PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Tea_Leaves]

It's a joke, but you get a penalty for any perceived advantage from contact. Tap a car and slow down to give the car ahead a penalty.

Yep, I picked up several penalties this way at Interlagos. The most ridiculous was where I literally pulled over to the left, giving ample space as possible at the corner before the S-curve but because people are impatient, he made contact with my bumper (thus I'm the one gaining a speed "advantage") before slowing down so I'm given the penalty and his impatience is rewarded.

Down to SR A so maybe I'll be in for some cleaner races.

 

[Jagman XK8]

Confession time folks, I'm back in the game.

On my last day of subscription took the view 'nothing to lose' so switched to the Peugeot at Willow and recorded a sub 1:13:00 qualifying lap. This put me high on the grid and, managing to stay out of trouble most of the time with some decent drivers, I finished 3rd, 8th (driven off), 4th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd and 2nd. So points increased from 5,945 to 12,330 in one evening and I'm back in DR/B land again.

One swallow doesn't make a summer, but hopefully the update tomorrow will have taken some of our comments on board and, as I love the sport, I'm prepared to persevere and will probably bore you with more progress updates in the weeks to come.

My issue seems to be that while I can drive relatively quickly, the nerves set in when being pursued in competition and these cause silly mistakes. This is a learning process and staying cool is something I must work on.

Great forum and thanks for all the support.

 

[NAXEHT]

One guy shoves his way through and touches me, pushing me a bit wide and besides losing probably two seconds I also receive a one second penalty for... something?

Later in the race another guy comes quickly from behind in the slipstream and more or less bumpdrafts me twice, I pick up a second each in both situations. Three in total for completely innocent clean driving and down from SR 99 to 69. Absolutely insane.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

4 seconds, for what?



I guess overtaking is illegal and we should all just drive around in grid order.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I got handed 2x1second for being on the outside going two wide through two corners. No contact!

 

[Tea_Leaves]

Confession time folks, I'm back in the game.

You never truly leave GTS. /s The longest I went without Sport Mode was a week before the urge came back. For all the dirty races, the clean races keep me coming back.

I got handed 2x1second for being on the outside going two wide through two corners. No contact!

There may have been contact on his system but not yours because of lag or latency. I had a similar penalty, 1s for zero visible contact my end although I was in close proximity so possible contact on the other car's end.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's more broken than I thought. I'm trying to reset my DR to get matched with my kid, it's impossible. I've been punting (bad) people off, bumping them off at SR.C and either no penalty or they get the penalty. I'm doing the back and forth strategy to trigger SR Downs in the final lap and then quit, still go up 1 SR. One more attempt, quit straight away should do it.

 

[Redneckchef]

Confession time folks, I'm back in the game.

On my last day of subscription took the view 'nothing to lose' so switched to the Peugeot at Willow and recorded a sub 1:13:00 qualifying lap. This put me high on the grid and, managing to stay out of trouble most of the time with some decent drivers, I finished 3rd, 8th (driven off), 4th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd and 2nd. So points increased from 5,945 to 12,330 in one evening and I'm back in DR/B land again.

One swallow doesn't make a summer, but hopefully the update tomorrow will have taken some of our comments on board and, as I love the sport, I'm prepared to persevere and will probably bore you with more progress updates in the weeks to come.

My issue seems to be that while I can drive relatively quickly, the nerves set in when being pursued in competition and these cause silly mistakes. This is a learning process and staying cool is something I must work on.

Great forum and thanks for all the support.

Glad to see you hanging around. Bad races suck but there are plenty good ones to be had if you get the right grids. Staying calm while leading or having someone close behind you is really tough. I got punted wide at spoon today in 1 race C by someone after I forgot to switch back to RM after practicing on RH. No penalty for punter. He punted himself several times in the race, enjoyed it when I actually lapped him on last lap. Some justice there, but obviously none from the actual penalty system! Time to see what the update does.

 

[watto79]

We have a new penalty system tweak, whatever this means.

3. Penalty
　- Corrected an error where a collision penalty was being issued even when the “Side Contact Penalty” of the lobby penalty settings was disabled.
　- Adjusted the threshold values for penalties given when someone is pushed out.

