PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Gr8_Lakes]

In real life racing we can't brake before the braking zone if we want to stop or distub our rivals, that's unsportsmanlike. That's why in GTS the punted driver can get a penalty, because if not, anyone could use this tip to block and slow down other drivers.
We have to accept some unfair consequences in GTS in order to avoid this "easy to do unsportsmanlike tip".

Even if it's subtle that is unsportmanslike.

You can be a honest driver and try to beat rivals being faster than them... or you can be not honest nor gentleman and try to win making them slow, blocking and bothering them... it's an ethics matter even if both can be allowed when subtled done it's difficult to demonstrate unsportmanslike intentions.

I prefer racing in a honest way, if someone is faster than me I can defend a line with a change of line once and not at the lastest moment and I don't try to block him nor making him going slower.

I completely disagree with this philosophy. There is no “required braking zone” for a leading driver. The car in front is entitled to his racing line, brake markers, and how he or she wishes to defend the position. There’s nothing unethical about braking a bit earlier in an effort to attack the apex and get an optimal launch for the next straight. Frankly, if the following driver is faster, they should be able to capitalize on the leader’s early braking and out-brake them into a strategic corner. This is what the heat of battle is all about. Gauging your opponent and trying to out-maneuver them. It’s not unsportsmanlike to drive your style, and a person shouldn’t fear being rammed into because they didn’t wait until the last possible moment to brake. Otherwise we should just ghost all the cars and run time trials.

When I’m following a driver, I understand it’s my responsibility to not make contact with him/her, regardless of where they begin braking for a corner. It’s also my responsibility to pass them in a safe manner that avoids contact if I’m faster. That is, if I’m faster and they leave an opening. Racing is about out-driving your opponent. That doesn’t always mean the fastest “lapper” wins, otherwise (again) we’d just be doing time trials.

Perhaps I’ve missed your point, and you’re referring to blatant brake-checking, swerving back and forth, and causing intentional contact from the lead. Sure, that’s absolutely, undeniably, dirty, and unsportsmanlike. But I would never push my brake zones deeper than what I’m comfortable with just because the driver behind me thinks I should brake later and harder. Nor would I just pull aside because I see they are closing in on me at the end of straights. I’ll defend my position fairly, and if they’re truly faster, they’ll find a way around me. Better still, if they are indeed faster, they’ll get around me without contact; because I usually know if I’ve lost the position while they’re still beside me, and I’ll leave a fair lane without making contact with them. Frankly, that’s the most rewarding type of online racing there is, win or lose.

 

[oneloops]

I completely disagree with this philosophy. There is no “required braking zone” for a leading driver. The car in front is entitled to his racing line, brake markers, and how he or she wishes to defend the position. There’s nothing unethical about braking a bit earlier in an effort to attack the apex and get an optimal launch for the next straight. Frankly, if the following driver is faster, they should be able to capitalize on the leader’s early braking and out-brake them into a strategic corner. This is what the heat of battle is all about. Gauging your opponent and trying to out-maneuver them. It’s not unsportsmanlike to drive your style, and a person shouldn’t fear being rammed into because they didn’t wait until the last possible moment to brake. Otherwise we should just ghost all the cars and run time trials.

When I’m following a driver, I understand it’s my responsibility to not make contact with him/her, regardless of where they begin braking for a corner. It’s also my responsibility to pass them in a safe manner that avoids contact if I’m faster. That is, if I’m faster and they leave an opening. Racing is about out-driving your opponent. That doesn’t always mean the fastest “lapper” wins, otherwise (again) we’d just be doing time trials.

Perhaps I’ve missed your point, and you’re referring to blatant brake-checking, swerving back and forth, and causing intentional contact from the lead. Sure, that’s absolutely, undeniably, dirty, and unsportsmanlike. But I would never push my brake zones deeper than what I’m comfortable with just because the driver behind me thinks I should brake later and harder. Nor would I just pull aside because I see they are closing in on me at the end of straights. I’ll defend my position fairly, and if they’re truly faster, they’ll find a way around me. Better still, if they are indeed faster, they’ll get around me without contact; because I usually know if I’ve lost the position while they’re still beside me, and I’ll leave a fair lane without making contact with them. Frankly, that’s the most rewarding type of online racing there is, win or lose.

