC/updates is what will keep me coming back in the medium to long term.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

The game has just been released and there are already dramas ... PD knew perfectly that this game was going to suffer this, but it is a little sad that people hate him, it is a popular saga that had the balls to reinvent himself and propose something new (at least in console), having one of the menus, photo and music mode more beautiful and artistic than I had ever seen before, GT Sport is a GT, why? He has a soul, he is Yamauchi, he is Polyphony ... It is sad that people ask him to become the same as the other sagas, do not have enough with the others? So that more of the same? How does it benefit us to have generic identical games? PS and Sony have done something we should thank, risk, the sad and frustrating is that there are people who are happy about it, when they do not realize that this is what is missing in the industry today, you can criticize the lack of content, but not the idea or the soul. In short, today the generic triumphs over art, the world goes to hell.

How you came to the conclusion that we want GT to be like other racing games, I have no idea.

 

[Voodoovaj]

How do you account for the 56.4% take up of the Trophy you HAVE to have before you can do any online racing?

Do you actually realise how small a minority online racers actually are?

This update is a fix for the people who don't care about online. They are the majority.

The counter arguement to this is that a lack of online would kill the game sales. The game's evangelists play online and they drive sales.

Would anyone still buy/play any Battlefield game if they punted online?

56.4% is, technically, a majority. That's just math

 

[Outspacer]

The counter arguement to this is that a lack of online would kill the game sales. The game's evangelists play online and they drive sales.

I don't think it would kill game sales, but I'm sure things like GT Academy (and whatever a properly stewarded serious FIA season has in store) have a halo effect.

56.4% is, technically, a majority. That's just math

Well... http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sport_play_ratio shows a tiny minority actually race much.

 

[Tired Tyres]

The counter arguement to this is that a lack of online would kill the game sales. The game's evangelists play online and they drive sales.

Would anyone still buy/play any Battlefield game if they punted online?

56.4% is, technically, a majority. That's just math

Okay. Apples and oranges time is it?

So a minority (plus) of a minority (online racers) of a minority (esport) drives sales does it?

Explain why PD are backtracking as fast as they can to provide a solo play mode?

Solo = majority = sales = move on to new game.

Online = stay playing = longer life game = longer support.

A proper balance between the two is what is required for the benefit of all players.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Okay. Apples and oranges time is it?

So a minority (plus) of a minority (online racers) of a minority (esport) drives sales does it?

Explain why PD are backtracking as fast as they can to provide a solo play mode?

Solo = majority = sales = move on to new game.

Online = stay playing = longer life game = longer support.

A proper balance between the two is what is required for the benefit of all players.

Backtracking? Do you understand how long it takes to do game development? IF, they were "backtracking" as you say, GT League would be out next summer. That's at best, if it were a skeleton version of itself.

The decision to add the GT League would, at minimum, had to have been made at least 1 year ago. The single player will have been in testing for, at minimum, two months.

I've said it a million times before. GT isn't about selling units of GT. It's about selling the PS4. If people are playing GT Online, they are firing up their PS4 and they are more apt to buy PS4 games and talk their friends into PS4's and PS4 games.

Do you HONESTLY, Honestly now..give it some thought, think that a multi-billion dollar company like Sony, with one of it's MOST important products (Playstation in general) simply neglected MOUNTAINS of data and said "screw it, we're going to build an online focused GT". You should apply to Sony because you have brilliantly deduced how incorrect they are with their design direction on one of their most prized products.

FYI, the data was in over a decade ago. Online drives sales. That's why even the Uncharted series has an online component.

 

[Deadheadbill]

A proper balance between the two is what is required for the benefit of all players.

Agreed. I believe the focus will be decidedly online for the GT series from here on but catering to those who want more SP content can only be a good thing imo.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well... http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sport_play_ratio shows a tiny minority actually race much.

I was being sarcastic, because 56.4 is more than 50%, which is a majority.

BTW, that's also a normal number. All games have their "whales" so to speak that generate the bulk of their revenue. That 6% will be the same people that will evangelize the game to others.

That said, although anecdotal, many of my friends in the game never play Sport Mode. They prefer their own lobbies. (FOR MY FRIEND'S LIST) It's a 10:1 ratio of friends that play in lobbies versus those that play Sport Mode.

