PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Groundfish]

I don't think you can apply that 'rule' to the first incident since the overtaking car was on the outside line where you can brake later and carry speed deeper into the corner without risking anybody else's car, if that means you get to the middle of the corner ahead you have the right to remain on the track, as the general rule says "All the time you have to leave a space!". Also, how are you defining corner entrance? If it is turn in point my front bumper if pretty much at his door for the first corner

The general rule does not say that at all and you are simply in error for the reasons previously explained.
That was a ridiculous arcade move that no professional would ever even try on a real track in a gt car.
You never had a right to the space.
Now, I understand this is a video game, guy was slow and lower dr than yourself and you were not qualifying and all that fine. I mean we’re not actually killing baby seals with clubs and playing the game is fun from no qual sometimes. All is good.
But you never earned control of that corner then you just smashed him off.
I mean honestly the game let you off easy.
That’s jmo.
To me the biggest issue in the sr system is a car spinning off coming back shooting off track and then giving a penalty if that car kissed your paint.
Corners wise I think it’s working pretty well right now, again jmo

 

[Norrin Radd]

It’s silly because if I crash into you and you get a pen, I didn’t give you the penalty, the game decides that. Your grievance against me giving you a pen is silly because it’s not my fault the system is broken (you can be angry with me for crashing into you though obviously). If however we move to shared fault and I decide I don’t like you and bump you around on purpose so you get a penalty for every contact that you didn’t deserve, that would be my fault and your grievance against me would be fair.

There will always be dirty/cheating players in all levels. No penalty system will stop this even shared fault. The majority wants clean racing and for the most part we have that, I’m sure most incidents are mistakes or just over aggressiveness which is part of racing.

The majority don’t drive around trying to give others penalties, so why penalise all with shared fault when it is only the minority playing the system.

A lot seem to forget that other than those who are at world finals, and you could argue even them, we are all non professionals, people will make mistakes some minor and some major. If you assume people are just trying to have a fun time, and stop assuming everyone is dirty you might find that dirty drivers aren’t actually that common.

I can believe up where you drive life is like that, but down here with the scrubs it's totally different. People don't understand the rules and get annoyed so the bash anything they can bash, yes you do get clean drivers and even clean races but it's not the norm. Any sort of penalty system should be looking to teach people more than punish them and virtually all motor sport is non contact, hell even stock cars was supposed to be not contact when I did it, except demolition. We have a system that keeps your DR down if you play fairly and let's you repair the more important SR in 2 or 3 games even if you drive like a moron all the rest of the time.

 

[sturk0167]

Another problem is that the penalties are not uniform.
At the Miyabi race, this week, front-to-back penalties, and side contact penalties are completely turned off.
Only knocking a car off track gets a penalty (sometimes).

 

[Groundfish]

Another problem is that the penalties are not uniform.
At the Miyabi race, this week, front-to-back penalties, and side contact penalties are completely turned off.
Only knocking a car off track gets a penalty (sometimes).

How was the racing?
I noticed the last A race I did it seemed side to side was turned off...

 

[sturk0167]

How was the racing?
I noticed the last A race I did it seemed side to side was turned off...

Well, for me it's good.
Not to sound cocky, but I can pretty much win every race, which kind of makes it uninteresting.
I should've waited later in the week to qualify.
But, on the plus side, my alt account has reached a new peak of 45k.
I am sure that LeMans will drop me back to the 30s next week.

 

[Kermit_2142]

I can believe up where you drive life is like that, but down here with the scrubs it's totally different. People don't understand the rules and get annoyed so the bash anything they can bash, yes you do get clean drivers and even clean races but it's not the norm. Any sort of penalty system should be looking to teach people more than punish them and virtually all motor sport is non contact, hell even stock cars was supposed to be not contact when I did it, except demolition. We have a system that keeps your DR down if you play fairly and let's you repair the more important SR in 2 or 3 games even if you drive like a moron all the rest of the time.