I try to keep the same braking points or a bit later if he is attacking or if we are two wide in order to keep me ahead.

But I never try to make him go slower braking before I use to, nor accelerating later than I use to.

That's blocking, bothering and unsportmanslike IMO.

 

[nan0]

Seems like the current iteration completely ignores back punts and absolutely destroys you on side contact. I'm the red GT-R.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I completely disagree with this philosophy. There is no “required braking zone” for a leading driver. The car in front is entitled to his racing line, brake markers, and how he or she wishes to defend the position. There’s nothing unethical about braking a bit earlier in an effort to attack the apex and get an optimal launch for the next straight. Frankly, if the following driver is faster, they should be able to capitalize on the leader’s early braking and out-brake them into a strategic corner. This is what the heat of battle is all about. Gauging your opponent and trying to out-maneuver them. It’s not unsportsmanlike to drive your style, and a person shouldn’t fear being rammed into because they didn’t wait until the last possible moment to brake. Otherwise we should just ghost all the cars and run time trials.

When I’m following a driver, I understand it’s my responsibility to not make contact with him/her, regardless of where they begin braking for a corner. It’s also my responsibility to pass them in a safe manner that avoids contact if I’m faster. That is, if I’m faster and they leave an opening. Racing is about out-driving your opponent. That doesn’t always mean the fastest “lapper” wins, otherwise (again) we’d just be doing time trials.

Perhaps I’ve missed your point, and you’re referring to blatant brake-checking, swerving back and forth, and causing intentional contact from the lead. Sure, that’s absolutely, undeniably, dirty, and unsportsmanlike. But I would never push my brake zones deeper than what I’m comfortable with just because the driver behind me thinks I should brake later and harder. Nor would I just pull aside because I see they are closing in on me at the end of straights. I’ll defend my position fairly, and if they’re truly faster, they’ll find a way around me. Better still, if they are indeed faster, they’ll get around me without contact; because I usually know if I’ve lost the position while they’re still beside me, and I’ll leave a fair lane without making contact with them. Frankly, that’s the most rewarding type of online racing there is, win or lose.

Now, this is what we all want. I used to think that even PD wanted this, but it would seem that they don't. As of now the penalty system is set so that you can just ran anyone ahead of you off with no consequence to you, but if you drive a close but fair fight the outside car gets a penalty for doing nothing wrong.
And apparently that's how PD likes it....

 

[oneloops]

Seems like the current iteration completely ignores back punts and absolutely destroys you on side contact. I'm the red GT-R.

You can see he brakes in turn1, maybe you have braked too much causing that collision ? We don't see if he gets a penalty because the video is cut too early.

On side contact penaltys it's a mess driving with controller + lag + fast cars like gr2 and formulas. Turning in polylines instead of curves... For this kind of cars maybe sportmode races should be separated wheel drivers /controller drivers.

 

[fastone371]

Even if it's subtle that is unsportmanslike.

You can be a honest driver and try to beat rivals being faster than them... or you can be not honest nor gentleman and try to win making them slow, blocking and bothering them... it's an ethics matter even if both can be allowed when subtled done it's difficult to demonstrate unsportmanslike intentions.

I prefer racing in a honest way, if someone is faster than me I can defend a line with a change of line once and not at the lastest moment and I don't try to block him nor making him going slower.

Watch some of the Formula 1 you use as an example some time, they all will intentionally slow the car down behind them if it is to their advantage and do not get punished for it. That was exactly the problem when they had the first KERS system that worked on a button, it became a "press to defend" instead of a "press to pass" system.
Plus not all cars handle the same especially in real life, they will have different braking points and different points where they pick up the throttle, if they are on a different tire strategy the difference can be vast.

 

[oneloops]

Watch some of the Formula 1 you use as an example some time, they all will intentionally slow the car down behind them if it is to their advantage and do not get punished for it. That was exactly the problem when they had the first KERS system that worked on a button, it became a "press to defend" instead of a "press to pass" system.