Agreed. I believe the focus will be decidedly online for the GT series from here on but catering to those who want more SP content can only be a good thing imo.

Really?

Because this chart says it's doing just fine. That's data, not an opinion.

FYI, Call of Duty and FIFA are juggernaut games. FIFA earns more money than the GDP of many small countries. To be third behind those two means it did VERY well indeed.

Of course, everyone is free to believe what they want. I like to believe in the data.

 

[Deadheadbill]

Really?

Because this chart says it's doing just fine. That's data, not an opinion.

FYI, Call of Duty and FIFA are juggernaut games. FIFA earns more money than the GDP of many small countries. To be third behind those two means it did VERY well indeed.

Of course, everyone is free to believe what they want. I like to believe in the data.

Both CoD and Battlefront 2 went to great lengths to emphasize their SP content in the latest releases. I don't even know why you are disagreeing with me?

Agreed. I believe the focus will be decidedly online for the GT series from here on but catering to those who want more SP content can only be a good thing imo.

 

[Foxis]

Backtracking? Do you understand how long it takes to do game development?

I know it was not directed at me, but I will answer anyway: Yes, they are backtracking. And yes I understand exactly how long a game dev project can take. I do it for a living. (fortunately, or unfortunately - depending on how you look at it :-) )

Do you HONESTLY, Honestly now..give it some thought, think that a multi-billion dollar company like Sony, with one of it's MOST important products (Playstation in general) simply neglected MOUNTAINS of data and said "screw it, we're going to build an online focused GT".

Not exactly. But I do think that Kaz has quite a bit of influence and decided to steer GT in a new direction. He has said as much himself, as well as explained why. But, I think he - and Sony - got worried when the early backlash started. That is when they decided to add resources to bring back more offline contents.

I have said it before, but they set a very ambitious goal only to subsequently chicken out. Which is why we have the current, watered down and unfocused mess that is GTS.

Really?
Because this chart says it's doing just fine. That's data, not an opinion.

It is selling well right now compared to other titles, but the player retention for the online component is very poor. That is worrying since Kaz has explicitly stated that online competition and eSport is where the franchise is...er was...going.

Edit again: Why oh why can I just not stay away. I guess it's the same effect that make people stop and stare at highway accidents...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Both CoD and Battlefront 2 went to great lengths to emphasize their SP content in the latest releases. I don't even know why you are disagreeing with me?

I am disagreeing because the people that REALLY care about this have already bought the game.

(btw, I love to be able to delete posts when I accidentally double post)

I know it was not directed at me, but I will answer anyway: Yes, they are backtracking. And yes I understand exactly how long a game dev project can take. I do it for a living. (fortunately, or unfortunately - depending on how you look at it :-) )

Funny, I used to as well.

I can't even conceive of a scenario where a game ships in October, and because of "backtracking" they have a new single player campaign ready for December. I would love to hear how they got the content pitched, designed, approved, iterated, done, alpha tested, beta tested, and finalled in the span of a month and a bit.

Let's just step through it for giggles.

October 17 ship date.

+ add one week at minimum to see if there is uptake and see "oh my, we need to back track"

Oct 24 - this backtrack meeting happens and they decide "go design a new single player"

Oct 31 - The proposal is done and approved (based on the former GT's, so it went fast)

Designers start laying things out and artists start making menu screens. Coders start integrating code or making new code.

When do you estimate this work was completed IF it started October 31st?

Let's say four weeks to be super aggressive.

That brings us to an alpha on November 28th

One week minimum in Alpha

Beta December 5th

One week in Beta

It's ready to be uploaded for December.

So, who wants to play a single player game thrown together in four weeks with minimum testing?

I will stick with my original opinion that they NEVER intended on backtracking and that what we have with the GT Sport is merely an early, paired down release to fight off potential sales loses at Christmas.

 

[Outspacer]

I was being sarcastic, because 56.4 is more than 50%, which is a majority.

Wel sure, I know it isn't a 'great' number, but it's so much better than 5% or 10%

BTW, that's also a normal number. All games have their "whales" so to speak that generate the bulk of their revenue. That 6% will be the same people that will evangelize the game to others.

