PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[CBH]

There is no need for you to keep reminding us of your views on ghosting, you have already made it abundantly clear that either A- you do not like competition or B- you are just not very good at wheel to wheel racing as it would be entirely eliminated with ghosting. I belong to a group that has monthly races with damage on heavy and all penalties on strong and our races are fantastic, there is no ramming and very, very little contact at all while racing hard for 90 minutes. It can easily be done with people that have the same mindset. The real problems arise when you have people who think they accomplish something by winning at all costs by wall riding, short cutting, or even ramming cars off the track because they cant pass them. When I race in GTS I could care less if I win or finish last because unlike some I realize it means absolutely nothing, it's just a game, entertainment for lack of a better word. For me the fun is having a good clean battle with someone for most the race whether it's for 1st and 2nd or 15th and 16th it makes little difference. Until we get human stewards or some incredible AI stewards it makes little difference how many wins anyone has or what stats they achieved because there is no way to seperate legit from tainted wins.

Myself and many players want fair racing right and to do this is to have my View on fair racing, and you know what that is which will make more sense to have it.
I would love to have good close racing online but the way the penalty system is now, it is not fair racing is it fastone371 ?. The penalty system can not work out who to blame when contact comes between 2 players, well don't have that system in place and have something that is Fair, and my view on this will make it fair racing.
Damage will not work in Sport Mode races because it will be absolutely mayhem out on the track. Having damage in Sport Mode you are going to have a online game call Gran Turismo demolition derby races.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Why would removing punts and side swipes ruin it for you? Ghosting should only work when it's obvious. It already knows when, but you have to be DR.D or SR.E or have a lot of lag to get ghosted to keep others from harm. However the one getting ghosted should not get a free pass as what happens now.
*Snip*

It's not that removing punts and side swipes would ruin it for me, it's the suggested way to avoid these situations that I'm not happy with.

I'll try not to turn this into an essay, but let me just say this.
If I am trying to decide between joining two different lobbies, and then I see that one of them has ghosting set to strong, the decision is quickly made.
I'm not sure who would want to race with strong ghosting, nor what sort of racing they would be doing, but it's not for me.

Or let me put it another way.
Almost every day, people are on this website comparing the game to real life.
Be it the car model and it's details/accessories, the sound, the performance, the handling under certain circumstances, the category, the tracks, the physics, the aerodynamics, the way qualy is or isn't done, fuel and tyre wear, etc., etc, etc.
Obviously I could go on.

Now if I spent the rest of my life watching videos and/or attending real life race meets, be it 8 year olds on go-karts or an F1 race, and everything in between, this is what I would see.
Contact between cars, peoples races being ruined by contact between cars, people out braking themselves and running off track, people out braking themselves and dive bombing up the inside, people aiming for the apex and cutting the nose off cars on their inside, people running too fast around corners and under-steering off track, people trying to overtake on the inside around a corner and pushing people off track.
All the things we see in GT Sport, and again, obviously I could continue with this list.

The one thing I would never, ever see is a car ghosting.

So while it might be a reasonable solution for some people, it's just not for me.

 

[Dmac72]

This weekend we had bt the Monaco GP and the Indy 500.
Both featured overtaking, defensive driving, contact and damage.
Having watched both races at no time did I see one car pass straight through another like it didn’t exist.
So I’m a no when it comes to ghosting.

 

[Dorofint]

For sake of commenting I'll claim to be good for a moment... (ok, so, I can race clean, while racing in a sporting and competitive manner, but I'm never going to top the leader boards).
I've not raced in over a year.
PD got it right once before, but the community went bananas because they could no longer smash and bash, and PD caved to them.
as such;
It is with regret that I feel all those who want a clean/fair racing environment admit this is not the platform to provide it, and move on.
In short, PD wants $$$/participants, not to provide a real racing simulator.
Hope to see some of you on the other side... I know a few in this thread are contemplating the move as well.

Oh, so, why am I still posting here?
Hope.

That's exactly what many of my friends did. It does not make any sense to spoil your mood with overly motivated or dirty drivers after a long day at work. Initially, the enthusiasm for GT Sport was great. But the more often they were rammed off the track or victims of dirty tricks, the more sobering was the mood. We meet every now and then and play the good old GTR 2 in the local network. Together with friends, we get the clean gaming experience that we want to enjoy. It would be nice to experience such a thing in GT Sport without the hassle of scheduling appointments and transoprting the PCs, but that simply does not seem possible. We all just want a game in which it is possible to enjoy one or two clean races in the evening without a great deal of effort. I do not know how big this target group is, but with their adjustments in favor of the "smash and bash" group PD has lost most of these players.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

This weekend we had bt the Monaco GP and the Indy 500.
Both featured overtaking, defensive driving, contact and damage.
Having watched both races at no time did I see one car pass straight through another like it didn’t exist.
So I’m a no when it comes to ghosting.