Press KERS to defend going faster, not going slower nor making the car behind slower.

Yes, in F1 almost everybody intentionally slow down the car behind them because of such of difference among cars and among tyres compounds... it's allowed in a subtled way but still unsportmanslike IMO...

I understand doing that is often the only way to win places over a lot quicker cars... it's very sad the performance disparity level in F1... and many rules trying to equal that in an overartificial way.

It's sad and unsportsmanlike for a championship having to allow blocking. (Many times it's difficult to prove and that's a problem too).

Fraga slowing down Hizal in Eau Rouge was unsportmanslike or not ? For me yes. He touched brakes in a flat out zone with the only intention to slow down to Hizal.

 

[killerjimbag]

Press KERS to defend going faster, not going slower nor making the car behind slower.

Yes, in F1 almost everybody intentionally solw down the car behind them because of such of difference among cars and among tyres compounds... it's allowed in a subtled way but still unsportmanslike IMO...

I understand doing that is often the only way to win places over a lot quicker cars... it's very sad the performance disparity level in F1... and many rules trying to equal that in an overartificial way.

It's sad and unsportsmanlike for a championship having to allow blocking. (Many times it's difficult to prove and that's a problem).

Fraga slowing down Hizal in Eau Rouge was unsportmanslike or not ? For me yes. He touched brakes in a flat out zone with the only intention to slow down to Hizal.

Have you watched a Nascar race? Or actually any racing?

 

[aleps45]

You can see he brakes in turn1, maybe you have braked too much causing that collision ? We don't see if he gets a penalty because the video is cut too early.

On side contact penaltys it's a mess driving with controller + lag + fast cars like gr2 and formulas. Turning in polylines instead of curves... For this kind of cars maybe sportmode races should be separated wheel drivers /controller drivers.

are you serious? now we are not watching if at turn 1 the car that followed took or did not take a penalty (the video lasted long, and did not take it), but how do you justify the 7 seconds of penalty that the red car took ? if there were any contacts they were imperceptible and certainly not dictated by incorrectness on the part of any of the 2 players, and none had any damage or advantage, but 7 seconds of penalty throw your race away at 2 laps from the end, and procure a descent of the ranking without any fault, in addition to the next corner you are thrown off the track and nothing happens.

 

[oneloops]

Have you watched a Nascar race? Or actually any racing?

Nascar has his own rules.

Each championship has theirs own rules and Nascar is a extreme of it.

For example any contact in F1 can be over investigation. It's not the same in Nascar.

are you serious? now we are not watching if at turn 1 the car that followed took or did not take a penalty (the video lasted long, and did not take it), but how do you justify the 7 seconds of penalty that the red car took ? if there were any contacts they were imperceptible and certainly not dictated by incorrectness on the part of any of the 2 players, and none had any damage or advantage, but 7 seconds of penalty throw your race away at 2 laps from the end, and procure a descent of the ranking without any fault, in addition to the next corner you are thrown off the track and nothing happens.

Maybe it was a lag of the grey car or a third car... we don't see everything in this incident.

But yes, unfair penalty for that one

 

[aleps45]

Finally, it was time for someone to say these words, I fully agree with you, it is my own way of running. Especially just after the start I pay a lot of attention to the cars in front of me, and for sure I don't make the first turns as I would like or as I would know, but not everyone adopts this technique and throws themselves into the kamikaze-style fray, ramming those who have in front of them that unfortunately in turn they are forced to collide other innocent pilots, and 99% of the time those who triggered the bomb do not pay, but to pay the bill are their victims, and not only in terms of lost time, destroyed trajectories and failed restarts that as our friend ONELOOPS says they are part of the risky randomness of the races .... but with penalties imposed by the system that I keep repeating it I cannot tolerate. I challenge ONELOOPS to bring me some examples in which in a real race a driver clearly damaged by the incorrect behavior of another driver and that later on the victim was also punished by the federation to which he belongs ...