That said, although anecdotal, many of my friends in the game never play Sport Mode. They prefer their own lobbies. (FOR MY FRIEND'S LIST) It's a 10:1 ratio of friends that play in lobbies versus those that play Sport Mode.

There's 22% who watched the videos and didn't do a single Sport race. Sure, some of them will only be doing lobbies instead. Hopefully we'll get some more stats that better pinpoint what people are doing, but the other one I'm finding interesting is distance driven. Not sure what to make of it yet, because the second highest bucket is 'F. 1000 to 5000 Km' at 26%, but the average of 2248 means more are at the lower end of that range. One to watch as time goes on.

(Distance driven in the last 2 weeks would be a good one, but may not be possible).

I can't even conceive of a scenario where a game ships in November, and because of "backtracking" they have a new single player campaign ready for December. I would love to hear how they got the content pitched, designed, approved, iterated, done, alpha tested, beta tested, and finalled in the span of a month and a bit.

Shipped 18th Oct, so virtually 2 months already. And the content isn't finalled yet, we'll likely get a maintenance announcement when it is. It's PD, so it will likely be later than previously announced. We have no idea how far along they actually are with it - all we've seen is a couple of mock-up screens. And who's to say they didn't start backtracking even before release, say after the closed beta? It would still be 'backtracking', given all the previous presentations. Finally, without seeing exactly what it will include, there's no way to say how long it would take them to knock together. But as a wrapper tracking progress through a bunch of preset arcade races... not long.

edit: ack, you made a huuuuge edit! all I say still stands though.

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

I think the data sample is too small andvtoo llimited in time to confirm that. Lets wait until after Christmas and see. It doesn't mean much but for instance I know 2 work colleagues who are casual racers like me and both wilk be getting PS4's and GTS at Christmas. GTS in UK was selling at No 3 in Amazon and now gone back to £30.

We also don't know what the sales targets were. I remember seeing some time ago Sony's focus was increasing PS+ sales as the PS4 install base is becoming more mature.

https://www.dualshockers.com/sony-s...em-playstation-plus-26-4-million-subscribers/

Dual Shockers report on Sony PS4 Strategy in May 2017. In harvest mode as has 70 mil units sold. PS+ at 26.4 million users and intent to grow by launching new games. Halfway through article is slide showing GT Sport and PS+ on same slide.....GT Sport also appears on another slide too.

ps the article also makes reference to need for new products to address mobile phone market - a key reason for lower console sales in Japan generally...

As neither of us were at the presentation Sony gave we really don't know what they said do we. Presentation slides from corporate business though I'm sure you aware usually try and sum up the intent in a graphical way.. .....anyway the link was provided as requested...

The decision to add the GT League would, at minimum, had to have been made at least 1 year ago. The single player will have been in testing for, at minimum, two months.

I've said it a million times before. GT isn't about selling units of GT. It's about selling the PS4. If people are playing GT Online, they are firing up their PS4 and they are more apt to buy PS4 games and talk their friends into PS4's and PS4 games.

Do you HONESTLY, Honestly now..give it some thought, think that a multi-billion dollar company like Sony, with one of it's MOST important products (Playstation in general) simply neglected MOUNTAINS of data and said "screw it, we're going to build an online focused GT". You should apply to Sony because you have brilliantly deduced how incorrect they are with their design direction on one of their most prized products.

Its possible to my mind that there were different schools of thought even within PD and Sony & PD. I have no evidence but I see Kaz as a 'visionary' pushing this and otherd saying ok lets have a contingency plan. I suspect private feedback after Copperbox saw this plan implemented as I agree if properly implemented then it needs a lot of time especially testing - different metrics are used but one ideal is for every hour of system coding/development there should be an hour of testing. All organisations struggle with this as there is a tendency to see once coding us done its ready....

This is why in previous posts I have stated we need to see how it is implemented and integrated into the game mechanics with the risk being that if this is a 'gut reaction' then it could affect the overall polish of the game if buggy etc.

I fully agree to that GTS role is to sell PS4/PS+ and even PSVR....as Sony are in 'harvest' mode. They said as much in their May 2017 presentation......(long posts attached).