I agree with this ^^

the lower DR levels C/D are pretty chaotic but I don’t think it’s because people are dirty. They just lack skill/experience/don’t know/ or don’t care. You can’t be dirty if you don’t know what dirty is or are just low in skill/experience.
The penalty system down there is completely different to at B and A which means it’s not teaching them and they’re not learning. Then they get promoted to B and cause absolute havoc and don’t understand why. I get that new players need some time to get used to online sport but imo the penalty system should be the same from the minute your allowed to rank up. 👍

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

6 Seconds of penalties in just over a minute, ignore 0:30, I thought I would have the penalty to serve:

 

[Groundfish]

Well, for me it's good.
Not to sound cocky, but I can pretty much win every race, which kind of makes it uninteresting.
I should've waited later in the week to qualify.
But, on the plus side, my alt account has reached a new peak of 45k.
I am sure that LeMans will drop me back to the 30s next week.

I’ve been qualifying lately also, mines also almost 50k again. So I’ve been warming up before racing, and not doing race after race.
It’s been clean. I ran into trouble only on no qualy Laguna with the good folks.
The games s stark contrast from random B B vs the top 1-2 lobbies on any given daily.
I’ve had very good luck lately with penalties. At B B there’s just so much dirt.
I like both. I’m not sure I wanna go up over 50k again really. Last time I ended up ranking down because I got annoyed.
Pick your poison.
My experience is that the system does work because the races are so different at different levels.

 

[sturk0167]

I’ve been qualifying lately also, mines also almost 50k again. So I’ve been warming up before racing, and not doing race after race.
It’s been clean. I ran into trouble only on no qualy Laguna with the good folks.
The games s stark contrast from random B B vs the top 1-2 lobbies on any given daily.
I’ve had very good luck lately with penalties. At B B there’s just so much dirt.
I like both. I’m not sure I wanna go up over 50k again really. Last time I ended up ranking down because I got annoyed.
Pick your poison.
My experience is that the system does work because the races are so different at different levels.

Even though I've done at least a thousand laps at LeMans, I am still not sure where all of the track limits are.
Seems like they're not consistent.

 

[Groundfish]

Even though I've done at least a thousand laps at LeMans, I am still not sure where all of the track limits are.
Seems like they're not consistent.

I don’t understand the track limits there at all. They need to fix that. They REALLY need to fix the old car that is in grass renters track at 90 degrees barely touches you goes onto grass on opposite side of track boom you get 4 seconds.
It’s kind of funny though how my perspective changes going from a B B bloodbath to A plus S race.
Once my DR gets above 40k or so something happens in my brain and I start getting more serious and competitive.
I have to remind myself how inconsequential DR truly is and also I have an account over 50k if I want to use it on FIA only. Really to me at some point if you are anything like me and obtain more DR and start to care about DR then doing dailies isn’t sensible. I like dailies though. Thing is at higher than mid A you need to stay up towards podium every race and spend time qualifying to ensure you are up front.
That’s why I may just down rank some.

Edit judging from videos I’ve seen lately the car behind needs to respect the car in fronts line and braking. No qual especially if you are A rank against say B is very very risky to SR.
I kind of like that though.

 

[BaareCZ]

I did a couple of races A yesterday and a CRB at Le Mans in the Yaris (which is basically a destruction derby) will get you a whopping +1 SR. Yet one SR down might cost you anywhere from -5 to -12 SR. In my case it was -9 SR. So if someone loses it right next to you and touches you while going off, 9 hard-earned clean races are gone. That is brilliant. I have a feeling that this race might not be the best to do if you want to repair your SR. PD will never cease to amaze me with their incompetence.

 

[OJBrit]

I did a couple of races A yesterday and a CRB at Le Mans in the Yaris (which is basically a destruction derby) will get you a whopping +1 SR. Yet one SR down might cost you anywhere from -5 to -12 SR. In my case it was -9 SR. So if someone loses it right next to you and touches you while going off, 9 hard-earned clean races are gone. That is brilliant. I have a feeling that this race might not be the best to do if you want to repair your SR. PD will never cease to amaze me with their incompetence.

Yup. I kept it clean apart from a couple of door rubs which was more the fact another driver swiped me. The fact I kept it clean meant I won the thing. Checked my stats later and saw I lost 18 SR. I mean I didn't do anything!