 

[oneloops]

[QUOTE = "Gr8_Lakes, post: 13029877, membro: 256460"] Non sono completamente d'accordo con questa filosofia. Non esiste una "zona di frenata richiesta" per un guidatore principale. L'auto di fronte ha il diritto alla sua linea da corsa, ai marcatori dei freni e al modo in cui desideri difendere la posizione. Non c'è nulla di non etico nella frenata di un po 'prima, nel tentativo di attaccare l'apice e ottenere un lancio ottimale per la scala successiva. Francamente, se il seguente pilota è più veloce, dovrebbe essere in grado di capitalizzare il primo frenato del leader e frenarle in una curva strategica. Questo è il calore della battaglia. Misurare il tuo avversario e cercare di superarlo. Non è antisportivo guidare il tuo stile e una persona non dovrebbe temere di essere speronata perché non ha aspettato l '

Quando seguo un pilota, capisco che è mia responsabilità non entrare in contatto con lui / lei, annunciato da dove è arrivato un frenare in curva. È anche mia responsabilità passarli in modo sicuro, evitare contatti se sono più veloci. Cioè, se sono più veloci e lasciano un'apertura. Correre significa guidare fuori dal tuo avversario. Ciò non significa sempre che "il lappone" più veloce, altrimenti (di nuovo) faremmo solo delle prove a cronometro.

Forse ho perso il tuo punto e ti riferisci al controllo del freno, sterzando avanti e indietro e causando un contatto intenzionale dal comando. Certo, è assolutamente, innegabilmente, sporco e antisportivo. Ma non spingerei mai più in profondità le mie zone di frenata rispetto a quelle a mio agio solo perché il guidatore dietro di me pensa che dovrei frenare più tardi e più forte. Né mi limiterei a smettere perché vedo che si sta avvicinando a me alla fine dei rettilinei. Difenderò la mia posizione in modo equo, e sono davvero più veloci, troveranno un modo per aggirarmi. Meglio ancora, sono davvero più veloci, mi circonderanno senza contatto; perché di solito così ho perso la posizione mentre sono ancora accanto a me, e lascerò una corsia giusta senza entrare in contatto con loro. Francamente, questo è il tipo di corsa online più gratificante che ci sia, vincere o perdere. [/ PREVENTIVO]


Finally, it was time for someone to say these words, I fully agree with you, it is my own way of running. Especially just after the start I pay a lot of attention to the cars in front of me, and for sure I don't make the first turns as I would like or as I would know, but not everyone adopts this technique and throws themselves into the kamikaze-style fray, ramming those who have in front of them that unfortunately in turn they are forced to collide other innocent pilots, and 99% of the time those who triggered the bomb do not pay, but to pay the bill are their victims, and not only in terms of lost time, destroyed trajectories and failed restarts that as our friend ONELOOPS says they are part of the risky randomness of the races .... but with penalties imposed by the system that I keep repeating it I cannot tolerate. I challenge ONELOOPS to bring me some examples in which in a real race a driver clearly damaged by the incorrect behavior of another driver and that later on the victim was also punished by the federation to which he belongs ...

Damage is off. Take some penaltys as mechanical damage.

A clear example is crashing into a wall = 5 seconds penalty. That's not because "is not allowed to crash" but because GTS has to give consequences after any collision (or most of them). Sometimes is unfair, yes, sometimes penalty is not given... but that's the case too in many real racing crashes, the innocent gets often more damage than the guilty.

Take any unfair penalty as a mechanical damage penalty because of the collision given. Zero contact and zero cutting track = zero penalty.

After all many consequences for innocent drivers in real racing after a crash it's a "do not finish"... a lot more severe than GTS and its 2, 4 or 7 seconds penalty that allows us to finish... and many good recovered places racing from the back after an incident.

If 99% of guilty dirty drivers were not punished they would win all the races and leader the DR points. That's not the case.