Another detail that's remarkable :
Only two time penalties in F1 in a 20 driver grid in a race lasting 100 minutes in Monaco 💡 ...

 

[Dmac72]

Another detail that's remarkable :
Only two time penalties in F1 in a 20 driver grid in a race lasting 100 minutes in Monaco 💡 ...

Touhg to exceed track limits with barriers.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Touhg to exceed track limits with barriers.

Being sarcastic ? Regarding GT Sport's DEOPs ( Deliberately Enforced Offtrack Penalties ) ? If yes then lol !

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's not that removing punts and side swipes would ruin it for me, it's the suggested way to avoid these situations that I'm not happy with.

I'll try not to turn this into an essay, but let me just say this.
If I am trying to decide between joining two different lobbies, and then I see that one of them has ghosting set to strong, the decision is quickly made.
I'm not sure who would want to race with strong ghosting, nor what sort of racing they would be doing, but it's not for me.

Or let me put it another way.
Almost every day, people are on this website comparing the game to real life.
Be it the car model and it's details/accessories, the sound, the performance, the handling under certain circumstances, the category, the tracks, the physics, the aerodynamics, the way qualy is or isn't done, fuel and tyre wear, etc., etc, etc.
Obviously I could go on.

Now if I spent the rest of my life watching videos and/or attending real life race meets, be it 8 year olds on go-karts or an F1 race, and everything in between, this is what I would see.
Contact between cars, peoples races being ruined by contact between cars, people out braking themselves and running off track, people out braking themselves and dive bombing up the inside, people aiming for the apex and cutting the nose off cars on their inside, people running too fast around corners and under-steering off track, people trying to overtake on the inside around a corner and pushing people off track.
All the things we see in GT Sport, and again, obviously I could continue with this list.

The one thing I would never, ever see is a car ghosting.

So while it might be a reasonable solution for some people, it's just not for me.

Yet you don't see people purposely use their car as a weapon in real life and intentionally crash into others at 200 mph. Some ghosting is necessary to prevent races from coming to a standstill altogether. I'm sure some people would love to see this and it is a realistic possibility

Better to ghost and or reset the obvious trouble makers and let the rest be.

Does this look realistic

Reset the idiots that forget to brake. Without ghosting it would have been an even bigger mess. Problem is the consequences are too low atm. These cars need to be reset to before the corner to send a clear message that ghosting is not their to save/help them, only to prevent worse disasters.

 

[gtpierre]

Reset the idiots that forget to brake. Without ghosting it would have been an even bigger mess. Problem is the consequences are too low atm. These cars need to be reset to before the corner to send a clear message that ghosting is not their to save/help them, only to prevent worse disasters.

They should just give huge penalties (10-20s) for rear bumps in braking zones. It happens IRL that people brake too late (or lock the wheels), and it's ok because in most occasion they put themselves off track to avoid collisions.
What is not ok is that in GT sport, people don't drive their car out of the track (like explained in the racing etiquette video), they purposely run into the car in front because taking the risk to get 3s penalty is better than losing 10s by going off track.

If you get 20s penalty for rear bumping a car when missing a braking point, people will either quit the race, or change their behaviour and go in the grass when they miss the braking point (and be more careful in general).

And SR needs to be harder to get and harder to lose. It's not normal to lose SR because lag creates a micro contact, and it's not normal to lose SR when someone rear bump you.

It's also not normal that someone that did two huge punts gets away with a SR gain in race C.

 

[Dmac72]

Yet you don't see people purposely use their car as a weapon in real life and intentionally crash into others at 200 mph. Some ghosting is necessary to prevent races from coming to a standstill altogether. I'm sure some people would love to see this and it is a realistic possibility

Better to ghost and or reset the obvious trouble makers and let the rest be.

Does this look realistic

Reset the idiots that forget to brake. Without ghosting it would have been an even bigger mess. Problem is the consequences are too low atm. These cars need to be reset to before the corner to send a clear message that ghosting is not their to save/help them, only to prevent worse disasters.