And behold, my 6 second penalty and all the damage for driving through a ghost serving a penalty

 

[BaareCZ]

4 seconds, for what?



I guess overtaking is illegal and we should all just drive around in grid order.

Wow, that spanish guy is A+? How the hell did that happen? Don't you just love the players who drive like they're alone on the track even when there's a car right next to them? So, the game gave you a "Forced Another Car Off the Track" penalty but it waited until the car had actually been slammed into the shadow realm by the portuguese player behind you. Well done penalty system.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@watto79 You hit the solid ghost glitch. You passed through him right as his timer reaches 0.0, that's when penalty serving cars go solid for a split second. You hear the collision, the ghost is not effected, but since you passed him / go faster, 6 sec penalty for you. Not fixed.

 

[watto79]

@watto79 You hit the solid ghost glitch. You passed through him right as his timer reaches 0.0, that's when penalty serving cars go solid for a split second. You hear the collision, the ghost is not effected, but since you passed him / go faster, 6 sec penalty for you. Not fixed.

Ha, it frightened the life out of me. My wheel went completely dead and it took a while to work out what was going on.

This was yesterday though so MAY have been fixed in todays update. Hopeful I know.

 

[timekiller001]

Wow, that spanish guy is A+? How the hell did that happen? Don't you just love the players who drive like they're alone on the track even when there's a car right next to them? So, the game gave you a "Forced Another Car Off the Track" penalty but it waited until the car had actually been slammed into the shadow realm by the portuguese player behind you. Well done penalty system.

To be fair, while it's not good racing of him, it can happen quite easily when you forget to look. He might have been completely unaware of your existence there if he had hood cam and no radar on. Penalty is a joke though but that's what it is now

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Wow, that spanish guy is A+? How the hell did that happen? Don't you just love the players who drive like they're alone on the track even when there's a car right next to them? So, the game gave you a "Forced Another Car Off the Track" penalty but it waited until the car had actually been slammed into the shadow realm by the portuguese player behind you. Well done penalty system.

It was his fault but not deliberate. With the tyre rules this week the pace differences are huge, you don't realise you're racing somebody on fresh tyres because they're a couple of seconds behind but that is nothing after a few corners. I'm guessing it was bumper cam since he didn't see that I was fully alongside/ahead.

I had a 10s penalty for exactly the same thing on my other account so I was probably getting a penalty whatever, the Portuguese player got 5 for this one so maybe we shared it.

 

[O604]

This will sound elitist and I hope it doesn't offend anyone but I feel the quality of driving took a big dive in Oct 2019 (Spec 2) and hasn't improved as much as it should. Hence the Penalty system hasn't been able to adjust.

I think the players who bought the game after Spec 2 tend to be newer to the GT Series. Thus less invested in the longer game/more likely to jump in and play.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

This will sound elitist and I hope it doesn't offend anyone but I feel the quality of driving took a big dive in Oct 2019 (Spec 2) and hasn't improved as much as it should. Hence the Penalty system hasn't been able to adjust.

I think the players who bought the game after Spec 2 tend to be newer to the GT Series. Thus less invested in the longer game/more likely to jump in and play.

I think the worst was the ability to download and follow ghosts. Everyone are following the exact same line all the time, no one can adjust to traffic...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I did a bunch of races on Big Willow this morning and it seems there have been no changes at all to the penalty system.

Another month waiting for a fix to the SR and penalty system.

 

[O604]

I think the worst was the ability to download and follow ghosts. Everyone are following the exact same line all the time, no one can adjust to traffic...

That's part of it. Teaching people how to run before learning to walk. Also the game AI basically encourages gaming. I think that's a big part of it too.

Adjusting to traffic is more the lack of experience/motorsport knowledge I think. It's a game based on real rules. Things like "try not to hit other cars" shouldn't have to be said. Its like a track and field game where you have to say " don't trip other players". It should be painfully obvious.

 

[milehighmadd]

I did a bunch of races on Big Willow this morning and it seems there have been no changes at all to the penalty system.

Another month waiting for a fix to the SR and penalty system.