 

[aleps45]

Exactly, in real races often the damage suffered by an innocent driver is the end of the race, on this we agree ok? But the example that I want to make by making a parallel with the GTS system is as if in real races the poor innocent driver who suffered damage by finishing his race was later punished by the race direction with a punishment in money or penalties in seconds for the next race got it ?? We know that touching the walls in GTS involves penalties, but why should I take the penalty if you push me against the wall? I have already been damaged by you as a result of pushing off the track, because the system must rage giving me additional penalties? And my speech is independent of whether you are being punished or not for pushing me out. If someone in the street shoots me a gunshot and the bullet coming out of my body kills another person, I cannot be accused of murder just because my body was unable to hold the bullet. I am Italian and I understand that I don't speak and write well in English, but I no longer know what examples to bring to make you understand my point of view. The speeches about honesty, who brakes before and who brakes after are interesting, but there is no way in my opinion to eliminate dishonest people or act on players' actions during competitions, but in your opinion the system could recognize the nature of the impacts, Could you distinguish if I hit a wall because pushed by others or push out a competitor because others have hit me? If the system can't do this then as for me then my participation in the game will no longer be as active.

 

[killerjimbag]

Nascar has his own rules.

Each championship has theirs own rules and Nascar is a extreme of it.

For example any contact in F1 can be over investigation. It's not the same in Nascar.



Maybe it was a lag of the grey car or a third car... we don't see everything in this incident.

But yes, unfair penalty for that one

What do you mean it's not the same in Nascar. You do know they race road courses in Nascar. Do you think they just drive around bashing into each other?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

You can see he brakes in turn1, maybe you have braked too much causing that collision ? We don't see if he gets a penalty because the video is cut too early.

On side contact penaltys it's a mess driving with controller + lag + fast cars like gr2 and formulas. Turning in polylines instead of curves... For this kind of cars maybe sportmode races should be separated wheel drivers /controller drivers.

Do you simply not wish to see how broken the penalty system is?

Still valid:


Have you watched these?

I'm 1000% sure the other car did not get a penalty, first car did not brake too early, that's nonsense. If he braked too early he would not be flying off the track!!!

I'm getting tired off you defending a totally broken system that's worse than chance. This has nothing to do with the risks of racing and avoiding accidents for your own benefit. It's simply as my greeting message states "Drive clean = get penalty, Drive dirty = get rewarded" That's the current system.

But the SR loss per penalty has been reduced to half (-5 now instead of -10). SR Downs are still missing, SR gains for race C are still very high (over 20 per race). So yep, staying in SR.S is easier than ever which is why racing is so crap right now.

99% of dirty driving is not punished, only rewarded. Not all dirty drivers can win all the races, only one can win lol.

 

[fastone371]

Press KERS to defend going faster, not going slower nor making the car behind slower.

Yes, in F1 almost everybody intentionally slow down the car behind them because of such of difference among cars and among tyres compounds... it's allowed in a subtled way but still unsportmanslike IMO...

I understand doing that is often the only way to win places over a lot quicker cars... it's very sad the performance disparity level in F1... and many rules trying to equal that in an overartificial way.

It's sad and unsportsmanlike for a championship having to allow blocking. (Many times it's difficult to prove and that's a problem too).

Fraga slowing down Hizal in Eau Rouge was unsportmanslike or not ? For me yes. He touched brakes in a flat out zone with the only intention to slow down to Hizal.

The KERS was often used by the front car only where the car behind had an advantage and the slower car in front would then drive much slower thru the difficult to pass sections of track. Watch some of the old KERS equipped races, you could see how they would defend with KERS.

 

[oneloops]

What do you mean it's not the same in Nascar. You do know they race road courses in Nascar. Do you think they just drive around bashing into each other?

In ovals races, Nascar rules allows a lot more contact and pushing that FIA races.

Do you simply not wish to see how broken the penalty system is?

Still valid:


Have you watched these?

I'm 1000% sure the other car did not get a penalty, first car did not brake too early, that's nonsense. If he braked too early he would not be flying off the track!!!

I'm getting tired off you defending a totally broken system that's worse than chance. This has nothing to do with the risks of racing and avoiding accidents for your own benefit. It's simply as my greeting message states "Drive clean = get penalty, Drive dirty = get rewarded" That's the current system.

But the SR loss per penalty has been reduced to half (-5 now instead of -10). SR Downs are still missing, SR gains for race C are still very high (over 20 per race). So yep, staying in SR.S is easier than ever which is why racing is so crap right now.