The problem with resetting cars would be them suddenly appearing in front of other cars. Even if they were ghosted they would still distract others further back.

Ok. So not many in favour of the current system.
How about people put in a short, clear summary of what they would like? Something short and concise that would be possible to code.
Not just a series of what is wrong posts, but a series of what could work.

 

[fastone371]

Myself and many players want fair racing right and to do this is to have my View on fair racing, and you know what that is which will make more sense to have it.
I would love to have good close racing online but the way the penalty system is now, it is not fair racing is it fastone371 ?. The penalty system can not work out who to blame when contact comes between 2 players, well don't have that system in place and have something that is Fair, and my view on this will make it fair racing.
Damage will not work in Sport Mode races because it will be absolutely mayhem out on the track. Having damage in Sport Mode you are going to have a online game call Gran Turismo demolition derby races.

But you keep talking about racing, the second you have full ghosting it ceases to be racing. In fact there is already a group that races exactly how you want. They all use the same car then they run single car time trials to see who is the fastest, that is exactly the same as the system that you want.

The problem with resetting cars would be them suddenly appearing in front of other cars. Even if they were ghosted they would still distract others further back.

It's not a problem if you reset a car behind the rest of the field. The penalty needs to be big enough that it actually deters a person from driving in such a way and teaches them to learn to drive properly, people would then actually start to learn their braking points.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The problem with resetting cars would be them suddenly appearing in front of other cars. Even if they were ghosted they would still distract others further back.

That already happens now, notice the car resetting in the middle of the chicane for a split second. I've even had an SR Down for such a reset right on top of me (ghosting kicks in 1 frame after the reset doh) Resetting needs to be more sensible as well, not in the middle of a chicane, not in the middle of the road. On the edge at the opposite side of the racing line before the braking zone.

One of the worst reset points is on Big Willow. Right in the middle of the final high speed turn. Ultimate distraction. It might even be better to reset them to after the turn but keep the car waiting for a couple seconds to not make it advantageous. Actually on Monza it used to be that you got reset to after T1 but since the game lets you go immediately it got abused. (Even the AI abused it )

 

[breeminator]

But you keep talking about racing, the second you have full ghosting it ceases to be racing. In fact there is already a group that races exactly how you want. They all use the same car then they run single car time trials to see who is the fastest, that is exactly the same as the system that you want.

No, that is nothing like a ghosted race. TTing is about being good at pulling off a single fast lap with no tyre wear or fuel use considerations. A ghosted race is won by someone who can drive consistently lap after lap, smoothly so they're not wearing their tyres out, and who can adjust their driving to match what tyre wear does occur. The winner is able to cope with pressure from other drivers, driving more within themselves when not under pressure, or raising their game when needed while still not making mistakes. You clearly see people make mistakes in ghost racing when put under pressure by someone close behind.

 

[CBH]

This weekend we had bt the Monaco GP and the Indy 500.
Both featured overtaking, defensive driving, contact and damage.
Having watched both races at no time did I see one car pass straight through another like it didn’t exist.
So I’m a no when it comes to ghosting.

What you have said does not make any sense at all, because that is Real life racing and you can not have Real life racing in a computer game can you. So Ghosting is the only way to go if you want fair Racing. If you don't have Ghosting in a game you are never in a million years, going to have fair Racing.

 

[Dmac72]

it makes perfect sense to me and to many others.
No, you can’t have real life racing in a video game but you can’t have racing without overtaking, defending etc.
That you want ghosting is fine. I understand that but, in my opinion, the cost of losing all those other elements would far outweigh an benefit of always ghosting.

 

[gtpierre]

If you have Ghosting in a game you are never in a million years, going to have any actual Racing.

FIFY

 

[fastone371]

No, that is nothing like a ghosted race. TTing is about being good at pulling off a single fast lap with no tyre wear or fuel use considerations. A ghosted race is won by someone who can drive consistently lap after lap, smoothly so they're not wearing their tyres out, and who can adjust their driving to match what tyre wear does occur. The winner is able to cope with pressure from other drivers, driving more within themselves when not under pressure, or raising their game when needed while still not making mistakes. You clearly see people make mistakes in ghost racing when put under pressure by someone close behind.