 

[Groundfish]

That is brilliant

Maybe the reasoning from PD was to try to prevent the hit and run since the race is only one lap.
People who run the race and hit and run wouldn’t last long at 99.
I bet that was their idea. Jmo a better car for this track would be the black Nova at n400 or 500 with SS tire.
I think too the Supra races were so arcade, the Yaris is a new Toyota in game and they probably just don’t want it to be arcade.
Jmo

 

[sturk0167]

Oh man, I really screwed this guy over. I'm glad the game didn't let me get away with it.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Yeah another great game, someone shoves me off and I get 4 secs and then some idiot stops in the middle of the chicane, it's not even a braking zone you should be accelerating, and yes I get another 3 secs. Game totally ruined, more points lost and I'm trying so hard to get to C/S for FIA, by the looks of things I'll be D/E

 

[Jagman XK8]

I did a couple of races A yesterday and a CRB at Le Mans in the Yaris (which is basically a destruction derby) will get you a whopping +1 SR. Yet one SR down might cost you anywhere from -5 to -12 SR. In my case it was -9 SR. So if someone loses it right next to you and touches you while going off, 9 hard-earned clean races are gone. That is brilliant. I have a feeling that this race might not be the best to do if you want to repair your SR. PD will never cease to amaze me with their incompetence.

Yes, a crashfest indeed. I started the week B/S and now reset to D/E. Early part of the week was ok with a couple of victories and good placings, but then a couple of races surrounded by idiots who try to take the Yaris flat out all the way round just ruined all my good work. I've never seen to many red dots at the end of each race. As said before, there is no point in taking DR seriously.

 

[JudegeBerry]

My point of view after having a couple of weeks of playing iRacing and comparing against GT Sport - consequences are needed for accidents on GTSport.

Please do not take this as me trying to be overly critical of GTSport as it has been my favourite PS series of games for years.

On iRacing you have to use real names so no alt accounts and no hiding behind anonymity.

IRacing uses shared fault and has damage. If you have an accident your race is basically done because of the damage.

People will barge, punt and push in order to win in GTSport - because they can game the current (and indeed all of the ones I can remember) system to do.

Finally with iRacing if you tank your safety rating then you also lose access to some of the competitions - you start at Rookie with slower cars and can work up (via safety system) to the higher ranks by clean driving. Again this means there are consequences for accidents.

 

[Norrin Radd]

On iRacing you have to use real names so no alt accounts and no hiding behind anonymity.

How well is this done? Loads of sites claim you need to be real, but you can usually get round the security and if it's possible it's basically pointless. And anyway I don't think it's important.

The rest sounds good though and something really needs to be done, but I can't see it ever happening. Just like GT4 was supposed to have proper damage and what 15 + years later PD has never done a proper damage system.

 

[barak181]

I'm genuinely curious, how do you code a penalty system that doesn't see this as a problem and still keep your job?

 

[JudegeBerry]

How well is this done? Loads of sites claim you need to be real, but you can usually get round the security and if it's possible it's basically pointless. And anyway I don't think it's important.

The rest sounds good though and something really needs to be done, but I can't see it ever happening. Just like GT4 was supposed to have proper damage and what 15 + years later PD has never done a proper damage system.

You buy the game directly rather than via a store. They use the name from the card that payed for it as your user name. I believe you can opt out if you have good reason so there is bound to be a way around it. Because the game content (tracks+cars) are owned by that ID you will not have the easy option of just creating a new ID if you get a reputation for being a rammer/cheat. Plus they have a protest system so you *could* be banned/suspended.

From what I have seen so far at the low levels the racing is a lot cleaner.

 

[Daz555]

How well is this done? Loads of sites claim you need to be real, but you can usually get round the security and if it's possible it's basically pointless. And anyway I don't think it's important.

The rest sounds good though and something really needs to be done, but I can't see it ever happening. Just like GT4 was supposed to have proper damage and what 15 + years later PD has never done a proper damage system.

Well it's a subscription model so regardless of whether you are using a fake name you still get suspended or banned which means you are wasting money - and with iRacing potentially a LOT of money. Imagine getting a perm-ban after sinking $500+ into it!

iRacing still has plenty of bad drivers but I'd say fewer deliberate rammers than GTS. iRacing is on average much harder than GT Sport to master so you also get a lot more genuine mistakes that can ruin your race - both your own and others.