99% of dirty driving is not punished, only rewarded. Not all dirty drivers can win all the races, only one can win lol.

"99% of dirty driving is not punished" this is not true.

I only defend some cases and some (not all) unfair consequences that have to be unfair because if not it's is completely 0 risk, 0 consequences after other drivers mistakes.

Penalty system have to be improved, but we can't complain about 2 or 3 penaltys after 10 crashes per race like many people does.
If I run with care, focusing in zero contact, I can accept 2 or 3 races with unfair penaltys (consequences) over 10, because that happens in real racing too.

The KERS was often used by the front car only where the car behind had an advantage and the slower car in front would then drive much slower thru the difficult to pass sections of track. Watch some of the old KERS equipped races, you could see how they would defend with KERS.

But KERS doesn't makes you slow down your rivals, it's when KERS is not activated when some drivers slow down other drivers, and that's is when IMO they are driving unsportmanlike.

 

[killerjimbag]

In ovals races, Nascar rules allows a lot more contact and pushing that FIA races.

Ok I don't know if it's a misunderstanding of English or a misunderstanding of racing in general. They don't drive around in Nascar smashing and pushing their way around the track. Front and rear damage occurs and cars tend to stick together or get "hooked". I'm sure you saw the Daytona finish. Hooked and turned into the wall. Clearly blocking his line and almost getting killed doing it. DTM series cars tend to bump,as well as other series of racing. Everything is not F1 rules. Drivers block all the time. Google drivers blocking
Should clear up some facts for you.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Do you simply not wish to see how broken the penalty system is?

Still valid:


Have you watched these?

I'm 1000% sure the other car did not get a penalty, first car did not brake too early, that's nonsense. If he braked too early he would not be flying off the track!!!

I'm getting tired off you defending a totally broken system that's worse than chance. This has nothing to do with the risks of racing and avoiding accidents for your own benefit. It's simply as my greeting message states "Drive clean = get penalty, Drive dirty = get rewarded" That's the current system.

But the SR loss per penalty has been reduced to half (-5 now instead of -10). SR Downs are still missing, SR gains for race C are still very high (over 20 per race). So yep, staying in SR.S is easier than ever which is why racing is so crap right now.

99% of dirty driving is not punished, only rewarded. Not all dirty drivers can win all the races, only one can win lol.

I felt like you. Then I just blocked him, there is no reasoning so I took the irritation out of the equation.

 

[oneloops]

Ok I don't know if it's a misunderstanding of English or a misunderstanding of racing in general. They don't drive around in Nascar smashing and pushing their way around the track. Front and rear damage occurs and cars tend to stick together or get "hooked". I'm sure you saw the Daytona finish. Hooked and turned into the wall. Clearly blocking his line and almost getting killed doing it. DTM series cars tend to bump,as well as other series of racing. Everything is not F1 rules. Drivers block all the time. Google drivers blocking
Should clear up some facts for you.

So you should look all kind of european and asiatic races and compare the level of contact allowed compared to Nascar oval races.

It's not only F1, the most of FIA competitions don't allow the level of contact that Nacar does.

 

[killerjimbag]

So you should look all kind of european and asiatic races and compare the level of contact allowed compared to Nascar oval races.

It's not only F1, the most of FIA competitions don't allow the level of contact that Nacar does.

Here watch the whole series. I'm pretty sure it covers about everything except Motorcycles.
You can learn something. I've been watching motorsports since the late 60's. I'm pretty sure I've seen everything.
http://safeisfast.com/video/defending-vs-blocking/

 

[oneloops]

Here watch the whole series. You can learn something. I've been watching motorsports since the late 60's. I'm pretty sure I've seen everything.
http://safeisfast.com/video/defending-vs-blocking/

I saw that video long time ago, you don't learn me anything with it.

Something allowed in a subtle way doesn't mean that it's not unsportmanlike. Unsportmanlike often is a subjective and an ethical matter.

 

[killerjimbag]

I saw that video long time ago, you don't learn me anything with it.

Ok,continue to play a game that is clearly 🤬 up and stop complaining or defending it. Yeah you can't learn me anything from "Professional Drivers". I gotcha.