Your video might be the most egregious display of how crappy the penalty system is. Even when you got out of the way of the one guy, he passed you, and you STILL got a penalty for nothing. Then you get forced off the road and take a 2s hit. Absolutely zero consistency that particular race.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

I did a bunch of races on Big Willow this morning and it seems there have been no changes at all to the penalty system.

Another month waiting for a fix to the SR and penalty system.

They are all hilarious!!!!!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

They are all hilarious!!!!!

The last one, "forced another car off track". Does PD think I have one of these hidden in the back of my car

How can I be on the outside and force another car off the road on that side of the road

I wonder how it will play out at Monza. Dive bomb contact a car in the chicane, skip the second part (free shortcut). The victim gets a speed advantage from the bump, but the diver bomb goes off track, should be no penalty for either with the current system. So I guess it's an 'improvement' over the old get a penalty when dive bomber touches you and skips the second part of the first/second chicane. Ascari and the final turn you can probably freely punt people off since there is no wall near for a 1-2 (speed advantage vs off-track + wall hit) situation to give the punter a penalty.

Hmm where was I in Dirt Rally 2.

 

[CrimsonKing]

4 seconds, for what?



I guess overtaking is illegal and we should all just drive around in grid order.

I sometimes think that's what PD want, they want us to just peacefully drive around their favorite tracks while admiring the scenery while not even coming close to one another. They should just make all the cars ghosts and be done with any attempts at developing a penalty system.

 

[oneloops]

They are all hilarious!!!!!

The system can be improved, but making it a 100% justice system is an erreur : zero risk for others mistakes.

Hilarious in my opinion would be no consequences for anyone after a crash.
Consequences have not to be the same for both after a crash, neither they have to be 100% predictable.

No contact, no crash = 0 penaltys, people don't understand this yet...
If you are involved in an incident you have to asume hard consequences, even if it's not your fault.

In people complaining I see very often not enough care avoiding contact. This is the main problem in my opinion, we all have to work on this,
... instead of crashing 10 times per race and complaining about 5 penaltys of them.

Look how many non-justice consequences there are in real racing, very often innocent drivers get hard or harder punishment than guilty drivers :

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@oneloops You can punt people off in the current system as well, with neither getting a penalty! (most of the time)
So yep, every race has hilarious situations with people getting rammed and punted off with zero consequences.

Nobody is asking for a 100% justice system, however atm we have one that's doing a worse job than a random number generator.

We don't even need a penalty system, simply SR Down for contact would already start cleaning up the SR ranks. Equal fault is already much better than giving the wrong car a penalty or nothing at all. Since it's worse than random atm, with zero consequences for contact, clean and dirty drivers are all mixed up. It was better when the penalty system was completely off since passing dirty meant getting punted off next corner.

Anyway, why would you want to simulate the worst of racing? (victims getting off worst)

 

[oneloops]

@oneloops You can punt people off in the current system as well, with neither getting a penalty! (most of the time)
So yep, every race has hilarious situations with people getting rammed and punted off with zero consequences.

Nobody is asking for a 100% justice system, however atm we have one that's doing a worse job than a random number generator.

We don't even need a penalty system, simply SR Down for contact would already start cleaning up the SR ranks. Equal fault is already much better than giving the wrong car a penalty or nothing at all. Since it's worse than random atm, with zero consequences for contact, clean and dirty drivers are all mixed up. It was better when the penalty system was completely off since passing dirty meant getting punted off next corner.

Anyway, why would you want to simulate the worst of racing? (victims getting off worst)

I agree that the system must be improved.

"victims getting off worst" is not the worst nor the better, is part of real racing : High risk, even death, when it's not even our fault.

When racing we have to asume that anothers mistakes or bad intentions can cause consequences and death.

Racing without that risk of "victims getting off worst" would be like playing cards with ourselves, zero emotion, zero risk.
Some guilty drivers have less consequences than victims in real racing. In GTS it should be less often than now, but it has to be there that risk.

Equal fault could be a good solution and I'm curious about how it goes with GTS drivers, maybe it's the better solution , even if it removes a lot of risk.

But for now, with the actual system, I think we all have to focus in zero contact (so zero penaltys), that's the way I enjoy the most, like if the car was real and mine and I have to keep it safe and intact at the same time that I race very close to others.

 

[Bloodytears]

I agree that the system must be improved.