Edited as incomplete...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Shipped 18th Oct, so virtually 2 months already. And the content isn't finalled yet, we'll likely get a maintenance announcement when it is. It's PD, so it will likely be later than previously announced. We have no idea how far along they actually are with it - all we've seen is a couple of mock-up screens. And who's to say they didn't start backtracking even before release, say after the closed beta? It would still be 'backtracking', given all the previous presentations. Finally, without seeing exactly what it will include, there's no way to say how long it would take them to knock together. But as a wrapper tracking progress through a bunch of preset arcade races... not long.

But it's selling well. There is nothing to indicate a need to go backwards and change the direction. Hey, I thought this thing was a prologue because it's so light on content. Was GT League conceived later in production, maybe. Was it a "back track" based on poor sales or poor feedback? Extremely unlikely.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Backtracking? Do you understand how long it takes to do game development? IF, they were "backtracking" as you say, GT League would be out next summer. That's at best, if it were a skeleton version of itself.

The decision to add the GT League would, at minimum, had to have been made at least 1 year ago. The single player will have been in testing for, at minimum, two months.

I've said it a million times before. GT isn't about selling units of GT. It's about selling the PS4. If people are playing GT Online, they are firing up their PS4 and they are more apt to buy PS4 games and talk their friends into PS4's and PS4 games.

Do you HONESTLY, Honestly now..give it some thought, think that a multi-billion dollar company like Sony, with one of it's MOST important products (Playstation in general) simply neglected MOUNTAINS of data and said "screw it, we're going to build an online focused GT". You should apply to Sony because you have brilliantly deduced how incorrect they are with their design direction on one of their most prized products.

FYI, the data was in over a decade ago. Online drives sales. That's why even the Uncharted series has an online component.

So first it's battlefield and now its uncharted. Anymore hoops you want to jump through? IT'S A RACE GAME.

They are majority solo experiences. You only have to look at the trophies to see that.

Sony make just as many mistakes as ANY OTHER COMPANY. Or are you now going to pretend that every game they release is a sales success?

Additionally. This game has been tracking somewhere between GT5P and GT6 sales numbers. They made those numbers at a much lower price. That's not what I'd call a sales success.

 

[Voodoovaj]

So first it's battlefield and now its uncharted. Anymore hoops you want to jump through? IT'S A RACE GAME.

They are majority solo experiences. You only have to look at the trophies to see that.

Sony make just as many mistakes as ANY OTHER COMPANY. Or are you now going to pretend that every game they release is a sales success?

So your assertion is that there are millions and millions of player out there who have not bought GT Sport yet, because of it's limited single player, and that after the release of GT League, these folks will come flooding in? That's what you're trying to say?

 

[Tired Tyres]

So your assertion is that there are millions and millions of player out there who have not bought GT Sport yet, because of it's limited single player, and that after the release of GT League, these folks will come flooding in? That's what you're trying to say?

I very much doubt it will add very many sales at all. Updates like this don't do that. The lack of sales to be is a combination of esport putting people off and the lack of content.

 

[Outspacer]

But it's selling well. There is nothing to indicate a need to go backwards and change the direction. Hey, I thought this thing was a prologue because it's so light on content. Was GT League conceived later in production, maybe. Was it a "back track" based on poor sales or poor feedback? Extremely unlikely.

Selling well? Moderately, but a lot at Black Friday discount levels. And from all the noise, a lot of day one purchasers who wanted single player and were disappointed. (Never mind that 'they should've known', that's irrelevant).

That brings us to an alpha on November 28th
...
So, who wants to play a single player game thrown together in four weeks with minimum testing?

They posted the mock-up shots on 22nd Nov, so that's not far adrift from your sarcastic schedule!

If it looks like it was thrown together in 4 weeks when it arrives, will you change your mind about the back-track?

For me...

So your assertion is that there are millions and millions of player out there who have not bought GT Sport yet, because of it's limited single player,

Yes.

and that after the release of GT League, these folks will come flooding in?

No.

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

So first it's battlefield and now its uncharted. Anymore hoops you want to jump through? IT'S A RACE GAME.

They are majority solo experiences. You only have to look at the trophies to see that.

Sony make just as many mistakes as ANY OTHER COMPANY. Or are you now going to pretend that every game they release is a sales success?

To my mind there is a danger of looking at past experience or even right now and projecting that as the future.

I've said it in a previous post that PD online focus may be brave and a little early but everything points to online being the future.