 

[oneloops]

Ok,continue to play a game that is clearly 🤬 up and stop complaining or defending it. Yeah you can't learn me anything from "Professional Drivers". I gotcha.

You can't learn me anything from a video that I already saw and I knew.

 

[BSDShoes]

there's ALWAYS going to be contact in auto racing, nobody's going to give a crap about a slight bump or door to door contact as long as it isn't a dirty move. After seeing that video and being given a +1 second penalty EVERY TIME a car touches you, is unaccepable. What has PD done to this game?

 

[oneloops]

there's ALWAYS going to be contact in auto racing, nobody's going to give a crap about a slight bump or door to door contact as long as it isn't a dirty move. After seeing that video and being given a +1 second penalty EVERY TIME a car touches you, is unaccepable. What has PD done to this game?

It doesn't happen every time, that's not true.
Most of slight contacts in GTS get zero penalty, GTS allows most of slight contacts.

 

[danardif1]

I don't have a video to hand right now because I'm on a different computer, but in the FIA race at Dragon Trail on Saturday, I got a 7 second and then immediately a separate 2 second penalty in the hairpin for what the replay shows is the most minor contact and certainly not contact initiated by me. In the same race I was hit up the back at least two times with no punishment for the driver behind... what is going on with the penalty system right now, because I could handle its minor flaws in apportioning blame before, its a computer-driven system it will always suffer with context, but I felt that if you intentionally hit another driver or made a stupid mistake you would be in trouble, but to be so heavily penalised for such minor contact that neither driver wanted to make was just ridiculous.

The 2-second one wasn't even for any contact that I could see in the replay... how are you supposed to drive when you don't even know what the limits of the rules are?

 

[kjeldsen]

there's ALWAYS going to be contact in auto racing, nobody's going to give a crap about a slight bump or door to door contact as long as it isn't a dirty move. After seeing that video and being given a +1 second penalty EVERY TIME a car touches you, is unaccepable. What has PD done to this game?

The thing is that giving penalties to both players for every contact is better than no penalties at all. The current system does not work. The only people who gains from it are people that aren't fast enough to pass without making dirty moves or those that have so little self esteem in real life they have to annoy others to feel better. I feel sorry for them, but i would rather have them play something else and have my fun in GT-Sport.

 

[fastone371]

In ovals races, Nascar rules allows a lot more contact and pushing that FIA races.



"99% of dirty driving is not punished" this is not true.

I only defend some cases and some (not all) unfair consequences that have to be unfair because if not it's is completely 0 risk, 0 consequences after other drivers mistakes.

Penalty system have to be improved, but we can't complain about 2 or 3 penaltys after 10 crashes per race like many people does.
If I run with care, focusing in zero contact, I can accept 2 or 3 races with unfair penaltys (consequences) over 10, because that happens in real racing too.



But KERS doesn't makes you slow down your rivals, it's when KERS is not activated when some drivers slow down other drivers, and that's is when IMO they are driving unsportmanlike.

One can not reasonably dictate how fast a driver should drive. Everyone will ultimately drive at a pace that the car and driver together can compete at.

 

[oneloops]

One can not reasonably dictate how fast a driver should drive. Everyone will ultimately drive at a pace that the car and driver together can compete at.

In modern motorsport, telemetry can reasonable tell if a driver is in pupose going too slow (compared to himself) and if he is driving in an unsportmanlike way.

FIA regulations, article 27.4 (it's the same text that article 30.14 of ADAC sporting regulations) :
"27.4 At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be
deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person. "

If you brake too early in order to slow down the car behind you, it can be potentially dangerous to other drivers.
Even if you block the turn exits going too slow, that can provoque an accident.
Of course "unnecessarily slowly" is a subjective messure, and in a subtle way is allowed, but it is still unsportmanlike IMO.

The bigger problem about this matter is that there is not a quantity or % to be considered not allowed in FIA regulations... Each case is studied in its context...
It's a subjective issue, so still more difficult to everybody have consensus with the rules in a game or sim.
You'll have your opinion and I'll have mine about when and how much it is unsportmanlike slowing down rivals.