"victims getting off worst" is not the worst nor the better, is part of real racing : High risk, even death, when it's not even our fault.

When racing we have to asume that anothers mistakes or bad intentions can cause consequences and death.

Racing without that risk of "victims getting off worst" would be like playing cards with ourselves, zero emotion, zero risk.
Some guilty drivers have less consequences than victims in real racing. In GTS it should be less often than now, but it has to be there that risk.

Equal fault could be a good solution and I'm curious about how it goes with GTS drivers, maybe it's the better solution , even if it removes a lot of risk.

But for now, with the actual system, I think we all have to focus in zero contact (so zero penaltys), that's the way I enjoy the most, like if the car was real and mine and I have to keep it safe and intact at the same time that I race very close to others.

Point of those complaints in this thread are not about risks and such serious accidents. Penalty system should adjust unfair gaining, but it's throwing big numbers at very random in gt sport, putting players in situations where no gain happened, but they still punished. In actual racing slight contact usually gets ignored and in prior damaged aero is the best reminder about how wrong it was. In GT though for a slight contact you get 2-5 seconds, and you'll be lucky if game at least decided to punish both drivers, instead of random, usually victim side.
Last week I have played, and received 6 seconds worth penalty only for an other guy's slight bumps on my rear bumper. It could change nothing otherwise, but I have lost a lot positions.

Current system is what you want, because there is no difference, you can cause "death" or a minor contact, the outcome will be the same.

 

[oneloops]

Point of those complaints in this thread are not about risks and such serious accidents. Penalty system should adjust unfair gaining, but it's throwing big numbers at very random in gt sport, putting players in situations where no gain happened, but they still punished. In actual racing slight contact usually gets ignored and in prior damaged aero is the best reminder about how wrong it was. In GT though for a slight contact you get 2-5 seconds, and you'll be lucky if game at least decided to punish both drivers, instead of random, usually victim side.
Last week I have played, and received 6 seconds worth penalty only for an other guy's slight bumps on my rear bumper. It could change nothing otherwise, but I have lost a lot positions.

Current system is what you want, because there is no difference, you can cause "death" or a minor contact, the outcome will be the same.

Unfair gaining is not the most often I use to experience in GTS after contacts and penaltys. It happens sometimes, yes, but the most times don't. The most times is neutral or fair consequences, but when people make 5 or 10 crash per race they can expect 1 or 2 or 3 unfair consequences ...
and it happens in real racing too in relative high frecuency.

In GTS, slight contact has no penalty usually, but it can have it sometimes, like in real racing it can break an aero part (with some seconds of less performance in the overall of the race), or a slightly damage in a wheel, or a slow puncture with more seconds losts in a real race.

If we don't avoid 5 or 10 touches or crashes per race we have a lot more of probabilities to get a big and unfair penalty.

This is what I see the most : drivers that have usually a lot of crashes per race and they complain about the worst one or two penaltys for them... They don't focus in zero contact.

Not avoiding contact we are giving more chances to dirty drivers to take unfair gaining once or twice per race, and we motivate them to drive always at that dirty level.

 

[aleps45]

sorry, but you did not undertand the point, it is clear that racing the risk is always present, the risk of getting hurt or ending a race becauae of others, there is. I understand that in GTS incorrect players cannot be eliminated ok, they destroy the game, but we have to live with it. I'm very careful not to have contact, but i'm powerless toward those who decide to compete in an unfair way, I would just avoid damage and insult. If you decide to hit me in a corner to pass me, you already create damage to me, but if your push make me hit another player and I receive a penalty it is absolutely unacceptable, especially if you don't suffer penalty.It is as if there were 3 people in a row near the rail track.The one behind pushes the one in the middle that hits the one in front and that dies ander a train, then the one who pushe first time goes home quietly and the one in the middle goes to the prison without any fault.

Unfair gaining is not the most often I use to experience in GTS after contacts and penaltys. It happens sometimes, yes, but the most times don't. The most times is neutral or fair consequences, but when people make 5 or 10 crash per race they can expect 1 or 2 or 3 unfair consequences ...
and it happens in real racing too in relative high frecuency.