 

[JudegeBerry]

Well it's a subscription model so regardless of whether you are using a fake name you still get suspended or banned which means you are wasting money - and with iRacing potentially a LOT of money. Imagine getting a perm-ban after sinking $500+ into it!

iRacing still has plenty of bad drivers but I'd say fewer deliberate rammers than GTS. iRacing is on average much harder than GT Sport to master so you also get a lot more genuine mistakes that can ruin your race - both your own and others.

Having tried the short oval yesterday I made quite a few of my own mistakes..

You are right it would be bad to get banned or suspended from iRacing given how much cash you may have sunk into it. But ... that's kind of the point - it feels like accidents can have consequences which IMHO is completely lacking from GTS.

 

[Groundfish]

feels like accidents can have consequences which IMHO is completely lacking from GTS

If you lose the sr and dr you don’t get to race good people AND you might take a long time building back to where you get a chance to race good folks.
Iracing let’s see, buy pc, figure all that out, subscribe, then have to purchase cars and tracks, then have to deal with car setup, then don’t have races anytime you want? Not even worth it when if you’re good GTS provides great competition.
Also I find too simmy to be kinda boring. Stay under the limit, most of the time just a procession, slight mistakes can wipe you out...
Sure unforgiving might be more of a realistic sim but having at the limit over the curb or sideways forgiveness makes for more fun. Most people don’t want more headaches more boredom, carefully avoiding mistakes and playing follow the leader. I think most want fun playing “I’m Alain Prost” and no bs pc nuisance software glitches or wasting time tweaking car setups or money buying tracks-no. I think they wanna RACE, their way. I KNOW I do.
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/72KL/dicks-sporting-goods-swing-your-swing

 

[Granadier]

If you think a high DR and maxed SR will result in good racing in the dailies I have bad news.

Every time I return to them it seems that PD has made the penalty system even worse.

 

[Groundfish]

If you think a high DR and maxed SR will result in good racing in the dailies I have bad news

What’s the bad news?
I ran B race which is 4 laps gr4 Seaside on racing hards. Two nights in a row it’s been great racing. Although after 7 races tonight I’m down to 96 on sr.
You just gotta get first up to pretty high dr. Then you have to know how to race. You have to know how to defend and when to attack and when to stay behind.
Bottom line is anyone who plays GTS online can easily stay high on sr by utilizing good racecraft.
Sometimes you might not want to go defensive early before braking areas but sometimes you have to. Most players in this game, if they get close will try an inside move. How close varies but it’s usually not close enough. You gotta have the racecraft and control the track as much as you can fairly.
I can tell you I have a comfort zone distance to an unknown guy following coming into a braking area.
If they are closer than the comfort distance on the straight, I choose the inside into braking. The big reason is there’s not much they can do and then even if they hit you you won’t get penalized or sr down 99 percent of time.
I’ve been racing dailies a ton this last month.
I think the system has cleaned the game up an awful lot in the rooms I race daily.
Blaming the game is a total cop out.
I’m not saying it’s perfect. I’m not saying you don’t see videos sometimes that make you wonder what the programmers were thinking.
I’m just saying that whatever is happening with the system, it’s brought me back to dailies when prior to this it was so lenient I just quit. It was stupid you couldn’t race that. Or, rather I couldn’t.
You can tell immediately if your sr drops below 90. There’s less racecraft less fast people, and more indecisive unaware fast people. The quality takes a nose dive in the 80 range of sr. Below that is unplayable nonsense.
Sure, online can be tough, but if you have good racecraft you can keep high sr no matter your speed.
No. It’s not perfect, but it’s pretty awesome imo.
The one thing you always hear in the threads is “Man I got reset because all these dirty drivers kept hitting me”
Bull.
Improve racecraft. Take responsibility. Avoid erratic drivers. Defend yourself proper, and pens will be few.
I have to admit having good racecraft isn’t that hard if it’s based on Ross Bentley teachings from his books. After a while it sinks in, a lot of his little tidbits. I’m not perfect but I’m light years ahead of where I ever would have gotten without Ross.