We need to remember this game is clearly modular in design ripe for expansion in whatever ways PD have planned and will be around for 3 years at least so by 2019/20 how will the gaming industry look in terms of e-sport participlation let alone the automotive or motorsport environment.

If we believe Kaz its the second generation GT so the next one GTS2 or whatever will follow the same approach.

 

[Voodoovaj]

They posted the mock-up shots on 22nd Nov, so that's not far adrift from your sarcastic schedule!

If it looks like it was thrown together in 4 weeks when it arrives, will you change your mind about the back-track?

I have a better "back track" sceanrio.

PD, a coupe of years ago, looks at the schedule and based on the pace of work, they realize that they stand a very real chance of missing Christmas 2017, which is likely seen as a big problem given that there is no GT on the PS4. Rather than miss the date, a new idea is formed. "What would be the least we can ship and when?" The answer being what we have in GTS and Fall 2018.

GT Sport was announced in the middle of 2015, that jives.

Would they lose sales to people who really want the traditional GT experience. Likely. Would they claw some of that back if they finish by Christmas? Likely still. Would they sell a bunch of PS4's bundles? Yep.

That is a scenario that sounds reasonable and probable.

 

[Outspacer]

I have a better "back track" sceanrio.

PD, a coupe of years ago, looks at the schedule and based on the pace of work, they realize that they stand a very real chance of missing Christmas 2017, which is likely seen as a big problem given that there is no GT on the PS4. Rather than miss the date, a new idea is formed. "What would be the least we can ship and when?" The answer being what we have in GTS and Fall 2018.

GT Sport was announced in the middle of 2015, that jives.

Would they lose sales to people who really want the traditional GT experience. Likely. Would they claw some of that back if they finish by Christmas? Likely still. Would they sell a bunch of PS4's bundles? Yep.

That is a scenario that sounds reasonable and probable.

So where does GT League fit into that? I mean, one could see GT Sport as being a decision based somewhat on the amount of cars/tracks they'd be able to generate in the time - clearly not enough for a decent traditional GT experience. And since then it's been a very pure vision presented to us: "join the human race". 10s of millions spent on advertising that very slogan.

Given all of that, you still think GT League just happened to be the only part that missed the Sept/Oct deadline, by a mere couple of months? And that it makes any more sense now than it did back then (2015), with just 15 more cars? (15 cars which for all we know, could've been originally scheduled to be in at launch).

No, it doesn't add up.

 

[Voodoovaj]

So where does GT League fit into that? I mean, one could see GT Sport as being a decision based somewhat on the amount of cars/tracks they'd be able to generate in the time - clearly not enough for a decent traditional GT experience. And since then it's been a very pure vision presented to us: "join the human race". 10s of millions spent on advertising that very slogan.

Given all of that, you still think GT League just happened to be the only part that missed the Sept/Oct deadline, by a mere couple of months? And that it makes any more sense now than it did back then (2015), with just 15 more cars? (15 cars which for all we know, could've been originally scheduled to be in at launch).

No, it doesn't add up.

What comes after gt6? Gt7, right?

So, we all know that GT7 was started after GT5. GT6 has components of it (the renderer, the physics core, etc). Many expected that GT6 would be PS4, but that woudl have left PS3 with only 1 GT title and more life left in it.

Gt League, by everything I have seen, is the next iteration of a Gt single player. It's far easier to call it something like "league" and plug it in when it's ready.

Having the developer known for long dev cycles and missed dates somehow manage to scramble and create something completely new to appease players, even within a single year, seem extremely unlikely (unbelievable to me), not to mention the idea that it's a reaction to "poor" sales. I say that with quotes because we don't really know what the full sales numbers are. The only thing I found so far is vg charts which quotes 1.19mil world wide after the first week, but that usually doesn't include PS Store sales or Bundles.

What else got cut? I don't know. Where are the SEMA cars? Where are all the GT5 and 6 premium cars when so many of the GTS cars are just carry overs? I do know that it is FAR FAR FAR easier to hold content back than to add content that never existed before. Decisions on games like this take a long time, never mind the actual work.