No, ghosting is exactly like TTing. With ghosting I wouldn't have to think about where I am faster and I can pass the car in front, I just drive straight thru them. I dont have to watch or protect my line into a corner because my opponent will just drive straight thru me. With ghosting there is no trying to out brake an opponent, no changing lines thru a corner for a better exit, no giving way going into a chicane, no checking up when an opponent gets lose in front of me. These are all things that happen in racing and must be dealt with, things you wouldn't see with ghosting. If ghosting were any kind of racing at all racing would end when qualifying is over, there would be no race period. Racing is about competition with other cars and drivers on the track, being the smarter driver and avoiding trouble or potential trouble, attacking when the the time is right, not at every corner. With ghosting there is no out thinking the other driver, even 10 year old kids can figure out where they can pass and where they shouldn't try, my kids did that in karts for years. Ghosting is great for people who have no tradecraft, that's my guess why certain people want ghosting but that is no way to race. Anyone who gets so worked up over video game racing that they want to eliminate the racing part needs to remember that this is just a video game, if you get so upset that "your race was ruined" by someone cheating they need to remember that there are no awards or prizes except in your own head over winning a video game race.

 

[VulcanSpirit]

Ok. So not many in favour of the current system.
How about people put in a short, clear summary of what they would like? Something short and concise that would be possible to code.
Not just a series of what is wrong posts, but a series of what could work.

Here is a list of some of the things I would like to see in an 'optimised' system:

• Track Limits - Multiple warnings given for exceeding track limits - i.e. going beyond the kerbs/white lines - and gaining an advantage. Two warnings results in an SR decrease; three results in another SR decrease and a time penalty. The same process repeats itself with any infractions afterwards. AI calculations make allowances for players running wide, but not gaining an advantage.
• Corner Cutting - Instant warning if a player cuts a corner and gains an advantage. Repeated corner cutting results in an SR decrease and a time penalty for each subsequent infraction. AI calculations allow for players to avoid penalties if they accidentally run wide through chicanes/S-bends, are pushed off the circuit or are trying to avoid an incident in front of them. If a player deliberately skips any part of the course and gains a significant advantage - i.e. the final chicane at Catalunya - severe SR decreases and time penalties are awarded for every infraction. Repeated infractions of the latter will result in instant disqualification.
• Contact - Should light contact happen between two or more cars, warnings are given to all cars involved. If a car deliberately pushes/rams/brake-checks another, SR decreases and time penalties are added depending on the severity of the collision. AI calculations ensure that cars which did not cause the collision are not penalised. If a player continues to intentionally collide with other cars after picking up a certain number of penalties, instant disqualification will occur.
• Wall Collisions - No penalties awarded if the car does not gain a time advantage upon hitting walls.
  
• Yellow/Blue Flags - Keep as is.

Plus, a new Driving Line Assist feature inspired by Forza 7's system:

• Track Limit Lines - upon selected, adds two lines on either side of the circuit to illustrate track boundaries. Depending on whether the player is maintaining these boundaries, the lines automatically change colour as they drive closer to and over them:

• Normal (within limits) - blue
• Two wheels over - yellow/orange
• All wheels over - red

I feel that a feature like this would be especially useful for new players, as well as ease some of the frustrations that have been expressed regarding track limits in the game.

 

[fastone371]

Here is a list of some of the things I would like to see in an 'optimised' system:

• Track Limits - Multiple warnings given for exceeding track limits - i.e. going beyond the kerbs/white lines - and gaining an advantage. Two warnings results in an SR decrease; three results in another SR decrease and a time penalty. The same process repeats itself with any infractions afterwards. AI calculations make allowances for players running wide, but not gaining an advantage.
• Corner Cutting - Instant warning if a player cuts a corner and gains an advantage. Repeated corner cutting results in an SR decrease and a time penalty for each subsequent infraction. AI calculations allow for players to avoid penalties if they accidentally run wide through chicanes/S-bends, are pushed off the circuit or are trying to avoid an incident in front of them. If a player deliberately skips any part of the course and gains a significant advantage - i.e. the final chicane at Catalunya - severe SR decreases and time penalties are awarded for every infraction. Repeated infractions of the latter will result in instant disqualification.
• Contact - Should light contact happen between two or more cars, warnings are given to all cars involved. If a car deliberately pushes/rams/brake-checks another, SR decreases and time penalties are added depending on the severity of the collision. AI calculations ensure that cars which did not cause the collision are not penalised. If a player continues to intentionally collide with other cars after picking up a certain number of penalties, instant disqualification will occur.
• Wall Collisions - No penalties awarded if the car does not gain a time advantage upon hitting walls.
  