 

[stpatty]

I've just done a Dragon Trail race that had several A+ drivers in it, including JRCalderon963 | Stats | Gran Turismo Sport | kudosprime.com who is a top split driver. I beat him, mainly because he was clearly just going round trying to repair his SR. It was absolutely brutal to watch.

I lost 6 SR because I touched someone under braking in the top hairpin so lightly it didn't actually make a sound. The system's ****ed.

 

[Granadier]

What’s the bad news?

The bad news is that you're going to get horrible drivers and crap races all the way into A+ lobbies. And the penalty system just gets worse and worse the higher you go.

--- For example:

Yesterday I entered an A+/A lobby for Race B. A driver lost control through the esses and decided to re-enter the track at full throttle into the side of a pack of cars just ahead of me. Which resulted in me rear ending said driver as I couldn't avoid them. The driver that created the pileup received no penalty while I collected 3.0s along with finishing the race at -19 SR. No fault of my own. So I enter a Race C without qualy to try and repair. Desperately avoiding the D rated driver chaos and nearly made it through clean until a driver lightly taps my rear bumper on lap 8 which gave me a 1.0s penalty. The system was kind enough to slap me with another -11 SR for that. Again, no fault of my own.

I spent the next 3 hours and sacrificed 2000 DR to get back to 99 SR. With the current penalty system you are basically volunteering to be kicked in the nuts repeatedly by entering online races. Trying to defend the way things are right now, or even worse, blaming good drivers for the penalties they unjustly receive, is gaslighting. Cut it out.

 

[barak181]

I've just done a Dragon Trail race that had several A+ drivers in it, including JRCalderon963 | Stats | Gran Turismo Sport | kudosprime.com who is a top split driver. I beat him, mainly because he was clearly just going round trying to repair his SR. It was absolutely brutal to watch.

I lost 6 SR because I touched someone under braking in the top hairpin so lightly it didn't actually make a sound. The system's ****ed.

My alt lost 44SR over the course of something like 4-5 races. I think the combo is fun, so I'm glad I have the alt-account to suffer the carnage. I've pretty much given up saving replays to upload stupid SR downs, there are so many of them that don't make sense unless they're going to implement a full-blown shared fault system.

 

[Groundfish]

The bad news is that you're going to get horrible drivers and crap races all the way into A+ lobbies. And the penalty system just gets worse and worse the higher you go.

Speak for yourself.

Yesterday I entered an A+/A lobby for Race B. A driver lost control through the esses and decided to re-enter the track at full throttle into the side of a pack of cars ahead of me. Which resulted in me rear ending said driver as I couldn't avoid them. The driver that created the pileup received no penalty while I collected 3.0s along with finishing the race at -19 SR. No fault of my own. So I enter a Race C without qualy to try and repair. Desperately avoiding the D rated driver chaos and nearly made it through clean until a driver lightly taps my rear bumper on lap 8 which gave me a 1.0s penalty. The system was kind enough to slap me with another -11 SR for that. Again, no fault of my own.

I took a two second and a four second in quick succession last night from 99 so six total and it was totally my fault but only dropped to 88 sr. Next race plus 6 back to over 90.
I’ve done 17 races in those lobbies these last two nights and I’m sitting 96 without any recovery drives. You gotta know how to race that track is all...
You don’t lose 19 sr in one race by one situation.
You gotta race smarter.

I spent the next 3 hours and sacrificed 2000 DR to get back to 99 SR. With the current penalty system you are basically volunteering to be kicked in the nuts repeatedly by entering online races.

I’ve been doing that over the last month whenever I can. Maybe I dunno 40-50 races and it’s been working well.
Don’t hit others, understand fair defense.
Don’t blame the game. Just don’t place yourself in bad situations race smarter. Honestly that’s what it is imo. The system is strict, so race fair.
That’s just my experience with a ton of racing in over the last month.
It’s been great here. If I’m really honest I think people just don’t accept the idea that they have responsibility too, that it’s not JUST the pen system. Nothing personal you understand
My experience has been fantastic clean racing mostly in the top split.

 

[Granadier]

How to Recognize Gaslighting and Get Help