I think we are all in for a lot of surprises and content over the next few years. As word spreads for what's happening with this game, sales will grow. And, really, as long as I have people to play with, I don't care how much it sells. People go on about PCars, but according to VGchartz it only sold 220,000 copies total.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

Okay. Apples and oranges time is it?

So a minority (plus) of a minority (online racers) of a minority (esport) drives sales does it?

Explain why PD are backtracking as fast as they can to provide a solo play mode?

Solo = majority = sales = move on to new game.

Online = stay playing = longer life game = longer support.

A proper balance between the two is what is required for the benefit of all players.

You don’t develop a single player game mode in one month after release. Your argument is ********.

The developer already had it planned. They didn’t wait for the game to be released, read these forums, look at your post and go “OH No we better make a single player GT mode in the next month!”

That’s not how game development works.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You don’t develop a single player game mode in one month after release. Your argument is ********.

The developer already had it planned. They didn’t wait for the game to be released, read these forums, look at your post and go “OH No we better make a single player GT mode in the next month!”

That’s not how game development works.

I KNOW that. What made them NOT disclose it at ANY point from Copperbox until they, finally, did announce it - at a point when it's not going to add appreciably to sales?

 

[Scaff]

You don’t develop a single player game mode in one month after release. Your argument is ********.

It's been two months already, and play the ball not the man

The developer already had it planned. They didn’t wait for the game to be released, read these forums, look at your post and go “OH No we better make a single player GT mode in the next month!”

We will see what gets delivered and that will certainly make it clearer.

That’s not how game development works.

Full game development, no. However if this turns out to be a copy and paste of past GT single player modes then it's not beyond the realm of possibility at all.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I KNOW that. What made them NOT disclose it at ANY point from Copperbox until they, finally, did announce it - at a point when it's not going to add appreciably to sales?

At a point when they know what the can release and in what quarter.

The press release says it all. GT League is "based" on GT single player of old...so it's just single player. They likely knew a very long time ago that it MIGHT miss Christmas. They've likely learned from the past and if it's announced to be released in December, it will be. It has to be done testing by now and it's waiting for a preset date.

They've announced this quarter what will be coming next quarter. Next quarter, they will announce what's coming for the following quarter. Etc. Etc.

 

[Foxis]

I can't even conceive of a scenario where a game ships in October, and because of "backtracking" they have a new single player campaign ready for December. I would love to hear how they got the content pitched, designed, approved, iterated, done, alpha tested, beta tested, and finalled in the span of a month and a bit.

Let's just step through it for giggles.

October 17 ship date.

I will have to stop you right there. I think the "backtracking" option was conceived earlier, when they noticed there would be some backlash. Kaz got questions regarding the online focus much earlier, and defended the name GT Sport due to the new focus but explained (numerous times) that this was essentially GT7.
So somewhere during the summer I think someone went "uh-oh, we'd better be ready to toss the old fans a bone".

Based on my experience, developing the League as I think it will be delivered will actually not take that much time. They have done it before, and likely may even reuse some of the code. The League content is basically "only" some graphical design, paired with triggering races with a certain setup.
Even though I do not think it was conceived after october, I actually could see that scenario as perfectly plausible as well.

All, in all, in my not so humble opinion, it is a reaction to a product launch perceived to have gone wrong. I think the frankly disastrous participation figures will further influence the future direction of the title. And to rain further on the parade, I predict that GTS will never become a successful eSport platform.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

I KNOW that. What made them NOT disclose it at ANY point from Copperbox until they, finally, did announce it - at a point when it's not going to add appreciably to sales?

Why on earth would you disclose something to the public in the product roadmap that isn’t slated to or won’t ship with the core product?

Single player isn’t even the focus of the core product.

@Scaff I was attacking his ******** argument, sir, I think TT is probably a lovely guy as most of us are

 

[Voodoovaj]

Full game development, no. However if this turns out to be a copy and paste of past GT single player modes then it's not beyond the realm of possibility at all.

Ok, since (at least) fall of 2013, they've been doing ....what exactly?

I'm going to go out on a limb (not really) and say that a "full game" has been developed and is being doled out in parts. I thought this was just a prologue when GTS came out, but this single player addition proves me wrong. They are (I'm guessing) 6 months ahead of the releases. Releases will probably always be a combination of new stuff and carry over content.

The three cars we got we probably not ready for the ship date so we got them late.