• Yellow/Blue Flags - Keep as is.

Plus, a new Driving Line Assist feature inspired by Forza 7's system:

• Track Limit Lines - upon selected, adds two lines on either side of the circuit to illustrate track boundaries. Depending on whether the player is maintaining these boundaries, the lines automatically change colour as they drive closer to and over them:

• Normal (within limits) - blue
• Two wheels over - yellow/orange
• All wheels over - red

I feel that a feature like this would be especially useful for new players, as well as ease some of the frustrations that have been expressed regarding track limits in the game.

If everyone had stats like yours we wouldn't even have this discussion.👍👍

 

[VulcanSpirit]

If everyone had stats like yours we wouldn't even have this discussion.👍👍

Thank you. While I am not a perfect racer, I always try to race as cleanly as I can, and over time have learned not to take unnecessary risks for the sake of improving my track position. It also helps that I have taken regular breaks from Sport Mode from time to time, and am currently committed to do only the FIA races when I feel like it.

 

[gtpierre]

Here is a list of some of the things I would like to see in an 'optimised' system:

• Track Limits - Multiple warnings given for exceeding track limits - i.e. going beyond the kerbs/white lines - and gaining an advantage. Two warnings results in an SR decrease; three results in another SR decrease and a time penalty. The same process repeats itself with any infractions afterwards. AI calculations make allowances for players running wide, but not gaining an advantage.
• Corner Cutting - Instant warning if a player cuts a corner and gains an advantage. Repeated corner cutting results in an SR decrease and a time penalty for each subsequent infraction. AI calculations allow for players to avoid penalties if they accidentally run wide through chicanes/S-bends, are pushed off the circuit or are trying to avoid an incident in front of them. If a player deliberately skips any part of the course and gains a significant advantage - i.e. the final chicane at Catalunya - severe SR decreases and time penalties are awarded for every infraction. Repeated infractions of the latter will result in instant disqualification.
• Contact - Should light contact happen between two or more cars, warnings are given to all cars involved. If a car deliberately pushes/rams/brake-checks another, SR decreases and time penalties are added depending on the severity of the collision. AI calculations ensure that cars which did not cause the collision are not penalised. If a player continues to intentionally collide with other cars after picking up a certain number of penalties, instant disqualification will occur.
• Wall Collisions - No penalties awarded if the car does not gain a time advantage upon hitting walls.
  
• Yellow/Blue Flags - Keep as is.

Plus, a new Driving Line Assist feature inspired by Forza 7's system:

• Track Limit Lines - upon selected, adds two lines on either side of the circuit to illustrate track boundaries. Depending on whether the player is maintaining these boundaries, the lines automatically change colour as they drive closer to and over them:

• Normal (within limits) - blue
• Two wheels over - yellow/orange
• All wheels over - red

I feel that a feature like this would be especially useful for new players, as well as ease some of the frustrations that have been expressed regarding track limits in the game.

Lots of good ideas here. But if you are gonna wait for several violations of track limits before to give a penalty (as IRL), it better be a massive penalty (again, as IRL).

I would also be careful with brakecheck penalty (I'm not sure how often people brake check, because I don't see any point doing it ?). I often brake/coast early when I'm following people that I suspect will crash (L1 T1 of any race), and I would want to be sure that the brakecheck penalty actually works well, and not "give SR- to anyone that gets bumped from behind" like it's currently the case.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Here is a list of some of the things I would like to see in an 'optimised' system:

• Track Limits - Multiple warnings given for exceeding track limits - i.e. going beyond the kerbs/white lines - and gaining an advantage. Two warnings results in an SR decrease; three results in another SR decrease and a time penalty. The same process repeats itself with any infractions afterwards. AI calculations make allowances for players running wide, but not gaining an advantage.
• Corner Cutting - Instant warning if a player cuts a corner and gains an advantage. Repeated corner cutting results in an SR decrease and a time penalty for each subsequent infraction. AI calculations allow for players to avoid penalties if they accidentally run wide through chicanes/S-bends, are pushed off the circuit or are trying to avoid an incident in front of them. If a player deliberately skips any part of the course and gains a significant advantage - i.e. the final chicane at Catalunya - severe SR decreases and time penalties are awarded for every infraction. Repeated infractions of the latter will result in instant disqualification.
• Contact - Should light contact happen between two or more cars, warnings are given to all cars involved. If a car deliberately pushes/rams/brake-checks another, SR decreases and time penalties are added depending on the severity of the collision. AI calculations ensure that cars which did not cause the collision are not penalised. If a player continues to intentionally collide with other cars after picking up a certain number of penalties, instant disqualification will occur.
• Wall Collisions - No penalties awarded if the car does not gain a time advantage upon hitting walls.
  