In GTS, slight contact has no penalty usually, but it can have it sometimes, like in real racing it can break an aero part (with some seconds of less performance in the overall of the race), or a slightly damage in a wheel, or a slow puncture with more seconds losts in a real race.

If we don't avoid 5 or 10 touches or crashes per race we have a lot more of probabilities to get a big and unfair penalty.

This is what I see the most : drivers that have usually a lot of crashes per race and they complain about the worst one or two penaltys for them... They don't focus in zero contact.

Not avoiding contact we are giving more chances to dirty drivers to take unfair gaining once or twice per race, and we motivate them to drive always at that dirty level.

 

[oneloops]

sorry, but you did not undertand the point, it is clear that racing the risk is always present, the risk of getting hurt or ending a race becauae of others, there is. I understand that in GTS incorrect players cannot be eliminated ok, they destroy the game, but we have to live with it. I'm very careful not to have contact, but i'm powerless toward those who decide to compete in an unfair way, I would just avoid damage and insult. If you decide to hit me in a corner to pass me, you already create damage to me, but if your push make me hit another player and I receive a penalty it is absolutely unacceptable, especially if you don't suffer penalty.It is as if there were 3 people in a row near the rail track.The one behind pushes the one in the middle that hits the one in front and that dies ander a train, then the one who pushe first time goes home quietly and the one in the middle goes to the prison without any fault.

I don't feel at all powerless toward those who compete in an unfair way in GTS.

I did my test if a could go up from 18000 to 42000 points and dirty drivers haven't stopped me to go up. I raced always clean and I like close racing without contact. Maybe 2 or 3 races of 10 they have stop me a little... but that happens in real racing too, other drivers mistakes or bad intentions can ruin you some races, it's part of the risk.

In some multiples crashes in real racing the one less guilty has the harder consequences. You can see the video up about f1 crashes, there are a lot of innocent drivers getting off the race by others actions. Real racing is not about justice but about unpredictable consequences and high risk very often.

If the system was broken the dirtiest drivers should be at the top of DR points and that is not the case. Some injustice and unpredictable consequences in crashes is not broken, that happens in real racing too.

The penalty system has a lot to improve but it doesn't ruin as much races as people say... that people make very often 10 crashes or contacts by race and they complain about 2 or 3 of them that have the worst consequences on them... the goal is zero contact, not 10 crashes per race and 10 fair consequences per race.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I don't feel at all powerless toward those who compete in an unfair way.

I did my test if a could go up from 18000 to 42000 points and dirty drivers haven't stopped me to go up. I raced always clean and I like close racing without contact. Maybe 2 or 3 races of 10 they have stop me a little... but that happens in real racing too, other drivers mistakes or bad intentions can ruin you some races, it's part of the risk.

In some multiples crashes in real racing the one less guilty has the harder consequences. You can see the video up about f1 crashes, there are a lot of innocent drivers getting off the race by others actions. Real racing is not about justice but about unpredictable consequences and high risk very often.

If the system was broken the dirtiest drivers should be at the top of DR points and that is not the case. Some injustice and unpredictable consequences in crashes is not broken, that happens in real racing too.

Erm, the dirtiest drivers do not want to be at the top of the DR points. They are however the ones with the highest win ratio and total wins. DR resets, lowering SR or simply getting away with dirty manoevers for the victory.

I've reached A+ 4 or 5 times as well, sure it's possible driving clean. I even almost reached A+ without qualifying, I actually saw @GOTMAXPOWER do it on his alt account with a broken penalty system. That doesn't mean the system is anywhere near ok. Actually starting from the back, the dirtier the drivers in the race, the higher you can climb up easily since they'll be taking cars out left and right and each other and you can easily drive by. The fact that I can climb up so easily from the back proves there are too many dirty drivers in SR.S abusing the system.

I don't feel powerless either, intentionally bump me off, good chance I'll catch up and get my pound of flesh However those qualifying and driving at the top of their pace from the start don't have such options and are actually trying to get to better DR and hopefully cleaner races. You and I generally start below our pace and have plenty 'spare' pace to avoid and catch back up.

Anyway a disconnect is still far worse than dirty drivers bumping you off when it comes to DR. Nowadays almost half always seems to quit before the end, simply finishing the race already earns you DR lol.