• Yellow/Blue Flags - Keep as is.

Plus, a new Driving Line Assist feature inspired by Forza 7's system:

• Track Limit Lines - upon selected, adds two lines on either side of the circuit to illustrate track boundaries. Depending on whether the player is maintaining these boundaries, the lines automatically change colour as they drive closer to and over them:

• Normal (within limits) - blue
• Two wheels over - yellow/orange
• All wheels over - red

I feel that a feature like this would be especially useful for new players, as well as ease some of the frustrations that have been expressed regarding track limits in the game.

Good list but I would also award penalties and SR deduction for scraping walls. Scrubbing speed by using the wall is used on certain tracks, plus on Mount Panorama people that hit the walls are a danger to the cars behind. It should be the same as penalties/SR deductions for exceeding track limits.

This is the part that's really hard to implement
If a car deliberately pushes/rams/brake-checks another
PD has tried it by looking at where contact occurs between cars, or before that where on the track and penalizing both cars (a punt was 10 sec for the car behind and still 1 sec for the car getting hit on one end of the scale) and now it simply looks at who leaves the road after contact.

My suggestion is for the game to calculate a speed range for every part of the track and every car allowed that you should be within. Be too slow (brake check or careless track re-entry) then the fault is on you. Be too fast (brake too late) same. If both cars are within the speed range, fault is on the car behind.

For ramming and contact: The car that is most aligned with the direction of travel (racing line) should be assumed in the right when leaving more than a car width for any traffic next to them. The car with the most loss of grip (while not just having been hit) should be assumed to be out of control. We're not doing drift races here.

When contact occurs, flag both cars as 'trouble' for the next x seconds. If any secondary collision is imminent, reset these cars instead of allowing the incident to escalate. Same for cars that brake too late / exceed the possible speed limit to still make the corner in a safe way. Flag that car as 'trouble' let them fly off the road by themselves unless a collision is imminent. In that case reset instead of letting the punt happen. You can do the same to cars spinning out, or re-entering the track.

To keep it 'fair' and prevent abuse, give SR Down to cars not avoiding trouble makers. Otherwise it will be abused, see a car in trouble aim for them to get them out of the way. Currently people gamble on those cars ghosting in time and don't do anything to avoid often causing more trouble. And if you slow down to avoid you're likely to get rammed from behind. Therefore when there is a flagged 'trouble' car, yellow flag, and instead of brake check penalties, the situation reverses to putting the responsibility on traffic behind not to run into the accident or people trying to avoid the accident.

 

[PerformLAB1]

For the penalties themselves, I think making them 4 times what they currently are would be a start in the right dirrection.

As far as the ghosting, I am no expert at "coding" or "writing" video games, but would the game not know if you are going too fast for a certain section based on car, tires, and DR? If that is something the game would know, simply put ghosting on for people doing say 15MPH faster than what is expected to be ok to clear the corner.

For the chicane cutting, I think the "re-spawn" should be in the pit. THAT is what I consider a proper penalty.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Honestly guys, I can't understand why you imperturbably ( huh ! ) insist on solving problems by refining penalties, as if it was the only lever to move. It's a dead end imo - PD has gone that route since day one and they got nowhere, one step forward, one step back, rinse and repeat. AI won't do it here since you need human intelligence, understanding and feel to get penalties even remotely right.
All I want is race likeminded people. I've got enough experience to know how it feels - it's a relief. It's an environment where I can easily forgive the accidental punt, the little shortcut in front of me or any other incident that annoys me like hell when it's massive, deliberate, overambitious, careless etc. etc.
As for me, SR needs an overhaul first.
The way it is set up now doesn't correspond with what sportsmanship is ( it' s a mindset ) - to me a working SR is the key.

BTW is there enough willing manpower here to run a dedicated thread ? Wouldn't it be a waste when good ideas and suggestions disappeared in between all that rant ?

 

[breeminator]

To be clear, none of my posts in favour of ghosting are in favour of all racing being ghosted. I just think the option should be there for people who want it. As it would probably dilute player numbers too much to have ghosted versions of all daily races, what if A was always ghosted, B had light damage, and C had real damage?

IMO the AI to accurately (say, 99% success rate of matching a human decision) simulate human enforcement of racing rules is probably at least 10 years away.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Honestly guys, I can't understand why you imperturbably ( huh ! ) insist on solving problems by refining penalties, as if it was the only lever to move. It's a dead end imo - PD has gone that route since day one and they got nowhere, one step forward, one step back, rinse and repeat. AI won't do it here since you need human intelligence, understanding and feel to get penalties even remotely right.
All I want is race likeminded people. I've got enough experience to know how it feels - it's a relief. It's an environment where I can easily forgive the accidental punt, the little shortcut in front of me or any other incident that annoys me like hell when it's massive, deliberate, overambitious, careless etc. etc.
As for me, SR needs an overhaul first.
The way it is set up now doesn't correspond with what sportsmanship is ( it' s a mindset ) - to me a working SR is the key.

BTW is there enough willing manpower here to run a dedicated thread ? Wouldn't it be a waste when good ideas and suggestions disappeared in between all that rant ?

I put a suggestion to overhaul SR and how to on the playstation blog over a year ago in a thread asking for feedback on the penalty system. The post got removed I guess I revealed the inner workings too much (DR reset upwards bug was still going on)

In a nutshell SR needs to be based on contacts over time driven instead of the broken point system. Take the last 2 hours of time spend in race, count how many contacts you had in that time frame and base SR on that.

0 contacts in the last 120 minutes is 99 SR.
120 contacts or more (1 per minute) is 1 SR.
Count walls, out of track limit excursions, spin outs, rage quits as 'contacts' as well. Better call it incidents.

Start at 50 SR (60 incidents) which translates to a base rate of 1 incident for every 2 minutes racing.
If you complete an 8 minute race with 0 incidents you 'lose' 4 of your start incidents, have 56 left, SR goes up to 53
It will take a while to climb to 99 and most will never get there, which makes it actually mean something. 7 clean C races in a row will get you at 99. One incident per C race will get you at about 94. 2 per race, 87. Seems about right.
It will also take a lot longer to dramatically fall. If you have 10 incidents in one race you won't fall far, but it will be on your record for the next 2 hours.

It only takes an array of 120 bytes for each player with the nr of contacts in each minute, slide in the new minute at the top, remove one from the bottom. Count all the incidents in the array, divide by 120, multiply by 98 and substract that nr from 99. Easy, no intelligence needed.

Perhaps tweak the range and time etc based on how it turns out. Plus for the really obvious cases you can also count more incidents. Or count each car involved as an extra incident. For example if you plow into T1 and take out 4 cars in secondary collisions, 4 incidents against you.

 

[fastone371]

My solution would be the same as others have suggested, clean driving gets rewarded. If you win a race but had SR downs that win does not count, rather the win goes to the first car that had the clean race. Also reset cars that blow thru the braking zones before the corner and after the field has passed. That takes away all incentive for bad behavior. As long as bad behavior continues to be rewarded there is going to be bad behavior. This would put a premium on learning that car/track combo, not just turning the game on and immediately entering a race without putting a single lap in and learning on the fly while crashing into others.

 

[CBH]

it makes perfect sense to me and to many others.
No, you can’t have real life racing in a video game but you can’t have racing without overtaking, defending etc.
That you want ghosting is fine. I understand that but, in my opinion, the cost of losing all those other elements would far outweigh an benefit of always ghosting.

All I want and many other players want is fair racing in a game, but to have no Ghosting in a game with damage, it spells out disaster and there is no other solution than Ghosting.

 

[fastone371]

All I want and many other players want is fair racing in a game, but to have no Ghosting in a game with damage, it spells out disaster and there is no other solution than Ghosting.

Read previous replies, there are some good ideas none of which include ghosting. Once there is full ghosting it ceases being a race, the overwhelming consensus here is that people want to race, not hot lap.

 

[CBH]

Read previous replies, there are some good ideas none of which include ghosting. Once there is full ghosting it ceases being a race, the overwhelming consensus here is that people want to race, not hot lap.

I have read some previous replies with ideas without Ghosting and they will not work , because if a computer game can not detect wright from wrong, what hope have we got for those other ideas. Ghosting is not a hot lap, and Ghosting will make it a lot fair for all racing, with no Ghosting and bring in damage to the game spells absolutely mayhem out on track.